PDA

View Full Version : Southwest Finns



Viking
2010-12-15, 10:17
It's time for a thread about them in my opinion. What is their origin?

Back in the old school typology days, Karhunkynsi's biggest idol, Herman Lundborg, and his crew discovered that the Southwest Finns (Finns Proper) were quite dolicocephalic and had a strikingly tall height. The only logical conclusion for this was because they had to have absorbed a lot of Swedish blood throughout the years. PTG (and Grynda) has also used this argument occasionally because the Swedish Ostrobothnians cluster close to Proper Finns (and Southern Ostrobothnians) in DNA-studies.

Looking at Y-DNA haplogroups, this argument seems very vague. Haplogroup N1c1 is more common in Finland Proper (around 60 percent) than in for example Southern Ostrobothnia and Satakunta. (Source. (http://i47.tinypic.com/2pq9i4x.jpg)) But then again, these provinces were also admixed with Germanics because they had a rather tall average height at the time. :whoco:

guleet
2011-11-04, 22:04
what is your personal observation of the southwest finns i.e do they look more on the baltic side or more on the nordic side,from what i was told people from west coast of finland have mixed with swedes ,so they look more swedish then people who live in the interior,but i don,t really????!!! what do u think

guleet
2011-11-05, 01:41
from what i was told southwest finns look more swedish then the people from the interior
who look more east baltic ,maybe you have been there and made some observations!!!

guleet
2011-11-05, 22:12
as far as i know this is the part of finland closest to sweden ,and as finland was part of sweden for 700 years there might have been some mixing

Nordman
2011-12-25, 18:14
Here's some pictures of Finland-Swedes from the southwest finland. In my opinion theirs features are quite Swedish.
http://www.yle.fi/ims/nyheter/2010/22/314204c034d2a56ecd/314204c034d2a56ecd_3.jpg
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQhLWJwIfpj-FgiIr2cUj1QZ8JEJ57hdtGmQtQPJVJu7Lk9G95Ikg
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTg5779fLGH5jSgBvICRFxcc_GvW5hfy E5oU_41F5-XNyKOXhvD
http://www.mbi.pargas.fi/images/24.jpg
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSINmaHdLIfhn6JEZx1nvz0J7deMNheO PYvobaWhjR5gczVKct7ww
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTi8YirgzUdqXuShqyNLXba1WT-shInCmXiqTmoCymZJ7_035uzw
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUKb3B8g3OW4i6TPt3cgIcGq4UJiAuZ 8N9wK173CohVQPjOxDvOA
http://www2.edu.fi/svenska/mlm/image.php?id=156

Motörhead Remember Me
2012-01-03, 15:02
What happened, Nordman?

Did you get drunk after posting the first time and woke up next day to think "Shit, I needed to post this..."

Some southwestern Finns:
Saku Koivu
http://is13.snstatic.fi/kuvat/saku-koivu-siirtyy-anaheimiin/img-1288334525811.jpg
Eemeli Salomäki
http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/urheilu/sekalaiset/2010/956639.jpg
Jarkko Nieminen
http://static.iltalehti.fi/urheilu/liikevaihtoSL_ur.jpg

Lemminkäinen
2012-01-03, 15:10
It's time for a thread about them in my opinion. What is their origin?

Back in the old school typology days, Karhunkynsi's biggest idol, Herman Lundborg, and his crew discovered that the Southwest Finns (Finns Proper) were quite dolicocephalic and had a strikingly tall height. The only logical conclusion for this was because they had to have absorbed a lot of Swedish blood throughout the years. PTG (and Grynda) has also used this argument occasionally because the Swedish Ostrobothnians cluster close to Proper Finns (and Southern Ostrobothnians) in DNA-studies.

Looking at Y-DNA haplogroups, this argument seems very vague. Haplogroup N1c1 is more common in Finland Proper (around 60 percent) than in for example Southern Ostrobothnia and Satakunta. (Source. (http://i47.tinypic.com/2pq9i4x.jpg)) But then again, these provinces were also admixed with Germanics because they had a rather tall average height at the time. :whoco:

They are taller than Finns as average because of the western Baltic-Finnic ancestrty, not the Scandinavian ancestry.

Viking
2012-01-03, 15:13
They are taller than Finns as average because of the western Baltic-Finnic ancestrty, not the Scandinavian ancestry.

I doubt there's any height difference today, at least not a significant one.

takoja
2012-01-03, 17:35
from what i was told southwest finns look more swedish then the people from the interior
who look more east baltic ,maybe you have been there and made some observations!!!

I have no strong opinion on exact phenotypes, but overall impression is this.
My experience on the southwest Finnish females is that they are charming indeed. I guess the guys are ok too I have no strong opinion on that. But what has been revealed to me by several sw Finnish females privately is that they are very much taken by the wild virility of the Eastern Finnish male. Also they have been quite amazed by the size and fortitude of the Eastern Finnish penis. Again I must stress that these are not my personal opinions, but what has been revealed to me in private conversations with sw Finnish females.

Overall impression that I have got trough these conversations is that the sw Finnish female quite prefer the Eastern Finnish male, which is in a way tragic as they often have to settle for their own kind. Oh!, there is one exception though; many have said that the Savolaxian man is a coldhearted brute, so that is a big no-no.

Lemminkäinen
2012-01-03, 17:52
Considering Takoja's words you have no doubts how jealous Karelian men usually are for SW-Finnish men :)

Resurrection
2012-01-03, 18:30
he looks like myself..





Eemeli Salomäki
http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/urheilu/sekalaiset/2010/956639.jpg

Motörhead Remember Me
2012-01-03, 21:08
I have no strong opinion on exact phenotypes, but overall impression is this.
My experience on the southwest Finnish females is that they are charming indeed. I guess the guys are ok too I have no strong opinion on that. But what has been revealed to me by several sw Finnish females privately is that they are very much taken by the wild virility of the Eastern Finnish male. Also they have been quite amazed by the size and fortitude of the Eastern Finnish penis. Again I must stress that these are not my personal opinions, but what has been revealed to me in private conversations with sw Finnish females.

Overall impression that I have got trough these conversations is that the sw Finnish female quite prefer the Eastern Finnish male, which is in a way tragic as they often have to settle for their own kind. Oh!, there is one exception though; many have said that the Savolaxian man is a coldhearted brute, so that is a big no-no.

Fascinating.

Grynda
2012-01-05, 23:18
I have no strong opinion on exact phenotypes, but overall impression is this.
My experience on the southwest Finnish females is that they are charming indeed. I guess the guys are ok too I have no strong opinion on that. But what has been revealed to me by several sw Finnish females privately is that they are very much taken by the wild virility of the Eastern Finnish male. Also they have been quite amazed by the size and fortitude of the Eastern Finnish penis. Again I must stress that these are not my personal opinions, but what has been revealed to me in private conversations with sw Finnish females.

Overall impression that I have got trough these conversations is that the sw Finnish female quite prefer the Eastern Finnish male, which is in a way tragic as they often have to settle for their own kind. Oh!, there is one exception though; many have said that the Savolaxian man is a coldhearted brute, so that is a big no-no.

I have a suspicion that these girls have been taken you for a ride. :p

takoja
2012-01-06, 15:36
Considering Takoja's words you have no doubts how jealous Karelian men usually are for SW-Finnish men :)

Look, I don't know what you are on about. I just repeated what I heard. Anyhow I will let this pic of sw Finnish men speak for itself...

http://media.riemurasia.net/albumit/m13996/normal_bogart.jpg



Fascinating.

It is.


I have a suspicion that these girls have been taken you for a ride. :p

Quit yanking my balls woman. Anyhow they rode me all right, but I had the wheel.

Jaska
2012-01-10, 04:53
It's time for a thread about them in my opinion. What is their origin?

Back in the old school typology days, Karhunkynsi's biggest idol, Herman Lundborg, and his crew discovered that the Southwest Finns (Finns Proper) were quite dolicocephalic and had a strikingly tall height. The only logical conclusion for this was because they had to have absorbed a lot of Swedish blood throughout the years. PTG (and Grynda) has also used this argument occasionally because the Swedish Ostrobothnians cluster close to Proper Finns (and Southern Ostrobothnians) in DNA-studies.

Looking at Y-DNA haplogroups, this argument seems very vague. Haplogroup N1c1 is more common in Finland Proper (around 60 percent) than in for example Southern Ostrobothnia and Satakunta. (Source. (http://i47.tinypic.com/2pq9i4x.jpg)) But then again, these provinces were also admixed with Germanics because they had a rather tall average height at the time. :whoco:
I put this here, too:

There seem to be major differences between the Western and Eastern Finnish N1c1.

http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/N1c1Eng67.xps
http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/N1c1Eng67.pdf

guleet
2012-01-24, 16:01
hmmm some these men that takoja posted look very swedish to me !!!

guleet
2012-01-30, 22:34
anthropology of the baltic finns:-
Racial Types of the Baltic Finns

...The Finns and Swedes of Southwestern Finland are characteristically tall (height is more than 173 cm), relatively long and narrow headed, and as a result more doliocephalic than all other investigated groups (cephalic index is less than 80), the face is morphologically longer and more leptoprosopic (morphological facial index is more than 90), the nose is more leptorhine (in the vast majority of cases, the nasal index is less than 64). Concave profiled nasal bridges are infrequent, and convex profiled nasal bridges more frequent, relative to the East of Finland. The forehead slopes, and the browridges are strongly developed.

All of the traits described above are characteristic of the Scandinavian type.

The Estonians of the Western part of the Estonian S.S.S.R differ slightly from the population of Southwest Finland. Western Estonians are somewhat less doliocephalic, (since the breadth of their heads is larger) and their bizygomatic distance is somewhat larger. In addition to this, their foreheads slope more, and their browridges are heavy. Finally, Western Estonians are more robust than the population of Southwest Finland. Thus, Western Estonians belong to the West-Baltic type. This has also been established by other authors (U. Aul, 1964b, M. V. Vitov, K. U. Mark, N. N. Cheboksarov, 1959).

The West-Baltic type is also common among Livs and Western Latvians (M. V. Vitov, K. U. Mark, N. N. Cheboksraov, 1959).

Regardless of their differences, the two aforementioned types - Scandinavian and West-Baltic - have much in common. This is why in Soviet anthropological literature they are often referred to collectively as the "Atlanto-Baltic race"

It should be noted that certain groups of Southwestern Finns are broader-faced, and in this way are close to Estonians.

The Finns of Eastern Finland, Karelians, Vepses, Ijores and Eastern Estonians are characterized by a different set of traits. In the vast majority of groups studied, height is lower, the head is more brachycephalic (cephalic index is more than 80.0), the face is shorter (morphological facial index is less than 90), the nose is lower, and concave nasal profiles are quite frequent. The forehead is straight and the browridges are only weakly developed, which allows us to chracterize a portion of these groups as gracile. It should be reiterated that some of these groups are extremely light pigmented, and simultaneously display weak Mongoloi admixture. This complex of traits is typical of the East-Baltic type.

Soviet anthropologists usually regard Vepses as the most typical representatives of the East-Baltic type (see M V. Vitov, K. U. Mark, N. N. Cheboksarov, 1959, p. 103-104). According to our data, Vepses and Korelians are distinguishable from the Finns of Eastern Finland and Eastern Estonians mainly by larger cranial and facial dimensions, which are apparently correlated with a decrease in height.

The differences between Eastern and Western Estonians are not as easy to extarpolate. In the Estonian S.S.S.R, the East-Baltic type has many intermediate variants with the West-Baltic type.

The Saami are distinguished from the Finns and Swedes of the Baltic by lower height (less than 164 cm.), much more noticeable brachycephaly (cephalic index 82-84), and especially, by an extremely short face (morphological face height 118-121 mm.). This is the cause of the euryprosopic face characteristic of the Saami (morphological facial index 86 or less). The nose is broad, and quite often the profile of the nose is concave. The forehead is usually straight, the browridges are weakly developed - in other words, we are dealing with a gracile type.

The hair and eye pigmentation of the Saami is darker than that of the Baltic Finns, but the Saami themselves are not remarkably dark. Mongoloid admixture among the Saami is also stronger, athough the Europid element is predominant. This complex of traits allows us to include the Saami in the Uralic race, intermediate between Europids and Mongoloids, namely the Lappinoid type of the aforementioned race.

Skolt-Saami are less Mongoloid than other Saami, as well as lighter-eyed, longer headed and longer-faced. The distinctions between them and representatives of the East-Baltic race are far less important that the distinctions between the East-Baltic race and other Saami.

In general, the Lappinoid type is not much different from other forms of the Uralic race, which have a wide range of distribution among the Finno-Ugric peoples. This is especially true of the sub-Lappinoid type, common among the Mari, the Udmurts and Komi Permyaks. The Saami are distinguished from these peoples mostly by a shorter face and brachycephaly.

It is intersting to note that in many ways, the East-Baltic type is intermediate between the Lappinoid and the Atlanto-Baltic types (Scandinavian and West Baltic). Paleoanthropological data tells us that this is not accidental.

Source: Anthropology of the Balto-Finnish Peoples, by Karin Mark, p. 41-42.

Jerry
2012-02-09, 21:24
I'm predominantly SW Finnish, my father is completely SW Finnish and also 1/4+ Finland-Swede and my paternal haplotype is n1c1*

Jaska
2012-02-09, 21:34
I'm predominantly SW Finnish, my father is completely SW Finnish and also 1/4+ Finland-Swede and my paternal haplotype is n1c1*
Could you tell your FTDNA or YSearch ID? It would be interesting to look at your haplotype.

Jerry
2012-02-09, 21:43
Could you tell your FTDNA or YSearch ID? It would be interesting to look at your haplotype.

I'm not in FTDNA unfortunately, only 23andme.. :( I don't know what is YSearch ID, but I assume I don't have it either..

Tuohikirje
2012-02-09, 21:53
I am going to order the marker test when the time is right. My YDNA is not South Western most likely, but you never know the outcome before you have tested.

Hweinlant
2012-02-09, 22:04
http://kuva1.kuvablogi.com/iso/img2148468.jpg
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/50706487/Matti+ja+Teppo+Untitled2.jpg

Tuohikirje
2012-02-09, 22:16
:lol:

I need a drink and there is like sand in my eyes.
(First Takoja and now Hweinlant).

Luckily SW women are notoriously beautiful.

Dave
2012-02-09, 22:32
they may be taller because of enviromental selection, why does it always have to be gene flow

Jaska
2012-02-09, 23:23
I'm not in FTDNA unfortunately, only 23andme.. :( I don't know what is YSearch ID, but I assume I don't have it either..
I YSearch you can put your haplotype, no matter which firm made the test:
http://www.ysearch.org/add_start.asp?uid=

Leave the "-" in those spots marked with one red star.

takoja
2012-07-10, 22:21
I dedicate this song to Jerry!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S0Tne1B-IU

Hugs & kisses!