PDA

View Full Version : can someone please explain scandinavian eyes..



persika79
2011-01-22, 04:22
Specifically why they are asian looking occasionally? I have heard that many with Saami lineage have this trait, but I don't think I have any (known) history of that and my eyes look somewhat asian. My brother's do a lot. excuse my ignorance ..I'm not well versed on the subject. Thank you!

Karl der Große
2011-01-27, 11:03
Eyes are shaped in many different ways, for individuals as well as entire ethnic groups. Asians (Mongoloids) tend to have a particular eyelid shape where there appears to be no crease in the eyelid, where it's very different from some Lappid or Uralid Northern Europeans.

alfieb
2011-01-27, 11:10
Admixture. The paternal ancestors of the Saami, Finns, Estonians came from the Far East. Swedes, Norwegians, Russians etc. have intermarried with them over the past thousands of years, so they can be found with the trait, too.

horizont
2011-01-27, 13:19
it can easily be explained ..
Finns are Asian.
Finno-Ugric tribes came from Asia to the territory of present-day Scandinavia ..
That is why many Finns have a "Mongolian" look ...

takoja
2011-01-27, 13:40
Admixture. The paternal ancestors of the Saami, Finns, Estonians came from the Far East. Swedes, Norwegians, Russians etc. have intermarried with them over the past thousands of years, so they can be found with the trait, too.

So now that we have found out, that you are actually Norwegian, I have to ask whether this special eyeshape is common in your family?

Karhunkynsi
2011-01-27, 13:51
Admixture. The paternal ancestors of the Saami, Finns, Estonians came from the Far East.

This is not true. The Paternal ancestors of the forementioned people came from East Africa.

See haplogroup F* (http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpF.html) for more information.

Viking
2011-01-27, 14:03
Borealization (adaption that can occassionally occur due to living in a cold climate for a long time). There are Germans, Austrians and Dutch people with these eyefolds, and I don't think you could blame their eyeshapes on "Saami" (or Finnic) admixture. Obviously, it is slightly more common in northern Europe than in the central parts due to the North being colder (Finland is the coldest).

From left to right: Geraldine Kemper (Dutch), Klaus Maria Brandhauer (Austrian) and Tom Kaulitz (German).

Day Tripper
2011-01-27, 14:29
Interesting, Viking. I think my eyes exhibit some degree of borealization. I think it looks creepy in my case.

49976

alfieb
2011-01-27, 14:44
So now that we have found out, that you are actually Norwegian, I have to ask whether this special eyeshape is common in your family?

Not whatsoever. Large eyes predominate, and I have the least of the bunch.

I'm not necessarily of any Norwegian ancestry. I just cluster there. The other Scandinavian ethnicities aren't on the map, so "Norwegian" could just be a placeholder for Danish for all I know.


This is not true. The Paternal ancestors of the forementioned people came from East Africa.

See haplogroup F* (http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpF.html) for more information.

What does Haplogroup F have to do with anything?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Haplogroup_F_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG


Most Finns are N. N originates in China or Mongolia.

Day Tripper
2011-01-27, 21:18
Here's what I think is an excellent example of highly borealized eyes: Agnetha Fältskog

5004150045

Eliades
2011-01-27, 21:21
I have larger eyes for the most part, but the whole Borealization is very correct. Most people I know of predominately Northern European descent have eyes that look Borealized.

Karhunkynsi
2011-01-27, 21:46
What does Haplogroup F have to do with anything?
...
Most Finns are N. N originates in China or Mongolia.

Obviously hg N has all the mutations of the Hg F. It's very simple Alfredo.

Hg N apparently originated somewhere at Southeast Asia, just next to originating spot of Hg R. Alfredo, your paternal ancestors came from Asia, is that why score so high with Norwegians ;)

alfieb
2011-01-27, 21:55
Europe and Asia are artificial continents. I'm admittedly semi-Asian in that the Middle East is a significant component of my heritage. You know very well that NO were Mongoloids, sir.

Pallantides
2011-01-27, 21:59
Novalis(real name: Georg Philipp Friedrich Freiherr von Hardenberg)
50052

doubt he had any Saami or Finnish ancestry...

Kaiku
2011-01-27, 22:06
^What a total dandy. I like the stylishly aloof look on his face.

Karhunkynsi
2011-01-28, 09:14
You know very well that NO were Mongoloids, sir.

It is impossible, sir. Afaik NO is something like 30.000 years old. It is found (in extremely low numbers) from the same hood as the P. Now before the hg MNOPS was found it was obviously ofshoot of hg NOP.

Hg P should be renamed into hg RQ imo. So that it would better reflect the naming stragy of these haplogroups. Hg P (xR,Q) was just found from Philippines. Perhaps this expains your never-ending crush to Ioke ?

alfieb
2011-01-28, 09:27
It is impossible, sir. Afaik NO is something like 30.000 years old. It is found (in extremely low numbers) from the same hood as the P. Now before the hg MNOPS was found it was obviously ofshoot of hg NOP.
Yeah, yeah. You know what I meant. They looked more like Chinese people than they do Swedes. Rightfully so, as the people whose descendants later became the Chinese were also NO.


Hg P should be renamed into hg RQ imo. So that it would better reflect the naming stragy of these haplogroups. Hg P (xR,Q) was just found from Philippines. Perhaps this expains your never-ending crush to Ioke ?
Oooooh, somebody's touchy this morning. Woke up on the wrong side of the yurt?

Sorry, bro. Not a fan of the personal shit. Ad hominems are beneath me.

JaM
2011-01-28, 09:36
Specifically why they are asian looking occasionally? I have heard that many with Saami lineage have this trait, but I don't think I have any (known) history of that and my eyes look somewhat asian. My brother's do a lot. excuse my ignorance ..I'm not well versed on the subject. Thank you!

I think that Scandinavians have eyes that are very different from Asian eyes, if we talk about the mean. However, sometimes people, mostly women, may have slightly paedomorphic features, and thus a combination of short, low rooted nose and a general paeodomorphism may produce a somewhat Asian looking eyelid shape (if you deliberately look for a similarity).

Sometimes it’s a matter of how low rooted the nose is, since many children have epicanthus’s, but it disappears as the nose grows/the nose root gets higher.

However, I've seen that in people from all over Europe, not just Scandinavia. Low rooted noses are somewhat more common in Northern Europe, or perhaps some parts of Central, and NW Europe, than is the case in Southern Europe.

Northern Europeans, and some Central Europeans generally have smaller noses (with a low. broad root) than Southern Europeans, and since people vary, there will always be a variation where some have even lower rooted noses than the mean, and thus some people may retain the childhood epicanthus more commonly in Northern Europe than in Southern Europe.

Sometimes people just happen to have slanted eyes, for no real reason, even if they have high rooted noses. That's just a part of the natural variation.

Karhunkynsi
2011-01-28, 09:58
Oooooh, somebody's touchy this morning. Woke up on the wrong side of the yurt?

Sorry, bro. Not a fan of the personal shit. Ad hominems are beneath me.

Nice duck Ali. Why is the Hg QR (P) found from same places as Hg NO ?

Difference really is that when N splitted of from NO, these guys head to North Asia and while R splitted of from QR (P), these guys went to South Asia. There is little bit of P in China too but the all the Hg R's are so markedly South Asian that there is no need to assume that they went north.

alfieb
2011-01-28, 10:05
Fascinating. I thought P only currently existed in India.

The rest of your argument is irrelevant noise that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Karhunkynsi
2011-01-28, 10:09
Fascinating. I thought P only currently existed in India.


No, it exists in the jungle tribes of Philippines.



The rest of your argument is irrelevant noise that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

You , as the master of offtopic, brought up the haplogroups into discussion.

So what do you think those Hg R people looked like ? Tamils ? Andamanese ? Negritoes ?

You seem to have detailed information about these ancient morphologies of different haplogroups.

alfieb
2011-01-28, 10:56
I, the very viking destroyer of souls, brought up NO.

You're talking about QR.

Indians are said to look the way they do from intermixing with Australoids.

Finns look the way they do from intermixing with Caucasoids. That is, unless you consider them Caucasoids, then it would be because their paternal line ancestors were slants from the Far East.

Aino
2011-01-28, 11:09
Europe and Asia are artificial continents. I'm admittedly semi-Asian in that the Middle East is a significant component of my heritage. You know very well that NO were Mongoloids, sir.

As Karhunkynsi already stated, there were no Mongoloids 30,000 years ago.


Peter Brown (1999) evaluates three sites with early East Asian modern human skeletal remains (Liujiang, Liuzhou, Guangxi, China; Shandingdong Man of (but not Peking Man) Zhoukoudian's Upper Cave; and Minatogawa in Okinawa) dated to between 10,175 to 33,200 years ago, and finds lack of support for the conventional designation of skeletons from this period as "Proto-Mongoloid"; this would make Neolithic sites 5500 to 7000 years ago (e.g. Banpo) the oldest known Mongoloid remains in East Asia, younger than some in the Americas. He concludes that the origin of the Mongoloid phenotype remains unknown, and could even lie in the New World.

Here is a link to Brown's paper:

http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~pbrown3/brown99.pdf

Karhunkynsi
2011-01-28, 11:20
I, the very viking destroyer of souls, brought up NO.


So NO is actually short for Norway :o

As you propably know the K-M9 is found also from Indonesia and Philippines. That means that all P,R,Q,NO,O,N,M,S (=Hg MNOPS) ultimately come from Southeast Asia (and obviously even deeper origins are in Africa). While the Ns took a counter clockwise route to Europe, the Rs took a clockwise route to Europe.



You're talking about QR.

Now I'm asking how those ancient South Asian R-people looked like, NO was afterall their uncle from the same hood. Also please describe how the QR people looked like.

As you are well informed in these matters I think it is your responsibility to share the knowledge.

alfieb
2011-01-28, 11:23
My only responsibility is to counter-troll you, and I'm not presently in the mood to engage in that.

Karhunkynsi
2011-01-28, 11:29
My only responsibility is to counter-troll you, and I'm not presently in the mood to engage in that.

So you know for fact that jungle tribes of NOs were mongoloid but you refuse to reveal actual morphology of jungle tribes of QR-people to protect the 'racial purity of Sicilians' (LOL).

I know you know how they looked like. You are deliberately keeping secrets from us less informed souls. Shame on you Alibaba.

alfieb
2011-01-28, 11:31
Racial purity doesn't exist.

We're discussing why your people have a high level of chinkeye. If your position is that it has nothing at all to do with the fact that you're Siberians, prove it.

Kaiku
2011-01-28, 11:32
Yeah, yeah. You know what I meant. They looked more like Chinese people than they do Swedes. Rightfully so, as the people whose descendants later became the Chinese were also NO.

People who looked like the Chinese 30 000 years ago? Hardly, bro. The Mongoloid phenotype is very recent. The oldest verified modern Mongoloid remains are only from 5500 to 7000 years ago.


Sorry, bro. Not a fan of the personal shit. Ad hominems are beneath me.

Bullshit.

alfieb
2011-01-28, 11:34
...modern...

Gotta love magical little words that transform the meaning of a post.

Kaiku
2011-01-28, 11:36
Gotta love magical little words that transform the meaning of a post.

Please explain. Too hard for you to understand? Too many "conflicting" words in one sentence for you to comprehend? You know perfectly well what I mean.

Karhunkynsi
2011-01-28, 11:45
Racial purity doesn't exist.


Not for Sicilians atleast. I think Mbuti pygmies are pretty darn racially pure.



We're discussing why your people have a high level of chinkeye. If your position is that it has nothing at all to do with the fact that you're Siberians, prove it.

We are discussing about the racial type of NO people who according to you are responsible for chinky-eyes (what ever that means) at North Europe. Obviously if the NO people are responsible for that (note that there are zero (0) NO people anywhere in the Europe) you have to explain why you, the decendants of Southeast Asian QR-people dont have chinky-eyes.

It is you who brought it up, thus you must prove your words. I havent made any dubious claims.

Finally explain the morphology of QR-people. I know you know it. I want to know too. Keeping anthrosecrets is big no no.

alfieb
2011-01-28, 11:50
:rolleyes:

What I said was that NO was the common ancestor of the majority of Orientals (O) and the majority of Finns (N).

When you have to mince words so desperately to even pretend to have a point, you may as well just take a knee and call it a day.

Lemminkäinen
2011-01-28, 11:51
I, the very viking destroyer of souls, brought up NO.

You're talking about QR.

Indians are said to look the way they do from intermixing with Australoids.

Finns look the way they do from intermixing with Caucasoids. That is, unless you consider them Caucasoids, then it would be because their paternal line ancestors were slants from the Far East.

If you think about N1c1 you'll find it also among Balts who are genetically the purest North Europeans. They wouldn't be if they came from Asia. Now we have seen that also the origin of I1 could be in Poland. It sounds credible to me. This all is pointing to an assumption that Finns are Caucasoids with arctic admix, not that they are primarily Asians with Caucasoid admix.

Karhunkynsi
2011-01-28, 11:56
:rolleyes:

What I said was that NO was the common ancestor of the majority of Orientals (O) and the majority of Finns (N).



Yes, and I said QR (P) is from same hood as NO. QR was the common ancestor of the Amazonians (Q) and the majority of South Asians (R).



When you have to mince words so desperately to even pretend to have a point, you may as well just take a knee and call it a day.

No, I only use same criteria as you do. It is you who refuse to answer my very legit questions.

Pallantides
2011-02-01, 19:57
I think the "slanty" eyeshape is native to Scandinavia and don't have anything to do with any sort of asian influence.


Kristin Tøsse Løvseth from Lillehammer in Oppland
508235082450825


Mari Midstigen, both her parents are from Odda in Oppland
5082650827

some people from Valdres in Oppland with "slanted" eyes:
50830508315083650837508385084150845

old illustrations of people from Valdres:
5083950840



50828
50829

Unurautare
2011-02-01, 20:09
If you think about N1c1 you'll find it also among Balts who are genetically the purest North Europeans. They wouldn't be if they came from Asia. Now we have seen that also the origin of I1 could be in Poland. It sounds credible to me. This all is pointing to an assumption that Finns are Caucasoids with arctic admix, not that they are primarily Asians with Caucasoid admix.

Yeah,the finnish language landed on pure nordicist Finns. God forbid speakers of uralic and altaic being put together. :lol:

OUPS!
|
V

http://joshberer.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/linguistic-map-of-the-altaic-turkic-and-uralic-languages.png

http://www.indiana.edu/~iaunrc/images/IAUNRC_map.gif

All heil the master race!

Janos
2011-02-01, 20:10
It's not about having slanted eyes, its about having epicanthus

Like this woman from finland

50847

Resurrection
2011-02-01, 20:22
Mari Midstigen, both her parents are from Odda in Oppland
5082650827


Mari Midtstigen, right? She's hawt! I like Pernille Holmboe too another sexy Norse godness.

Kaiku
2011-02-01, 20:57
All heil the master race!

Indeed.

Now bow before my stern Asiatic gaze.

Pallantides
2011-02-01, 21:02
indeed.

Now bow before my stern asiatic gaze.

50853

Kaiku
2011-02-01, 21:04
^lol :lol:

Unurautare
2011-02-01, 21:20
Indeed.

Now bow before my stern Asiatic gaze.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2842452790/ So this was you,the red hair uyghur/finn. You central asians are such shapeshifters....sneaky finns.:<

Unome
2011-02-01, 22:52
I think the "slanty" eyeshape is native to Scandinavia and don't have anything to do with any sort of asian influence.
"Native" meaning how long??

Why wouldn't "slanty" eyes be Asian when 100% of East Asians and Mongoloids have them but Western Europeans, and Meds, do not?? How do you explain these geographic differences?? Where did the trait arise from if-not East Asia or Siberia?

:confused:

Pallantides
2011-02-02, 00:24
"Native" meaning how long??

Why wouldn't "slanty" eyes be Asian when 100% of East Asians and Mongoloids have them but Western Europeans, and Meds, do not?? How do you explain these geographic differences?? Where did the trait arise from if-not East Asia or Siberia?

:confused:

Since the first ancestors of modern Scandinavians settled there,
there is really nothing east asian about the eyeshape in question ...


such features can also be found in some British people:
50866508675086850870508715087250873



even some Sardinians have sort of 'slanty' eyes:
508775087850879508805088150882

dsong2006
2011-02-02, 01:06
Germans too!

amenoameno
2011-02-02, 01:13
Very simple. Indoeuropeans, eastern asians and native americans share the same kind of central asian ancestry. This is what Spencer Wells is talking about.

---------- Post added 2011-02-02 at 09:15 ----------


Since the first ancestors of modern Scandinavians settled there,
there is really nothing east asian about the eyeshape in question ...


such features can also be found in some British people:
50866508675086850870508715087250873



even some Sardinians have sort of 'slanty' eyes:
508775087850879508805088150882

I would say you for example is more mongoloid than caucasoid judging from your features.

Pallantides
2011-02-02, 01:21
I would say you for example is more mongoloid than caucasoid judging from your features.

really...
50889

amenoameno
2011-02-02, 01:27
really...
50889

DNA is one thing.

Debian
2011-02-02, 05:22
Here's what I think is an excellent example of highly borealized eyes: Agnetha Fältskog

5004150045

arent you decimator for any chance?

Day Tripper
2011-02-02, 05:48
arent you decimator for any chance?

No...

Are you drunk, by any chance?

---------- Post added 2011-02-02 at 00:51 ----------


"Native" meaning how long??

Why wouldn't "slanty" eyes be Asian when 100% of East Asians and Mongoloids have them but Western Europeans, and Meds, do not?? How do you explain these geographic differences?? Where did the trait arise from if-not East Asia or Siberia?

:confused:

What about Capoids?

Debian
2011-02-02, 05:51
Interesting, Viking. I think my eyes exhibit some degree of borealization. I think it looks creepy in my case.

49976

i expected you to look like an squarehead faelid.. but you seem to be a wog like me.

Unome
2011-02-02, 06:17
What about Capoids?
Capoids?

Day Tripper
2011-02-02, 06:29
Capoids?

Capoids:

51093

I wouldn't expect that their eye shape originated in East Asia or Siberia.

Unome
2011-02-02, 06:39
Capoids:

51093

I wouldn't expect that their eye shape originated in East Asia or Siberia.
Then where did the trait arise, OR, why does it become so exaggerated in Mongoloid peoples (East Asians) and not others??

I mean, with Chinese and Japanese people, can anybody really argue against the obvious fact??


I don't see the problem of somebody (ie. Pallantides) being "indigenous European" AND having "slanty eyes" but that doesn't mean it's common, at all. In fact, just the opposite with most Europeans… having "moderate" or even "droopy" (inverted) eyes.

I think the Uralic tribes are to 'blame' for Scandinavians having "slanty eyes".


P.S. I actually think they look better than other eye shapes, speaking for myself… they look like cat/feline eyes.

Day Tripper
2011-02-02, 06:57
Then where did the trait arise, OR, why does it become so exaggerated in Mongoloid peoples (East Asians) and not others??

I mean, with Chinese and Japanese people, can anybody really argue against the obvious fact??

AFAIK, the epicanthic fold so ubiquitous in Mongoloid people is an adaptation to the harsh winds and cold in the Central Asian steppes.


I don't see the problem of somebody (ie. Pallantides) being "indigenous European" AND having "slanty eyes" but that doesn't mean it's common, at all. In fact, just the opposite with most Europeans… having "moderate" or even "droopy" (inverted) eyes.

It might be that, but it could be a bit of convergent evolution as well due to cold adaptation (borealization). Then again, the climate in Scandinavia is quite mild for its latitude.


I think the Uralic tribes are to 'blame' for Scandinavians having "slanty eyes".


P.S. I actually think they look better than other eye shapes, speaking for myself… they look like cat/feline eyes.

I agree...It looks very good on someone like Agnetha Faltskog or Olivia Wilde.

Lemminkäinen
2011-02-02, 07:55
I think the Uralic tribes are to 'blame' for Scandinavians having "slanty eyes".


P.S. I actually think they look better than other eye shapes, speaking for myself… they look like cat/feline eyes.

Day Tripper


I agree...It looks very good on someone like Agnetha Faltskog or Olivia Wilde.


In fact, I dont see much common between Agneta/Olivia and a typical Finnish eye trait. When Agneta and Olivia has the outer corner of the eye upwards, it is in Finland straight in line with the inner corner or in worse cases downwards. This despite what some trolls write here. I would say that all Chineses are not alike :p

Kaiku
2011-02-02, 08:27
DNA is one thing.

Ultimately DNA is the "only thing". Everything else is pretty much left to individual interpretation. You´re showing a great deal of ignorance, something which I´ve noticed in many other posts of yours.

Grynda
2011-02-02, 22:43
In fact, I dont see much common between Agneta/Olivia and a typical Finnish eye trait. When Agneta and Olivia has the outer corner of the eye upwards, it is in Finland straight in line with the inner corner or in worse cases downwards. This despite what some trolls write here. I would say that all Chineses are not alike :p

Aren't Finnish eyes also usually deeper than Agnetha's?

SaamiKiller
2011-03-01, 12:39
I think the "slanty" eyeshape is native to Scandinavia and don't have anything to do with any sort of asian influence.


Kristin Tøsse Løvseth from Lillehammer in Oppland
508235082450825


Mari Midstigen, both her parents are from Odda in Oppland
5082650827

some people from Valdres in Oppland with "slanted" eyes:
50830508315083650837508385084150845

old illustrations of people from Valdres:
5083950840



50828
50829

Squinty eyes are squinty eyes and not Scandinavian. Neither are brwon eyes Scandinavian (the ugly girls you posted are brown-eyed asiatics).