View Full Version : Cape Verde and Cape Verdeans
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The Republic of Cape Verde (pronounced /ˌkeɪp ˈvɜ:rd/ ) Portuguese: Cabo Verde, pronounced [ˈkabu ˈveɾdɨ]) is an island country, spanning an archipelago located in the Macaronesia ecoregion of the North Atlantic Ocean, off the western coast of Africa, opposite Mauritania and Senegal.
It is slightly more than 4,000 km in area with an estimated population of over 500,000. The capital of Cape Verde is Praia. The previously uninhabited islands were discovered and colonized by the Portuguese in the 15th century, and attained independence from Portugal in 1975.
As of 2007, Cape Verde is classified as a developing country after being promoted from Least Developed Countries status. About 20% of the population lives on less than $1.25 (U.S.) a day.
Around 71 percent of the population is Creole of mixed black African and Portuguese descent. The remainder of the population is mostly black Africans, with a small number of whites. The European men who colonized Cape Verde did not usually bring wives or families with them. As female African slaves were brought to the islands, inter-marriages occurred.[10]
More than 85 percent of the population is nominally Roman Catholic,[16] though for a minority of the population Catholicism is syncretized with African influences.[2] The largest Protestant denomination is the Church of the Nazarene; other groups include the Seventh-day Adventist Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Assemblies of God, the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God, and various other Pentecostal and evangelical groups.[16] There are small Baha'i communities and a small Muslim community.[16] The number of atheists is estimated at less than 1 percent of the population.
President Pedro Verona Rodrigues Pires
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Cape Verdeans who could pass for people of the New world . Brazilians of course are number one, since Cape verdeans are basically Brazilians with out Amerindian influence.
Brazilians?
http://i15.servimg.com/u/f15/11/07/64/53/eddupr11.jpg
http://www.ecaboverde.com/data/media/15/S6300288.jpg
Dominican or Cuban?
http://b3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01070/31/76/1070556713_l.jpg
Haitian or black Dominicans?
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_I6CUHNfmSSE/SzRdIDTwVxI/AAAAAAAAEhI/lEVPVnjuQzU/capeverdean3%20small.jpg
The Cape Verdeans i know here in the tri-state area always get confused for Dominican instantly, and the very light more portugese looking ones get confused for p.r. Its amazing how much they look like Dominicans, also because sometimes Iberian + Afro can produce Pseudo Tri-racial and Pseudo-Zambo looks, more often Pseudo-Triracial looks. But the closest i have seen to Dominicans is hands down Haitian "Mulattos" are indistinguishable from Dominicans, the only thing that sometimes distincts cape verdeans is some of them have this distant portugese influence look to them, also being of Sudanid Ancestry mostly where as D.R is mostly Congolese/Angolan ancestry also makes a subtle differnce, this is also the difference with Brazil, the Central-African influence is in my opinion the source of the "Bunda" which in itself is a Congolese word, that is found more commonly in Dominican and Brazilian women, this is less common but not absent in the sudanid sources for Cape Verde. I have met Cape Verdean women with very nice bodies here, but it doesnt compare to walking through washington heights on a summer day, (you will need a neck brace). In other words Dominican and Brazilian women have higher Bunda ratios
I think i'd be able to fit in smoothly into cape verdean despite some of my afroindegenous features, because some iberian mixes produce this as well.
Robin Goodfellow
2010-01-31, 09:40
This picture is extremely dolichocephalic.
http://www.fiba.com/images/web/Events/08/olymQual/men/WALL/_original/cpv_1024.jpg
It is curious that Africans never managed to colonize Cape Verde, and that they had to way to the Portuguese masters to bring them there.
EiCibaeño
2010-01-31, 16:24
But the closest i have seen to Dominicans is hands down Haitian "Mulattos" are indistinguishable from Dominicans
Definitely. Seeing the rich and elite dancing and drinking in clubs of Petionville I thought it was a club in Santiago. Light skinned/White/tri-racial looking people.
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It is curious that Africans never managed to colonize Cape Verde, and that they had to way to the Portuguese masters to bring them there.
This is a dumb comment, first of Africans lived in Climates and Societies that where so balanced at the time that there was no need to "conquer" anything, people who need to "conquer" are often people who are unconfortable in their settings, such as people who live in cold or arid, or atrocious climates, looking for better land. If i was living in a place with very fertile soil and a balanced society based on community and matrifocal lineages i would not attempt to cross an ocean and risk my life.
Also Africans did go to some islands without "Europeans" bringing them to them in case thats what you are wondering, the Bissago islands are an example of this.
This is a dumb comment, first of Africans lived in Climates and Societies that where so balanced at the time that there was no need to "conquer" anything, people who need to "conquer" are often people who are unconfortable in their settings, such as people who live in cold or arid, or atrocious climates, looking for better land. If i was living in a place with very fertile soil and a balanced society based on community and matrifocal lineages i would not attempt to cross an ocean and risk my life.
Also Africans did go to some islands without "Europeans" bringing them to them in case thats what you are wondering, the Bissago islands are an example of this.
No. It is not dumb. Never heared about West Africans conquering the Americas? Well, the truth is that they didn't even settled Cape Verde. That island was empty when Portuguese arrived.
It is also false that "Africans had societies so balanced there was no need to conquer". The Bantu expansion devasted the Pigmey and Khoi-San populations of Central and Southern Africa. So, don't tell me a fantasy about ecologically ballanced bantues.
Conclusion. Bantues were pretty bad sailors.
No. It is not dumb. Never heared about West Africans conquering the Americas? Well, the truth is that they didn't even settled Cape Verde. That island was empty when Portuguese arrived.
It is also false that "Africans had societies so balanced there was no need to conquer". The Bantu expansion devasted the Pigmey and Khoi-San populations of Central and Southern Africa. So, don't tell me a fantasy about ecologically ballanced bantues.
Conclusion. Bantues were pretty bad sailors.
I read some where that pygmies and tutsioid Africans created bantues/negroids.
I read some where that pygmies and tutsioid Africans created bantues/negroids.
What about to open a tread on the Bantu expansion and the natives that displaced?
No. It is not dumb. Never heared about West Africans conquering the Americas? Well, the truth is that they didn't even settled Cape Verde. That island was empty when Portuguese arrived.
It is also false that "Africans had societies so balanced there was no need to conquer". The Bantu expansion devasted the Pigmey and Khoi-San populations of Central and Southern Africa. So, don't tell me a fantasy about ecologically ballanced bantues.
Conclusion. Bantues were pretty bad sailors.
You evade the main part of my post the Bissago people, they are Indegenous to Bioko island its off the west coast of Equatorial Guinea. They have been there for thousands of years.
I was refering to the societies ins the region, and no the people of equatorial guinea are NOT bantu as they do NOT speak a bantu language. No one ever said it was all love and roses, of course there was alot of decimation of the aboriginal populations of the area. My point is that Africans for the most parts had much better soruces of natural resources and didnt need to venture off a coast to find food or sustinense.
You evade the main part of my post the Bissago people, they are Indegenous to Bioko island its off the west coast of Equatorial Guinea. They have been there for thousands of years.
I was refering to the societies ins the region, and no the people of equatorial guinea are NOT bantu as they do NOT speak a bantu language. No one ever said it was all love and roses, of course there was alot of decimation of the aboriginal populations of the area. My point is that Africans for the most parts had much better soruces of natural resources and didnt need to venture off a coast to find food or sustinense.
Interesting information. I will take note.
Let's open a tread on the Bantu expansion, then. I don't know if it is the right name but that's the name that scientists call it.
Interesting information. I will take note.
Let's open a tread on the Bantu expansion, then. I don't know if it is the right name but that's the name that scientists call it.
I agree as the Bantu languages are all over the place, for example the word Mango seems to be Mande rather then Kikongo but both are Bantu languages. We should definetly open a threat on Bantu expansion, its hard to find good sources though.
Back to cape verde though, any cape verdeans on the board?
More to the point, aren't the islands of Cape Verde very rocky and have little arable land? Unless you were planning to establish a trading post like the Portuguese did, there would be no reason to settle those islands in the first place. It became a big transfer point for slaves to the America, but no African would have cared about that before 1500.
It might have been an interesting historical footnote if some pre-Modern African state had settled Cape Verde, but what impact would it have made otherwise?
Agreed, would have been cool if some ancient westafrican kingdoms like Mali or Ghana had gone maritime and settle Cape Verde. But all these empires were landlocked and focused on transsahara trade. Sailing never came into their minds because they had no need for it.
Also cape verde could never have been settled by bantu people. Because they simply weren't around in western africa :D
Possibly wolof fishermen from Senegal might have visited the islands, but found them to be inhospitable.
Later on capeverdians themselves have proven to be excellent seamen. Both in worldwide service of colonial portuguese explorers (role of capeverdians in portuguese enterprise is very much understudied/underappreciated!) and later also famously for american whaling industry (http://www.umassd.edu/specialprograms/caboverde/whale.html).
I think capeverdeans were among the first black seamen recruited by the americans. Capeverdians even went all the way to hawai (http://www.yourislandroutes.com/articles/capeverdehawaii.shtml)in 19th C. and settled there.
Btw there's also other speculative theories about CV being discovered by phoenicians, arabs (who supposedly named the islands Aulil but that might have been a reference to Atlantis) and even the chinese :lol:
Chinese discovery is mentioned by Menzies in his entertaining but many times debunked book 1421 where he claims famous general Zheng He had circumnavigated the world some decades before the portuguese (Ferno de Magalhes) had.
It's all about this rock on Santo Anto island, which supposedly contains southindian writing (from an indian sailor picked up by the chinese while they were in Kerala???)
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http://www.bela-vista.net/Pedra-nossa-senhora-e.htm
I saw a piece on African American lives ll, and Professor Peter Gomes said his family came from Cape Verde generations before.
I think he said in Cape Verde (with the one drop rule going the other way) he could've been classed as white.
Peter Gomes
http://www.unc.edu/news/pics/visiting/gomes_peter.jpg
Brazil and the Cape Verde Islands: some aspects of Cultural Influence.
Pedro Alvares Cabral's ships left Portugal on 9 March 1500 en route for the territory that he first named Terra de Vera Cruz and that later came to be known as Brazil. On the 22 March they called at the island of Sao Nicolau [Caminha, 1500], one of the northernmost islands of the Cape Verde group; this was about forty years after the discovery of the archipelago in 1460-62 [Albuquerque, 1991]. (1) It is known that Vasco da Gama had stopped at the island of Santiago in 1498 on his voyage to India, and also in 1499 on the return journey. Straight after the discovery of Brazil Cabral sailed for India and on the way back also dropped anchor at Santiago. Indeed, our archipelago, which is situated off Cape Verde in Senegal (the place from which it appears to take its name), was to become an important stopover point for maritime traffic between Europe, Asia and the Americas in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, both to allow crews to rest and to take on water, wood and some food supplies. It also became important as a holding point for slaves (a large number of whom came from around thirty Guinean ethnic groups and subgroups). They were dispatched from Santiago, known then as Cape Verde island, to territories such as Brazil from the early sixteenth century onwards, since these territories, which had only recently been discovered and were little known, needed people to work and populate them.
But these slaves from the African coast, who set out from the archipelago where they had been dropped and where they had waited to board again, often came back as changed people both culturally and psychologically [Almada, 1999]. Thus exchanges between Brazil and the Cape Verde Islands took place early. Influences from Brazil were to be felt in areas as diverse as Cape Verde literature, music, dance, religion, beliefs, folk medicine and social life. We shall analyse these influences in turn, highlighting those that have been felt during the twentieth century and particularly those that are thought to be recent. We shall take as our starting point the 1922 Modernist cultural movement in Brazil of which Mario de Andrade, a mestico, was one of the leaders. But first I shall review some general points.
Given the multitude of links that grew up between the Cape Verde Islands and Brazil especially Bahia, the great coastal region that is in a way the mirror image of the agricultural landscape of the Guinea coast that supplied the slaves [Lobo, 1960], it is highly likely that the archipelago grew maize even before it appeared in Portugal [Ribeiro, 1962: 28]. The cereal was a crucial factor in the islands' colonization, since it was after its introduction that the colonization movement, which had previously been sporadic, "with highs and lows, and had not varied from the same feeble rate at which it had begun, started to take off" [Ribeiro, 1962: 31].
And so the Cape Verde Islands obtained maize from Brazil, but also tobacco, coffee, fruit trees and the medicine tree (purgueira), while Brazil, or more precisely Bahia, obtained from the islands the first oxen, mares, ewes, goats, coconuts, sugar cane, rice seeds, and of course many slaves [Ribeiro, 1960: 62]. All these animals, plants and slaves were exported from the islands but had come from elsewhere.
It is not surprising that a society evolved on the islands "paralleling the society in Bahia, on the other side of the Atlantic but in fact containing the same elements and characteristics that make them so alike even now, despite the differences in today's environment", as Ribeiro wrote in 1960 [p. 158]. Indeed, over and above these differences, there are many aspects common to the two territories. There is the important place of mixed-race people (a result of interbreeding of African slaves and European colonists in both tropical territories) in the development of both societies; indeed, mixed-race people were the main agents of the democratization of social life. However, mixed-race people stand for racial, social and cultural democratization in the islands more than in Brazil [Mariano, 1959], which can probably be linked to the fact that, unlike Cape Verde society, racial discrimination is sadly still a blot on Brazilian society.
Although Gilberto Freyre acknowledged some years ago that racial equality had not become either perfect or absolute with the abolition of slavery in 1888, he recalled the view of Bryce who said that in Brazil the distinction between races is more a distinction of position or class than colour [1972: 148], a view that he was not the only foreign visitor to express. "Even in the colonial period", Freyre wrote, "if a person was politically or socially important, no significance was attached to whether or not their past was unsullied by African blood -- he or she was considered to be white." He called this social aryanization. Gabriel Mariano [1959] reaches similar conclusions as far as the islands are concerned.
However, we must reiterate that, whereas the archipelago solved the problem of racial equality some time ago, Brazil is still wrestling with it. If we are to believe the evidence, this may be verified today in several sectors of the economy: black Brazilians still encounter difficulties at work. With regard to these differences between the two societies, a Brazilian actress who was visiting the archipelago said recently that she never thought she would come across a people [like the Capeverdians] who think black, white, yellow, brown, or `furta-cores' (`of changing colour') is all the same thing. It is very different in Brazil where to be black is to be disadvantaged. "You can't imagine what it's like to be black in Brazil" [Almeida, 2000: 8].
The reasons why relations between Portuguese and Africans (many of whom had set out from the islands) have had such different results (as well as many similarities) have to do with the small size of Cape Verde's territory. It was not suited to large-scale farming, with its attendant need for slave labour and its type of dehumanizing social relations [for details, see Mariano, 1959; Lobo, 1960; Correia e Silva, 1996].
Some of the slaves sent to Brazil occasionally had their own very advanced culture, others took with them a culture that was already the result of a mixture of Portuguese and African elements, since while they were waiting to be shipped to their "final destination" they had been taught the rudiments of the Christian religion and the Portuguese language or the island creole.
We should remember that the slaves were mostly from the Guinea seaboard, mandingas, jalofes, papeis, Sudanese negroes, perhaps some Moslem fulas, Ibo, Yoruba, Bantu [Freyre, 1933; Ribeiro, 1960; Correia e Silva, 1996]. It is useful to bear this in mind when looking at the issue of the relationship between these two tropical countries. But there is at least one considerable shadow darkening the picture, which was the probably unpredictable consequence of a political decision: the setting up in 1755 by the Marques de Pombal of the Great Para and Maranhao Company, whose excesses were for some time to plunge the archipelago into poverty and ruin.
Given the need for labour for its plantations and trading posts in Brazil, the Company was granted in 1757 the exclusive right to trade and navigation on the islands and the Guinea coast. Abusing this power it doubled the price of slaves, which made it hard for the farmers of Cape Verde to obtain labour and led to the end of cotton growing, the decline of the cloth (panos) industry and the harvesting of a type of lichen [Amaral, 1964], an important product that the island colony exported to Europe (Cadiz, Seville, Paris) for silk and fine muslin dyeing.
The Company's disastrous effect on the archipelago was further worsened by the great famine of 1773-6 [Correia e Silva, 1996]. Its consequences were felt not only in Africa and Brazil, but even in Portugal [Amaral, 1964].
Finally we should note the part played by the port on Sao Vicente island, Porto Grande, in the exploits of the Dutch in Brazil. It was a crucial location for the conquest of Olinda in 1629. And its development was considered at least twice in terms of commercial relations with Brazil -- in the nineteenth century as well as in the 1920s -- since it was the link in the chain of trade between the two countries, and of course this did not cease with Brazil's Independence and the end of the slavery.
Cultural influences
The history of many peoples whose lands were colonized (or occupied by foreigners) has demonstrated that, in certain circumstances, their culture has a tendency to mimic the colonizers' culture. It is perhaps in literature that this imitation is most evident. This it is generally recognized that the literature of the USA began by copying English literature until the nineteenth century when writers of the stature of Edgar Alan Poe, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Herman Melville, Walt Whitman and Emily Dickinson appeared [Brown, 1954]. Similarly the literature of Brazil was first a continuation of Portuguese literature until the emergence of writers like Jose Lins do Rego, Jorge Amado, Jorge de Lima, Erico Verissimo, Manuel Bandeira, among others, even though it is agreed that they had predecessors of some significance [see Freyre, 1972]. And literature was not alone; indeed it was aided in this task of establishing Brazilian identity by the sociological and anthropological work by Arthur Ramos or Gilberto Freyre.
Literature
The literature of the islands also illustrates what has just been said; for a long while it was a reflection of Portuguese literature. It was only from the mid 1930s that it identified a group of themes that.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-80393538/brazil-and-cape-verde.html
Nice article!
I saw a piece on African American lives ll, and Professor Peter Gomes said his family came from Cape Verde generations before.
I think he said in Cape Verde (with the one drop rule going the other way) he could've been classed as white.
I doubt that this profesor would be considered white in CV, although his family is from Brava which is traditionally seen as the "white" island.
It's true that in former days "money whitens" in cv just like in brazil. But ever since independence there has been a reafricanization and racial selfidentification has changed.
He's also got afram ancestry btw
Milestones in Peter Gomes's ancestry:
1782 Samuel Bailey, a prominent Quaker of Surrey county, Virginia, frees his 17 slaves, including Rose Bailey, Peter Gomes's great, great, great grandmother. Quakers were ardent abolitionists who condemned slavery for its violence and because it denied equal status to all human beings. By 1800 most Quakers had freed their slaves.
Around 1890 Manuel Lobo Gomes, grandfather of Peter Gomes, is born in Brava, Cape Verde. Later in life, his skills as a pilot for New England coaling ships stopping at Brava will lead him to immigrate to the U.S.
1923 Peter Lobo Gomes, Peter Gomes's father, leaves Brava, Cape Verde to reunite with his father who had previously immigrated to Plymouth, Massachusetts. Massachusetts was attractive to Cape Verdeans for its cranberry industry, and Peter Lobo Gomes uses his agricultural skills to cultivate cranberry bogs.
1942 Peter Gomes is born in Boston, Massachusetts.
singers of capeverdian descent
(click on post number to see all attachments in original size)
Football players
Nice pics. The third man from the left in the first row looks like my uncle.
Other athletes, mostly basket ball players, but first one is Nelson Evora, first capeverdian to win olympic gold
Nice pics. The third man from the left in the first row looks like my uncle.
You mean Patrick Vieira? he always reminds me of my cousin :)
Especially in this picture
You mean Patrick Vieira? he always reminds me of my cousin :)
Especially in this picture
No the guy to the left of his pic.
I saw a piece on African American lives ll, and Professor Peter Gomes said his family came from Cape Verde generations before.
I think he said in Cape Verde (with the one drop rule going the other way) he could've been classed as white.
Peter Gomes
http://www.unc.edu/news/pics/visiting/gomes_peter.jpg
Nope he would not be classified white in CV... He would be classified as a Cape Verdean/Criolo. IN CV people are not broken down by concrete races the same way it's done in the West. Things like mulatto, preto, branco, claro, brumeja, are just physical description of what a person looks like. Everyone is cape verdean/creole. When I lived in CV as a child I had no concept of race, I just knew everyone varied in looks. When I moved to the States at a young age is when I became aware of racial grouping.
People from the most populated island Santiago, where african influence (cultural & genetical) is biggest. Although the mixed population on the island has always been big as well. Because of interisland migration the proportion of native badius is decreasing.
Badiu is nowadays used for anyone who was born in Santiago and also the dialect spoken on that island but originally it was used for rural people living in the interior who are believed to be descendants of runaway slaves ("vadius").
These are all african looking i suppose
Also from Santiago, these people look more mixed/mulatto.
Actually difference between "african" and "mulatto looking" is pretty fluid and arbitrary. It all depends on which features you consider to be "african".
If you go by skintone only then you'll find darkskinned people with features (light eyes, straight hair etc.) that seem to derive from europe. At the same time you could find lightskinned people that otherwise have the same facial features (nose, mouth) as on mainland westafrica.
The last pic is a good illustration of difference in skintone between average mulatto look and average african look.
Btw, imo even the most african looking capeverdians usually still differ in some way from populations found in senegambia/guine.
Also from Santiago, these people look more mixed/mulatto.
Actually difference between "african" and "mulatto looking" is pretty fluid and arbitrary. It all depends on which features you consider to be "african".
If you go by skintone only then you'll find darkskinned people with features (light eyes, straight hair etc.) that seem to derive from europe. At the same time you could find lightskinned people that otherwise have the same facial features (nose, mouth) as on mainland westafrica.
The last pic is a good illustration of difference in skintone between average mulatto look and average african look.
Btw, imo even the most african looking capeverdians usually still differ in some way from populations found in senegambia/guine.
You have to remember Cape Verde was a pit stop for many ethnic groups into the Americas, some of the ones that would have stayed might have been from places further down or further west of senengambia.
You have to remember Cape Verde was a pit stop for many ethnic groups into the Americas, some of the ones that would have stayed might have been from places further down or further west of senengambia.
Slaves that passed through CV were almost exclusively from senegambia/upperguinea, formerly this area was known as "guinea of cape verde". It was an area for which the portuguese king had granted special trading rights to first colonists of cape verde. They were in fact not allowed to trade elsewhere! So very unlikely that they procured slaves from other parts of africa.
I've attached a map of the socalled guinea of cape verde, it basically streches from senegal to sierra leone. Also visible the lançados settlements set up by originally portuguese traders from cape verde who went native, their offspring were usually mulatto. They continued to be an influential trading class well into the 18th cent.
Taken from this book: Out of Africa: African influences in Atlantic Creoles (http://www.ling.su.se/forskning/avh/parkvall.html)
There is considerable controversy regarding whether Upper Guinea PC emerged on the mainland, and was later taken to the Cape Verde Islands, or whether it arose on the islands, only later to be taken to today’s Guinea-Bissau and Casamance. Silva (1957:31), Silva (1985:32, 47) and Carreira (1972:337-38) advocate an insular origin, whereas Scantamburlo (1981:12) and Santos (1979:22) are equally convinced that Cape Verde PC was taken to the islands from the mainland. However, the Cape Verdes would in any case have drawn its slaves from Senegal and Guinea-Bissau (Albuquerque & Santos [eds.] 1991:154-55), and regardless of where the common ancestor of Cape Verde PC and its mainland sister language emerged, the substrate material would be Atlantic and Mande languages.25 The major African languages of Guinea-Bissau are Balanta, Fulfulde, Manjaku and Papel (all Atlantic) and Mandinka (Mande). When the Portuguese first arrived, Mandinka is said to have been more widespread than it is today, and in addition, Temne (Atlantic) was used as a lingua franca (Rougé 1994:142).
As one would expect, the ethnolinguistic make-up of the Cape Verdean founder population seems to have been relatively similar. Barros (n d:38) mentions Balanta, Ejamat, Papel, Wolof and Bijago (all Atlantic) as the most important African languages in the early days of settlement of the Cape Verdes. Meintel (1984:23) adduces that 16th century archival evidence, blood group similarities, and onomastics all provide proof of the early presence of speakers of Wolof, Lebu, Fulfulde (Atlantic), Mandinka and Bambara (Mande). Lang (1994:3) suggests that the Atlanticspeakers dominated at first, but that the proportion of Mandes increased through time. For geographical reasons, it is hardly surprising that speakers of Lower Guinean or Bantu languages are not relevant
People from islands Fogo & Brava, most of US capeverdeans come from these islands, sometimes known as the "white" islands because the people there are generally more lightskinned than elsewhere.
EiCibaeño
2010-09-13, 00:05
People from islands Fogo & Brava, most of US capeverdeans come from these islands, sometimes known as the "white" islands because the people there are generally more lightskinned than elsewhere.
lol@the girl with rollers in her hair. Looks super Dominican just because of that.
I just realized this isn't the Dominican vs Cape Verde thread, but my comment stands as is.
Just wondering why their are a few mulatto Cabo Verdeans with blond hair and light eyes? Who are these people Oditous? Why is their hair very light yet they have dark skin?
rapunzels tower
2010-09-13, 00:15
Just wondering why their are a few mulatto Cabo Verdeans with blond hair and light eyes? Who are these people Oditous?
Descendants of Armand de Montrond, a Frenchman who was very biologically prolific (lmao) on the island Fogo in the late 1800s and there is a town called Cha das Caldeiras full of them. :lol:
I have a friend with the surname Montrond, actually. And she does have green eyes and her family is from Fogo.
Descendants of Armand de Montrond, a Frenchman who was very biologically prolific (lmao) on the island Fogo in the late 1800s and there is a town called Cha das Caldeiras full of them. :lol:
I have a friend with the surname Montrond, actually. And she does have green eyes and her family is from Fogo.
Wow. Its really amazing. I always wondered why the hell they were like that. Even the very dark ones, They are not as lighskin as those from Fogo but they still have lighter hair and eyes :confused:
Descendants of Armand de Montrond, a Frenchman who was very biologically prolific (lmao) on the island Fogo in the late 1800s and there is a town called Cha das Caldeiras full of them. :lol:
Actually that french guy was dark haired according to portraits (http://www.mindelo.info/forum/album_mod/upload/35ce2864555bc0097c80cd5d128d1859.jpg) :D
Anyways blondism among children and lighteyed capeverdians can be found on all islands not just fogo (although this island is most known for it)
I personally think it's mostly legacy from passing north european sailors (UK, netherlands, french).
rapunzels tower
2010-09-13, 00:36
There are a lot of green-eyed Dominicans as well. I met a woman from there the other day who had bright green eyes but otherwise, a mixture of African and European features.
Actually that french guy was dark haired according to portraits (http://www.mindelo.info/forum/album_mod/upload/35ce2864555bc0097c80cd5d128d1859.jpg) :D
Anyways blondism among children and lighteyed capeverdians can be found on all islands not just fogo (although this island is most known for it)
I personally think it's mostly legacy from passing north european sailors (UK, netherlands, french).
The man had 11 children his decedents are exaggerated. People seem to think every blonde in fogo is his decedent. lol:lol:
People from Santo Antão, northern islanders are also called sampadjudu.
Descendants of Armand de Montrond, a Frenchman who was very biologically prolific (lmao) on the island Fogo in the late 1800s and there is a town called Cha das Caldeiras full of them. :lol:
I have a friend with the surname Montrond, actually. And she does have green eyes and her family is from Fogo.
I have heard this story too and I know several Montronds who have jet black hair and dark eyes. I am hesitant to give this one Frenchman that much credit as a stud. My family is from Brava and either look "yellow" with blondish hair and East Indian with very black straight hair. Because fogo and brava are so tiny, you are going to find family names that are unique to that Island. If I hear Montrond, I know that they are from fogo. If I hear Lomba, I know that they are from Brava.
I have heard this story too and I know several Montronds who have jet black hair and dark eyes. I am hesitant to give this one Frenchman that much credit as a stud. My family is from Brava and either look "yellow" with blondish hair and East Indian with very black straight hair. Because fogo and brava are so tiny, you are going to find family names that are unique to that Island. If I hear Montrond, I know that they are from fogo. If I hear Lomba, I know that they are from Brava.
I don't think they are tiny in that sense considering those twol islands have produced one of the biggest if not biggest Cape Verdean populations. Montrond is related to fogo because the
guys story has been told many times, but most names in Cape Verde are all over the country.
That blondism does not last past childhood, very rare to find a Cape Verdean adult with "blond" hair. In fact I've lived Cape VErde and the U.S. and I have never met an adult Cape Verdean blond. There are some with lighter brown hair or dyed hair, but that's it.
I don't think they are tiny in that sense considering those twol islands have produced one of the biggest if not biggest Cape Verdean populations. Montrond is related to fogo because the
guys story has been told many times, but most names in Cape Verde are all over the country.
That blondism does not last past childhood, very rare to find a Cape Verdean adult with "blond" hair. In fact I've lived Cape VErde and the U.S. and I have never met an adult Cape Verdean blond. There are some with lighter brown hair or dyed hair, but that's it.
For the most part you are right on your observations. However, if you go to a place like Onset MA. where you can find pure blood lines from Brava, you will find adults with dirty blond hair. I find it amazing that two cv parents of bravanese ancestry can have jet black hair and have kids with blond hair that never turns darker than light brown.
As for the surnames, I was just pointing out that there are cv names that are typical Portuguese names like lopes, silva, montiero,etc., but there are others that are unique to one island, e.g montrond, lomba.
For the most part you are right on your observations. However, if you go to a place like Onset MA. where you can find pure blood lines from Brava, you will find adults with dirty blond hair. I find it amazing that two cv parents of bravanese ancestry can have jet black hair and have kids with blond hair that never turns darker than light brown.
As for the surnames, I was just pointing out that there are cv names that are typical Portuguese names like lopes, silva, montiero,etc., but there are others that are unique to one island, e.g montrond, lomba.
Great, can you give us some picture examples of adult Cape Verdeans with dirty blond hair, I would love to see these rare creatures.:D
rapunzels tower
2010-09-16, 23:06
Great, can you give us some picture examples of adult Cape Verdeans with dirty blond hair, I would love to see these rare creatures.:D
I've seen many with green or blue eyes but never any adult blondes.
I've seen many with green or blue eyes but never any adult blondes.
Agreed I've only seen women with dyed hair. A few of my cousins who where red-heads and blonds as children now have auburn type hair colors.
Light eyes is common for obvious reasons, but hair, no.
rapunzels tower
2010-09-16, 23:14
Agreed I've only seen women with dyed hair. A few of my cousins who where red-heads and blonds as children now have auburn type hair colors.
Light eyes is common for obvious reasons, but hair, no.
I don't know much of what that side of my family looks like other than my mom's grandfather and a few distant cousins since they all still live in cape verde but i don't know of any light eyes in my family. i've seen people i know who have them though.
I don't know much of what that side of my family looks like other than my mom's grandfather and a few distant cousins since they all still live in cape verde but i don't know of any light eyes in my family. i've seen people i know who have them though.
I think CV has lots of light eyed considering we are suppose to be mostly West African with sizeable Iberiean DNA %, from those two mixes I would think green and blue eyes should be rare, but it's not at all. I don't think it can really be blamed on passing seamen alone.
rapunzels tower
2010-09-16, 23:20
I think CV has lots of light eyed considering we are suppose to be mostly West African with sizeable Iberiean DNA %, from those two mixes I would think green and blue eyes should be rare, but it's not at all.
I don't know if this is true in reality (meaning in terms of DNA contribution) but the average CV I see here in the US, looks less than half black. I never thought of them as a mostly West African group, except for Santiago.
I don't know if this is true in reality (meaning in terms of DNA contribution) but the average CV I see here in the US, looks less than half black. I never thought of them as a mostly West African group, except for Santiago.
I don't think there is a less half black look, I think generational mixing produces some different results. Look at the Fish Market woman thread and if you see the examples of the varies types of AFricans that went to CV you will notice that some of the features can be misjudged as being euro influenced. I think your idea of what a mulatto should look like would be if a bantu had a child with a European and that's it.
For example the boy in the blue shirt for for all accounts and purposes is fully West AFrican(notice his features), So if he grew up and had a child with a European woman
You may say the child is not half black because of your idea of what black features should be.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.martinedstrom.se/blog/images/_MIE3153.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.martinedstrom.se/blog/index.php%3Fm%3D07%26y%3D08%26entry%3Dentry080722-004538&usg=__Fw2Z5lSBzee21P_P3KIjSVohlPo=&h=2848&w=4288&sz=4888&hl=en&start=153&zoom=1&tbnid=A-tH1O0DlCI8HM:&tbnh=163&tbnw=242&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsantiogo%2Bcape%2Bverde%26um%3D1%26hl %3Den%26biw%3D1071%26bih%3D495%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C6 647&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=378&ei=4JuSTOfOL8T_nQfwy5GeBw&oei=nZmSTMC6KobGlQe124GmCg&esq=3&page=19&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:153&tx=111&ty=87&biw=1071&bih=495
You can see what I'm talking about in the picture below:
Badios are a very close rep for the Africans that were sent to CV
See this video of Batuco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBtJnlDJefU&feature=related
People see small features they think Euro
another good example:
(http://runkel.photoshelter.com/image/I0000WSDHpsqDguY)
rapunzels tower
2010-09-16, 23:40
I do see your point. I think that an example of what I mean is that someone who looks like this (and this is a somewhat common CV American look) is probably more European than African. I don't doubt that there are Africans with narrower features.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs604.snc3/31806_1202135673670_1836931269_385488_4837341_n.jp g
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs404.snc4/46744_1543382658014_1038390577_1603524_1917930_n.j pg
As soon as I figure out how to post pics, I will post some cv's with light colored hair.
People from island São Vicente, because of beachlife, carneval, colonial architecture in Mindelo city and mountain encircled bay, it's sometimes called rio in miniature
Cape Verdeans in from Praia, Santiago:
Videos:
Cape Verdean Americans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFHflOF70g4
Cape Verdeans in Portugal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhqm-uupys8&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Dutch Cape Verdeans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyCxsHPN1gs
Particula
2011-05-03, 13:14
Are really most Cape verdians mixed?
I think that's exagerated most Cape verdians look
West African maybe only the elite is mixed there
Are really most Cape verdians mixed?
I think that's exagerated most Cape verdians look
West African maybe only the elite is mixed there
70%+ are mulattoes there is no elite mixed lol
Santiago(capital island) is the island with the "unmixed population" I would say maybe 1/3 (i could be wrong)of the island is completely unmixed. In my opinion there are no whites left on the islands. However basically the rest of islands are straight mulattoes. A recent DNA study of all islands was like 43% euro and 57% African.
Are really most Cape verdians mixed?
I think that's exagerated most Cape verdians look
West African maybe only the elite is mixed there
Most cape-verdeans are mixed the only island that is more "Black" is Santiago but even in Santiago most people have admixture.
Some of them could pass for Dominicans. Others would look out of place in DR.
Some of them could pass for Dominicans. Others would look out of place in DR.
The average mixed cv is probably 50/50, but is varies from both extremes. African end is senegambia exclusively. The African end in DR seem to be high Angola/Congo among others. And of course you guys have native.
We seem to have very high MENA (due to the high number of jew sent there)
DR has a whites(which we do not). I think the overlap among the two people is probably within skintone and hair texture ranges(found in mulattoes) other than that I find us to have different types of facial features.
A mulattoe DR would look more like a mulattoe Brazilian before a CV.
The average mixed cv is probably 50/50, but is varies from both extremes. African end is senegambia exclusively. The African end in DR seem to be high Angola/Congo among others. And of course you guys have native.
We seem to have very high MENA (due to the high number of jew sent there)
DR has a whites(which we do not). I think the overlap among the two people is probably within skintone and hair texture ranges(found in mulattoes) other than that I find us to have different types of facial features.
A mulattoe DR would look more like a mulattoe Brazilian before a CV.
Agreed, i think one way to distinguish is that D.R's tend to have flatter noses on average, like more cheek to cheek super flat Mbuti looking noses. Probably from the central african element. Cape Verdeans seem to have less instnaces of this. I Think D.R has alot of mid-east. But i'd say the D.R is probably like 50/50 Mideast + Real Euro, because we have alot of sepharidc and guanche influence, as well as recent middle eastern now. CApe verde is probably 80-90% Sephardic. So technically, should cape verdeans be hairier on average the n Dominicans? Just asking.
The average mixed cv is probably 50/50, but is varies from both extremes. African end is senegambia exclusively. The African end in DR seem to be high Angola/Congo among others. And of course you guys have native.
We seem to have very high MENA (due to the high number of jew sent there)
DR has a whites(which we do not). I think the overlap among the two people is probably within skintone and hair texture ranges(found in mulattoes) other than that I find us to have different types of facial features.
A mulattoe DR would look more like a mulattoe Brazilian before a CV.
Yeah, and don't forget Dominican ladies have better bodies on average. :rolleyes:
Yeah, and don't forget Dominican ladies have better bodies on average. :rolleyes:
LOL Well maybe not better. But Cape Verdeans are more Senengambian in Body. So they are naturally slimmer, so if a guy likes a more slim type of woman Cape verdeans might be a choice. But Dominican women are more voluptous even the ones who are NOT Fat.
I noticed that when i went to Pimentel the women there are not as curvy as women from San Francisco, perhaps Pimentel has more Senengambian influence, while San francisco is more central african.
But Stala, not to start teh booty debate again, but do you have pictures of cape verdean women with backsides like some of the Dominicans u seen on the forum?
Agreed, i think one way to distinguish is that D.R's tend to have flatter noses on average, like more cheek to cheek super flat Mbuti looking noses. Probably from the central african element. Cape Verdeans seem to have less instnaces of this. I Think D.R has alot of mid-east. But i'd say the D.R is probably like 50/50 Mideast + Real Euro, because we have alot of sepharidc and guanche influence, as well as recent middle eastern now. CApe verde is probably 80-90% Sephardic. So technically, should cape verdeans be hairier on average the n Dominicans? Just asking.
I think the African blood may nuetralize the hairness. Cape Verdean people are not really hairy with exception of those that have high Iberian lineage. As far as the flatter nose I've never noticed one over the other because I think mulattoes tend to have the same nose types ) a combo of both group. but what I noticed about CV(not all) many tend to have longer heads and faces and much darker than average mulattoes from groups form groups from central Africa Like Boece and the other have said some may overlap with DR and others don't.
I mean there all humans so there cannot be hugae differences.
---------- Post added 2011-05-03 at 18:59 ----------
LOL Well maybe not better. But Cape Verdeans are more Senengambian in Body. So they are naturally slimmer, so if a guy likes a more slim type of woman Cape verdeans might be a choice. But Dominican women are more voluptous even the ones who are NOT Fat.
I noticed that when i went to Pimentel the women there are not as curvy as women from San Francisco, perhaps Pimentel has more Senengambian influence, while San francisco is more central african.
But Stala, not to start teh booty debate again, but do you have pictures of cape verdean women with backsides like some of the Dominicans u seen on the forum?
I'm not going into booty ideology again.
I noticed that when i went to Pimentel the women there are not as curvy as women from San Francisco, perhaps Pimentel has more Senengambian influence, while San francisco is more central african.
Interesting fact.
Do you know what's the influence in the east?
LOL Well maybe not better. But Cape Verdeans are more Senengambian in Body. So they are naturally slimmer, so if a guy likes a more slim type of woman Cape verdeans might be a choice. But Dominican women are more voluptous even the ones who are NOT Fat.
I noticed that when i went to Pimentel the women there are not as curvy as women from San Francisco, perhaps Pimentel has more Senengambian influence, while San francisco is more central african.
But Stala, not to start teh booty debate again, but do you have pictures of cape verdean women with backsides like some of the Dominicans u seen on the forum?
I can provide pics but remember it's not the size of the booty that people attract to. It the proportion of waist to hip to booty a girl may have a big booty but if her waist it wide, it's a waste lol :evilgrin:.
On a side note my 23andme results are ready just got an email
---------- Post added 2011-05-03 at 19:09 ----------
LOL Well maybe not better. But Cape Verdeans are more Senengambian in Body. So they are naturally slimmer, so if a guy likes a more slim type of woman Cape verdeans might be a choice. But Dominican women are more voluptous even the ones who are NOT Fat.
I noticed that when i went to Pimentel the women there are not as curvy as women from San Francisco, perhaps Pimentel has more Senengambian influence, while San francisco is more central african.
But Stala, not to start teh booty debate again, but do you have pictures of cape verdean women with backsides like some of the Dominicans u seen on the forum?
Hey lemba can you help me understand this 23andme stuff?
I can provide pics but remember it's not the size of the booty that people attract to. It the proportion of waist to hip to booty a girl may have a big booty but if her waist it wide, it's a waste lol :evilgrin:.
On a side note my 23andme results are ready just got an email
---------- Post added 2011-05-03 at 19:09 ----------
Hey lemba can you help me understand this 23andme stuff?
Pm Me = )
Bonaoense
2011-05-03, 20:37
Stala:
What percentage of CV's would you say look something like this? (pred. euro mulatto/quadroon)
I would say that guy is pretty rare even though there are octoroons in CV
Victor Razuk? That dude doesn't look quadroon to me.
Another pic
Bonaoense
2011-05-03, 20:43
I would say that guy is pretty rare even though there are octoroons in CV
I mean Quadroons/predominantly Euro mulattos in general, not necessarily just his specific phenotype.
They're not common. Ilha do fogo (I think) is where they are more common
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPiOorZBVWYoOW3gkiPbKM6r-pIbIj78iIWaJlkl9vl8sVrGySXw ( Cape Verdean musician)
Stala:
What percentage of CV's would you say look something like this? (pred. euro mulatto/quadroon)
When I first saw the pic i thought the guy was white latino, however when I looked closer his features look more quadroon lean toward mulattoe. One thing skintone plays a huge role in this, because I think the Africans lineage in CV is darker skinned in general. That guy really not rare in the southern islands, he is lighter than the average light skinned cape verdean but the rest of his features are nothing overlly euro. His features look very mulatto
---------- Post added 2011-05-03 at 22:22 ----------
Victor Razuk? That dude doesn't look quadroon to me.
Another pic
This video will give you a good idea of the variations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyRoazS3weA
These are U.S. CVs I don't think either of those guys would be given a second look at the club. Although the first guy is lighter than the average CV lightskinned cv, the second is more common among U.S. CV
p.s. notice amber rose dancing on the side
I think as whole the mixed population is darker than DR, however in southern they are about the same minus the extreme white types.
This old video shows typical Cape verdeans from the U.S.
this group is mixture of islands:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjTmvX-iSLk
The video has bunda that you were looking for lol
I like using video because they give a more accurate idea. instead of of individual pics
This last video also includes some common Cv ranges
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thPFdfMWJcc
Bonaoense
2011-05-04, 01:35
How similar would you say Cape Verdeans are to Latin Americans (specifically the Hispanic Caribbean and Brazil) in terms of culture? Would you say Cape Verdeans are more similar to Brazilians, or more similar to other Portuguese speaking countries in Africa?
How similar would you say Cape Verdeans are to Latin Americans (specifically the Hispanic Caribbean and Brazil) in terms of culture? Would you say Cape Verdeans are more similar to Brazilians, or more similar to other Portuguese speaking countries in Africa?
I think Cape Verdean culture is unique but some aspects can be compared to to Caribbean(because we are island peope with similiar history). I think socially CV pretty much like LATAMs/Caribe it's a free society very very liberal.
In recent years Cv has been influened by brazil lots because of the media, import of product, many many students study in brazil and bring back the culture. A few years ago Brazilian pop culture was considered real cool in CV. For example telanovals, copeira, clothing, and music like brazilian funk.
However, for popular mainstream stuff I think CV and Angola are the basically the providers of music and entertainment for the rest of Portuguese AFrica and now to some extent french africa and the carib. Kizomba and Cabo Love are both sub-genres of zouk(caribbean) that became popular in LusAfrica in the 80"s is by far the most popular mainstream(club music) in all of Portuguese Africa. If you go to a CV or Angolan club chances are you will be dancing the pasada/kizomba(angolan) and listening a CV singer.
This is probably the most mainstream dance/kizomba which originated in Angola:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCuPBM6P5Kk&playnext=1&list=PL7C9A4CD71A36EC18 (watered down version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX7skOxzcaQ
Speaking of merging latinos and Portuguese Africa this song is actually the Angolan Kuduro and with Don Omar. Did this song get popular among latinos in the Carib:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zp1TbLFPp8&feature=related
Bonaoense
2011-05-04, 20:18
It's interesting that French Antilles music (zouk) became popular there.
And yeah, that song was a pretty big hit
It's interesting that French Antilles music (zouk) became popular there.
And yeah, that song was a pretty big hit
I'm not 100% sure but I think it has lots to do with CV and French African and Caribs in France. That community seemed to travel in the same social groups. Zouk seems to mesh well with a few CV music genres that's why it became popular and eventually led to the creation of all these regional sub-genres. Some of the most famouse zouk singers and producers are CV. Its pretty common to pick up a CD of a non CV singer and find at least 3 songs sung in Cape Verdean Creole as many of the producers are CV.
Luckybastard
2011-05-21, 17:59
Since when is Cape Verde in Africa:evilgrin:
Since when is Cape Verde in Africa:evilgrin:
Since Japan was in Asia:evilgrin: or PR in the Americas etc etc
sao antao
there is def a psuedo asain/khoisan look with some people from this island
this old man being the poster guy for it http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php?t=17424
This is exactly my point about some places in the carribean containing pseudo-native/asian features which are attributed to specific African ancestries, in our case in D.R that element combines with real indegenous, and can make ea person look alot more indegenous then what they really are. Most of those phenotypes i have seen in D.R minus the super San lookign man, he looks straight out of namimbia.
This is exactly my point about some places in the carribean containing pseudo-native/asian features which are attributed to specific African ancestries, in our case in D.R that element combines with real indegenous, and can make ea person look alot more indegenous then what they really are. Most of those phenotypes i have seen in D.R minus the super San lookign man, he looks straight out of namimbia.
These mandinkas are a good example of the african ancestry you are talking about:
Cape Verdeans from Boston Ma:
Bonaoense
2011-05-31, 20:04
Do Cape Verdean Americans usually identify more with other lusotanic people like Brazilians and even other latinos in general, or do they see themselves as more like "African" or old world
Do Cape Verdean Americans usually identify more with other lusotanic people like Brazilians and even other latinos in general, or do they see themselves as more like "African" or old world
That's a complicated question and it depends what aspect you are talking about. Because of Cape Verdean history I think we are chameleon llike and are able to identify with many groups for example it's pretty common to meet a Cape Verdean who speaks 3 languages outside of creolo. Around here when there is interaction btwn a CV and latino it's usually the Cape Verdean who speaking spanish. I think they identify with other lusa countries like Angola and Brazil because of similarities in culture, language, and pop-culture. If anything Cape Verdeans see themselves as a unique ethnic group within the African spectrum. There is lots of African pride, especially with the generations of independence and forward. I think Cape Verde is the first creole country/people, in a way it was the beginning of what happened in the new world as it was home to the first permanent European settlement in the tropics.
here if there are people from other nationalities that go to say a cv club it's usually Angolans.
There is not a huge interaction btwn Brazilians and Cape Verdeans in the states: because they are usually white country folks who are really fresh off the boat, they are not of the same types cape verdeans are used to from places like bahia, rio etc..., brazilians usually stick with each other and the same wit CVs
Can they pass in Cape Verde?
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php?t=18149
not common types especially the girl, but i personally know several persons who resemble the guy
Can they pass in Cape Verde?
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php?t=18149
Very easily, they are not the most common looking, but no one would question them:
If some of these people pass they can too:
not common types especially the girl, but i personally know several persons who resemble the guy
Yeah that guy looks like half my male cousins....the girl looks ubber latina, mostly because of her overall style. In the U.S. there are many folks who resemble them.
There is lots of variation with CVs basically virtually anyone can "pass".
These PR looking CV are more common among Brava and Fogo, but if there was a poster look for CV the girls in the last pic would be it...caramel/mocha skin tone and curly hair.
Mediterranean and African mixes tend to get a pseudo-horner or pseudo-east-indian look.
Mediterranean and African mixes tend to get a pseudo-horner or pseudo-east-indian look.
I think it's a combo of features from both ends for example singer mokalamity who is predom African it just maybe sahal more than anything:
for example the CV girl in the middle is probably non-mixed you throw in 1/4 or 1/2 med in there people will probably get a horner vibe.
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19972&d=1282398323
All the islands:
http://www.cvstars.com/albums/data/media/152/IMG_4657.JPG
Brockton, MA: Mostly people from fogo & Santiago reside in this city...
Maroon King
2011-12-09, 02:28
Brockton, MA: Mostly people from fogo & Santiago reside in this city...
Fogo so them ladies from there must be pure fyah :lol:
Cape Verdeans in Portugal:
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne6044b1a/6997507_gtTah.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3104a539/6997514_RtPAa.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9c04eed6/6997525_4vu3j.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N8f046378/6997563_zukG6.jpeghttp://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N59045aec/6997569_ajFW2.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nc005e8ee/7230414_Dmjmu.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne305b61d/7713490_zOIbW.jpeg
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Since when is Cape Verde in Africa:evilgrin:
What a dumb question :lol:
questioning the ''Africanness'' of a country that is a full member of the ECOWAS {Economic community of West African states}
Santiago:
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courtesy of Sapo
Santiago cont'd:
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Carnival 2012
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Very nice pics! Cape verdeans are never constant, goes to show that cape verde is very multi generational.
btw This is a good example of pseudo-native influences in Cape Verdeans, which is one of the components i tell people that we have in D.R, pseudo-native + real native = more native phenotypically.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zYZAvuw_jOw/T0I4TPWdmyI/AAAAAAAAAR8/kXTDPHT5wVg/s1600/prof+mindelo+15.jpeg
What a dumb question :lol:
questioning the ''Africanness'' of a country that is a full member of the ECOWAS {Economic community of West African states}
From your perspective: is somalia an Arabic country? it's member of the Arab league. And Eritrea? it's most likely the next candidate for the Arab League's enlargement
From your perspective: is somalia an Arabic country? it's member of the Arab league. And Eritrea? it's most likely the next candidate for the Arab League's enlargement
First off, do you know how many membership countries have? many many....
We are members of the Comunidade dos Países de Língua Portuguesa (CPLP) because we have things in common other Portuguesa sPeaking countries, that does not make us Portuguesa.
Since we have memberships in the following, I think it's safe to say we are considered an AFrican country:
African Development Bank Group (AfDB)
African Union (AU)
African, Caribbean, and Pacific Group of States (ACP)
Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS)
we are geograhically Africa the, majority of our DNA is African, and there was an independence movement to break from euro colinization.
If we wanted to be anything other than African we woud have stayed under Portuguese rule.
First off, do you know how many membership countries have? many many....
We are members of the Comunidade dos Países de Língua Portuguesa (CPLP) because we have things in common other Portuguesa sPeaking countries, that does not make Portuguesa.
Since we have memberships in the following, I think it's safe to say we are considered an AFrican country.
African Development Bank Group (AfDB)
African Union (AU)
African, Caribbean, and Pacific Group of States (ACP)
Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS)
we are geograhically Africa the, majority of our DNA is African, and there was an independence movement to break from euro colinization.
Good point, it makes his point seem invalid. I am not arguing cape verde's africaness, I'm asking him straightforward what he thinks in the case of Somalia and soon also Eritrea.
Good point, it makes his point seem invalid. I am not arguing cape verde's africaness, I'm asking him straightforward what he thinks in the case of Somalia and soon also Eritrea.
Well his point is valid since he was referring to a regional membership of an organization reserved for countries of certain regions. Basically you could not join ECOWAS unless you are located in West AFrica or a member of AU unless located in AFrica.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Arab league is not really regional, so you are comparing apple to oranges.
Well his point is valid since he was reffering to regional membership of an organization reserved for countries of certain regions. Basically you could not join ECOWAS unless you are located in West AFrica or a member of AU unless located in AFrica.
Not when you only take that one fact for granted, countries can have memberships to all sorts of organizations and unions, like you mentioned before yourself. These kind of ''regional organizations'' have the possibility to expand, the arab league was once an organization including only a handful of arabic-speaking countries, now it's not restricted an arabic speaking region anymore.
Not when you only take that one fact for granted, countries can have memberships to all sorts of organizations and unions, like you mentioned before yourself. These kind of ''regional organizations'' have the possibility to expand, the arab league was once an organization including only a handful of arabic-speaking countries, now it's not restricted an arabic speaking region anymore.
ECOWAS, unless you are located in West AFrica you are not a member....whether organizations expand their memberships that's a different story.
He answered the question:"since when is CV in AFrica?" and he replied they are full members of ECOWAS which is restricted to West AFricans.
ECOWAS, unless you are located in West AFrica you are not a member....whether organizations expand their memberships that's a different story.
He answered the question:"since when is CV in AFrica?" and he replied they are full members of ECOWAS which is restricted to West AFricans.
To West Africans? Just now you said AU:D
The Arab league was meant to be for arab countries only, now it changed, it's that simple.
To West Africans? Just now you said AU:D
The Arab league was meant to be for arab countries only, now it changed, it's that simple.
CV is in West Africa(ECOWAS), West AFrica is in AFrica(AU). Naturally we would be members of both.;)
CV is in West Africa(ECOWAS), West AFrica is in AFrica(AU). Naturally we would be members of both.;)
Well Cape Verde isn't one of the founding members, if we base cape verde's africaness on ECOWAS only, it means it wasn't west-african/african before they joined?:p What about Mauritania it's not a member of that same organization anymore(but is still part of the arab league btw), so for that reason it's all of a sudden not part of West-Africa anymore? There're many ways to play with that thought, you see?
Well Cape Verde isn't one of the founding members, if we base cape verde's africaness on ECOWAS only, it means it wasn't west-african/african before they joined?:p What about Mauritania it's not a member of that same organization anymore(but is still part of the arab league btw), so for that reason it's all of a sudden not part of West-Africa anymore? There're many ways to play with that thought, you see?
You are writing out of ignorance.
ECOWAS was founded in 1975, CV joined in 76...the reason being was CV gained independence right around that time and CV & Guinea Bissau were working to be one country... if you did research you would know that Guinea Bissau and CV share the same national hero, a Cape verdean, named Amilcar Cabral.
"In 1951, Portugal changed Cape Verde's status from a colony to an overseas province in an attempt to blunt growing nationalism. In 1956, Amilcar Cabral, and a group of fellow Cape Verdeans and Guineans organised (in Portuguese Guinea) the clandestine African Party for the Independence of Guinea and Cape Verde (PAIGC), which demanded improvement in economic, social and political conditions in Cape Verde and Portuguese Guinea and formed the basis of the two nations' independence movement. "
The ruling Party in Guinea Bissau is still called the African Party for the Independence of Guinea and Cape Verde (PAIGC)
The ruling Party in in CV is the African Party for the Independence of Cape Verde (PAICV)
I cannt rep Mauritania, but what I know is it's ruled by "arabs" and the folks who are "west african" or "blacks " have no Power. They may not feel West African, but they are Part of AU.
hey guys...relax
No one is getting excited....
der Hengst
2012-02-26, 21:14
they are blacker than afroamericans but less black than west africans, still fully black. so cmariexo is a black girl? i know she said she's part cape verdean. any other cape verdeans around? have you seen NHA FALA, the movie? it is BRILLIANT, and it stars a very beautiful west african actress and it is shot in kaboverde
You are writing out of ignorance.
ECOWAS was founded in 1975, CV joined in 76...the reason being was CV gained independence right around that time and CV & Guinea Bissau were working to be one country... if you did research you would know that Guinea Bissau and CV share the same national hero, a Cape verdean, name Amilcar Cabral.
"In 1951, Portugal changed Cape Verde's status from a colony to an overseas province in an attempt to blunt growing nationalism. In 1956, Amilcar Cabral, and a group of fellow Cape Verdeans and Guineans organised (in Portuguese Guinea) the clandestine African Party for the Independence of Guinea and Cape Verde (PAIGC), which demanded improvement in economic, social and political conditions in Cape Verde and Portuguese Guinea and formed the basis of the two nations' independence movement. "
The ruling Party in Guinea Bissau is still called the African Party for the Independence of Guinea and Cape Verde (PAIGC)
The ruling Party in in CV is the African Party for the Independence of Cape Verde (PAICV)
I cannt rep Mauritania, but what I know is it's ruled by "arabs" and the folks who are "west african" or "blacks " have no Power. They may not feel West African, but they are Part of AU.
And you out of stubborness...?:p
Lady, I told you already I don't doubt the country's africaness, you could have saved yourself the time proving that to me. Although it's always nice to learn something new , thank you for that. My point was that it's stupid to base the countrys' africaness only on the mere fact that it joined some organization. It doesn't make you more or less african. Morocco isn't part of the african union or any african organization afaik, but it's an african country.
Good night:)
they are blacker than afroamericans but less black than west africans, still fully black. so cmariexo is a black girl? i know she said she's part cape verdean. any other cape verdeans around? have you seen NHA FALA, the movie? it is BRILLIANT, and it stars a very beautiful west african actress and it is shot in kaboverde
Actually CV are not "blacker" than Aframs. I am CV, I've seen NHA FALA...I know the director, fLora, from guinea bissau personally. It was shot in CV, but 90% of the actors were continental Africans. The extras were a mixture of CVs and various other west africans.
The main actress is Senegalese actress Fatou N'Diaye
http://www3.pictures.fp.zimbio.com/3rd+Annual+Rome+International+Film+Festival+95M4dr O01OWl.jpg
Trailor(beautiful movie)
The statue that is the constant theme throughout the movie is our National hero Amilcar Cabral
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XV1xHIx8B8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsSSyuNnKtY
Other movies by Flora:
Udju Azul di Yonta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo2w63w1_Lg&feature=related)
Po Di Sangui (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTdKO6cl1lU&feature=related)
Mortu Nega (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFeMvsefSa0&feature=related)
cafman21
2012-02-26, 22:14
they are blacker than afroamericans but less black than west africans, still fully black. so cmariexo is a black girl? i know she said she's part cape verdean. any other cape verdeans around? have you seen NHA FALA, the movie? it is BRILLIANT, and it stars a very beautiful west african actress and it is shot in kaboverde
Not really. It's the opposite ;)
IMO Flora is the best African filmmaker....
him and fatou:
http://www.festivalcineport.com/2005/imagens/flora_gomes0503.jpg
cafman21
2012-02-26, 22:18
IMO Flora is the best African filmmaker....
True!!
True!!
i heart the theme song of Udju Azul di Yonta by super mama djombo
Well his point is valid since he was referring to a regional membership of an organization reserved for countries of certain regions. Basically you could not join ECOWAS unless you are located in West AFrica or a member of AU unless located in AFrica.
Not when you only take that one fact for granted, countries can have memberships to all sorts of organizations and unions, like you mentioned before yourself.
^west africa is not the only region Cape Verde is associating it self with.
Because of cultural/genetic/geographical reasons some capeverdians also consider it to be part of macronesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaronesia) ( atlantic island groups like canarias, madeira/acores) plus in 2005 Portugal started lobbying for EU membership for CV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verde%E2%80%93European_Union_relations). This iniative doesn't seem to have led to anything concrete yet. Nevertheless it still highlights cape verde's ambigious postion within west africa.
Fitting for its mixed (racial & cultural) origins and it's isolated yet strategically positioned archipelago geography, cape verde is sometimes said to be halfway between not only europe and west africa but also between the carribean and west africa and brazil and europe.
they are blacker than afroamericans but less black than west africans, still fully black.
don't think so; they have the same range but distribution of actual ssa % is different; i would say average (+50%) bracket for aframs is griffe-fully ssa while for cv's it's mulatto-griffe.
Check this thread for more insights
Capeverdians: who overlaps with them the most? (http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php?t=26018)
i heart the theme song of Udju Azul di Yonta by super mama djombo
they are my all time favourite GB band. Their discography is of awesome quality throughout. Is Dulce Neves the only band member who's still musically active?
they are my all time favourite GB band. Their discography is of awesome quality throughout. Is Dulce Neves the only band member who's still musically active?
They are my second...tabanka jdaz is my favorite:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDU9W4C7ZwE&feature=related
My grandmother is related to 2 of them...
Super Mama Djombo- still out there my fav song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUQK5AJnoww&feature=related
yeah i like Tabanka too as well as Rui Sangara, but musically SMD were on another level.
Are those relatives from your grandmother recent CV descendants in GB? I've been reading that during colonial period many fogo people went there. But if you count lancados as well CV migration to GB must date already from the 16th/17th cent.
yeah i like Tabanka too as well as Rui Sangara, but musically SMD were on another level.
Are those relatives from your grandmother recent CV descendants in GB? I've been reading that during colonial period many fogo people went there. But if you count lancados as well CV migration to GB must date already from the 16th/17th cent.
Tabanka Djaz just holds a special place from childhood. Their music merged traditional Gb with more new wave coladera type music.
My grandmother's sister moved there in the 30's or 40's, I think.
My grandmothers sister moved there in the 30's or 40's, I think.
which places did your family migrate to besides USA and GB? I've had relatives living in Senegal, Angola, Argentina,USA, Portugal,France,Luxembourg and Netherlands.
These pictures all taken in Luxembourg, CV community is quite big over there, they followed in footsteps of portuguese migrants who are a whopping 16% of the total population! But some of them also include CV's with portuguese passport.
I just recently visited there for the first time. Crazy how many Cv's you see on the streets, especially near the train station you hear people speaking crioulo everywhere. They are mostly barlavento. There's even a small town which has a nick name of little Sintanton not only because of the people but also the scenery :lol: I also went there. Good times.
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http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/MissCaboVerde__004.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/893.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/889.jpg
Mister G
2012-03-01, 03:27
Oditous, I did not know you were from CV, interesting. We have more things in common than i thought. LOL
which places did your family migrate to besides USA and GB? I've had relatives living in Senegal, Angola, Argentina,USA, Portugal,France,Luxembourg and Netherlands.
These pictures all taken in Luxembourg, CV community is quite big over there, they followed in footsteps of portuguese migrants who are a whopping 16% of the total population! But some of them also include CV's with portuguese passport.
I just recently visited there for the first time. Crazy how many Cv's you see on the streets, especially near the train station you hear people speaking crioulo everywhere. They are mostly barlavento. There's even a small town which has a nick name of little Sintanton not only because of the people but also the scenery :lol: I also went there. Good times.
I have relatives in brazil, Cuba, Senegal, Angola, st tome & principe, Spain, canary islands, England, Portugal, France, holland, Italy, Spain, sweden, switzerland, Norway, Canada ....these are the ones that are coming up off the top of my head. I'm sure the list is longer. Never mind the places some of my relatives have lived throughout their lives i.e. Timor etc...
---------- Post added 2012-03-01 at 04:00 ----------
Oditous, I did not know you were from CV, interesting. We have more things in common than i thought. LOL
Are you Cv?
^i probably also forgot a few, but basically all over the place :D
I was thinking maybe people from fogo would have focused more on migrating to the USA leaving out some destinations that are popular with other cv's. I think the bulk of them did end up in USA while for barlavento people it's europe.
^i probably also forgot a few, but basically all over the place :D
I was thinking maybe people from fogo would have focused more on migrating to the USA leaving out some destinations that are popular with other cv's. I think the bulk of them did end up in USA while for barlavento people it's europe.
I would say most ended up in americas but they are all over I have quite a few cousin who ended up in the USA via brazil...they were born and raised in brazil and later immigrated to USA so they had two culture shocks... I find this is quite a common thing among CV.
I would say most ended up in americas but they are all over I have quite a few cousin who ended up in the USA via brazil...they were born and raised in brazil and later immigrated to USA so they had two culture shocks... I find this is quite a common thing among CV.
Indeed, i visited my aunt in luxembourg, she has lived for like twenty years in Luanda, but she got back to CV when civil war was at its worst and then moved on to Lux. I think many CV's who originally migrated to mainland africa have since then moved on to either europe or US. But with recent economical boom in angola it has gotten interesting again for cv's. A young cousin of mine has just started working there.
More pics from luxembourg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/Noite3Colors150.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/NoiteCaboVerdianaNoAmericaLatina005.jpg
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http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/378cordas.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/426.jpg
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http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/ConcertoGraceEvora024.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/Noite3Colors000.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/Noite3Colors010.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/Noite3Colors131.jpg
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http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/Noite3Colors143.jpg
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http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/Noite3Colors156.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/oditous3/Cabo%20Verde/Noite3Colors182.jpg
Mindel Fantasy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecnmRCLoDnk&feature=related)
Praia, Santiago:
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0083.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0091.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0092.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0098.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0112.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0113.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0115.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0117.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0118.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0131.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0169.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0193.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0195.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0196.jpg
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http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0244.jpg
http://www.editur.cv/fotos/Empreendimentos/praiatowers/g/_DSC0246.jpg
http://www.cvstars.com/albums/data/media/60/tantric_capricorn_party_2010_37.jpg
http://www.cvstars.com/albums/data/media/60/tantric_capricorn_party_2010_41.jpg
http://www.cvstars.com/albums/data/media/60/tantric_capricorn_party_2010_13.jpg
inquisitive
2012-04-14, 19:26
Stala, you reside in Boston?
used to, im on nantucket now. ---------- Post added 2012-04-14 at 18:49 ----------
Djar Fogo
IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/381835_315704218474364_100001043647077_982321_7157 03157_n.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.capeverde.co.uk/sharedresources/photolibrary/destinations/cape-verde/destination/fogo/people/web/fogo-people-10~Expanded.jpg
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000ZYO5MCpMvw4/s/600/600/12873A-31C-ex12-55.jpg
http://topicos123.com/F81.jpg
http://topicos123.com/FOTOS/Chan5.jpg
http://topicos123.com/FOTOS/MosteirosFestaGirls.jpg
http://www.capeverderentalsdirect.com/images/people2.jpg
http://cdnstatic-9.mydestination.com/capeverde/Pictures/HomePageGallery/20101115-152307.Full.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_y0m9T9L3FJk/S7oVmP3B_iI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/Gc8pDJjXZbs/s320/Picture+61.jpg
http://cvwa.homestead.com/2007_trip_to_cverde_113.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3396/3289452886_f2573c0118_z.jpg?zz=1
http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1074/3265186968_bcbcae6a8d_z.jpg?zz=1
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JnQZ8_pvNww/TGP0KBzxbzI/AAAAAAAABqk/quKBViK3okY/s1600/DSC00055.JPG
http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media//44/5044-004-03AB00BA.gif
President Pedro Verona Rodrigues Pires
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Pedro_Verona_Rodrigues_Pires.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Gossiping.jpg
http://www.fiba.com/images/web/Events/08/olymQual/men/WALL/_original/cpv_1024.jpg
http://modelmayhm-4.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/081223/23/4951de78c2d92.jpg
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/08/17/Cape_Verde__1219017586_5326-1.jpg
http://www.ethnicnewz.org/files/images/local14a.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Cape_verde_kids.jpg
http://capeverdeansofsoutherncal.org/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Cape_Verdean_Picnic_Crowne_Pointe_7_25_09_San_Dieg o_CA_031.210170811.JPG
http://www.pahte.com/images/02.06.26_Cabo_Verde._Fogo._inside_crater_kids.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/113/l_8445a99dafc0c9c91a07e989c0552f32.jpg
http://www.glp.at/img/artist056_01big.jpg
http://ocvf.com/photo_gallery/P1010100.JPG
^^^^^
That profile on Cape Verdian sounds like rubbish from that of an an apologist of European oppression and exploitation of African people..SMH...at romantacing the one sided abusive relationship between Potuguese slave holders and the African slave women they tortured ....While Portuguese slave drivers may have raped some of the Cape Verdian women they owned it's highly unilikey a significant amount of mariages occured from such unions..in particular the fact Portuguese only made up like 5% of Cape Verdean population(unless pologymy was big back then I don't see how that's possible) and I imagine the Portuguese like all slave holders from that period had a false sense of white supremecity over Afro Cape Verdeans which would also be an obstacle to such marriages taken place on a large scale.. ---------- Post added 2012-04-14 at 19:47 ----------
^^^^^
That profile on Cape Verdian sounds like rubbish from that of an an apologist of European oppression and exploitation of African people..SMH...at romantacing the one sided abusive relationship between Potuguese slave holders and the African slave women they tortured ....While Portuguese slave drivers may have raped some of the Cape Verdian women they owned it's highly unilikey a significant amount of mariages occured from such unions..in particular the fact Portuguese only made up like 5% of Cape Verdean population(unless pologymy was big back then I don't see how that's possible) and I imagine the Portuguese like all slave holders from that period had a false sense of white supremecity over Afro Cape Verdeans which would also be an obstacle to such marriages taken place on a large scale.. ---------- Post added 2012-04-14 at 19:47 ----------
That description is very simplistic it was probably written by a non-cape verdean for wiki...so you may want to take it with a grain of salt.
I have no dought that rapes of the type in the U.S. happened, however, You may want to keep in mind the dynamics of CV was different from the New World.
Many, if not most of the non-African settlers were outcasts from their respective countries, meaning they were never going back to where they came from, so marrying an African woman was not as taboo as it would have been in the New World.
There were many people who were arrived in CV as free blacks or contracted workers.
Men white or free black if they wanted to marry a woman who was slave could by her freedom. For example in
"1701 A royal letter directs that slave owners should cease to obstruct marriages between black freemen and slave women, which they had been doing by setting exorbitant prices for women's freedom Carreira "
Marrying African women and starting families with them was common, one because there were no Euro women and there were lower numbers of African men.
Pologmy was common practice....t usually a wealthy man would marry his first wife in the church, but have multiple wives that he would house feed for the rest of their lives. There are still remenants of pologmy on the islands now.
Portuguese colonialism was harsh(to put it lightly), however whites never passed 1st generation being white.
I'm not sure where you get the 5%? The demographics of CV changed alot during its 500 year history, for example at differenct points in history there flows settlers from both Africa Europe etc. I think the genetics of Cape Verde today probably is probably different from the past. i.e. there were times that half the population would be wiped out through starvation....so you can imagine the genetics that would disappear forever.
Cape Verde was a hub...a trading post....so many thing happened that would not have passed in other colonies in the new world. For example, many many slaves, when they arrived in CV simply escaped moved to the mountains in CV never to be seen again. People didn't remain slaves for centuries they way did in the U.S. for example...some bought their freedom, their freedom was bought from free blacks, or their masters perished in famines, or they simply escaped.
inquisitive
2012-04-15, 20:46
Stala, is it fair to say Verdeans are Latin Americans?
Stala, is it fair to say Verdeans are Latin Americans?
No...:lol:
First thing, it's located in West Africa
That description is very simplistic it was probably written by a non-cape verdean for wiki...so you may want to take it with a grain of salt.
I have no dought that rapes of the type in the U.S. happened, however, You may want to keep in mind the dynamics of CV was different from the New World.
Many, if not most of the non-African settlers were outcasts from their respective countries, meaning they were never going back to where they came from, so marrying an African woman was not as taboo as it would have been in the New World.
There were many people who were arrived in CV as free blacks or contracted workers.
Men white or free black if they wanted to marry a woman who was slave could by her freedom. For example in
"1701 A royal letter directs that slave owners should cease to obstruct marriages between black freemen and slave women, which they had been doing by setting exorbitant prices for women's freedom Carreira "
Marrying African women and starting families with them was common, one because there were no Euro women and there were lower numbers of African men.
Pologmy was common practice....t usually a wealthy man would marry his first wife in the church, but have multiple wives that he would house feed for the rest of their lives. There are still remenants of pologmy on the islands now.
Portuguese colonialism was harsh(to put it lightly), however whites never passed 1st generation being white.
I'm not sure where you get the 5%? The demographics of CV changed alot during its 500 year history, for example at differenct points in history there flows settlers from both Africa Europe etc. I think the genetics of Cape Verde today probably is probably different from the past. i.e. there were times that half the population would be wiped out through starvation....so you can imagine the genetics that would disappear forever.
Cape Verde was a hub...a trading post....so many thing happened that would not have passed in other colonies in the new world. For example, many many slaves, when they arrived in CV simply escaped moved to the mountains in CV never to be seen again. People didn't remain slaves for centuries they way did in the U.S. for example...some bought their freedom, their freedom was bought from free blacks, or their masters perished in famines, or they simply escaped.
Nah I imagine rape was even more common practice in Cape Verde cause Spanish/Portugues and French were known to be so horny little devils whom used rape as a form of torture against the native women of color of their colonies..where as some while slave keeprs in the US did rape their slaves it was viewed more taboo to have children with them....
Are you Cape Verdian? I don't see how the white colonist allegedely being outcaste is relevant to your account of Cape Verde's history....Many white colonist in Australia were outcate whom never intended to return back to their home country too but they still didn't mix themselves out of existance with the local Aboriginal population of color.Am I to blieve Portuese slave holders and colonist had less of a white supermist attidude toward their black slaves than their peers in Australia and all Europan colonies had toward the people of color they exploited and oppressed?.....I didn't dispute some marriages occured between whitemen and Cape Verdian slave women I just find it hard to believe it happen on the scale some are suggesting...Furthermore it makes little since for Portugual to start an colony and only send Portuguese men there but not their women? When Europeans send their citizens to their coloies to stay permanently it's' usually to estabalish an white/ elite populations to look after their interest..marying local black women makes little sense..Furthermroe I find it hard to believe that the Portuguese imported signicantly more African female slaves than men considering in European slavery was grueling and backbreaking work which reequeired the strenght of men...I'm not buying your suggesting that African men were in short supply so Cape Verdian women settled to be 2nd or 3rd wives of their polgymous slave mastes for this reason.
Harsh is an understatement..I remember watching a doc on Portuguese slavery in Brazil....To make a long story 2 Portuguese slave holding aristocacs were having a conversaton about a parciular slave...One complimented the other on the huge breast of one of his African fenale slaves..So the slave holding swine responded by chopping off her breast and handed to his colleague as a sick joke....Yet these animals are whom you want to paint as not so bad and lovers of their black slaves.:sick:
An Cape Verdian poster on another thread(from another forum) on Cape Verdian people made the statement that Portuguese never made up more than 5% of Cape Verdia population..Since no one disputed him/her I assumed it to be factual...Either way it's most likely true since the Portugues/white population of modern Cape Verde is so tiny.
Trust that nothing happend on that little irrelevant island that hasn't been seen or done on the slave colonies of the West...I had no idea that Cape Verde went through such a major famine..Sorry to hear that...This may explain why their population is so small.today.That and I suspect alot of Cape Verdeans were sent to Portugal's other colony in the West(Brazil)
Nah I imagine rape was even more common practice in Cape Verde cause Spanish/Portugues and French were known to be so horny little devils whom used rape as a form of torture against the native women of color of their colonies..where as some while slave keeprs in the US did rape their slaves it was viewed more taboo to have children with them....
I like I said it definately happened, however I also told you marriage/relationships were common, I explained to you why. You cannot just assume because you have some preconcieved notion of what CV looked like in the last 500 years. There were lot's of marriages btwn whites, jews, and african women(who were not slaves) in Guinea Bissau.
Are you Cape Verdian? I don't see how the white colonist allegedely being outcaste is relevant to your account of Cape Verde's history....Many white colonist in Australia were outcate whom never intended to return back to their home country too but they still didn't mix themselves out of existance with the local Aboriginal population of color.
This is comparing apples and oranges. Yes I'm telling you settlers mixed themselves out of existence.
Am I to blieve Portuese slave holders and colonist had less of a white supermist attidude toward their black slaves than their peers in Australia and all Europan colonies had toward the people of color they exploited and oppressed?.....I didn't dispute some marriages occured between whitemen and Cape Verdian slave women I just find it hard to believe it happen on the scale some are suggesting...Furthermore it makes little since for Portugual to start an colony and only send Portuguese men there but not their women?
Your mixing emotions with facts I'm sure they were as white supermist as hell. That does not mean they did not marry and hold relationship with these women free and slaves. I told you to take that article with a grain of salt.
When Europeans send their citizens to their coloies to stay permanently it's' usually to estabalish an white/ elite populations to look after their interest..marying local black women makes little sense..Furthermroe I find it hard to believe that the Portuguese imported signicantly more African female slaves than men considering in European slavery was grueling and backbreaking work which reequeired the strenght of men...I'm not buying your suggesting that African men were in short supply so Cape Verdian women settled to be 2nd or 3rd wives of their polgymous slave mastes for this reason.
there were no non African settler women. And there was much less men than women. The Mtdna of CV is like is close to 100% Senegambian while only 15 or 17%african Ydna. I wouldn't be suprised if in CV's 500 year history less than 100 white women settled there.
Harsh is an understatement..I remember watching a doc on Portuguese slavery in Brazil....To make a long story 2 Portuguese slave holding aristocacs were having a conversaton about a parciular slave...One complimented the other on the huge breast of one of his African fenale slaves..So the slave holding swine responded by chopping off her breast and handed to his colleague as a sick joke....Yet these animals are whom you want to paint as not so bad and lovers of their black slaves.:sick:
Cape Verde was never a society where white settlers outnumbered slaves.....blacks and mulattoes always vasitly outnumbered whites. There was never an established white elite group who intermarried with each other. Never happened.
An Cape Verdian poster on another thread(from another forum) on Cape Verdian people made the statement that Portuguese never made up more than 5% of Cape Verdia population..Since no one disputed him/her I assumed it to be factual...Either way it's most likely true since the Portugues/white population of modern Cape Verde is so tiny.
At one time there was probably never more than 5-10% white people as I said before they never went past 1 generation.
Trust that nothing happend on that little irrelevant island that hasn't been seen or done on the slave colonies of the West...I had no idea that Cape Verde went through such a major famine..Sorry to hear that...This may explain why their population is so small.today.That and I suspect alot of Cape Verdeans were sent to Portugal's other colony in the West(Brazil)
Actually it's 10 irrelevent islands. I think you need to do more research on CV before you make blanket statements and don't mix emotion with facts we all know who the villian of the slave trade was, however facts are facts.
I stand by statement CV was was a slave port so the dynamics were often different.
there are about half million, outside of the country conservative estimates are about million, although I think there is like million CVs and there decendents in the States alone.
Okalla, slavery is alot more dynamic then you are seeing it , it was not so plain and simple as you make it seem. The torture case are very well known, but its also know that this wasn'pt the norm. In places where this was very common you had some real strong revolutoin like Haiti's revolution. In places where there was more common ground between master nad slave or if most people where just free, no rebellions happened in a large degree (d.r , cape verde, some of the small antillies in the carribean) etc. What she means by outcast is that cape verde is heavily sephardic jewish and berber mixed on their "white" side and this is no coincidence, this was because these where unwanted people in Iberia, Cape Verde turned into an island of unwanted off-whites non-whites to the spaniards, and both forced and free marriage happened. I'm sure it was mostly free marriage becaues theres no way you can end up with such a HUGE mulatto population without alot of consent. IN fact there are no non-consentual mulatto populations on the planet. See the caes of Afro-americans had alot less consent and alot more rape hence why most Afram's are Griffe's. Your details make no sense, by your account the portugese ONLY imported African females into cape verde and had a 300 year forced orgy to create today's population. So where are the Afro (Black) cape verdean men? Did they just dissapear, who where they fucking? its hard to beleive that with all the males imported into cape verde this "rape" phenomenon by Portugese expats happened so often.
I dont think anyone is beign comformist, its the plain truth. I have read first hadn accounts of ex slaves scuh as "cimarron" "maroon" by this Afrocuban guy who was one of the last recorded slaves in the new world, lived till the 1960s and wrote an autobiography, Slavery is SUPER dynamic, from tortorous white slave masters, to slave masters who were nice, to even black and mulatto slave masters, you can very easily verify that in Lousiana some slave masters where black and mulatto for example, in the Lousiana slave voyages database.
There are cases of both kinds of slave masters, if slavery was so plain and one-sided people would not have been taking that shit for that long, until the late 1800s, please, my people rebell! The only reason why slavery was able to stay that long in the americas is because there was a mixed bag of slave masters, they werent all the same, and allowed some cultural expressoins like dancing/singing/drumming on Sunday's, and on the hundreds of Catholic holidays. Not saying it was fun , but you have to really be very analytical when taling about slavery, being onesided will get you nowhere, i HIGHLY recomend you get acquainated to people who where real ex slaves, and get first hand accounts from slave masters grand-childrne telling stories and very importantly from ex-slaves themselves, some of their kids and grandkids are still alive all over latin america, and its a very mixed bag of stories.
as lemba said most of the white" settlers did not go to cape verde to be slave owners they were exiles and unwanted jews. (that'not to say they didn't become involved in it) single men were pretty much dumped there by force and that's how you get the relationships/marriages.
This is what I'm talking about:
"1835 (March) 225 deportees from Sao Miguel in the Azores stage a protest in Praia against Portuguese authorities. The protesters sail away to Brava to escape authorities. "
"In the first eighty years of the nineteenth century 2,570 European degredados disembarked on the islands. These included convicted murderers, church robbers, thieves, counterfeiters as well as alcoholics, deserters, vagrants, prostitutes and political and religious offenders. Antonio Carreira reports that 2,487 men and 83 women were landed in Cape Verde as degredados in this period. Note the insignificant number of women. These persons were sentenced to banishment in Cape Verde and were distributed throughout the archipelago to avoid the development of any concentration on Santiago. Eventually, whites helped these degredados from Portugal for reasons of "esprit de couleur". Most eventually rehabilitated themselves and became useful members of Cape Verdean society. Most never returned to Portugal. "
"1498 Columbus stops in Cape Verde for provisions on his third voyage to America. During the same period the expulsion of Jews from Iberia began. Some would eventually migrate to Cape Verde. "
" 1536 Introduction of the Holy Inquisition and the Jesuit religious order in Portugal. Large scale persecution of Jews and "New Christians" begins. In 1538 leading citizens of Cape Verde petitioned the king in a vain attempt to establish the Inquisition in Cape Verde. They charged that some two hundred so-called "New Christians" (Christianized Jew or ladinos) were living with Africans on the Coast in violation of Royal edicts. One motivation for the strong feelings may have been that these traders or "lan‡ados" were successfully competing with Cape Verde-based business interests and were beyond the regulatory hand of the Crown. "
"In Iberia the Reconquista movement was growing in its mission to recover Catholic lands from the Muslim Moors who had first arrived in the 8th century. Jews may have first arrived far earlier during the time of the Phoenicians and Romans. Nevertheless, Maghrebi Jews were key allies of the Moors and centuries-long residents of Iberia. Probably as early as 1480 one we may find the beginnings of the Spanish Inquisition and expulsion of Jews. It was however in 1492 that the Spanish Inquisition emerged in its fullest expression of anti-Semitism. This social pathology quickly spread to neighboring Portugal where King João II and especially Manuel I in 1496, decided to exile thousands of Jews to São Tomé, Príncipe, and Cape Verde. The numbers expelled at this time were so great that the term "Portuguese" almost implied those of Jewish origin. Those who were not expelled were converted by force or even executed."
"During the early 19th century, Jews also came to settle in Santo Antão where there are still traces of their influx in the name of the village of Sinagoga, located on the north coast between Riberia Grande and Janela, and in the Jewish cemetery at the town of Ponta da Sol. The family names of Cohn (priest) and Wahnon are prominent in Santo Antao. Other Jewish settlers such as the Ben Oliel family migrated to Boa Vista, trading in salt, hides, and slaves. Jewish-derived surnames can be found amongst the inhabitants of the islands. Such names can include Auday, Benros, Ben David, Cohn, DaGama, and Seruya. A final chapter of Jewish history in Cape Verde took place in the 1850s when Moroccan Jews arrived, especially in Boa Vista and Maio for the hide trade.[21]"
outside of portuguese last names the next most common are moroccan jewish.
According to Dr. Marysa Baptista as much as 57% of the male settlers early in CV history may have been jews exiles.
I like I said it definately happened, however I also told you marriage/relationships were common, I explained to you why. You cannot just assume because you have some preconcieved notion of what CV looked like in the last 500 years. There were lot's of marriages btwn whites, jews, and african women(who were not slaves) in Guinea Bissau.
This is comparing apples and oranges. Yes I'm telling you settlers mixed themselves out of existence.
Your mixing emotions with facts I'm sure they were as white supermist as hell. That does not mean they did not marry and hold relationship with these women free and slaves. I told you to take that article with a grain of salt.
there were no non African settler women. And there was much less men than women. The Mtdna of CV is like is close to 100% Senegambian while only 15 or 17%african Ydna. I wouldn't be suprised if in CV's 500 year history less than 100 white women settled there.
Cape Verde was never a society where white settlers outnumbered slaves.....blacks and mulattoes always vasitly outnumbered whites. There was never an established white elite group who intermarried with each other. Never happened.
At one time there was probably never more than 5-10% white people as I said before they never went past 1 generation.
Actually it's 10 irrelevent islands. I think you need to do more research on CV before you make blanket statements and don't mix emotion with facts we all know who the villian of the slave trade was, however facts are facts.
I stand by statement CV was was a slave port so the dynamics were often different.
there are about half million, outside of the country conservative estimates are about million, although I think there is like million CVs and there decendents in the States alone.
-What are you basing that the root of my objection to your historical account of Cape Verde population has anything to do with preconcievd notions on how I think looked 5000 yrs ago?Popst proof that interacial marriages were the norm between white slave holders or colonist and African slave women...I find that hard to believe....Who said I
-Prove it then?
_Really?..I don't know what type of white supremist you have run across but I don't many whom are willing to marry, liberate negro women muchless breed themselves out of existance..If you would've said Europan men came to Cape Verde knocked up a few Cape Verdian women then went back home and wifed up an white girl that would be more believeable but for you to suggest they stayed and lived happily ever after with their slave lovers is an insult to my intelligiance.
_you just contradiced...1st you said no non African women then you admit that very few European women settlered there which is it? It doesn't make sense to import more women slaves than men to a slave colony so I suspect you are making up the ratioa of women to men too.
-that's my point..If whites were vastly outnumbered by blacks how is it that they manage to marry and spread their seed all over the Island in such significant numbers.
-I thought you said the 5% figure was wrong:confused:? Why dispute that estimate if you aint even sure yourself?
-What about CV being a slave port would incline European slave holders to love,marry, and free theri slaves which non slave porr and other slave ports were lacking where this didnt occur as frequently as it allegedly occured in the Cv.
-Yeah I've read there are more Cape Verdians in the US than Cape Verdian but even by your estimates that's still an tiny populaiton.
---------- Post added 2012-04-16 at 01:03 ----------
Okalla, slavery is alot more dynamic then you are seeing it , it was not so plain and simple as you make it seem. The torture case are very well known, but its also know that this wasn'pt the norm. In places where this was very common you had some real strong revolutoin like Haiti's revolution. In places where there was more common ground between master nad slave or if most people where just free, no rebellions happened in a large degree (d.r , cape verde, some of the small antillies in the carribean) etc. What she means by outcast is that cape verde is heavily sephardic jewish and berber mixed on their "white" side and this is no coincidence, this was because these where unwanted people in Iberia, Cape Verde turned into an island of unwanted off-whites non-whites to the spaniards, and both forced and free marriage happened. I'm sure it was mostly free marriage becaues theres no way you can end up with such a HUGE mulatto population without alot of consent. IN fact there are no non-consentual mulatto populations on the planet. See the caes of Afro-americans had alot less consent and alot more rape hence why most Afram's are Griffe's. Your details make no sense, by your account the portugese ONLY imported African females into cape verde and had a 300 year forced orgy to create today's population. So where are the Afro (Black) cape verdean men? Did they just dissapear, who where they fucking? its hard to beleive that with all the males imported into cape verde this "rape" phenomenon by Portugese expats happened so often.
I dont think anyone is beign comformist, its the plain truth. I have read first hadn accounts of ex slaves scuh as "cimarron" "maroon" by this Afrocuban guy who was one of the last recorded slaves in the new world, lived till the 1960s and wrote an autobiography, Slavery is SUPER dynamic, from tortorous white slave masters, to slave masters who were nice, to even black and mulatto slave masters, you can very easily verify that in Lousiana some slave masters where black and mulatto for example, in the Lousiana slave voyages database.
There are cases of both kinds of slave masters, if slavery was so plain and one-sided people would not have been taking that shit for that long, until the late 1800s, please, my people rebell! The only reason why slavery was able to stay that long in the americas is because there was a mixed bag of slave masters, they werent all the same, and allowed some cultural expressoins like dancing/singing/drumming on Sunday's, and on the hundreds of Catholic holidays. Not saying it was fun , but you have to really be very analytical when taling about slavery, being onesided will get you nowhere, i HIGHLY recomend you get acquainated to people who where real ex slaves, and get first hand accounts from slave masters grand-childrne telling stories and very importantly from ex-slaves themselves, some of their kids and grandkids are still alive all over latin america, and its a very mixed bag of stories.
you are totally missing my point...i'm sure some rapes and marriages did occur...but I think the mulatto population is exaggerated simply because there wasn't enough whites on the island to mix such a large percentage of the populaiton.
-What are you basing that the root of my objection to your historical account of Cape Verde population has anything to do with preconcievd notions on how I think looked 5000 yrs ago?Popst proof that interacial marriages were the norm between white slave holders or colonist and African slave women...I find that hard to believe....Who said I
-Prove it then?
What I am proving to you? you don't want to listen I just gave you a list of historical event depicted the forced settlement of whites in CV. They were never returning homes, there where no women of their ethnic group in CV there were plenty of black and mulatto women with they formed families with them.
_Really?..I don't know what type of white supremist you have run across but I don't many whom are willing to marry, liberate negro women muchless breed themselves out of existance..If you would've said Europan men came to Cape Verde knocked up a few Cape Verdian women then went back home and wifed up an white girl that would be more believeable but for you to suggest they stayed and lived happily ever after with their slave lovers is an insult to my intelligiance.
That's because your only concept of the era is Alex Haley's, Roots....
You know not everything is based on your theory Supremacy, i.e. white guy with with kkka cape, when in fact you can feel superior to someone or a group and still marry and carry on a relationship with them....when you have no option.
_you just contradiced...1st you said no non African women then you admit that very few European women settlered there which is it? It doesn't make sense to import more women slaves than men to a slave colony so I suspect you are making up the ratioa of women to men too.
You are over analyzing, 83 white women settlers(remove those who died etc) is really "no none African women" get...got it....good.
.
-that's my point..If whites were vastly outnumbered by blacks how is it that they manage to marry and spread their seed all over the Island in such significant numbers..
remember I first told you pologmy was common practice.
..
-I thought you said the 5% figure was wrong:confused:? Why dispute that estimate if you aint even sure yourself?..
I asked you where you got that number? Not sure what you are trying to say?
I believe I told you there was probably never a point that there was more than 5-10% white people in CV. Not yellow bones, redbones, but white people.
.
-What about CV being a slave port would incline European slave holders to love,marry, and free theri slaves which non slave porr and other slave ports were lacking where this didnt occur as frequently as it allegedly occured in the Cv.
?..
it was not alex haley's south, my friend, if you cannot wrap your head around that.
Let me put it to you this way, since small population are irrelevant.
Imagine and empty U.S., no people and then:
85 million female and 15 million male africans, most slaves but some contracted were imported to the U.S. by about 1million white men(never to return to their land or bring their women to the U.S.) Sure thes slave men raped women, others had relationships whether coerced or not...Now imagine all of sudden 14 million Italian theives(non slave owners) were banished to the U.S. with no women. At this point some of those slaves are free, mullatoes have began to be born etc. So obivously some the women were going to form families with whatever AFrican males where there, the 14 million Italians.... couple that with pologmy.... and constent flow of settlers that's how a majority mulatto population came to existence.
I don't know how else to explain it to you....you see the settlers had to form relationship with these women, as they needed to form families unless they were gay, no one was cooking and cleaning for them.
You must think the white male settlers lived all together in a commune and once and while would raid powerful slave owners plantations to have sex with slave.:whoco:
By the way Cape Verde never became a plantatin society.
?..
-Yeah I've read there are more Cape Verdians in the US than Cape Verdian but even by your estimates that's still an tiny populaiton.?..
How does change the fact that you are argueing over a wiki post, which the poster probably knows about ast much as you about cape verde.
What I am proving to you? you don't want to listen I just gave you a list of historical event depicted the forced settlement of whites in CV. They were never returning homes, there where no women of their ethnic group in CV there were plenty of black and mulatto women with they formed families with them.
That's because your only concept of the era is Alex Haley's, Roots....
You know not everything is based on your theory Supremacy, i.e. white guy with with kkka cape, when in fact you can feel superior to someone or a group and still marry and carry on a relationship with them....when you have no option.
You are over analyzing, 83 white women settlers(remove those who died etc) is really "no none African women" get...got it....good.
.
remember I first told you pologmy was common practice.
..
I asked you where you got that number? Not sure what you are trying to say?
I believe I told you there was probably never a point that there was more than 5-10% white people in CV. Not yellow bones, redbones, but white people.
.
it was not alex haley's south, my friend, if you cannot wrap your head around that.
Let me put it to you this way, since small population are irrelevant.
Imagine and empty U.S., no people and then:
85 million female and 15 million male africans, most slaves but some contracted were imported to the U.S. by about 1million white men(never to return to their land or bring their women to the U.S.) Sure thes slave men raped women, others had relationships whether coerced or not...Now imagine all of sudden 14 million Italian theives(non slave owners) were banished to the U.S. with no women. At this point some of those slaves are free, mullatoes have began to be born etc. So obivously some the women were going to form families with whatever AFrican males where there, the 14 million Italians.... couple that with pologmy.... and constent flow of settlers that's how a majority mulatto population came to existence.
I don't know how else to explain it to you....you see the settlers had to form relationship with these women, as they needed to form families unless they were gay, no one was cooking and cleaning for them.
You must think the white male settlers lived all together in a commune and once and while would raid powerful slave owners plantations to have sex with slave.:whoco:
By the way Cape Verde never became a plantatin society.
How does change the fact that you are argueing over a wiki post, which the poster probably knows about ast much as you about cape verde.
_So I see you haven't honored my request and posted any sources/proof...hardly suprising though...Not that you word holds much value but what percentage of Portuguese slave holders/ colonist are you suggesting married black women and what was the ratio of white slaveholders/colonist to blackwwomen and blackmen?
-but they had an option...they could have easily imported women from Portuguel or returned home....white slave holders weren't arabs...it's unlikeyly they would marry their slaves in mass cause of their deep rooted prejudice/wanting preserve their white lineage.
-nah i don't get it cause it doesn't make sense..............What are you basing the figure that only 83 ww lived on the island?why were those whitewomen on the island if they weren't spouses of the Portuguese colonist and did not the whitemen die along with or soon after their women perished?
-Portuguese slave holders keeping multiple sex slaves in their haram doesn't equal marriage fool..Furthermore I find it hard to believe that Portuguese men outnumbered African men or married more African womenthan African men.
-you disputed the figure but come back and say it was probably right or around that number.
-tell me what seperated Cape Verdean slavery from the European slave trade of their peers?
-it's hard to follow what you are trying to say but your scenerio makes zero sene....the notion that female slaves in Cape Verde outnumber thier male counterparts by such a larger margin is illogical....2ndly..the Europeans that came to Cape Verde were their to profit of the slave trade and by estimates were no more than 5% of the population..Unless there was an deliberate attempt by the European slave owners to marry dozens of slave women I don't see how it's possibe that such unions were as common as you are implying..
_So I see you haven't honored my request and posted any sources/proof...hardly suprising though...Not that you word holds much value but what percentage of Portuguese slave holders/ colonist are you suggesting married black women and what was the ratio of white slaveholders/colonist to blackwwomen and blackmen?
..
lol.....i gave you more more than the wiki entry you talking about....lol
i just listed historical accounts for you from UMass...
..
-but they had an option...they could have easily imported women from Portuguel or returned home....white slave holders weren't arabs...it's unlikeyly they would marry their slaves in mass cause of their deep rooted prejudice/wanting preserve their white lineage...
they could , would of etc....that not the point the fact is they didn'nt that's fact.
don't be so dumb....again you cannot get Roots out of your head.
...
-nah i don't get it cause it doesn't make sense..............What are you basing the figure that only 83 ww lived on the island?why were those whitewomen on the island if they weren't spouses of the Portuguese colonist and did not the whitemen die along with or soon after their women perished?...
Are u dence? or you havevent been reading what I've posted? didn't you see a list of historical accounts in "quotes" I posted before from UMASS. Those women were not wives they were deportees.
...
-Portuguese slave holders keeping multiple sex slaves in their haram doesn't equal marriage fool..Furthermore I find it hard to believe that Portuguese men outnumbered African men or married more African womenthan African men....
YOu must be dumb as hell....didn't I tell you exiles and deportees. You find it hard because you are dumb as rock....I never saide Portugues men outnumbered African men. I told you African women outnumber African males.:whoco:
....
-you disputed the figure but come back and say it was probably right or around that number.....
keeping grasping for straws.
.....
-tell me what seperated Cape Verdean slavery from the European slave trade of their peers? .....
Since CV was not a plantation those women were brought to the island as skilled weavers under slavery or contract. Their products(pano di terra) were traded for slaves on the mainland....that's why so many women were imported. At one point the pano di terra actually replaced currency in the region.
Now go out and do some of your own research because I cann't keep going back and fourth with you, one because you did little research on the subject, and two your brain is so stuck on new world slavery models i.e. plantation model, and three you've only backed up your argument with Australian deportees and a brazilian slave torture story.
.....
-
-it's hard to follow what you are trying to say but your scenerio makes zero sene....the notion that female slaves in Cape Verde outnumber thier male counterparts by such a larger margin is illogical....2ndly..the Europeans that came to Cape Verde were their to profit of the slave trade and by estimates were no more than 5% of the population..Unless there was an deliberate attempt by the European slave owners to marry dozens of slave women I don't see how it's possibe that such unions were as common as you are implying..
Why don't you go down to your local Bodega, buy a time machine, go back to to the 1500's and ask the portuguese why they imported mostly female slave,and sent their deportee and exiles to Cape Verde. Maybe that will satisfy you..
No matter how you look at it...it's a fact you don't have to believe historical sources all you have to do is look at DNA studies....posted in this forum.
lol.....i gave you more more than the wiki entry you talking about....lol
i just listed historical accounts for you from UMass...
..
they could , would of etc....that not the point the fact is they didn'nt that's fact.
don't be so dumb....again you cannot get Roots out of your head.
...
Are u dence? or you havevent been reading what I've posted? didn't you see a list of historical accounts in "quotes" I posted before from UMASS. Those women were not wives they were deportees.
...
YOu must be dumb as hell....didn't I tell you exiles and deportees. You find it hard because you are dumb as rock....I never saide Portugues men outnumbered African men. I told you African women outnumber African males.:whoco:
....
keeping grasping for straws.
.....
Since CV was not a plantation those women were brought to the island as skilled weavers under slavery or contract. Their products(pano di terra) were traded for slaves on the mainland....that's why so many women were imported. At one point the pano di terra actually replaced currency in the region.
Now go out and do some of your own research because I cann't keep going back and fourth with you, one because you did little research on the subject, and two your brain is so stuck on new world slavery models i.e. plantation model, and three you've only backed up your argument with Australian deportees and a brazilian slave torture story.
.....
Why don't you go down to your local Bodega, buy a time machine, go back to to the 1500's and ask the portuguese why they imported mostly female slave,and sent their deportee and exiles to Cape Verde. Maybe that will satisfy you..
No matter how you look at it...it's a fact you don't have to believe historical sources all you have to do is look at DNA studies....posted in this forum.
-So why don't you post the links to those sources?
-your the idiot making trying to push an the idea that racist European slave holders married their slaves,stayed in Cape Verde and bred themselves out of existance but i'm the one acting dumb:rolleyes:
-did you write that U Mass report cause it sounds like fantasy and revisionary history...What reason would a government have to deport European women to Cape Verde other than them being the spouses of Cape Verde European male populaiton?
-nah you just to stupid to keep up with your web of lies...you said that African men were in such short supply and that European men being more numerous became a better option for Cape Verdean women..Keep your story straight.
-in other words you got caugh tin a lie and have no rebuttal:thumbsup:
-Again your full of it..Solely weaving isn't exactly an trade that important enough to import slave labor...I've never heard of any group being enslaved cause of their skilled weaving skill were so needed for an colony....You are a bad liar..Again are you even Cape Verdian?
-I have too much common sense and know better than to believe the revisionary tales you are selling as historical fact...DNA result can be and often is manipulated by those with ageandas..The fact remains sending an overwhelming majority of famale slaves to an slave colony isn't a sound buisness decision..I have to believe the Portuguese colonist barabarians wanted slaves cause of their interest in making a profit by exploiting the land of their new colony through free to do themselves.. not to weave baskets then marry them and breed theselves out of existnce within a generation...even you aint stupid enough to believe that so why do you expect me to?
-So why don't you post the links to those sources?
-your the idiot making trying to push an the idea that racist European slave holders married their slaves,stayed in Cape Verde and bred themselves out of existance but i'm the one acting dumb:rolleyes:
-did you write that U Mass report cause it sounds like fantasy and revisionary history...What reason would a government have to deport European women to Cape Verde other than them being the spouses of Cape Verde European male populaiton?
-nah you just to stupid to keep up with your web of lies...you said that African men were in such short supply and that European men being more numerous became a better option for Cape Verdean women..Keep your story straight.
-in other words you got caugh tin a lie and have no rebuttal:thumbsup:
-Again your full of it..Solely weaving isn't exactly an trade that important enough to import slave labor...I've never heard of any group being enslaved cause of their skilled weaving skill were so needed for an colony....You are a bad liar..Again are you even Cape Verdian?
-I have too much common sense and know better than to believe the revisionary tales you are selling as historical fact...DNA result can be and often is manipulated by those with ageandas..The fact remains sending an overwhelming majority of famale slaves to an slave colony isn't a sound buisness decision..I have to believe the Portuguese colonist barabarians wanted slaves cause of their interest in making a profit by exploiting the land of their new colony through free to do themselves.. not to weave baskets then marry them and breed theselves out of existnce within a generation...even you aint stupid enough to believe that so why do you expect me to?
Here the thing... You have american mentality so you think everything you say is right.
You are a product of the american slave system and you are just now beginning to be familiar with what happened before your forefathers arrived. I in the other hand have know the history of My country since I was a child. I've already told you what happened and you are just fishing for a fight... But we/I have nothing to prove to you. What I've told you are facts... I'm as pan African as they come, my father was
Deeply involved in the liberation movement. I follow the teachings of cabral, I've been to Africa west and east I have nothing to gain by telling you lies ... I know it will take you years to grasp the first hand knowledge i have of africa and the slavery experience on the islands...,there is nothin to prove because you got some black power talking points my friend... you know more about Africa than Africans huh? Don't play those black power talking points with me unless have info to back up your claims, I know enough the shit your talking is out just ignorance...it's one thing to be uneducated on a topic ,to ask, research and draw a conclusion and another thIing to be so arrogant that you think you know what my peoples' experience was because only your ideas are relevant. You need to kick rocks with that mentality and try the "your denying heritage" talking pointS with your own folks... You got to start thinking more critically than that... Cabral would have sent you packing to the states with that arrogance.
---------- Post added 2012-04-16 at 18:32 ----------
-So why don't you post the links to those sources?
-your the idiot making trying to push an the idea that racist European slave holders married their slaves,stayed in Cape Verde and bred themselves out of existance but i'm the one acting dumb:rolleyes:
-did you write that U Mass report cause it sounds like fantasy and revisionary history...What reason would a government have to deport European women to Cape Verde other than them being the spouses of Cape Verde European male populaiton?
-nah you just to stupid to keep up with your web of lies...you said that African men were in such short supply and that European men being more numerous became a better option for Cape Verdean women..Keep your story straight.
-in other words you got caugh tin a lie and have no rebuttal:thumbsup:
-Again your full of it..Solely weaving isn't exactly an trade that important enough to import slave labor...I've never heard of any group being enslaved cause of their skilled weaving skill were so needed for an colony....You are a bad liar..Again are you even Cape Verdian?
-I have too much common sense and know better than to believe the revisionary tales you are selling as historical fact...DNA result can be and often is manipulated by those with ageandas..The fact remains sending an overwhelming majority of famale slaves to an slave colony isn't a sound buisness decision..I have to believe the Portuguese colonist barabarians wanted slaves cause of their interest in making a profit by exploiting the land of their new colony through free to do themselves.. not to weave baskets then marry them and breed theselves out of existnce within a generation...even you aint stupid enough to believe that so why do you expect me to?
Here the thing... You have american mentality so you think everything you say is right.
You are a product of the american slave system and you are just now beginning to be familiar with what happened before your forefathers arrived. I in the other hand have know the history of My country since I was a child. I've already told you what happened and you are just fishing for a fight... But we/I have nothing to prove to you. What I've told you are facts... I'm as pan African as they come, my father was
Deeply involved in the liberation movement. I follow the teachings of cabral, I've been to Africa west and east I have nothing to gain by telling you lies ... I know it will take you years to grasp the first hand knowledge i have of africa and the slavery experience on the islands...,there is nothin to prove because you got some black power talking points my friend... you know more about Africa than Africans huh? Don't play those black power talking points with me unless have info to back up your claims, I know enough the shit your talking is out just ignorance...it's one thing to be uneducated on a topic ,to ask, research and draw a conclusion and another thIing to be so arrogant that you think you know what my peoples' experience was because only your ideas are relevant. You need to kick rocks with that mentality and try the "your denying heritage" talking point with your own folks... You got to start thinking more critically than that... Cabral would have sent you packing to the states with that arrogance.
Paper on jewish slave traders/and their decendents.
Paper presented at the University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth
11 February 1996
Jewish slave traders
HISTORICAL BACKGROUND IN PORTUGAL
In Iberia the Reconquista movement was growing in its mission to recover their lands from the Muslim Moors who had first arrived in the 8th century. Jews may have first arrived far earlier during the time of the Phonecians and Roman. Nevertheless, Maghrebi Jews were key allies of the Moors and centuries-long residents of Iberia. Probably as early as 1480 one may find the beginnings of the Spanish Inquisition and expulsion of Jews. It was however in 1492 the the Spanish Inquisition emerged in its fullest expression of intolerance, anti-Semitism. This social pathology quickly spread to neighboring Portugal where Portuguese Kings Joao II and especially Manuel I in 1496, determined to exile thousands of Jews to Sao Tome, Principe, and Cape Verde. The numbers expelled at this time were so great that the term Portuguese" almost implied those of Jewish origin. Those who were not expelled were converted by force or were even executed.
Despite the important role of Portuguese Jews in commerce, navigational sciences, and in the cartography of Africa, they faced riots, pogroms, and profound oppression during the
Spanish and Portuguese Inquisitions when they became termed Narannos (Moorish Jews)
or Judeus Segredos (Secret Jews). This led to forced conversions and to Jews becoming known
as Novos Cristaos (New Christians). It was not until 1768 that Portugal officially abolished the distinction between "Old" and "New" (i.e. Jewish) Christians.
Meanwhile, in order to begin to develop the Cape Verde Islands which had been discovered between 1455 and 1462 the Portuguese king granted a Royal Charter in 1466 to have the right" to trade in slaves for Portuguese residing in Cape Verde. This lucrative offer was soon to be rescinded and in 1472 slave trading rights were restricted to an exclusive royal monopoly. Thus from the very beginning of its history Cape Verde, and its diverse multi-cultural peoples were situated within the context of a slave society and the slave trade.
JEWS ON THE WEST AFRICAN COAST AND ISLANDS
Despite their despised, exile, or degredado (convict) status, the small number of Europeans and Jews residing in Cape Verde were allowed to engage in trade, as long as they did not compete severely with the Portuguese trading monopolies. On the other hand if trading polices of the king were not sufficiently liberal then there was little incentive or reward to trade at all. Such was the
eternal tension in Cape Verde between free Judeo-European traders in the islands and on the coast and the monopolistic tendancies of the Crown. To a certain extent, this structural rivalry remains right to the present. Some Cape Verdean commercial interests are focused on economic and political links to Portugal while others have made their ties to the politics and economies of coastal West Africa. Those who formally served the Portuguese ruling class came to be known as capitaos who were almost never Jews, and those free-lance traders were usually termed lan, cados who were often but not completely, of part Jewish origin.
At least by the early or mid 1600's Cape Verdean lanados had trading centers all along the Senegambian coast as especially at such places as Goree (famed for the Crioula female slave traders or Senhoras) Joal, Portuguese Town in Gambia, and Ziguinchor in the Casamance as well as in Cacheu, Bissau, Bolama and further down the Upper Guinea coast including the Portuguese role in the construction of Al-Mina castle in modern Ghana, which also included a visit by the famed navigator Christopher Columbus.
The excellent research of Jean Boulegue has brought to light many fascinating details of the Portuguese Jewish presence in Senegambia and Guinea. For example, in 1517 Portuguese King Manuel I made reference to a group of lan, cados on the Senegambian coast; most of these were Portuguese Jews who had been deported. The term lancados, derived from the Portuguese verb "to throw out," is related to their outcaste or fugitive role in Luso-African coastal commerce. Figuratively the term lancados means "outcastes." They were usually fugitive Portuguese settlers including those exiled degredados following their conviction for some political "crime" as was the case for Jews following the full-scale Portuguese Inquisition in 1536, but Christian lanados were also known.
Jews from Cape Verde and Portugal were already known in Joal as early as 1591 and a synagogue was noted there in 1641. In 1606, in Portugal, also on the Senegalese coast there were 100 Portuguese following the "Laws of Moses." Boulegue notes that in 1614 the Governor of Cape Verde recorded that the greatest number of lanados were Jews. In 1622 the Cape Verdean Governor, Dom Francisco de Mourra, reported to the Portuguese King that the Guinea coastal rivers were "full of Jews who were masters of the local regions and were quite independent of the Crown." No doubt such information relating to "the Jewish danger" gave "justification" to the Portuguese to punish two wealthy members of the Jewish community around the synagogue in Rufisque, Senegal, for economic excesses in 1629. When a branch of the Portuguese Inquisition was established in Cape Verde in 1672, one result was the seizure of Jewish-owned merchandise. As the 17th century evolved, the Portuguese were steadily displaced from Senegambia, but they retained their bases in the Cape Verde islands and in Guinea at Cacheu, Bolama, Bissau, Buba, Geba, Mansoa. In the 16th and 17th centuries the term ganagoga was also used in the Upper Guinea/Cape Verde region to imply Jewish lanados, but in practice ganagoga also meant people who were able to speak many local African languages. Allied with them were the tangomaos who represented a still deeper connection to the African interior for the lanados. It seems most likely that the term tangomao is a corrupted form of targuman, which means "translator" in Arabic.
Muslims and Arabic-speakers were and are widespread in this area, especially the northern and interior regions where the tangomaos or lanados traded. Lanados were reputed for being resourceful and courageous, and having initiative. The term also connotes the mixed-race traders living in the trading communities in the islands or on the coast where they conducted trade. They often had African wives from the local groups and, as such, their children can be said to be the nucleus of the future Crioulo population. They were economic intermediaries or middlemen for the Portuguese regional trade.
Other references to Portuguese or Iberian Jews sometimes use the term Ladino to note this social group which constituted a portion of early migrants to the Cape Verde Islands. Some references use this term for the people and language of 16th and 17th century Sephardic Jews. from the Iberian peninsula. The term ladinos could also refer to baptized African slaves. In either case, the
reference was often racist, and derogatory, and implied a lying, wandering, sneaky, and thieving group which was particularly untrustworthy. In certain social contexts it could be used affectionately to mean a scamp.
While seeking to convert or expel Jews from Portugal, the Crown in the 16th and 17th century allowed, or even encouraged, the lanados to settle along the Senegambian and Upper Guinea coast to trade for ivory, hides, slaves, gold, gum, wax, and amber while based in Cape Verde. Within the islands Jews would receive these same items for later resale to those traders who wanted to avoid the risks of coastal trade even if it meant higher costs in the islands. Jews in Cape Verde were also active in the trade of hides, urzella, and coffee.
Restrictions for the lanados prohibited them from selling iron bars, firearms, and navigational instruments, yet the lanados were clearly critical in the economic network which linked the Crown trade monopolies to the coast. Spanish and English smugglers using ties to the lan,cados were frequent violaters of these rather schizophrenic Portuguese prohibitions. Evidentally such trading enterprises were "too effective" so in 1687 the King of Portugal ruled that Cape Verdean Jews and lan,cados were officially forbidden to sell cloth currency or panos to foreigners. By producing panos with slave labor in farming and weaving, the Cape Verdean merchants undermined the royal economy. Yet this rivalry continued for centuries. Another short chapter of the history of Cape Verdean Jews appears in the 1820s when some of the very few Jews of Portugal were involved in the ULiberal Wars" in Portugal. These Jewish UMiguelistas" fled Santo Antao for refuge and exile. A final chapter of Jewish history in Cape Verde takes place in the 1850's when Moroccan Jews arrived, especially in Boa Vista and Maio for the hide trade. In short, Jewish history plays a role in Cape Verde and Guinea that is far greater than expected or recognized.
Thus, as early as the later 15th century and through the 16th and even 17th centuries, a Jewish coastal presence was deeply established. This brought on an important synthesis which was responsible for playing a central role in the creation of Crioulo culture.
These Jews, both in the Cape Verde Islands and on the coast, were at the heart of the
Afro-Portuguese merging which became Crioulo culture. The anti-Semitism of Spain and Portugal and the financial goals of the Portuguese Crown were constantly trying to restrict their success. The more successful, the more restrictions, but also the more deeply struck were the commerical and cultural roots of these people.
The lanados were themselves undergoing a transformation because of their intermediary and collaborative relation with African cultures. This contradictory nature at once set them apart, while embedding them in a multi-racial and multi-cultural identity that was being concurrently synthesized. In Cape Verde this was to become the essence of Crioulo culture. This process has its close parallels in East Africa with the commercial presence of Omani and Shirazi Muslims who were trading for ivory and slaves from the African interior. A trade language and an entire cultural
group, now known as KiSwahili evolved in this other regional context. In the Senegambian case, French and British expansion finally reduced the presence of the lan,cados and their military body guard associates, the grumettas, to only Portuguese Guinea and to urban and coastal entrepots. Until the war of national liberation (1963-1974) in Guinea-Bissau, Crioulo people, culture, and language were still mainly in urban areas. During the war the use of Crioulo spread throughout the countryside and the former commercial lingua franca has become the national folk language for both Cape Verde and Guinea-Bissau.
Clearly the Jewish and African slaver trader alliance was already of very great historical depth. This relationship was based upon several factors. On the one hand, the Portuguese Crown and its feitors and capitaos gained tremendous wealth from the slave trade and they did little to oppose it, however, they were pleased to have a social pariah group, like the lan,cados, be responsible for the front line operation of the trade. Meanwhile, the commercial skills, and higher level of literacy put the Jews in a strong position to have a critical role in an economy and society which otherwise shunned them. It should be made very clear that, by no means, were all Portuguese slavers Jewish, nor were all Portuguese involved in the slave trade; likewise the slave trade in the interior necessitated strategic African collaboration.
A reference to a lanado expedition to the goldfields of Bambuk in 1785-88 referred to a Jewish ganagoga who married a daughter of the Muslim Imam of Futa Toro. In their heyday, the lanados owned and operated their own ships, river craft and canoes, as well as carrying firearms, daggers, and swords. Above all they were traders in wax, gold, hides, cloths, ivory, and cotton. However, by the late 18th century, a clearly defined lanado community in Senegambia was gone, but not really departed. Virtually all lanados had African wives and consorts and their subsequent generations continued to play a central and substantial role in the culturo-linguistic melange which constitutes Cape Verdean Crioulo culture.This was formed in the context of the merging and blending of Iberian, Moorish, Jewish, and African peoples.
Although there is no formal Jewish synagogue in Cape Verde today and there is no official rabbi, an elder named David Cohen was reported to lead other Jews in prayer in the 20th century. Historically there was a very definite Jewish presence amongst early Cape Verdeans. Jews first came to the island of Sao Tiago as refugees from religious persecution during the Inquisition. They were shunned by the wider society of the islands at that time and they were confined to a separate ghetto-like community in Praia. During the early nineteenth century, Jews also came to settle in Santo Antao where there are still traces of their influx in the name of the village of Sinagoga, located on the north coast between Riberia Grande and Janela, and in the Jewish cemetary at the town of Ponta da Sol. The family names of Cohn (priest) and Wahnon are prominent in Santo Antao. Other Jewish settlers such as the Ben Oliel family migrated to Boa Vista (q.v.), trading in salt, hides, and slaves. Jewish-derived surnames can be found amongst the inhabitants of the islands. Such names can include Auday, Benros, Ben David, Cohn, DaGama, and Seruya.
The family of Salomao Ben Oliel is still active today in trading activities of the Sociedade Luso-Africana, Ltd. This hyphenated company name suggests the long historical roots between two cultural regions. Jewish cemetaries or graves are in Brava (at Cova da Judeu), Boa Vista, Sao Tiago (in Praia and Cidade Velha), Santo Antao (especially at Sinagoga), Sao Nicolau (at Mindelo), Fogo, and probably in other islands as well. In the l9th and 20th century Praia cemetary, for example, there are about eight grave markers still extant with Hebrew inscriptions. These were originally outside of the cemetary walls, but as it expanded, the walls were relocated and thereby integrated these deceased Jews with their Crioulo cousins.
The Atlantic slave trade has also been known as the Triangle trade as it described a vast triangular shape linking West Africa with the Caribbean and then to New England and Europe and thence back to Africa. As a result, in the Caribbean, in Curacao, Surinam, and Jamaica, there were Jewish populations similar to, and linked with, those in West Africa. The case of Jamaica parallels that of the lanados since it was in its period of growth from the 1630s to 1670s. Eighteenth century Portuguese Jews in Jamaica include names such as Alvarez, Cardoso, Coreia, DaCosta, Gomes, Gonsalis, Gutteres, Lamego, Quisano, and Torres. In Newport, Rhode Island leading Yankee families gained great wealth from the slave trade including key members of the ruling class, however for the Rhode Island Jews who were also involved they were exclusively of Portuguese origins.
....
This paper is obivously biased but has some historical dates and events that are interesting.[COLOR="Silver"]
---------- Post added 2012-04-16 at 23:16 ----------
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]"The test results paralleled the islands’ history. About “93% of the sampled mtDNAs belong to sub-Saharan African haplogroups[L1, L2, L3]…Only 3% are members of the North African haplogroup U6, so that the total African fraction of the mtDNA pool amounts to nearly 97%.”[3] Thus, the vast majority of Cape Verdeans have African ancestors on their maternal [mother’s] side.
Each haplogroup [or family group] has its own characteristics. Haplogroup L1 originated in East Africa and spread to West, Central, and Southern Africa. The Khoisan and pygmies are included in this group. Haplogroup L2 is the most numerous and widespread mtDNA haplogroup in Africa. It is the signature of the Bantu tribes. People from this group include those found in Niger, Uganda, and Benin. Haplogroup L3 started in Africa and moved north and west. “One group of individuals headed west and is primarily restricted to Atlantic western Africa, including the islands of Cabo Verde.”[4] Ethiopians and Kenyans are among this group. L3 also makes up 10% of the Middle Eastern population. Haplogroup U6 is primarily from North Africa and constitutes 10% of the population of the region. Thus, the vast majority of Cape Verdeans, 97%, have African maternal ancestors. Of these, it seems that a large proportion came from western Africa, particular the Senegambian region. "
"Natives Americans and Hawaiians in Cape Verde
By Jose A. dos Anjos
It has been well documented that Cape Verdeans have been present in North America for centuries. However, the flow of migration has not only been one-way. North Americans and Pacific Islanders have also existed in Cape Verde. These include Native Canadians and possibly Native Hawaiians.
James W. Loewen, in Lies My Teacher Told Me, noted the presence of Native Americans in Cape Verde. He stated that “in 1501 the Portuguese began to depopulate Labrador, transporting the now extinct Beothuk Indians to Europe and Cape Verde as slaves.”[1] The fate of these Beothuk Indians when they reached Cape Verde is unknown.
In more recent times, DNA research has given evidence for the presence of a Pacific Islander in Cape Verde. A group of researchers have studied the mitochondrial DNA of 292 Cape Verdeans. Mitochondrial DNA (or mtDNA for short) is the DNA found in the mitochondria, which lies outside of nucleus of cells. It can only be passed from mother to children through her eggs. Sons can not pass on mtDNA they received from their mothers, but daughters can. The researchers were trying to see where Cape Verdean women originated.
The results were surprising in one respect: a Polynesian DNA was found. The published article states that “a single mtDNA, an erratic in the Cabo Verde mtDNA pool, belongs to the Asian haplogroup B and, quite surprisingly, has the so-called Polynesian motif.”[2] The explanation: “According to the family's oral tradition of this subject, the great-grandmother (in the maternal line) came from North America to Boavista and was assumed to be a Navajo. In view of the mtDNA a Hawaiian origin, for example, would seem more plausible.”[3]
The explanation seems to fit in with general Cape Verdean history in North America. Cape Verdeans have had a presence in Hawaii since the whaling days. Professor Edgar C. Knowlton, Jr. noted that “sailors from Cabo Verde were know to have sailed on whaling ships to Hawai’i before 1800.”[4] There were often intermarriages with the local population. In fact, “by 1940, it is probable that nearly all the descendants of these black Portuguese [Cape Verdeans] were classified for census purposes as part-Hawaiian, and the number was, in all probability between 7 and 8 thousand.”[5] Though many of the couples stayed in Hawai’i, the possibility of one of the couples deciding to live in Cape Verde seems to have been a possibility born out by genetics and oral family tradition.
Cape Verdeans have always known that they were composed of various racial and ethnic groups. However, recent research is beginning to show how diverse that population really is. Polynesian DNA has been confirmed. What other kinds of genetic diversity will be revealed in the future remains to be seen. Nevertheless, it is becoming even more evident that Cape Verde was multicultural even before the term became popular.
[1] James W. Loewen, in Lies My Teacher Told Me (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1995), pg 64.
[2] A. Brehm, L. Pereira, H.-J. Bandelt, M. J. Prata, and A. Amorim in Mitochondrial Portrait of the Cabo Verde Archipelago: the Senegambian Outpost of Atlantic Slave Trade (United Kingdom: University College London, 2002).
[3] A. Brehm, et al, Mitochondrial Portrait of Cabo Verde Archipelago.
[4] Jackson, Miles M., ed. They Followed the Trade Winds: African Americans in Hawaii (Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press, 2005), pg 90.
[5] Jackson, They Followed the Trade Winds, pg 92. "
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http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/431658/large/C0108290-Natives_of_St_Vincent,_19th_century-SPL.jpg
Peope of Cape Verdean descent in San Tome and Principe
Thousands of indentured slaves were forced to St Tom and Principe during times of famine.
http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/6-Children-of-Cape-Verdean-descent-in-Principe.jpg&sa=X&ei=aN6MT9bvB6TW2gWY7ID2Cw&ved=0CAoQ8wc4Ew&usg=AFQjCNEiwzxUWKxZGhUobqOnryG4ECsu7w
Trailor to of documentry on CV of San tome/prinicipe....most who were sent ther were never able to to return cape verde:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnvcsw2eTcU&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLAB91D14A67EC0BAD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=966bK-XQ_q4
Here the thing... You have american mentality so you think everything you say is right.
You are a product of the american slave system and you are just now beginning to be familiar with what happened before your forefathers arrived. I in the other hand have know the history of My country since I was a child. I've already told you what happened and you are just fishing for a fight... But we/I have nothing to prove to you. What I've told you are facts... I'm as pan African as they come, my father was
Deeply involved in the liberation movement. I follow the teachings of cabral, I've been to Africa west and east I have nothing to gain by telling you lies ... I know it will take you years to grasp the first hand knowledge i have of africa and the slavery experience on the islands...,there is nothin to prove because you got some black power talking points my friend... you know more about Africa than Africans huh? Don't play those black power talking points with me unless have info to back up your claims, I know enough the shit your talking is out just ignorance...it's one thing to be uneducated on a topic ,to ask, research and draw a conclusion and another thIing to be so arrogant that you think you know what my peoples' experience was because only your ideas are relevant. You need to kick rocks with that mentality and try the "your denying heritage" talking pointS with your own folks... You got to start thinking more critically than that... Cabral would have sent you packing to the states with that arrogance.
---------- Post added 2012-04-16 at 18:32 ----------
Here the thing... You have american mentality so you think everything you say is right.
You are a product of the american slave system and you are just now beginning to be familiar with what happened before your forefathers arrived. I in the other hand have know the history of My country since I was a child. I've already told you what happened and you are just fishing for a fight... But we/I have nothing to prove to you. What I've told you are facts... I'm as pan African as they come, my father was
Deeply involved in the liberation movement. I follow the teachings of cabral, I've been to Africa west and east I have nothing to gain by telling you lies ... I know it will take you years to grasp the first hand knowledge i have of africa and the slavery experience on the islands...,there is nothin to prove because you got some black power talking points my friend... you know more about Africa than Africans huh? Don't play those black power talking points with me unless have info to back up your claims, I know enough the shit your talking is out just ignorance...it's one thing to be uneducated on a topic ,to ask, research and draw a conclusion and another thIing to be so arrogant that you think you know what my peoples' experience was because only your ideas are relevant. You need to kick rocks with that mentality and try the "your denying heritage" talking point with your own folks... You got to start thinking more critically than that... Cabral would have sent you packing to the states with that arrogance.
And your a product of the Portuguese slave system so what's your point? The pot calling the kettle black comes to mind;).. I don't care if you lived through that era and had first had exprience... your account of Cape Verdean history has to many holes in it to be completel accurate....Alot of Africans are pretty ignorant about their past due to colonization..you aint no damn Pan Africanist cause real Pan Africanist don't so vehemetly try to prove they had the blood of their people's oppressors and that it wasn't through rape but romance.:rolleyes:If you really African you disgrace not only you cotiinent but the legacy of all your ancestors whom must be turning in their graves.
---------- Post added 2012-04-17 at 08:53 ----------
Paper on jewish slave traders/and their decendents.
This paper is obivously biased but has some historical dates and events that are interesting.[COLOR="Silver"]
---------- Post added 2012-04-16 at 23:16 ----------
[/COLOR
not one of them essays supported your account of Cape Verdean history and a stop reading the 1st one when it made a claim that that their were Aashkenaizi Jewish Moor cause an chance the article had for crebility after that absurd proclaimation had been lost.
And your a product of the Portuguese slave system so what's your point? The pot calling the kettle black comes to mind;).. I don't care if you lived through that era and had first had exprience... your account of Cape Verdean history has to many holes in it to be completel accurate....Alot of Africans are pretty ignorant about their past due to colonization..you aint no damn Pan Africanist cause real Pan Africanist don't so vehemetly try to prove they had the blood of their people's oppressors and that it wasn't through rape but romance.:rolleyes:If you really African you disgrace not only you cotiinent but the legacy of all your ancestors whom must be turning in their graves.
---------- Post added 2012-04-17 at 08:53 ----------
not one of them essays supported your account of Cape Verdean history and a stop reading the 1st one when it made a claim that that their were Aashkenaizi Jewish Moor cause an chance the article had for crebility after that absurd proclaimation had been lost.
Hahaha ... You think the post has anything to Do with your ignorant ass, fashion African?
I hear Walmart has a half off price on dashikis and cowery shells this weekend.
:eek:
And your a product of the Portuguese slave system so what's your point? The pot calling the kettle black comes to mind;).. I don't care if you lived through that era and had first had exprience... your account of Cape Verdean history has to many holes in it to be completel accurate....Alot of Africans are pretty ignorant about their past due to colonization..you aint no damn Pan Africanist cause real Pan Africanist don't so vehemetly try to prove they had the blood of their people's oppressors and that it wasn't through rape but romance.:rolleyes:If you really African you disgrace not only you cotiinent but the legacy of all your ancestors whom must be turning in their graves.[COLOR="Silver"]
Here is the differnence, Your are still being mindf*cked, everytime you step out your door, you see your Anglo slave masters.... when I step out my door I see people who look like me, my father, my mother and other Africans....
Your agression stems from feeling threatend alone and never accepted. That's why you cannot possibly think rationally when it comes to these discussions...you think because in your culture it's alright to be agressive when you don't agree or UNDERSTAND a topic, other people are going tolerate you, GTFOH...
and no one vhemtly tried to prove anything.....that's the symptoms of being mindfucked by your slavemasters....you start getting parinoid...so everybody is the enemy and hiding shit:eek:
Like I tell most Fashion Africans, STFU and move to AFrica.....
pack your bags and go to AFrica....go find your family.... see if you last more than month...your ass will come running to your anglo slave master when you realize wholefoods and walmart is not around the corner.
---------- Post added 2012-04-17 at 22:07 ----------
Afro Argentines- a big % are those of Cape Verdean descent:
"Immigrants from Cape Verde
Between 12,000 and 15,000 descendants of immigrants from Cape Verde living in Argentina, of whom about 300 are native to the African country.
This immigration began in the late 19th century and became important from the 1920s. The busiest periods were between 1927 and 1933 and the third, after 1946.[17] These migrations were mainly due to droughts in the African country that originated famine and death.
They were expert sailors and fishermen, which is why most places settled in ports such as Rosario, Buenos Aires, San Nicolás, Bahía Blanca, Ensenada and Dock Sud. 95% of them got jobs in the Navy War in the Merchant Navy in the Fleet Fluvial Argentina in YPF, dockyards or ELMA."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DScUpzk5w1A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Szi3by5Fs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOzjZp4jhU
:eek:
Here is the differnence, Your are still being mindf*cked, everytime you step out your door, you see your Anglo slave masters.... when I step out my door I see people who look like me, my father, my mother and other Africans....
Your agression stems from feeling threatend alone and never accepted. That's why you cannot possibly think rationally when it comes to these discussions...you think because in your culture it's alright to be agressive when you don't agree or UNDERSTAND a topic, other people are going tolerate you, GTFOH...
and no one vhemtly tried to prove anything.....that's the symptoms of being mindfucked by your slavemasters....you start getting parinoid...so everybody is the enemy and hiding shit:eek:
Like I tell most Fashion Africans, STFU and move to AFrica.....
pack your bags and go to AFrica....go find your family.... see if you last more than month...your ass will come running to your anglo slave master when you realize wholefoods and walmart is not around the corner.
---------- Post added 2012-04-17 at 22:07 ----------
Afro Argentines- a big % are those of Cape Verdean descent:
"Immigrants from Cape Verde
Between 12,000 and 15,000 descendants of immigrants from Cape Verde living in Argentina, of whom about 300 are native to the African country.
This immigration began in the late 19th century and became important from the 1920s. The busiest periods were between 1927 and 1933 and the third, after 1946.[17] These migrations were mainly due to droughts in the African country that originated famine and death.
They were expert sailors and fishermen, which is why most places settled in ports such as Rosario, Buenos Aires, San Nicolás, Bahía Blanca, Ensenada and Dock Sud. 95% of them got jobs in the Navy War in the Merchant Navy in the Fleet Fluvial Argentina in YPF, dockyards or ELMA."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DScUpzk5w1A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Szi3by5Fs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOzjZp4jhU
No the difference between us is I veiw the oppressors of my people as the scum of the Earth and wish to burn in hell while you romanticize the abusive relationship with
your people's former masters cause you have learned to love them...:ashamed: I think brother Malcom X would've have considered you a house negress
btw....i notice you still haven't posted anything to support your version of Cape Verdian white KKKnights in shining armor freeing Cape Verdian negresses from slavery and eloping with them in significant numbers.:rolleyes:
Hahaha ... You think the post has anything to Do with your ignorant ass, fashion African?
I hear Walmart has a half off price on dashikis and cowery shells this weekend.
:lol::lol::lol:
Hahaha ... You think the post has anything to Do with your ignorant ass, fashion African?
I hear Walmart has a half off price on dashikis and cowery shells this weekend.
Oh snap! :o :lol:
Hahaha ... You think the post has anything to Do with your ignorant ass, fashion African?
I hear Walmart has a half off price on dashikis and cowery shells this weekend.
huh?reprahse that question in a coherant and cleary English sentence...I'm not against rocking the traditional African attiere but to me Pan Africanism if a state of mind much deeper than a fashion gimmick
http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.trinisinlondon.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/PanAfrican1-300x300.jpg&sa=X&ei=c7KOT4CAHIio8gTNqISMDg&ved=0CA0Q8wc4jAE&usg=AFQjCNEzDIPZItQAS_NUFvh9cG2tR6ibYw
No the difference between us is I veiw the oppressors of my people as the scum of the Earth and wish to burn in hell while you romanticize the abusive relationship with
your people's former masters cause you have learned to love them...:ashamed: I think brother Malcom X would've have considered you a house negress
btw....i notice you still haven't posted anything to support your version of Cape Verdian white KKKnights in shining armor freeing Cape Verdian negresses from slavery and eloping with them in significant numbers.:rolleyes:
1. I want you to copy and paste a quote(s) that I said I loved slavemasters?:lol:
2. The difference btwn you and I is I&my people choose to
"return to the upward paths of our own culture, which is nourished by the living reality of its environment, and which negates both harmful influences and any kind of subjection to foreign culture."
you choose to keep knocking on your rapists door obsessivly looking for a reason why, looking for an apology, looking to be accepted, and just feeling frustrated....they have your mind.
3. PanAfricanism is not being an internet Lumumba. You are are well fed, in a comfy house, have the luxury to go school, do research, sit in cafe and contemplate...so cut the bull . What you owe the Malcom Xs, Cabrals, Lumumbas of the world is to behave reasonably towards others. and take time to read instead of looking to pick dumb fights.
You know very well you were looking for a "denying your heritage" "love the slavemaster fight"....your personal culture is occupied by your "slavemaster"... you are no longer African.
An Igbo, Yoruba, Badiu, Taureg, San, etc....simply live their culture which is what being AFrican is about. They fight real battles when they present themselves.
1. I want you to copy and paste a quote(s) that I said I loved slavemasters?:lol:
2. The difference btwn you and I is I&my people choose to
"return to the upward paths of our own culture, which is nourished by the living reality of its environment, and which negates both harmful influences and any kind of subjection to foreign culture."
you choose to keep knocking on your rapists door obsessivly looking for a reason why, looking for an apology, looking to be accepted, and just feeling frustrated....they have your mind.
3. PanAfricanism is not being an internet Lumumba. You are are well fed, in a comfy house, have the luxury to go school, do research, sit in cafe and contemplate...so cut the bull . What you owe the Malcom Xs, Cabrals, Lumumbas of the world is to behave reasonably towards others. and take time to read instead of looking to pick dumb fights.
You know very well you were looking for a "denying your heritage" "love the slavemaster fight"....your personal culture is occupied by your "slavemaster"... you are no longer African.
An Igbo, Yoruba, Badiu, Taureg, San, etc....simply live their culture which is what being AFrican is about. They fight real battles when they present themselves.
1)your wish to align yourself with them and downplay the wicked crimes they've commited againt your people which is obviusly rooted in your affection for them.
2)Stop projecting your sickness on me....Your the fool trying prove to me that slave holders in Cape Verse weren't that bad and that they actually marrried and freed your ancestors? but i'm the one looking for acceptance of my people's oppressors?:rolleyes:
3).. Going hungry or being homeless isn't a prequisite to be Pan African...Really what are you trying to say?...Pan Afrcanism is wishing for the unity, propserity and advancment of all African descent people...Clearly you are ignorant on what it means to be Pan African and thus in no position to dictate what is or isn't.
-nah while I feel you suffer from mild slave mentality and need to free your mind my initial post was directed at the threader starter alluding to portions of his/her opening post I disagreed with and I explained why....you are the one whom initiated this exchange with me not the other way around........
-You have an habit for making rules on whom's what that you are no authority on...Being African isn't belonging to an tribe....it's having roots in the Motherland....I am an displaced African living in Amerikkka...Just cause some Africans never immigrated off the continent much later than my people did or never left doesn't make them more African than me..Last time I checked there are arab and European decent tribes whom have lived in Africa for centuries but as far as being idigenous to the continent they will never be as African as me and other disporans despite our how long we've been gone Africa is in our veins.
http://imgs.sapo.pt/gfx/509771.gif
http://www.cdsantaclara.pt/eventos/imagem_201107211820461311265246_73.jpg
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT34e4K8d-fj_NH_ebKa8ABIrc-y44XoFhdJ_gZUnj4s5v_kZ89BVPe1Tvt
http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/sp/efenews/20100831/3320584w.jpg
http://www.zerozero.pt/img/jogadores/19/203019_djaniny.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_UK-7Ko4NMt8/THqiZstRt_I/AAAAAAAAAf4/Cnz8R91Dfh0/s1600/nelson%5B1%5D.jpg
http://www.africanidade.com/content_images/5/ze_luis.jpg
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTSzMZZBGH3Qd2--4LlNOK1UL5737AcqcUiBzbXfw_pl-mKg6aFQNSZst6E
People from Praia Santiago:
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N42093c47/11445742_bfhcV.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N4809de42/11445744_kzOu4.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nd609cb79/11445737_Bk6ME.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N880999cf/11445736_gPqjs.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nfc09e672/11445720_dqiCY.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9e0916b7/11445685_ITQ4D.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N15097c7b/11445683_LKM4e.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N2e0950e3/11445679_fz6Dl.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nf9095ba2/11445673_rHklH.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3b09e60f/11445670_VphsH.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/M3909acd5/11445666_knM35.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1a096adb/11445657_L0EhZ.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nb309c998/11445643_RZUig.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6909fbd5/11445623_DAftD.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N5e02bc3e/6432445_LZoYp.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ndd049405/6432436_m3mYH.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N2309ab0c/11445633_PC9FW.jpeg
---------- Post added 2012-05-03 at 04:58 ----------
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/u210653c8/8777304_ijOut.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Na5066948/8777297_Lg2t9.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Naa062804/8777295_eTeb6.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6106fb1b/8777290_OfJEA.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/uab06528f/8777305_Id6P8.jpeg
---------- Post added 2012-05-03 at 05:31 ----------
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N4f067af8/8777118_aEZrz.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/u210653c8/8777304_ijOut.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1a0658ae/8777128_MuL7A.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Na5068e28/8776913_oPolL.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N42068ba2/8776920_oimmU.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nb306d057/8777095_h9AZ7.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N71063e15/8776900_AZICi.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N4706d589/8776879_smJyp.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N0606fd55/8776932_IeF7Z.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Na5066948/8777297_Lg2t9.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1c0612d3/8777147_BsfaJ.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N990698bb/8776874_ILdP9.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N79064bd5/8776940_18QUM.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N960673dd/8777052_RIWg2.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/u0006add1/8777102_fw0mf.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne906ace0/8776943_vLDn4.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nf606330e/8777096_T2ybw.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3e06e242/8777146_B4R3W.jpeg
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http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nac069ebf/8776955_2JbEN.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N60066848/8777110_U65LD.jpeg
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http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/u850640a7/8777109_YDVZm.jpeg
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http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne8066b74/8777123_zJqZp.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1b06869f/8777121_KoBMg.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nc0066995/8777115_8kkql.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6206a858/8777120_2eDsG.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6606cd6d/8777126_uycH0.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nf906b33a/8777135_ZknaZ.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N5b06ae84/8777134_gEdV5.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nfe062c0c/8777132_RsZmK.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne0060d9e/8777130_fKt6o.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nad068778/8777149_MVp8D.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Naa062804/8777295_eTeb6.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9506ed47/8777154_sPrfw.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9706f8f7/8777166_HZOKd.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne5067ba8/8777167_K3eHr.jpeg
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http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N2206f8e9/8777196_Azmsz.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6106fb1b/8777290_OfJEA.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6c06c886/8777215_yZy7r.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/uab06528f/8777305_Id6P8.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nae0637ba/8777287_qg0zs.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N84062e71/8777266_JVHz3.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne6064076/8777257_YHNzT.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6b0676c9/8776841_twVCJ.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nc406a040/8777225_zOYWa.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N00060ade/8776847_kP9p7.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N990623c5/8776863_6QDSz.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N510611f1/8777217_yANqR.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N87062ee9/8776872_Zlp7v.jpeg
praia, santiago cont'd:
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N8307931b/9463860_4MQVZ.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N91076fb3/9463907_M7SRT.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N0b07cca8/9463861_D9zIA.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N5507301f/9463856_W0gSJ.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N86070d9a/9463851_METAJ.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9907a3be/9463845_6Zz4Z.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nad0721e7/9463873_YbSE5.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N83078f65/9463881_Crz7H.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nb10723f3/9463896_L4nLu.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nff073cd6/9463900_45zgy.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nde074882/9463884_ameOq.jpeg
St Vincent/Mindelo:
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nce0419fc/6850226_ipELP.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N7904f49c/6850240_y74Z9.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nef040c3f/6850244_ET2CA.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/u3a04ee83/6850291_pGB8r.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N8d048fdc/6850292_YVQBH.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3704744f/6850294_NzjB5.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1804f4ed/6850296_wbRgY.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N4f0459ab/6850297_84J4m.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne704838e/6850298_vpEBt.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nfa0470f5/6850306_kU0Bb.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nad046305/6850307_sz1ii.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N5504c55a/6850309_ki7Wv.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N5a040c88/6850313_OSmtG.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1604878f/6850316_eN9aL.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1904e5c7/6850314_mDU7V.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9504ca40/6850325_GMNOH.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N260499f0/6850336_4pzqa.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nd004f2b5/6850346_22ane.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N0a04c374/6850352_3yI7E.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nc704cc77/6850357_I0lZD.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9c0444cb/6850361_lVFOB.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6804a4b0/6850360_dzGFn.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N8b045ccb/6850363_N1Pt0.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N63043888/6850364_hjjrO.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N21042206/6850369_CBSLk.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nc2046d39/6850372_nnWK8.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nbe04eee4/6850391_OblpF.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3504194b/6850394_kprCd.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9b04d52b/6850407_S05QH.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N7404425f/6850443_ljOAW.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nb50430b7/6982342_pqbDR.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nad042758/6982364_OCJmk.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nd60451dc/6982384_WVnlF.jpeg
---------- Post added 2012-05-05 at 03:16 ----------
Brava:
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N7807966f/10088202_TFOqy.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9307bd23/10088290_dclN4.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Neb07101d/10088737_WNWcn.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N40070380/10089001_Yi2UW.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Na8071c15/10088949_bR453.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nab072e35/10089204_h3QyO.jpeg[/IMG
[IMG]http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N330705c2/10089256_mfoz9.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nac0714a9/10089346_pN1Uh.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ncc07f075/10089948_vu0Ci.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Na207f57d/10090006_h56ZY.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N8c07b068/10090329_fikhz.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9407b4a9/10095543_apzaz.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N02079be3/10095990_P2NiJ.jpeg[COLOR="Silver"]
---------- Post added 2012-05-05 at 03:17 ----------
fogo:
http://www.asemana.publ.cv/IMG/jpg_DSC_0399-3.jpg
http://www.asemana.publ.cv/IMG/jpg_DSC_0467.jpg
http://www.asemana.publ.cv/IMG/jpg_Miss_Simpatia.jpg
http://www.asemana.publ.cv/IMG/jpg_DSC_0514.jpg
http://www.asemana.publ.cv/IMG/jpg_DSC_0220.jpg
http://sp5.fotolog.com/photo/53/40/93/40_amelia/1206270028_f.jpg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Baf093fd4/12044554_YNYGb.jpeg
YeahISaidIt
2012-05-08, 20:17
Are they even an African country? I doubt it
cafman21
2012-05-08, 20:28
Are they even an African country? I doubt it
What do you mean?
Are they even an African country? I doubt it
no, they are an "Afro-Iranian" country...
U are actually sillier than I thought.
http://www.publicenemyafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/WEST-AFRICA.jpg
http://www.addictedtotravel.com/Resources/Images/2008/6/96ec8af9d02140f9a2bfa4185d6ba04d.jpg
Are they even an African country? I doubt it
You got a lot to learn.
---------- Post added 2012-05-08 at 19:39 ----------
no, they are an "Afro-Iranian" country...
U are actually sillier than I thought.
Hahaha, I'm starting think these people with no home countries have really been fucked. The shit they type. Runnin around like Afro militants with their head cut off. "You ain't black" "I'm blacker than black" blackdee black....
Are they even an African country? I doubt it
:ashamed: Ever seen a map of Africa? Gosh I loved it when self-claimed ''afrocentrist'' lack the most banal knowledge of the continent Africa.
Cumayasa
2012-05-08, 20:51
cape verdean mulattas/griffes are really atractive
cape verdean mulattas/griffes are really atractive
What about the fully ssa ones? They are just as attractive. Don't discriminate.
YeahISaidIt
2012-05-09, 14:29
Oh please, you can plope this nation into the Caribbean and no one will know the differebce. Nothing special about Cape Verde in,that regard. They lost most of any trace of African culture so they borrow cultural aspects from the mainland
Oh please, you can plope this nation into the Caribbean and no one will know the differebce. Nothing special about Cape Verde in,that regard. They lost most of any trace of African culture so they borrow cultural aspects from the mainland
Ohh what an insult lol we go over to the mainland and say stuff like "can I borrow this hip movements, I dropped mine in the sea th other day" listen "afro" Iraqi every utilitarian object created in cape verde is African.you Know nothing about the culture...don't have time for Iranians never mind Afro-Iranians
Oh please, you can plope this nation into the Caribbean and no one will know the differebce. Nothing special about Cape Verde in,that regard. They lost most of any trace of African culture so they borrow cultural aspects from the mainland
Stala and Oditous showed me a GREAT deal of VERY intact African culture in cape verde, the only thing they lost is the exact drums from senengambia, but in the end senengambians are not the heaviest drummers, they where able to retain alot of the string and wind tradiditions. I am a musician and also heavily analytical of cultures, specially African based cultures and i can tell you cape verde is not borrowing African culture form the mainland, there was a large retention, also religiously. You should see the thread i made when i was questioning something similar. Stala and Oditous provided alot of very good material, please read up.
So what do you say about Madagascar? It's not African? And should be placed in south india? LOL.
---------- Post added 2012-05-09 at 11:07 ----------
What about the fully ssa ones? They are just as attractive. Don't discriminate.
I don't see that many that look "Full" SSA but im sure there has to be some. What are the scores like for other cape verdeans you share with on 23andme?
Cumayasa
2012-05-10, 02:28
What about the fully ssa ones? They are just as attractive. Don't discriminate.
lol stalita, i didn't see any fully SSA in those pics, that's why :( i don't discriminate :(..so rude :sadcry:
lol stalita, i didn't see any fully SSA in those pics, that's why :( i don't discriminate :(..so rude :sadcry:
Lol...
Some of those people are def in the 90% + range. More than griffe for sure.
Cumayasa
2012-05-10, 18:02
^ yeah, i see a few in these pics.
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N42068ba2/8776920_oimmU.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne906ace0/8776943_vLDn4.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6206a858/8777120_2eDsG.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nde0675f6/8776922_JbeLV.jpeg
ignore the troll stala
looking good:thumbsup::thumbsup: more pic please
I don't see that many that look "Full" SSA but im sure there has to be some. What are the scores like for other cape verdeans you share with on 23andme?
In the pics of Santiago you def see people who are 90% SSA.
23andme is not an accurate pic because it's mostly US based CVs.
---------- Post added 2012-05-12 at 00:02 ----------
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ncd05f07f/7309174_tkAfs.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Na801ec23/4991958_Qrl5J.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1e01d9c2/2959314_dEg7L.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N8001c7e5/2333124_6djKL.jpeg
Rabelados of S.Cruz
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3902178d/2931885_1zgJh.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1e01c566/2959300_1dwj1.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N7b02914d/2959306_IOPwl.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nc60141ec/2959307_Grve0.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N520163a4/2959396_1zceM.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N8a02b666/2959309_TQyZG.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N72010ba9/2959319_9CF05.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne501b1ae/2959329_PtaYZ.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/u76020f18/2959331_qaKu0.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6702d366/2959343_jdsQ0.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N7e025d4d/2959344_yGDoz.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3d02188e/2959356_zGMCc.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N4b01afb0/2959362_ssitS.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1001fccc/2959368_qrLsn.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3102ed5e/2959387_FaZJH.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N14011132/2959395_nszim.jpeg
Rabelados of S.Cruz- The Rabelados (from the Portuguese rebelados, "rebels") were a religious community primarily found in the interior of the island of Santiago of Cape Verde.
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3902178d/2931885_1zgJh.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1e01c566/2959300_1dwj1.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N7b02914d/2959306_IOPwl.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nc60141ec/2959307_Grve0.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N520163a4/2959396_1zceM.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N8a02b666/2959309_TQyZG.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N72010ba9/2959319_9CF05.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne501b1ae/2959329_PtaYZ.jpeg
http://c3.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/u76020f18/2959331_qaKu0.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N6702d366/2959343_jdsQ0.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N7e025d4d/2959344_yGDoz.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3d02188e/2959356_zGMCc.jpeg
http://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N4b01afb0/2959362_ssitS.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N1001fccc/2959368_qrLsn.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3102ed5e/2959387_FaZJH.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N14011132/2959395_nszim.jpeg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nc5050c8b/7677855_7QK22.jpeg
Rabelado artwork:
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nad05bff4/7605963_PqZkK.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nb305b892/7605941_nDy3y.jpeg
Current Chief of the Rabelados:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DLRhDCSmgHQ/RouNw89tP7I/AAAAAAAAAMA/x9tFPS46vus/s400/blog9.JPG
Rabidantes are mostly female informal sellers in Cape Verde they are a very strong economic force many have pulled themselves out of poverty and have moved their families into middle class and upper class:
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Nef05cfc5/7634943_Fc51m.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N9405f485/7605936_QRSTQ.jpeg
http://c2.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N5b059ad1/7634946_JeZeT.jpeg
http://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N19056263/7634950_eiY9N.jpeg
http://c1.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ndb05feef/7639330_UGZpo.jpeg
http://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N97050c1b/7639335_ipzc4.jpeg
http://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N4705caad/7639341_8RuTy.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne2053b93/7634924_YD4AO.jpeg
http://c4.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/N3f05996e/7634919_Bclta.jpeg
http://c6.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ncd055f3d/7634884_VaE2u.jpeg
This is a Brazilian new report on them:
http://tvbrasil.ebc.com.br/reporterbrasil/video/2784/
Praia
http://www.krioljazzfestival.com/pics/upload/photo_kolabeat_1.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6027/5961796224_d78524c732_z.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6091/6348446686_a06f504785_z.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6195/6127862788_02141df980_b.jpg
Sal
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6095/6254593390_3a5a7aba1c_z.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/6908775724_c0321d7d0e_b.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5114/7054825731_b676ff9b3a_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7270/6912608958_3934002421_b.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6107/6266102693_4c9408d49e_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5334/7092974299_8e16b04a8c_b.jpg
St Antao
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6045/5891027042_d6a243c5ae_z.jpg
not sure where:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5066/5891002834_cb7993978d_z.jpg
http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/5-Cape-Verdean-kids-all-love-to-have-their-photo-taken..jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6099/5890733648_bc96d486f0_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5262/5890116273_2d989d2578_z.jpg
http://www.helpcapeverde.org/wp-content/files_flutter/th_76e6e29d26a11d823c7f442c20426f86_1256797768_4_1 _1_2_post_image.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6023/5890618084_302340eaa7_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5036/5888751682_a33db14340_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5116/5890589410_76e573ce6a_z.jpg
---------- Post added 2012-05-13 at 15:39 ----------
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7080/7159726878_dd76c14404_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8146/7007739672_6af063e822_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7131/7007694482_a977e2f04f_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8008/7153853291_cfedc20415_b.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5279/7007788378_0d25be809d_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8027/6975620280_7d763ff0bb_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/6979348918_14aa819222_b.jpg
---------- Post added 2012-05-13 at 15:40 ----------[COLOR="Silver"]
---------- Post added 2012-05-13 at 15:59 ----------
Fogo:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7241/7121954879_839eaa3012_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7135/6975854392_83f0c21327_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7212/7121931963_5931cae82c_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7259/6975858538_20db012c63_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8023/6975856906_281ece4413_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8167/7121905891_cfbe903b05_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8022/6975813746_faa975eb57_b.jpg
---------- Post added 2012-05-13 at 15:59 ----------[COLOR="Silver"]
---------- Post added 2012-05-13 at 16:07 ----------
Senegambian immigrants living in Cape Verde, I think we def look like them:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7264/7092971075_e7034c757e_b.jpg
http://www.orca-diveclub-caboverde.com/images/kapverden_sal_destination_01.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6055/6331323695_f4866ab32a_b.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6035/6331323493_ca45ee7cbc_b.jpg
Many of them resemble afro-brazilians, is the average Cape Verdean Mulatto or Griffe?
Many of them resemble afro-brazilians, is the average Cape Verdean Mulatto or Griffe?
the last study done of all the islands, not counting the more numerous diaspora, concluded 43 "euro" and 57 ssa. I would say on Santiago the average is griffe and. On the other islands probably mulatto.
U.S.A based CV, which outnumber the country, I would say mostly mulattos and quads with about 15-20% or so griffes.
I don't think there has been a comprehensive study CV and its Diasporas yet.
Who knows...I happen to think we don't really look extremely mixed.
In general you don't get extreme shifts in looks....we have progressive(i don't mean progressive in the dumb way it's used in this forum) look from the southern to the northern islands. You can tell a fully SSA CV as much as you can tell a quadroon. I think on our African end we come from the same populations.
This is your average crowd in Praia, Santiago:
http://elf.georgetown.edu/highlights/africa_highlights/Lopez,%20Daniel%20-%20highlight%201%20picture%202.JPG
---------- Post added 2012-05-13 at 16:52 ----------
Fogo:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZBF1Y2J8yYg/SXCuf2R6S3I/AAAAAAAACxU/1ouKa_AyDK4/s640/Ilha+do+Fogo,+Cabo+Verde_Wolfgang+Schmidt.jpg
http://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Ne50682fc/8390575_URI6K.jpeg
http://www.kraussmartin.de/KVeV/Pr09/Estrelas-stehend.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2sWXF8VGWZw/SVhJVVTYtdI/AAAAAAAAG5w/k1nRW1qbpE4/s400/Fogo+(430).jpg
http://bp1.blogger.com/_LkG68OxPrKU/R261njN3FkI/AAAAAAAAAFE/ErlthXl8GjU/s400/Vendedora+de+legumes+com+o+filho+no+mercado+-+Ilha+do+Fogo.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-OKeBnMDIev8/TuDWmEvTJmI/AAAAAAAAB-I/Af2LBMfgOGM/s720/Cape%2520Verde%2520-%2520Burns%252C%2520Kerry%2520David%2520-%2520SV-Workshop3.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-FOUMbbszJks/SBf6_q3aGoI/AAAAAAAAdaI/d4GIkZOjvQE/s720/IMG_1539.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-bCLXVEQq0lU/Swwx0TMiirI/AAAAAAAAELM/HBfu1FIZd1A/s720/IMG_2009_11_15_2651-1.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-vfYCf_vOIUI/R9-PJ7yAM0I/AAAAAAAAab0/D_yQ2ZSDU7s/s480/Aminah%2520Pilgrim.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-uyn4p7vCcoE/R9-QXryAM-I/AAAAAAAAaeE/FTOPwabOIb0/s720/IMG_5076.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-j-bXPa02lMc/RPKEHxICABI/AAAAAAAAClA/MuPNZgm6nmc/s512/IMG_3122.JPG
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-tjexeBLOqLQ/SZtjr6mo0II/AAAAAAAA2Jw/ktc52WhLXRo/s640/IMG_7718.JPG
http://lh6.ggpht.com/--uPI6-XvRpE/Rb9Ac6_PM8I/AAAAAAAAGDA/_GGQfmAm_YY/s512/IMG_0733.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-Yi6OsrQZy3E/SBfeFK3aFsI/AAAAAAAAdK8/LKp6hyONQ6I/s720/IMG_1424.JPG
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-Sk7WWMn1T0M/SHFfeBAkuMI/AAAAAAAAiHY/P8TNDeiX8bE/s576/IMG_0081.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-4ZjuBgew0UE/SIAOazF0YtI/AAAAAAAAjD8/nvkFu49BtSU/s720/IMG_3188.JPG
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-iJLht2AehFY/SycZrepdADI/AAAAAAABKUE/_YtkkG1dgis/s512/IMG_4636.JPG
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-zvdEOWMOAfo/RjX57oujgDI/AAAAAAAAHf0/nn5powA6SIM/s912/IMG_5137.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-UU_wBWVB4oE/RbTAAa_PMqI/AAAAAAAAF_c/HYntFnt8YAQ/s640/IMG_0711.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-7jDVTs9HUuo/Rwqe6cd-IqI/AAAAAAAAOMU/GZOmSp2qYZk/s640/IMG_3165.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-hvtanCo_d1E/Sn-nE6ZpoUI/AAAAAAAAMPg/RvOZEquPD7E/s640/IMG_0263.JPG
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-PPm7tLaSsgU/R2Xidtl-MXI/AAAAAAAATTI/-JKy9UKF6IU/s512/IMG_9216.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-y9wXmqw4q00/RyzZlxKoa4I/AAAAAAAAC_U/qy_N6qsfhZ0/s640/DSC01023.JPG
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-asC1cjq5jFE/R2XiV9l-MUI/AAAAAAAATSk/YQ-J3cah2hY/s512/IMG_9211.JPGhttp://lh4.ggpht.com/-Re7fe_9pawM/SBf61q3aGYI/AAAAAAAAdXI/rpmZup50Wkw/s512/IMG_1495.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-_61vg8J3R3I/Ts19lF7D76I/AAAAAAAADfs/DJ1dW8IOIHg/s720/IMG_6032.jpg
---------- Post added 2012-05-13 at 18:08 ----------
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-3xO-pV2VzXA/TNGOjYGxvxI/AAAAAAAAADA/0zrd9LX8Gq8/s640/Cape%2520Verde%25208th%2520grade%2520year%25201.jp g
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-xN0BOlcDawA/Sg5U3nwHrfI/AAAAAAAAA1U/PO0rtpOkncA/s640/cabo%2520verde%2520pictures%2520450.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-iTrMm3XlI4g/TUbAE0WHYmI/AAAAAAAAAMw/QMM2KFn_fHo/s720/IMG_4392.JPG
---------- Post added 2012-05-13 at 18:19 ----------
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-3xO-pV2VzXA/TNGOjYGxvxI/AAAAAAAAADA/0zrd9LX8Gq8/s640/Cape%2520Verde%25208th%2520grade%2520year%25201.jp g[/IMG
[IMG]http://lh3.ggpht.com/-UPfOoNXdduA/RqSK1byNX-I/AAAAAAAACF0/aFDaNJ9D0p8/s640/Casamento%2520de%2520Cabral%2520e%2520Paula%252008 1.jpg
Cape Verdeans in France:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nuofH_tBTc&feature=related[COLOR="Silver"]
---------- Post added 2012-05-14 at 00:28 ----------
Baia das Gatas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnMng8I7jA&feature=related) music festival, backstage House party
Love "Strela" Ferias 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxH98Qs0YcY)(probably one of the biggest House music parties in AFrica)
part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-hFOV4dGzY&feature=relmfu)
People from Cha das Caldeiras, Fogo. They live in a village at the foot of an active volcano.
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4013/4282198260_958b56585d_b.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2688/4282201906_2746186443_b.jpg
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/221/499549976_c9e5c8cdf4.jpg
http://bobtoomy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/1230-Mother-and-daughter-2-600x441.jpg
http://bobtoomy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/1230-Mother-and-daughter-1-600x421.jpg
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/207/499549964_28131bf1a4.jpg
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4074/4892901929_3e5f803890_m.jpg
http://topicos123.com/FOTOS/Atopicos2.jpg
http://imworld.aufeminin.com/dossiers/d20070220/d1145i31120h091200.jpg
http://www.markusleukel.de/BILDER/CABO_VERDE/Estrelas-do-Fogo.JPG
http://membres.multimania.fr/mbichard/capvert/images/fogo%20enfants%20blonds.jpg
http://www.bp-reiseberichte.de/sal/kap74.jpg
http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/17695/wm/pd1184442.jpg
http://estaticos02.cache.el-mundo.net/suplementos/imagenes/2005/08/19/1124463846_0.jpg
http://www.turismo-solidario.es/africa/imagesWeb/121/Mariza1_1210762147605.jpg
http://kapverden.soultours.ch/sites/default/files/images/Mdchen_Cha_das_Caldeiras_Fogo_0.JPG
http://www.bp-reiseberichte.de/sal/kap72.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2781/4532385780_c9f9a157e0_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7044/6880044774_b16d662075_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7017/6588892893_c705dfb039_m.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7154/6743287793_6cb2215663_m.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/112/279416657_5a04ff717f.jpg
http://www.gregoryrohart.com/img/fogo/CapVert-GregoryRohart-9.jpg
http://ipt.olhares.com/data/big/404/4040054.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9xJNaCf3C0Y/Sxezt7NCMXI/AAAAAAAAABs/KO7WL3NXzFM/s320/Imagem+265.jpg
http://cdnstatic-1.mydestination.com/Photos/Articles/367/20110704-113854.FullSize.jpg
Their traditional Hut
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2684/4532390750_8e9351071d_b.jpg
http://www.geo.de/reisen/community/bild/regular/271944/Fogo.jpg
http://www.voyagevirtuel.co.uk/cap-vert/images/fogo-cha-de-caldeiras-jeune-vendeur-de-souvenirs-37.jpg
http://www.voyagevirtuel.co.uk/cap-vert/images/fogo-market-mercado-sao-filipe-femme-aux-oeufs-5.jpg
http://www.voyagevirtuel.co.uk/cap-vert/images/fogo-sao-jorge-porteuses-de-pierres-5.jpg
http://www.voyagevirtuel.co.uk/cap-vert/images/sao-vicente-mindelo-poissons-sur-la-tete-219.jpg
http://www.voyagevirtuel.co.uk/cap-vert/images/sao-antao-paul-la-femme-en-noir-82.jpg
http://www.voyagevirtuel.co.uk/cap-vert/images/sao-antao-cha-de-igreja-jeux-d-enfants-15.jpg
http://www.voyagevirtuel.co.uk/cap-vert/images/santiago-tarrafal-preparation-du-poisson-48.jpg
http://www.voyagevirtuel.co.uk/cap-vert/images/santiago-tarrafal-beaute-aux-boucles-d-oreille-8.jpg
http://www.voyagevirtuel.co.uk/cap-vert/images/sao-antao-cocculi-histoire-de-filles-6.jpg
the last study done of all the islands, not counting the more numerous diaspora, concluded 43 "euro" and 57 ssa. I would say on Santiago the average is griffe and. On the other islands probably mulatto.
U.S.A based CV, which outnumber the country, I would say mostly mulattos and quads with about 15-20% or so griffes.
I don't think there has been a comprehensive study CV and its Diasporas yet.
Who knows...I happen to think we don't really look extremely mixed.
In general you don't get extreme shifts in looks....we have progressive(i don't mean progressive in the dumb way it's used in this forum) look from the southern to the northern islands. You can tell a fully SSA CV as much as you can tell a quadroon. I think on our African end we come from the same populations.
This is your average crowd in Praia, Santiago:
http://elf.georgetown.edu/highlights/africa_highlights/Lopez,%20Daniel%20-%20highlight%201%20picture%202.JPG[COLOR="Silver"]
Well, there's quite some variation in phenotype though. Some even look pseudo-triracial (as if there were amerind input)! :D
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7241/7121954879_839eaa3012_b.jpg
^Like the woman in this pic for instance.
Well, there's quite some variation in phenotype though. Some even look pseudo-triracial (as if there were amerind input)! :D
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7241/7121954879_839eaa3012_b.jpg
^Like the woman in this pic for instance.
You have to remember I'm jumping from island to island. For intances you may get a an extreme end of the spectrum in a village in fogo vs. a village in santiago. However all in all i'm talking more about the average. Interisland mixing is producing a uniform look.
---------- Post added 2012-05-15 at 21:53 ----------
People who have the amerind look, pretty much get it from them:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7264/7092971075_e7034c757e_b.jpg
You have to remember I'm jumping from island to island. For intances you may get a an extreme end of the spectrum in a village in fogo vs. a village in santiago. However all in all i'm talking more about the average. Interisland mixing is producing a uniform look.
---------- Post added 2012-05-15 at 21:53 ----------
People who have the amerind look, pretty much get it from them:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7264/7092971075_e7034c757e_b.jpg
Haha yes I figured it didn't come from their euro side ;)
Why is Cape Verde so Poor??
Why is Cape Verde so Poor??
It's actually not that poor... tourists like to take pics of rural poor people.
It's probably has one of the top HDIs in Africa.
Literacy is virtually universal.
Poor is when we were under the the Portuguese.
When the Portuguese left 37(or so) years ago they left 5 cents in the national bank and 20% literacy.
---------- Post added 2012-05-15 at 22:24 ----------
Article:
Cape Verde: no resources, no problem
By David Lewis
PRAIA | Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:10pm BST
(Reuters) - For a small string of barren volcanic islands that have no natural resources, suffer from chronic droughts and are perched far off Africa's west coast, Cape Verde is punching well above its weight.
Unscathed by conflict or political instability, the country has quietly become a middle-income nation and looks set to be one of few in Africa to meet any of the Millennium Development Goals set for measuring progress in improving livelihoods.
In return for special deals on economic and political cooperation with Europe, it increasingly plays a trouble-fixing role on the more unruly mainland some 400 kms (250 miles) away.
It hopes to turn its location to its advantage by becoming a springboard for business in West Africa. And it thinks tourist numbers could soon match the country's population.
"The fact that we don't have resources has made us be creative," Fatima Fialho, Cape Verde's minister for tourism, industry and energy, told Reuters.
"We are an economy in transformation -- moving from one of (aid) to one of production," she added, detailing plans for a service-based economy focusing on shipping and fisheries, providing a hub for technology and finance, and tourism.
Economic growth for 2010 will be 5-6 percent, she said.
The country is not without its challenges. The lack of rain still means over three quarters of its food is imported.
Cape Verde's response to the financial crisis has been to accelerate its public investment program, known locally as the nation's "air bag." This has delivered an impressive upgrade of infrastructure, but also rising debt levels.
Fitch ratings said in May a fiscal deficit of 12 percent of GDP in 2010 and 2011, and central government debt at 78 percent of GDP by the end of next year, should ensure long-term growth but will increase pressure for sound management.
POOR, BUT SUCCESSFUL
After other African nations with similarly small populations but far higher revenues, mainly from oil, failed to use vast sums of money to benefit the country outside a tight-knit elite, the nation is being heralded as a non-resource success story.
In April, the African Development Bank (AfDB) called Cape Verde the first African case of "policy induced graduation."
"Here is evidence that no matter how bad the initial conditions, with good governance, solid institutions, and a peaceful political and social climate, take-off is possible," Donald Kaberuka, AfDB group president, said during a visit.
Ahead of elections next year, Jorge Santos, deputy head of the MpD opposition party, is quick to express confidence in the political system, saying there is no comparison in the region.
Donor aid has played a key role in its success.
But so too have payments from its diaspora -- believed to be double the 500,000 Cape Verdeans living at home. Many left the country due to hardship there and, spread out across the globe, send millions to families back home every month.
Even after taking a hit from the global crisis, remittances amounted to 132 million euros ($172 million) in 2009, having averaged 12.3 percent of GDP between 1999-2008, according to the AfDB.
But Fialho said that tourism has just overtaken remittances as the biggest contributor to the economy at around 20 percent of GDP: "This is an important shift."
Ever since Italian dictator Benito Mussolini built the first airport on the island of Sal, Italians have dominated tourism there. Charter flights from around Europe jet in to a number of gleaming new airports, ferrying most of the 330,000 tourists in 2009 to all-inclusive hotels on sun-blessed beaches.
Some in the industry grumble that vast hotels, like a 4,500-bed all inclusive resort being built for Spanish firm Riu on Boa Vista, are wrecking the charm of the islands.
"This is not very good for local communities -- they only stay in the hotels. They don't learn about our cultures ... we must not move too fast," said Lindorfo Olivio Marques Ortet, who owns a hotel for walkers in mist-shrouded hills above Praia.
But Fialho argues that mass tourism was essential to get the country on the map, and the focus is now on improving services to meet a target of 500,000 visitors a year by 2012.
LINK TO THE REGION
Uninhabited until it was discovered by Portuguese mariners in the 1450s, the country's population is a mix of settlers and former slaves, a combination that means tribalism is not an issue.
Yet many speak of Africa as a separate continent and have far more links with Europe or the Americas. The national airline, for example, flies directly to Brazil, the United States and a number of airports across Europe, but just one in Africa.
The islands, however, are becoming an increasingly important strategic partner for the African mainland but also for outsiders looking to strengthen their African links.
"What Cape Verde can bring to the region is a bridge," Foreign Minister Jose Brito told Reuters.
A visit by Brazil's President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva in July highlighted the role Cape Verde could play as a springboard into West Africa. But Europeans and the United States also see the country as barrier against the flow of drugs and people.
Cape Verde was the first West African nation used to transit cocaine headed to Europe, and has since been widely praised for cracking down on corruption and improving law enforcement.
In July, it helped the United States by receiving a Syrian prisoner from Guantanamo Bay. The country is also increasingly active in seeking to resolve African conflicts, such as in Guinea-Bissau.
In return, Praia has secured a special partnership with Europe and is the first country to be made eligible for a second round of funding from the U.S. Millennium Challenge Corporation.
Brito said it was in Europe's interests to have a special relationship with Cape Verde, especially in having a real partner in fighting crime, and the country would seek to meet EU standards, but was not looking to join the institution.
"We are an African country ... Cape Verde cannot be alone, separate from what is happening in (the region)."
The remarkable economic and political progress of Cape Verde is seen as a blueprint for the rest of Africa, writes BBC Today programme presenter Evan Davis after a visit to the tiny island state.
Contrary to the impression you might have had of African nations, here is one where democracy flourishes
I have to admit, I couldn't have told you three interesting facts about Cape Verde until I was asked to go there for the Today programme.
I didn't know where it was - 570km (354 miles) off the coast of West Africa. I didn't even know how to pronounce its name.
And then I found myself sent there on a three-day mission to investigate a startling story: That sub-Saharan Africa is not just a region of starving children and warring dictators.
The assignment was at the behest of guest editor Mo Ibrahim who strongly feels that the Western media portrays Africa in a monotonously negative light. Could that really be true?
Well, my ignorance of how to pronounce Cape Verde's name is forgivable. (I'm still not sure and have heard it pronounced with and without an "ee" at the end of Verde.)
But is it forgivable that I didn't know it is one of only a handful of countries ever to have been promoted out of the UN "least developed nation" category (up to "middle income country" status)? And that it is a well-functioning democracy with government alternating between different political parties?
I should have known these things, and I'm glad to say that my three-day trip more or less confirmed them.
Young Cape Verdeans can expect far better education than their parents
Contrary to the impression you might have had of African nations, here is one where democracy flourishes; where a president stepped down after two terms in office because that is what the constitution required (take note Mr Putin) and where the opposition freely criticises the government.
It is a country where economic growth has been strong, where literacy is almost universal and two-thirds of the population have a phone.
It is also a country that beats many EU countries in the Transparency International Corruptions Perceptions Index.
Now on a three-day trip, you cannot verify all these assertions but you can get a clear impression.
I went to a square in the capital, Praia, where I saw a dozen young people poring over their laptops, taking advantage of the free wi-fi available in that and other squares.
I saw a tourism training college that had been paid for by Luxembourg's aid programme. It functioned well, there were real students there and no money had gone missing into a Swiss bank account.
I spoke to the founder of a small e-business called Prime Consulting, who spoke highly of the ease with which new business could be established in the country (it takes ten minutes he said).
Property bubbles
These facts - and my lack of awareness of them - suggest there may be something in Mo Ibrahim's point. We know the bad news about Africa, but not the good.
And given the sheer volume of bad that emanates from countries in sub-Saharan Africa, we make generalised assumptions about the entire population of sub-Saharan Africa.
Evan makes use of a free wi-fi hotspot in Praia
Now I don't want to paint a ludicrously one-dimensionally optimistic view of the country. It is no paradise.
Many people live in slums. The country is covered in them. The national income per head is about a tenth of that of the UK and I didn't even get out of the towns to see the rural poor.
In addition, some of the recent economic growth appears to have occurred on the back of a ridiculous holiday-property bubble. Irish, British and other investors got overexcited and the result is that many unfinished developments litter the main tourist island of Sal.
But still Cape Verde has come a long way over a short period of time. It is a country that had famines killing tens of thousands of people in the first half of the 20th Century that now worries about property bubbles.
The most telling conversation I had there was with Samira who told me that while her mother had not been to high school (there weren't enough of them at the time) but she, Samira, now goes to university.
It is true that Cape Verde is an unusual off-shore example, but before dismissing it as the exception that proves the rule that the rest of Africa is beyond help or hope, it is worth taking a look at the statistics for per capita national income growth of sub-Saharan African countries over the last decade: Ghana 104% growth; Mozambique 103%; Rwanda 119%; Sierra Leone 99%; Tanzania 95%; Uganda 81%, to name just a few.
I'm not sure these growth rates have made it through to the public at large.
We wouldn't want reporters to act as cheer leaders for a continent and we don't want them to always be seeing glasses as half full. That would perhaps stop us trying fill them to the top.
But if we only ever see half empty glasses, that can be demotivating too. It can nurture a dull fatalism that assumes doing anything is a waste of effort.
So whenever you feel the wearisome drag of compassion fatigue, you can at least remind yourself that Cape Verde does suggest progress in that part of the world is not impossible.
^^HDI =/= Wealth.
But still, i get ur point.
^^HDI =/= Wealth.
But still, i get ur point.
Are you talking GDP per capita? The average person EG is worse off than the average Cv. Wealth means little in Africa.
Yeah, that is another reason HDI was not the same as wealth.
And I was asking why CV was poor.
Lack of resources??
A population not ready to work, and looking for the next possible opportunity to emmigrate out of the country.?? .......Etc
These are some of the few reasons I have researched.
Yeah, that is another reason HDI was not the same as wealth.
.
Even though HDI is not the end all be all it is a better indicator than just GDP. IMO the wealth of a nation is how the people are doing.
The HDI combined three dimensions up until its 2011 report:
Life expectancy at birth, as an index of population health and longevity
Knowledge and education, as measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weighting) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrollment ratio (with one-third weighting).
Standard of living, as indicated by the natural logarithm of gross domestic product per capita at purchasing power parity.
And I was asking why CV was poor.
This is relative....poor when compared America, yes. But poor when compared to our region or AFrica I don't think so. The average Cape Verdean has better quality of life than 90% of Africa(in the terms we are discussing)
Lack of resources??.
There are no natural resources....because that's the hand we were dealt. I don't think it a bad thing. We would probably be worse off if we did.
A population not ready to work, and looking for the next possible opportunity to emmigrate out of the country.?? .......Etc
Actually this is not the case anymore ... or it's not anymore than your average middle/income developing country. the trend has in a way reverses many have returned.
What do you mean "population not ready to work"?
Cape Verde wants emigrants back
afrol News, 21 May - Cape Verdean Prime Minister José Maria Neves on an official visit to the United States has met with the Diaspora and Cape Verdean students in the US, asking the many skilled emigrants to return to the archipelago, promising them tempting business opportunities.
Speaking to emigrated countrymen at the Bridgewater State University, PM Neves made it clear that the large Cape Verdean Diaspora was needed at home for its skills. It is estimated that far more Cape Verdeans live abroad than on the economically successful West African archipelago, especially in the US and in Europe.
"Obviously," Mr Neves said, currently "Cape Verde has a multitude of business opportunities within a vast range of sectors." The rapid economic development of the last decade had transformed the island state into a "modern and competitive country," he emphasised.
He told the Cape Verdean Diaspora that skilled labour was now needed at home as his government was about to transform the country into "a large business and services platform within the sectors of tourism, transport and new technologies."
The Cape Verdean Diaspora has traditionally contributed greatly to the country's development, aiding families at home with cash transfers, but also by investing in the country. Large numbers have invested in a holiday house on the archipelago, regularly visiting their home island, but few have taken the step of moving back home.
Now, Mr Neves wants to attract both new investments and skilled labour, presenting a new programme to reach these goals. Regarding investments, the Prime Minister announced reduced tax and customs rates for emigrants wanting to do business in Cape Verde. Also government subsidies - as was the case in the recent establishment of the "Cabo Verde Fast Ferry" by two US-based Cape Verdeans - could be made available, especially within the transport sector.
Among the skills desperately needed in Cape Verde, Mr Neves referred to recent government programmes to promote new technologies. Government and private businesses had invested large sums in transforming the archipelago into a major centre for IT-based services. Cape Verde was already the African leader in the field of e-government, Mr Neves held.
Renewable energies is another sector government currently was promoting, Mr Neves told emigrants. Sun, wind and waves provided unlimited resources for energy development and production on the archipelago, but there was a need for further private investments and skilled labour.
Prime Minister Neves told emigrants that government had thoroughly transformed the home country, making it attractive for investments and labour. Government had "modernised infrastructures and improved conditions for investments." Red tape had been drastically reduced and by now, it was possible to "create a company within a few hours," the PM boasted.
These are some of the few reasons I have researched.
Some of those articles are outdated.
---------- Post added 2012-05-17 at 02:47 ----------
We are not that bad off...as long as our government is doing the right things we will do very well.
Cape Verde is second best governed country in Africa
[2011-11-15]
Source: Macauhub
Praia, Cape Verde, 15 Nov - Cape Verde is the second best governed country in Africa with a rating of 79 points out of 100, behind Mauritius, with 82 points, according to a report from the Mo Ibrahim Foundation cited by pan-African news agency Panapress.
The agency also said that Cape Verde had been ranked first out of 53 countries in the “Participation and Human Rights” category, in which it achieved 78 points.
“The countries classified in the first five places for overall governance” Mauritius (82 points), Cape Verde (79), Botswana (76), Seychelles (73) and South Africa (71) have, thus far, seen a high performance in all four of the categories analysed, the Ibrahim Foundation report said.
This index, which was created in 2007 by the Mo Ibrahim Foundation, an organisation set up by British businessman of Sudanese origin Mohamed Ibrahim to support good governance and excellence in leadership in Africa, measures the distribution of goods and public services through 86 indicators.
Last October, the Mo Ibrahim Foundation awarded its African Leadership Prize to the former President of Cape Verde, Pedro Pires, for having turned the country into a “model of democracy, stability and prosperity.”
The Mo Ibrahim Prize for African Leadership, with a fund of US$5 million provided over 10 years and a lifetime payment of US$200,000 per year, is granted to a former democratically-elected African president who fulfilled his/her term of office in line with the limits set by the constitution of his/her country and has left a position of power in the last three years, having demonstrated excellence during their service.
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Morgan Freemans' twinbrother? :lol:
Model Raquel Pinto
http://www.asemana.publ.cv/IMG/jpg_h-11.jpg
http://www.asemana.publ.cv/IMG/jpg_k-9.jpg
---------- Post added 2012-06-12 at 01:35 ----------
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---------- Post added 2012-06-13 at 03:28 ----------
People from Maio, Maio is the least populates island in Cape Verde. There is probably less than 6000(natives) of Maio. They are probably the most SSA DNA wise, but since their numbers are so small they are not usually mentioned.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-K_9eqVC_FZU/T7KXxLzS3MI/AAAAAAAAAZs/eDmrZ3HSedc/s1600/bl13365179632575%2Bc%25C3%25B3pia.jpg
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That´s a local USA CV´s team right? The national team couldn´t make it...:whoco:
Two days before the Haiti match, the Crimson will face off against a team of local Cape Verdean all stars to benefit the Cape Verdean Football Federation and Coaches Across Continents, an award-winning global development group launched by Harvard graduates that uses soccer as a teaching tool in African villages.
Visa denials kept the Cape Verdean national team from traveling to the U.S. for a match against Harvard. The Cape Verdean All Stars game kicks off on Friday at 7 p.m.
Here´s a recent pic of the national squad, it actually also has some dutch born CV´s in it.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/1108212013_desporto-0301.jpg
These are 3 CV descended players (besides Ronaldo ;)) in the current Portuguese selection for EURO 2012. They were pretty crucial in yesterday´s match against denmark.
Nani
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/40081_1323_2012515162040259.jpg
Silvestre Varela
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/40082_1323_2012515162040671.jpg
Rolando
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/40084_1323.jpg
That´s a local USA CV´s team right? The national team couldn´t make it...:whoco:
Nope that's not the local as far as I know that's some of the team members who could make it.
You sure? i don´t recognize anyone from that pic..
Also forcv mentioned that the players are all from new england...
Apesar da recusa de vistos a 8 jogadores da seleção caboverdiana, o grande embate com a equipa da Harvard vai acontecer, agora com a seleção dos All Stars dos caboverdianos da Nova Inglaterra.
“A equipa de futebol de Harvard vai homenagear o seu compromisso para organizar uma partida de angariação de fundos para a Federação Caboverdiana de Futebol e treinadores nos dois” garantiu o treinador de Harvard Crimson, Carl Junot, à FORCV esta tarde. “E vamos envolver a comunidade cabo-verdiana da Nova Inglaterra com a mesmo grau de importância”.
Junot salientou que “a seleção nacional de Cabo Verde não vai visitar Harvard devido à recusa do visto. Vamos substituir a equipa nacional com a seleção dos All Star composta por jogadores das lifgas caboverdianos de Nova Inglaterra. Os detalhes serão anunciados para breve”.
“Além do jogo, ainda pretendemos organizar um actividade antes da partida chamada "Fan Zone" (Zona de Fãs) que irá celebrar a cultura caboverdiana aqui na Nova Inglaterra”. Anunciou Junot. “O horário do pontapé de saída e planos para venda de bilhetes contnuam o mesmo”.
Maybe I confusing them. Anyway we would probaly easily qualify for the WC if all of our players played for the national team. Including evra...lol Per capita we must have one the highest number of professional players playing the big leagues?
Per capita we must have one the highest number of professional players playing the big leagues?
Lol i think you might be right, in the 90´s and early 00´s it was probably Surinam with starplayers like Davids, Seedorf, Bogarde, Reiziger, Vanenburg and also half surinamese players like Gullit and Rijckaard. But in the late 00´s and 10´s it might be CV with Nani, Miguel, Rolando, Varela and also half CV players like Evra asnd Patrick Vieira. (and those with distant CV ancestry like Ronaldo ;))
. Anyway we would probaly easily qualify for the WC if all of our players played for the national team. Including Evra...
No doubt! who do you think looks more CV, Patrice Evra or Patrick Vieira? They are both Senegalese born (and also largely identify as such besides their French citizenship) but they both have CV mothers. Patrick Vieira´s father is Gabonese
Vieira: My Autobiography by Patrick Vieira with Debbie Beckerman
Sung by Arsenal supporters to the tune of Volare, this became one of the most famous of English football chants. A star at the club from 1996 until 2005, Vieira did come from Senegal before emigrating to France as a child. But his father, whom he never knew, was from Gabon, while his mother came from the Cape Verde island
And Evra´s father is either Senegalese or Guinean (Conakry)
Evra was born in Dakar, the capital city of Senegal, to a Senegalese father of Guinean descent and Juliette, a Cape Verdean mother.
Patrice Evra
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/folder-3.jpg
Patrick Vieira
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/folder-4.jpg
Veira wins it slightly...because I've seen all kinds of versions of him in CV. However, Evra looks very CV also...he just has a general CV look, especially around the eyes.
I believe Evra's father is Senegalese. I read it in an interview.
---------- Post added 2012-06-15 at 22:55 ----------
Lol i think you might be right, in the 90´s and early 00´s it was probably Surinam with starplayers like Davids, Seedorf, Bogarde, Reiziger, Vanenburg and also half surinamese players like Gullit and Rijckaard. But in the late 00´s and 10´s it might be CV with Nani, Miguel, Rolando, Varela and also half CV players like Evra asnd Patrick Vieira. (and those with distant CV ancestry like Ronaldo ;))
Which Ronaldo?
Veira wins it slightly...because I've seen all kinds of versions of him in CV. However, Evra looks very CV also...he just has a general CV look, especially around the eyes.
That's funny, it's exactly the eyes which make Evra less CV looking to me :D Maybe it's the spacing in between. Agreed on Vieira having a pan-CV look.
Which Ronaldo?
Cristiano of course!:lol:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Africa/ronaldocv.jpg
Here's confirmation that his CV great grandmother is indeed from Praia, there were some earlier sources mentioning S. Vicente as her birthplace.
Na capital madeirense, perdeu-se de amores pela caboverdiana Rosa Isabel da Piedade, doméstica, ao que tudo indica criada de servir numa casa situada na Travessa das Capuchinhas, na freguesia de São Pedro.
Rosa Isabel da Piedade, filha de Rosa Maria dos Santos e de pai incógnito, era natural da freguesia da Graça, cidade da Praia, Cabo Verde, de onde terá saído com a idade de 16 anos com destino à Madeira.
Do relacionamento entre José de Aveiro e Rosa Isabel nasceu a 23 de Abril de 1924 um filho, Jorge de Aveiro, que viria a ser legitimado aquando do seu casamento no dia 20 de março de 1926 na Conservatória do Registo Civil do Funchal. Depois do casamento, nasceu Humberto de Aveiro, avô de Cristiano Ronaldo, que casaria com Filomena de Aveiro, nascida em 1928, ainda viva.
Da união entre Humberto e Filomena, nasceu, José Dinis (1954-2005) que viria a casar com Maria Dolores dos Santos, pais de Cristiano Ronaldo, o atleta de eleição e figura de cartaz, não apenas no mundo do futebol mas também do mundo cor-de-rosa que anima muitos corações pelo mundo fora
link (http://madeiragenealogy.com/2011/07/a-genealogia-paterna-de-cristiano-ronaldo/).
Cape Verdeans who could pass for people of the New world . Brazilians of course are number one, since Cape verdeans are basically Brazilians with out Amerindian influence.
Brazilians?
http://i15.servimg.com/u/f15/11/07/64/53/eddupr11.jpg
http://www.ecaboverde.com/data/media/15/S6300288.jpg
Dominican or Cuban?
http://b3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01070/31/76/1070556713_l.jpg
Haitian or black Dominicans?
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_I6CUHNfmSSE/SzRdIDTwVxI/AAAAAAAAEhI/lEVPVnjuQzU/capeverdean3%20small.jpg
It's actually the other way around. Cape Verdeans existed before Brazilians and some early settlers in Brazil actually came fromCape Verde. Some of the slaves were actually "seasoned" in Cape Verde.
http://fashnberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/carolina-portfolio-1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KahHDCyzJrE/T-kPrs2sTSI/AAAAAAAARGg/cShXiumaXvc/s1600/cape+verde.jpg
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/c23.0.403.403/p403x403/307075_413984821978480_1268966095_n.jpg
https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/551014_10150950990424763_2136046807_n.jpg
https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579350_10150950990544763_189270537_n.jpg
in the blue
https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/601840_10150951002424763_452003713_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.ne
t/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/556996_3223628041630_88832759_n.jpg
---------- Post added 2012-06-30 at 17:45 ----------
http://www.dacb.org/stories/capeverde/photos/debarros_luciano.jpg
http://photos3.hi5.com/0116/878/258/u8AhUf878258-01.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y1EvFN5UDtQ/STG0yitsVSI/AAAAAAAAAE4/MH0D1DcFZpU/s1600/sida+1.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y1EvFN5UDtQ/SRsYV4CkVjI/AAAAAAAAABI/tHAOoBvxHks/s1600/foto+italia+016.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w3XdQAlQakc/Trqy-Ym9AvI/AAAAAAAAAmE/XFBZVfUuG6o/s1600/blog.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y1EvFN5UDtQ/TVF6_kX5maI/AAAAAAAAAhA/Ad8tQg0szGQ/s1600/4.JPG[COLOR="Silver"]
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y1EvFN5UDtQ/TN22FpmxkYI/AAAAAAAAAaE/ZhAJZH2DZUY/s1600/IMG_9590.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y1EvFN5UDtQ/TN22UNjMmtI/AAAAAAAAAaM/Rp60FECbsE4/s1600/IMG_9598.JPG
girls in the middle:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y1EvFN5UDtQ/TS2yhE4zobI/AAAAAAAAAbA/pkhJPWDPkSY/s1600/3.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y1EvFN5UDtQ/THRZnt7eMGI/AAAAAAAAAUg/JLFBwagymMY/s1600/IMG_0183.JPG[COLOR="Silver"]
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y1EvFN5UDtQ/SXn_tqClPoI/AAAAAAAAALA/qecI5AKfUdk/s1600/fotos+659.jpg
mamabowe
2012-07-04, 00:51
i never knew christiano ronald was from cv initialy i thougt he was from brazil .what a player he is , the cv is one of the best looking in the region
Mildred Almeida(or Eriksen) Miss Massachusetts 1951
"First known Euro-African contestant at Miss America (Cape Verdean descent)"
Also won Miss Cape Verde 1949
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20120628/386451_062812eriksen.jpg
---------- Post added 2012-07-04 at 04:11 ----------
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JCdU6cVwiPg/Tpxe1KyWpPI/AAAAAAAAA2A/RjMunYLO2dw/s1600/335.jpg[COLOR="Silver"]
http://www.geomar.de/typo3temp/pics/Interview_2_60f06d2d01.jpg
i never knew christiano ronald was from cv initialy i thougt he was from brazil .what a player he is , the cv is one of the best looking in the region
Have you ever been to Cape Verde? I've met quite a few fulanis in Cape Verde. Of all the West African immigrants in Cape Verde fulanis are the biggest ethnic group.
Christiano's is from the Portuguese islands, however his great grandmother was Cape Verdean.[COLOR="Silver"]
mamabowe
2012-07-05, 05:30
Have you ever been to Cape Verde? I've met quite a few fulanis in Cape Verde. Of all the West African immigrants in Cape Verde fulanis are the biggest ethnic group.
Christiano's is from the Portuguese islands, however his great grandmother was Cape Verdean.[COLOR="Silver"]
no. but lov to visit there one day .so theres are fulanis in cv wow i guess some of them are from senegal or guinea
no. but lov to visit there one day .so theres are fulanis in cv wow i guess some of them are from senegal or guinea
Yes, Senegalese are the most numerous in cape verde. But we have immigrants from all over west Africa. There is even a Nigerian community there.
they look like eastern dominicans to me
they look like eastern dominicans to me
What does the average eastern domincan look like? Eastern DR looks more like Santiago to me. Most griffe looking folks.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/c156.0.403.403/p403x403/250880_10150945691283661_18986172_n.jpghttps://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/521302_10151811866340026_1103765255_n.jpg
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/182539_10151866574420026_1092516672_n.jpg
http://jeritilley.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/low-res-copy-cape-verde-mindelo-fisherman-pirate-8.jpg?w=950&h=736
http://www.onenigerianboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Cover_Juillet_aout_2012_-1.jpg
http://www.bravanews.com/img/uploads/noticias/Lenine-0.jpg
http://www.bravanews.com/img/uploads/noticias/helder-0.jpg
http://www.bravanews.com/img/uploads/noticias/balla-7.jpg
http://www.bravanews.com/img/uploads/noticias/p.jpg
http://www.bravanews.com/img/uploads/noticias/Bravanews_Gala.jpg
http://www.visaonews.com/images/stories/Entretenimento/mirri.jpg
http://www.unilab.edu.br/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/raul-ferreira-comemoracao-independência-caboverde-345x259.jpg
http://www.asemana.publ.cv/IMG/jpg_nelita-vo.jpg
http://www.unilab.edu.br/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/comemoracao-independência-caboverde-hino-nacional.jpg
---------- Post added 2012-07-07 at 02:31 ----------
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/208938_365034740231386_1816057196_n.jpg[COLOR="Silver"]
---------- Post added 2012-07-07 at 02:33 ----------
https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/488071_376943819040478_79572328_n.jpg
mamabowe
2012-07-07, 19:14
nice pics. beautiful people they look like hispanics.
Yes, Senegalese are the most numerous in cape verde. But we have immigrants from all over west Africa. There is even a Nigerian community there.
According to census (http://www.panapress.com/Cabo-Verde-com-mais-de-14-mil-estrangeiros-residentes--3-773529-51-lang4-index.html) held in 2010 it's Guineans (Bissau) who are the most numerous, followed by Senegalese, Nigerians and then Guineans from Conakry. There's also of course some europeans and chinese living in CV :D. Total migrant population (registered) is 2,9% of total population.
Os estrangeiros residentes em Cabo Verde provenientes da Guiné-Bissau constituem o grosso da comunidade da África Ocidental, contabilizando cinco mil e 544 pessoas, correspondentes a 38,6 porcento dos 10 mil 306 efetivos da população cabo-verdiana com origem nos países africanos residentes no arquipélago.
Os Senegaleses são a segunda comunidade africana mais expressiva a residir atualmente em Cabo Verde, com cerca de mil 634 indivíduos, representando 11,4 porcento dos efetivos provenientes do continente africano.
Seguem-se os cidadãos da Nigéria, quantificados em 740 pessoas (5,1 porcento); da Guiné Conacry, estimados em 456 indivíduos (3,2 por cento); e de outras nacionalidades não especificadas, que totalizam 409 efetivos (2,8 porcento).
According to census (http://www.panapress.com/Cabo-Verde-com-mais-de-14-mil-estrangeiros-residentes--3-773529-51-lang4-index.html) held in 2010 it's Guineans (Bissau) who are the most numerous, followed by Senegalese, Nigerians and then Guineans from Conakry. There's also of course some europeans and chinese living in CV :D. Total migrant population (registered) is 2,9% of total population.
Lol those numbers are so off... Just by virtue of walking the streets of Santiago & Sal I can tell you the number of Senegalese immigrants is way more than GB. I'm sure the majority are undocumented.
There are like 5000(this number maybe exaggerated) Nigerians living in CV alone, however I met countless Nigerian sellers in Praia:
Check out this new bit on them from Nigerian television:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bx-lfbXXxA
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bx-lfbXXxA)
---------- Post added 2012-07-09 at 08:52 ----------
I don't have a source about Fulas, however I remember a cousin tell me they were the most numerous(coming from various countries) and I also met quite a few on my trips(even before I knew who the fulas were) If Fulas are not the biggest ethnic group they are among the top 3 in CV. Anytime there is anything related to Islam in Cape Verdean Media the Fulas are always mentioned.
Muslim community in Cape Verde celebrates birth of Prophet (http://www.asemana.publ.cv/spip.php?article50440)
Islamic community in Cape Verde celebrates end of Ramadan (http://www.asemana.publ.cv/spip.php?article56172&var_recherche=islam&ak=1)
What does the average eastern domincan look like? Eastern DR looks more like Santiago to me. Most griffe looking folks.
the whole country is mixed, yes. but santiago does not represent the entire north. i mean mainstream eastern dominicans look like cape verdeans, darker skinned with not much amerindian influence
mamabowe
2012-07-09, 22:59
in c.v. is there a second language beside portugese.
El Andullero
2012-07-09, 23:35
the whole country is mixed, yes. but santiago does not represent the entire north. i mean mainstream eastern dominicans look like cape verdeans, darker skinned with not much amerindian influence
She was talking about Santiago the CV island. And yes, she's basically right, easterners here are generally speaking, very griffish looking, except for the elites and some middle class folks of the region, which are as pred. Euro looking as the ones on the capital and the Cibao.
Lol those numbers are so off... Just by virtue of walking the streets of Santiago & Sal I can tell you the number of Senegalese immigrants is way more than GB. I'm sure the majority are undocumented.
There are like 5000(this number maybe exaggerated) Nigerians living in CV alone, however I met countless Nigerian sellers in Praia:
Check out this new bit on them from Nigerian television:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bx-lfbXXxA
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bx-lfbXXxA)
In S. Vicente i also see more senegalese vendors than guineans on the streets , (they are literally standing out :D), but i think guineans are more likely to be employed in regular jobs like construction than other west africans because they know the language.
Interesting clip about the nigerians. I'm sure there's many illegal imigrants so the official numbers must be off indeed. But 5000 already... that's alot... I know CV's should be the last to comment on immigration ;), but it seems to me that ever since tourism started booming in the 90's the incoming migration to CV has been increasing very rapidly. Not only africans but also chinese and europeans. I wonder if it can be sustained that way, as also retired CV migrants are starting to return. CV being made up of tiny islands with limited natural resources (water!) and also still plagued with high unemployment i think it would be wise to have a restrictive migration policy in place. What say you?
in c.v. is there a second language beside portugese.
Portuguese is the second language :D First/native language for CV's is crioulo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verdean_Creole), each island has it's own variant.
Some criolas
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/1v48y71hBelleCapverdienne.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/Victoriajoliemannequinnoiredoriginecapverdienne-ivoirienne.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/-KesiaLimaacapeverdeanwoman.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/Chelseatavares-1.jpg
in c.v. is there a second language beside portugese.
are cape verdeans considered Latinos? if not why?
are cape verdeans considered Latinos? if not why?
Define Latino.
---------- Post added 2012-07-09 at 23:56 ----------
Nice music by some random guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv9v85uwTpc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR6_1cdOmLk&feature=relmfu
Makes me want to drop everything and just go...one of the best things about CV is the music....[COLOR="Silver"]
Sara Martins, portugueseborn french actress starring in a UK TV series :)
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/Sara_Martins.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/Sara-Martins_portrait_w858.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/2621.jpg
Milka Loff Fernandes (born 19 June 1980 in Hamburg) is a German TV presenter and actress.
Fernandes was, from 1999 until 2004, VJ for the television channel Viva and in 2002 recorded the song Girl for a day with Band Ohne Namen, reaching Number 16 in the German music charts.[1]
Fernandes has also played roles in the television crime series Tatort, Rosa Roth and the short film Traum(a).[1] Her parents come from the Cape Verde islands[1] and she is a practising buddhist, now living in Düsseldorf. She has also appeared twice in the German celebrity version of Come Dine With Me.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/1111.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/Milka.jpg
Video called Cabo Verde Criolas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LkOQNG4DqI&feature=autoplay&list=ULVgxl952seyM&playnext=1)
Some images of Cape Verde (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgxl952seyM&feature=channel&list=UL)
---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 00:38 ----------
CV being made up of tiny islands with limited natural resources (water!) and also still plagued with high unemployment i think it would be wise to have a restrictive migration policy in place. What say you?
Well most of the West African migrants really have not gone to CV to take jobs....they basically sell goods from the mainland, which is a good thing. It spurs the economy. I also don't mind meeting my ancestors :lol: They are nice and peaceful and we all get a long. However, I'm afraid of the Chinese merchants as they are flooding CV with cheap goods and putting the Rabidantes out of business.
---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 00:59 ----------
Do you know what island her family is from?
http://www.ecranlarge.com/upload/stars/poster/star3336/original_212463.jpg
http://kpitalrisk.free.fr/images/stars/69000/s_aec04_-_cm_-_sara_martins_-_1_-_50.jpg
http://africa54.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/martins_sara-1.jpg?w=300&h=235[COLOR="Silver"]
Define Latino.[COLOR="Silver"]
Latinos speak a Latin language, and are mostly descendant of a Latin nation. Portuguese is a Latin language and Cape Verdeans are part Portuguese, no?
jibarodepr
2012-07-10, 02:39
But Latino is used for people who speak Spanish.
She was talking about Santiago the CV island. And yes, she's basically right, easterners here are generally speaking, very griffish looking, except for the elites and some middle class folks of the region, which are as pred. Euro looking as the ones on the capital and the Cibao.
ok i see
---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 01:44 ----------
But Latino is used for people who speak Spanish.
Brazillians are considered Latinos, and they speak Portuguese. I think what you mean is the term "Hispanic"
---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 01:45 ----------
But Latino is used for people who speak Spanish.
Brazillians are considered Latinos, and they speak Portuguese. I think what you mean is the term "Hispanic"
haha let's not have the Latino/Hispanic discussion over here :whoco: It's been done many times before and this is hardly the appropriate place for it...
I'll say this though, culturally i do think that in a way cape verde is a new world society and therefore has much in common with first of all brazil but also other latinamerican countries (principally carribean ones). Still there's also much that binds CV directly with both portugal and westafrica (especially Guinea Bissau/Senegambia) and also other former Portuguese colonies in Africa.
If anything CV is a PALOP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese-speaking_African_countries) country.
---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 01:57 ----------
Do you know what island her family is from?
Nope, i only know she was born in Portugal. She has very striking features, almost looks blasian imo.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Cabo%20Verde/SARAH-M.jpg
She looks like a Guiniod, Indian, and a Chinese rolled up into one.
---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 02:12 ----------
yeah I agree with the PALOPS....there is definitely a comradery btwn PALOPS[COLOR="Silver"]
jibarodepr
2012-07-10, 03:55
Brazillians are considered Latinos, and they speak Portuguese. I think what you mean is the term "Hispanic"I mean in the US definition of Latino.
I mean in the US definition of Latino.
Its the very same. Hence the term, Latino/Hispanic
El Andullero
2012-07-11, 01:48
Its the very same. Hence the term, Latino/Hispanic
No, it isn't, cuz' if it was, Brazilian Americans would be grouped here too. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans) Please dude, let's not derail this thread any further.
No, it isn't, cuz' if it was, Brazilian Americans would be grouped here too. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans) Please dude, let's not derail this thread any further.
right. agree to disagree ;)
jibarodepr
2012-07-11, 02:57
Its the very same. Hence the term, Latino/HispanicUhum, in the US Latino/Hispanic =Spanish speaking people.
http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.12197864.3802/flat,800x800,070,f.jpg
http://ih3.redbubble.net/image.12156890.2079/flat,800x800,070,f.jpg
http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.11969525.4627/flat,800x800,070,f.jpg
http://onlyagame.wbur.org/files/2012/07/0713_olympics.jpg
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