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View Full Version : First Genetic Insight into Libyan Tuaregs: A Maternal Perspective



beyoku
2011-03-29, 02:07
You may want to check some of the Most recent common ancestor dates on these lineages for some surprises.

They also mention my Lineages :


The eight identical L0a1a haplotypes were characterised
by a reversion at np 16223 and HVS-II mutations at nps
146 and 150. They could be possibly attributed to L0a1a-
64T clade encompassing mainly Eastern and Central Africa
(2 haplotypes in Egypt, 1 in Sudan and 1 in Chad) and,
more interestingly, one Israeli mtDNA (samples L407, L408,
L259p and L553 in Behar et al., 2008). Coalescence time in
this clade was 14,678 years (SD 4,811).

As well as its introduction into the Nile valley by Horners and Sudanese :


Y-chromosome haplogroup E-V12∗ (Cruciani et al.,
2007), which is related to the movement of people from East
Africa northward through the Nile Valley and spreading also
into the Central Sahara and the Arabian peninsula. Accordingly,
a relationship between the L2a1 and L0a1a mtDNA
lineages and this migration flow is proposed.

They also comment on the main hypothesis taken up by Doctoris, myself and others:


A remarkable genetic affinity with the Eastern African populations
(particularly with the Beja) was observed for autosomal
markers by Cavalli-Sforza (Cavalli-Sforza et al., 1994).
From an analysis of a sample of individuals from many Tuareg
populations in Western and Central Africa, he proposed
that the Tuaregs originated through a population split from
an ancestral pastoral group in the area between the Nile and
the Red Sea in the middle Holocene. Despite some affinity
with Eastern African mtDNA lineages, our data differ apparently
from Cavalli-Sforza’s survey, as he found no close
relationship with Berber groups.

Comments?

Doctoris Scientia
2011-03-29, 02:28
Does anybody know what they mean by this?



"A Berber origin is supported by linguistic
data that characterise the Tuareg language as a proto-Berber
language (Greenberg, 1970; Gaudio, 1993)."

There hasn't been any recent studies with regard to the structure of the Berber sub-family of Afrasan. I always assumed that the eastern branch of Berber, i.e. Siwa etc., represented the oldest Berber branch.

---------- Post added 2011-03-29 at 01:32 ----------

As the author stated, the frequency of H1 at ~60% is obviously due to founder effect and genetic drift. They sampled two villages. A more broader study is likely to find more balanced results.

Bandar Qasim
2011-03-29, 02:35
The coalescence age of their main H1 variant is only 850 years? That's relatively recent and it has a high frequency, could it be due to a population bottleneck?

Doctoris Scientia
2011-03-29, 02:42
The coalescence age of their main H1 variant is only 850 years? That's relatively recent and it has a high frequency, could it be due to a population bottleneck?



In this connection,
the hypothesis that the Libyan Tuaregs originated
through a founder effect from an ancestral Tuareg population
seems likely.

The Tuareg Libyan population in Libya is relatively small compared to those in Algeria, Mali, Niger, and even Burkina Faso and according to oral folklore, they are the youngest branch of the Tuareg people. A population bottleneck can well be the reason, it would allow for a genetic drift.

beyoku
2011-03-29, 03:00
The coalescence age of their main H1 variant is only 850 years? That's relatively recent and it has a high frequency, could it be due to a population bottleneck?

Europeans slaves :lol:
I think it may be a Typo. This study seems like a reduction of the larger study that was written as the main author's (Ottoni) thesis. That can still be found Here (http://dspace.uniroma2.it/dspace/bitstream/2108/646/1/PhD_Tesi_Ottoni.pdf)

I cannot give you an exact source on Berber language but I have read that Tuareg (as well as Eastern, Northern Berber, and "Zenega" i think) split from an ancestral "Proto-Berber" twig and is not a spin-off of Berber Proper. I personally view the populations in the same way with Tuareg being a Sister population in the desert versus that of the coast. Other people see them as as a Child population of the Sahara that has been 'darkened by Darkies.' while the parent population is that of the coast - I dont think this is the case. In fact I after studying it for a while on "Egyptsearch" in its heyday 2005, i was starting to believe Siwa Berbers not affected by the E-M81 founder Effect still carried their Horn/Nile Valley/Sudanic Proto-Berber Sub Stratum. (B2a1a, E-V6, L0a, M1a, L4~ Most diverse E-M81, etc). I have also seen articles that show Tuareg (Mali) E-M81 to be very diverse, pointing to their existence as a sister population and not a splinter group from the lowly diverse North Western groups. Too bad this happened years ago, there where migration charts from books and everything....ahh good times.

BerberWarrior
2012-06-27, 02:01
There hasn't been any recent studies with regard to the structure of the Berber sub-family of Afrasan. I always assumed that the eastern branch of Berber, i.e. Siwa etc., represented the oldest Berber branch There has actually been plenty , and what you 'have always assumed' appears to be false , siwa is barely different from the common libyan berber , there's nothing "oldest branch" about it , rather opposite its a divergent branch of the standard Libyan amazigh core.


Europeans slaves :lol:
I think it may be a Typo. This study seems like a reduction of the larger study that was written as the main author's (Ottoni) thesis. That can still be found Here (http://dspace.uniroma2.it/dspace/bitstream/2108/646/1/PhD_Tesi_Ottoni.pdf)

I cannot give you an exact source on Berber language but I have read that Tuareg (as well as Eastern, Northern Berber, and "Zenega" i think) split from an ancestral "Proto-Berber" twig and is not a spin-off of Berber Proper. I personally view the populations in the same way with Tuareg being a Sister population in the desert versus that of the coast. Other people see them as as a Child population of the Sahara that has been 'darkened by Darkies.' while the parent population is that of the coast - I dont think this is the case. In fact I after studying it for a while on "Egyptsearch" in its heyday 2005, i was starting to believe Siwa Berbers not affected by the E-M81 founder Effect still carried their Horn/Nile Valley/Sudanic Proto-Berber Sub Stratum. (B2a1a, E-V6, L0a, M1a, L4~ Most diverse E-M81, etc). I have also seen articles that show Tuareg (Mali) E-M81 to be very diverse, pointing to their existence as a sister population and not a splinter group from the lowly diverse North Western groups. Too bad this happened years ago, there where migration charts from books and everything....ahh good times.
it's unlikely tuaregs represent a sister population to the amaziɣs, everything about them (dialect , cloth patterns , unipaternal markers) indicates a recent origin from southwestern morocco. and the reason why people in siwa show totally different haplogroups compared to the amazigh core is that they just are not berber , they have some berber admixture but their ancestry is mostly chadic/nilosaharan. and I do not know really that well what you mean about Em81 to be very diverse , there are only 2 lineages within this yDNA , its a very bottlenecked.