View Full Version : I think this guy must be like 100% R1b
It is a well-known fact that the most common haplotype in Western Europe is R1b and that the highest concentrations in all Europe are in Ireland, Wales and Spain, and in Spain, the highest concentration areas are Northern ones, being the most important Asturias, Cantabria and Pais Vasco.
This guy here has the specially typical basque look, and if basques are one of the purest Europeans, I guess this guy has to be one of the most pure looking Europeans possible because he has an incredible "basque look". I laugh at those who say that northern Europeans are purer that southern Europeans. This guy is probably most pure European looking than most of those northern European blond-blue eyed vikings.
You can check here in minutes 03:50--->04:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj3_OjcEg6o
I didn't think phenotype was a reliable guide to ancestry?
Exactly, phenotype isn't.
And how can you be 100% R1b? Makes no sense, either you are or you aren't. You can say he is 100% Western European based on his looks, but even this is a fallacious statement due to the fluid link between phenotype and genetics.
safinator
2011-05-06, 14:26
Agree with posters above me.
It is clear that it is just a supposition. But if most studies agree that the highest percentage of R1b is among northern Spaniards (also with Welsh), and even more among spanish basques and that this guy has a "ultratop basque look" with very finest western european features, it is probably that if he is not 100% R1b at least 95%, which makes him being a ultra-native of Western Europe, much more than those mixed haplotypes central-northern europeans.
I forgot to say that there are some areas in northern Spain that have received 0% or virtually 0% of foreign ancestry and that their descendants of today are exactly the same as their ancestors many centuries ago. There are some locations (isolated valleys on Asturias, Cantabria, Pais Vasco, Navarra) that I guess that their looks are the same as many centuries ago). Remember for example that the basques are the unique location in Spain that has not been romanised, that it didn´t receive muslims, and not other foreign influence in lots of centuries.
It will be great to have his DNA tested.
If this guy went to Sweden all swedish should do reverences to him for his supposed purity (joking).
Arminfrench
2011-05-06, 17:51
:whoco:
Galicians are amog the purest in the iberian penninsula.
AlexDelarge
2011-05-06, 18:02
Saying "R1b" is a bit worthless because it has plenty of subclades, which are more or less geographically distributed.
Also, there is no place in the world that is 100% R1b, so this guy could be anything.
Arminfrench
2011-05-06, 18:15
Saying "R1b" is a bit worthless because it has plenty of subclades, which are more or less geographically distributed.
Also, there is no place in the world that is 100% R1b, so this guy could be anything.
I Quite agree with that!!!.
Saying "R1b" is a bit worthless because it has plenty of subclades, which are more or less geographically distributed.
Also, there is no place in the world that is 100% R1b, so this guy could be anything.
"Having plenty of subclades" would it mean that he can´t be pure R1b?. Even more, do you know what subclades are basically in Spain and Portugal?.
There is no place in the world that is 100% R1b but it could be that some individuals could have it. Why not?. It is in the basque country where there are the highest concentrations in the world of R1b. I just made a simple supossition.
dbbrainer
2011-05-06, 20:22
Vix I am almost pretty sure you said you were french on another thread. Your quite taken with the northern spanish are't you ;) ?
AlexDelarge
2011-05-06, 20:29
"Having plenty of subclades" would it mean that he can´t be pure R1b?. Even more, do you know what subclades are basically in Spain and Portugal?.
Having plenty of sublcades means just that, that there are several types of R1b, look at the map i posted. The type of R1b more common in Iberia is different the one that is most common in the British Isles and different from the one that it's most common in Turkey.
There is no place in the world that is 100% R1b but it could be that some individuals could have it. Why not?. It is in the basque country where there are the highest concentrations in the world of R1b. I just made a simple supossition.
I was just saying these things are very random and you can't take anything for granted. For example, Hitler was E1b. Who would have guessed that?
Having different subclades means that there are no countries with higher concentrations of R1b than others, independently of what those subclades are?.
If that guy is spanish basque, which I´m 100% sure he is, and spanish basque are the people in world with highest R1b concentrations, could mean that he COULD probably has a very top concentration of R1b. I say it again, it is just a supposition. He could also have skimal haloptypes, no one knows it for sure.
AlexDelarge
2011-05-06, 20:50
Having different subclades means that there are no countries with higher concentrations of R1b than others, independently of what those subclades are?.
Sorry i don't get what you're asking. You can ask the question in spanish if you want.
If that guy is spanish basque, which I´m 100% sure he is, and spanish basque are the people in world with highest R1b concentrations, could mean that he COULD probably has a very top concentration of R1b. I say it again, it is just a supposition. He could also have skimal haloptypes, no one knows it for sure.
Yes, that's true.
What I meant that it doesn´t matter if there are 1 or 10 subclades of R1b because all are R1b. In my initial post I said that northern Spain has the highest concentration of R1b. We are not talking about subclades but the total R1b.
Jusarius
2011-05-06, 23:42
You shouldn't ask what haplogroup that guy might have but what do his autosomal DNA tell if you want to have some genetics-phenotype correlations. For obvious reasons, an individual's Y HG hasn't got anything to do with their phenotype though it reveals a direct paternal line.
Day Tripper
2011-05-07, 00:34
WTF?
Are you trying to say that 100% of his male ancestors (not just directl male ancestors) over some time period were R1b? Because you can only possibly be either 100% R1b or 0% R1b yourself.
BTW if you see the video you will see a perfect Spanish clone of Rowan Atkinson (for example in minute 2).
It is incredible how similar can look 2 persons that have been born thousands of miles far away from different parents.
Vix, I think you should read this Wiki article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroups
Here's a FinlandSwede who I happen to know is a R1b carrier. You can tell he isn't pure, but there are still some similarities.
Tuohikirje
2011-05-07, 18:48
This guy is probably most pure European looking than most of those northern European blond-blue eyed vikings.
What is pure European look.
If you mean vs Northern Europeans, he looks like a Southener.
What is pure European look.
If you mean vs Northern Europeans, he looks like a Southener.
R1b is the most relevant haloptype in Western Europe. So having the highest concentration of R1b would me that someone is the most "purest" western European.
And comming you from Finland would agree that despite your light pigmentation (blond-blue eyed) you are more mixed with non-European haloptypes. So, this guy is more western European (in looks and probably also in genetics) than lots of people that are blond-blue eyed. And in general it is funny to see how some people like to discuss about the whiteness of some Spaniards when it is a fact that if someone can be considered the most western European people are Spaniards, Irish and Welsh.
BTW I´m not Spanish, I´m french with one Spanish grandfather.
---------- Post added 2011-05-07 at 19:35 ----------
Here's a FinlandSwede who I happen to know is a R1b carrier. You can tell he isn't pure, but there are still some similarities.
Well, I can see some "remote" similarities. Not many in my opinion.
R1b is the most relevant haloptype in Western Europe. So having the highest concentration of R1b would me that someone is the most "purest" western European.
And comming you from Finland would agree that despite your light pigmentation (blond-blue eyed) you are more mixed with non-European haloptypes. So, this guy is more western European (in looks and probably also in genetics) than lots of people that are blond-blue eyed. And in general it is funny to see how some people like to discuss about the whiteness of some Spaniards when it is a fact that if someone can be considered the most western European people are Spaniards, Irish and Welsh.
BTW I´m not Spanish, I´m french with one Spanish grandfather.
---------- Post added 2011-05-07 at 19:35 ----------
Well, I can see some "remote" similarities. Not many in my opinion.
I was mostly referring to his sheepish aura. Some Finland-Swedes have it, as does the guy you posted. It's the same kind of sheepish look the guy you posted has. That Finland-Swede doesn't look really Finnish at all.
Tuohikirje
2011-05-08, 10:32
R1b is the most relevant haloptype in Western Europe. So having the highest concentration of R1b would me that someone is the most "purest" western European.
And comming you from Finland would agree that despite your light pigmentation (blond-blue eyed) you are more mixed with non-European haloptypes. So, this guy is more western European (in looks and probably also in genetics) than lots of people that are blond-blue eyed. And in general it is funny to see how some people like to discuss about the whiteness of some Spaniards when it is a fact that if someone can be considered the most western European people are Spaniards, Irish and Welsh.
BTW I´m not Spanish, I´m french with one Spanish grandfather.
---------- Post added 2011-05-07 at 19:35 ----------
Well, I can see some "remote" similarities. Not many in my opinion.
Pseudoscience.
Based on your photo, he looks like a dark Southener, who has no tan.
If he is Western European in looks and in genetics, what Northern Europeans and blond-fair eyed people have to do with it. He cannot be more 'more white' in looks, he clearly isn't. Phenotype is not equivalent with genotype.
R1b is the most relevant haloptype in Western Europe. So having the highest concentration of R1b would me that someone is the most "purest" western European.
It may seem like a logical conclusion, but in reality it's not that simple.
First, from the high percentage of R1b in Western Europe, especially in the westernmost areas, it could seem like a refuge for "original Europeans" but that's just how it "seems".
There are non-Europeans who have very high percentages of R1b as well.
The guy you posted looks like a somewhat long faced Mediterranean. The really ancient European remains however, looks more in the Cromagnoid direction,(even though that label is seen as invalid by some).
I don't see any reason to think that he, in his look, represent any kind of "pure" European, or that he represents the original look of R1b carriers at all. Maybe he does, but that would just be coincidental.
The fact is, that R1b carriers in Europe have a different phenotype, and even "race" that R1b carriers in Cameroon, where some ethnicities have over 90% R1b as well.
You ignore the female lineage in this. The female lineage is important, because one guy can impregnate hundreds of women, while the reverse isn't possible.
You also have to consider that the other haplogroup, I, is a bit more specific to Europe. Once in the past, all of northern Europe was covered in ice, and southern Europe was the only place anyone could live - and southern Europe at that time was cold! So, Northern Europe was populated from the south (incl. SE + SW probably).
The carriers of I was probably largely replaced from the rest of Europe, except the Balkans. It does occur in most of Europe in small percentages, though. It's even found among the Basque, in small numbers.
There are a lot of theories about this. Some I've read suggests that R1b came with the neolithic expansion of agricultural people from the Middle East, while I came from the North East, maybe even Turkey. I don't know if that has any validity. Who came first to Europe? Who knows? The paleolithic Europeans are supposed to have had a very low population density (as hunter and gatherers) and so they were easily replaced by invading (and perhaps more organised) agricultural peoples, who were far more numerous.
Who were those people living in Europe during the iceage(s)? You tell me!
Pallantides
2011-05-08, 17:18
I think Sebastian chabal and Rafael Nadal have the look of the original R1b carriers:
7882978830
But seriously us R1b folk have a myriad of different phenotypes...
Pseudoscience.
Based on your photo, he looks like a dark Southener, who has no tan.
If he is Western European in looks and in genetics, what Northern Europeans and blond-fair eyed people have to do with it. He cannot be more 'more white' in looks, he clearly isn't. Phenotype is not equivalent with genotype.
"dark Southener, who has no tan.". Explain it?. He is not a dark Southener. He is WHITER skinned than most northern Europeans because blond people usually have a "yellowish skin". Atlantid people who are not blonder has whiter/leucoderma skin. So he is not a "dark" southerner. Asiatic haplotypes in Finland are like 40-50%, you are the less "white" people in Europe despite being you mainly blond-blue eyed.
---------- Post added 2011-05-08 at 19:48 ----------
It may seem like a logical conclusion, but in reality it's not that simple.
First, from the high percentage of R1b in Western Europe, especially in the westernmost areas, it could seem like a refuge for "original Europeans" but that's just how it "seems".
There are non-Europeans who have very high percentages of R1b as well.
The guy you posted looks like a somewhat long faced Mediterranean. The really ancient European remains however, looks more in the Cromagnoid direction,(even though that label is seen as invalid by some).
I don't see any reason to think that he, in his look, represent any kind of "pure" European, or that he represents the original look of R1b carriers at all. Maybe he does, but that would just be coincidental.
The fact is, that R1b carriers in Europe have a different phenotype, and even "race" that R1b carriers in Cameroon, where some ethnicities have over 90% R1b as well.
You ignore the female lineage in this. The female lineage is important, because one guy can impregnate hundreds of women, while the reverse isn't possible.
You also have to consider that the other haplogroup, I, is a bit more specific to Europe. Once in the past, all of northern Europe was covered in ice, and southern Europe was the only place anyone could live - and southern Europe at that time was cold! So, Northern Europe was populated from the south (incl. SE + SW probably).
The carriers of I was probably largely replaced from the rest of Europe, except the Balkans. It does occur in most of Europe in small percentages, though. It's even found among the Basque, in small numbers.
There are a lot of theories about this. Some I've read suggests that R1b came with the neolithic expansion of agricultural people from the Middle East, while I came from the North East, maybe even Turkey. I don't know if that has any validity. Who came first to Europe? Who knows? The paleolithic Europeans are supposed to have had a very low population density (as hunter and gatherers) and so they were easily replaced by invading (and perhaps more organised) agricultural peoples, who were far more numerous.
Who were those people living in Europe during the iceage(s)? You tell me!
That is correct. With this thread I didn´t want to be scientific, but I just saw that guy on youtube and thought it was an interesting dude to discuss. Since spanish basques are like 98% R1b, and they have a pre-indoeuropean language, and in rural areas I think they look the same as many centuries ago (no immigration from any other part of Spain or goths, muslims, celts, ...).
BTW, in that video (from minute 25 and ahead), there is a Spaniard (spanish basque) that is considered an "Agote", which is someone from the Valle del Baztan and they are suppossed to be descended from goths but have been discriminated by the local population during many centuries. Even those "Agote" goths were considered slaves or low individuals in the past. The man of the video is a very nice guy.
This is the translation of the Agote with google. At the begining it says "Exhaust" but the real word in Spanish is "Agote"
http://translate.google.es/translate?sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fes.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAgote
It is an interesting history about those people.
I recommend you to see the video from the first post, even if you don´t understand Spanish because you can see:
-Perfect Mr.Bean clone.
-The "perfect R1b" (unscientifical).
-Agote.
Humanist
2011-05-12, 23:00
I think Sebastian chabal and Rafael Nadal have the look of the original R1b carriers:
7882978830
But seriously us R1b folk have a myriad of different phenotypes...
My idea of the original R-M269 carrier --> Armenian soccer player Yura Movsisyan ;)
Are you sure he isn't the prototype for R1a Humanist? The fella looks aR1an.
I think who ancient R1bs were like him:
79809
There is a link between red hair and R1b imo. Basques are a mix of R1b (paternal line) and I2 (proto-basques-maternal). Probably Ireland is the purest R1b nation.
What's their stereotype? Gingers.
Pallantides
2011-05-13, 00:22
I think who ancient R1bs were like him:
79809
No!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGDIZoXXdg8
AlexDelarge
2011-05-13, 00:27
I think who ancient R1bs were like him:
79809
There is a link between red hair and R1b imo. Basques are a mix of R1b (paternal line) and I2 (proto-basques-maternal). Probably Ireland is the purest R1b nation.
What's their stereotype? Gingers.
R1b came to Europe a long time ago from Anatolia, at least i think that's the current acepted theory. It has nothing to do with ginger irish people. And i'm glad about that, that would suck for me personally.
Humanist
2011-05-13, 00:27
The fella looks aR1an.
With a brachycephalic head?
Humanist
2011-05-13, 00:38
R1b came to Europe a long time ago from Anatolia, at least i think that's the current acepted theory. It has nothing to do with ginger irish people. And i'm glad about that, that would suck for me personally.
That is right! ;) A map of R-M269 (red) and R1a (green) frequencies for some populations in the region. Armenians are placed by their ancient capital, Lake Van. Assyrians, by their former capital, Nineveh (modern Mosul). Check Wojewoda's Europe Y-DNA thread for sources. If any of you folks have been following the Dodecad project results, Armenian and Assyrian similarities should not come as a surprise.
AlexDelarge
2011-05-13, 00:41
That is right! ;) A map of R-M269 (red) and R1a (green) frequencies for some populations in the region. Armenians are placed by their ancient capital, Lake Van. Assyrians, by their former capital, Nineveh (modern Mosul). Check Wojewoda's Europe Y-DNA thread for sources. If any of you folks have been following the Dodecad project results, Armenian and Assyrian similarities should not come as a surprise.
The thing is that they have older subclades of R1b. While in Europe there are others more recent and with longer name codes.
karakoyunlu
2011-05-13, 00:43
Humanist,
1. What do you think the Armenian impact was genetically on Anatolia?
2. Should we assume that Assyrians resemble the earliest Anatolian population the most?
I feel that the Neolithic expansion pretty much determined the genetic future of Anatolia firmly.
That is right! ;) A map of R-M269 (red) and R1a (green) frequencies for some populations in the region. Armenians are placed by their ancient capital, Lake Van. Assyrians, by their former capital, Nineveh (modern Mosul). Check Wojewoda's Europe Y-DNA thread for sources. If any of you folks have been following the Dodecad project results, Armenian and Assyrian similarities should not come as a surprise.
Humanist
2011-05-13, 00:44
The thing is that they have older subclades of R1b. While in Europe there are others more recent and with longer name codes.
Most certainly. Diversity is exceptionally high among Armenians. Add the Assyrian haplotypes to the mix, and, well, it is hard to argue against an origin in the place you described.
No!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGDIZoXXdg8
:lol::lol::lol: Dragon Age, great game XD
why? Do you hate Gingers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USxQIHifzs0
GINGERS DO HAVE SOULS YOU RIGHT?
AlexDelarge, Doesn't matter if they came from Anatolia. How do you explain the gingers?. Even the most common hair colour here is brown with reddish tones and often some red hair in the beard. Percentage of gingers of Euskadi is the higher of Iberia as well.
AlexDelarge
2011-05-13, 00:52
AlexDelarge, Doesn't matter if they came from Anatolia. How do you explain the gingers?. Even the most common hair colour here is brown with reddish tones and often some red hair in the beard. Percentage of gingers of Euskadi is the higher of Iberia as well.
The percentage of gingers is very low in western europe in general. Some countries have that percentage a bit higher like Scotland (i think?). On the other hand R1b is the dominant haplogroup everywhere in western europe. I doubt all these people that are R1b are related to gingers. And i'm also skeptical about a mass migration of ginger people in Europe a long time ago. ;)
Besides our Y-DNA is a very tiny part of our overall ancestry. So, it's very easy for a person to have an haplogroup like J1 or E1b and have recent ginger ancestors, making this person a ginger too.
Humanist
2011-05-13, 01:03
Humanist,
1. What do you think the Armenian impact was genetically on Anatolia?
2. Should we assume that Assyrians resemble the earliest Anatolian population the most?
I feel that the Neolithic expansion pretty much determined the genetic future of Anatolia firmly.
Hi, Curious. I believe this quote, from an Assyrian author, basically tells the story of how we came into being. I am glad Dienekes posted that article about the hypothesized "Euphratic" language yesterday. I am not saying it is necessarily correct, but many people tend to forget that large swaths of the Near East were not home to Semitic languages in ancient times. Of course, it was the Semitic element that made us who we are today. But, I am afraid, many people have a difficult time disassociating (if potentially helpful) modern spoken languages and populations in discussions related to Y-DNA, mtDNA, etc.
[T]he first peoples to colonize Assyria were people living in the foothills fringing Assyria, that is the Taurus and Zagros Mountains, not the Semite Akkadians.
While the Assyrian plains were occupied by these ethnically unidentified people [Subaraeans], the land itself did not have a common name. Later on, it became known as Subartu, a name that was changed by Ashur-uballit I (c. 1354-c. 1318), who, for the first time, named it the Land of Ashur.
The statement that the settlers of Assyria spoke an Akkadian dialect is very important in understanding the identity of the different peoples living in Mesopotamia. It is an indication that these original people, that is the settlers from the foothills of the north and east of Assyria who were ethnically unidentified, mixed with the Akkadians, who had moved in during the Sumerian and Akkadian domination... Later, that is after Ashur-uballit I changed the name of the land from Subartu to Assur, these speakers of Akkadian, became known as Assyrians, as were those living in the south, later known as Babylonians.
I am not sure I have an answer to your first question yet. Let me defer to a future time, my friend. :)
Yes, but red hair is a very recesive trait. Red hair is mainly an atlantic trait, What's the atlantic haplogroup? R1b. Even there're more gingers in Norway than in Sweden. I doubt who they were all gingers when they came to Europe, they weren't pure R1bs at that time, but I think that Red hair came with them and first R1bs were gingers XD.
I know that Y DNA is insignificant. I just think who the first ginger was a R or R1b and it was expanded among the whole group.
My idea of the original R-M269 carrier --> Armenian soccer player Yura Movsisyan ;)
Is he tested R1b??
---------- Post added 2011-05-12 at 17:15 ----------
I think red-haired ("gingers") come from the European (including Northern) Neanderthals, right??
Vix, do you think Pee Wee Herman is 100% Rib?
Having different subclades means that there are no countries with higher concentrations of R1b than others, independently of what those subclades are?.
If that guy is spanish basque, which I´m 100% sure he is, and spanish basque are the people in world with highest R1b concentrations, could mean that he COULD probably has a very top concentration of R1b. I say it again, it is just a supposition. He could also have skimal haloptypes, no one knows it for sure.
One Ethnic group in Central Africa has R1b [R1b1a/R1b1c] with a frequency 95.5% with the runner up groups being 87.5% and 82.4%. I personally do not research European Y-chromosomes but Wiki sources tell me Wales, Spain and Ireland are the top 3 concentrations at 92.3%, 87.1% and 85,4% respectively.
This leaves Sub Saharan Africa with the number 1 and 3 spots as far as R1b concentration. :evilgrin:
Is he tested R1b??
---------- Post added 2011-05-12 at 17:15 ----------
I think red-haired ("gingers") come from the European (including Northern) Neanderthals, right??
Conventional thinking based on current evidence states that H. Sapiens Sapiens ginger hair is of a different origin from Neanderthalis.
This shyt is stupid.... R1b has no "phenotype", just ask the Chadic speakers of Northern Cameroon
This shyt is stupid.... R1b has no "phenotype", just ask the Chadic speakers of Northern Cameroon
R1b had phenotype. Certainly they were caucasians. R1b in Africa is heavily mixed with negroid by their maternal lines.
Particula
2011-05-14, 00:01
There are redheads in very small numbers outside Europe
and I doubt they had an European origin,one of the hebrew prophets
was described as redhead in the Old Testament I don't think Abraham took a scottish spouse
Does anyone know what's the origin of non-euro caucasoid redheads?
How does one explain the concentration of such high-population of Redheads "Gingers" in the NW European areas, compared to everywhere-else in the world, then? It either began in, or near, the area of its predation.
Or it began elsewhere and became isolated, or sexually selected for??
I recall reading once, that, Neanderthals predominantly were Redheaded… is it true? I don't know.
Pallantides
2011-05-14, 00:10
Redhair is also common among the Udmurts
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udmurt_people
R1b had phenotype. Certainly they were caucasians. R1b in Africa is heavily mixed with negroid by their maternal lines.
Like E* is "Caucasoid" right :lol:(Watever that means:rolleyes:)?... Prove it
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