new study on Argentinian genetics

[guitarcrazy]

Dienekes outlined this article in his blog. You can find the article here:
PLoS ONE 7(4): e34695. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0034695

and also his summary:

Heterogeneity in Genetic Admixture across Different Regions of Argentina

Sergio Avena et al.

The population of Argentina is the result of the intermixing between several groups, including Indigenous American, European and African populations. Despite the commonly held idea that the population of Argentina is of mostly European origin, multiple studies have shown that this process of admixture had an impact in the entire Argentine population. In the present study we characterized the distribution of Indigenous American, European and African ancestry among individuals from different regions of Argentina and evaluated the level of discrepancy between self-reported grandparental origin and genetic ancestry estimates. A set of 99 autosomal ancestry informative markers (AIMs) was genotyped in a sample of 441 Argentine individuals to estimate genetic ancestry. We used non-parametric tests to evaluate statistical significance. The average ancestry for the Argentine sample overall was 65% European (95%CI: 63–68%), 31% Indigenous American (28–33%) and 4% African (3–4%). We observed statistically significant differences in European ancestry across Argentine regions [Buenos Aires province (BA) 76%, 95%CI: 73–79%; Northeast (NEA) 54%, 95%CI: 49–58%; Northwest (NWA) 33%, 95%CI: 21–41%; South 54%, 95%CI: 49–59%; p less than 0.0001] as well as between the capital and immediate suburbs of Buenos Aires city compared to more distant suburbs [80% (95%CI: 75–86%) versus 68% (95%CI: 58–77%), p = 0.01]. European ancestry among individuals that declared all grandparents born in Europe was 91% (95%CI: 88–94%) compared to 54% (95%CI: 51–57%) among those with no European grandparents (p less than 0.001). Our results demonstrate the range of variation in genetic ancestry among Argentine individuals from different regions in the country, highlighting the importance of taking this variation into account in genetic association and admixture mapping studies in this population.

[kilometro7]

Very interesting, I never thought the average Argentinian would be so mix. Thanks for sharing.

[dbbrainer]

Average Argentinean according to this sample of 444 subjects. Which would be very far from the real admix proportions of the whole population. That must be taken into consideration for this and all tests. Just as I would say that the average 100 samples from each latin american country on 23andme thread is far from painting an appropiate average of the admix proportions of any given nationality´s population.

---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 11:42 ----------

A female friend who was my girlfriend´s roomate in Madrid traveled North. All argentineans. You can witness the range in phenos. Her surname is Italian and she would be well above 90% Euro.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/418424_3155531360181_1022108749_2993441_86975724_n .jpg

[Pro]

I am a bit skeptical about these results. Besides having a small population sample size, they also only tested 99 autosomal markers which is not enough to conclude a good estimate.

[Incanal]

A female friend who was my girlfriend´s roomate in Madrid traveled North. All argentineans. You can witness the range in phenos. Her surname is Italian and she would be well above 90% Euro.

Yeah, it's hard for me to believe argies are around 30% native, specially since I've been there and most people def. don't look like that. I wonder where the people tested come from... Some middle class neighborhood or some ghetto?

[El Andullero]

Yeah, it's hard for me to believe argies are around 30% native, specially since I've been there and most people def. don't look like that. I wonder where the people tested come from... Some middle class neighborhood or some ghetto?

Maybe they went to the states bordering Paraguay.

[dbbrainer]

Ditto. I am very skpetical of all these tests posters have been posting recently and taking as averages of a given territory´s population. A better solution would be to genotype people of a given region and graph them infographically. It would be very expensive but it would be theonly way to have a credible study done a population. Let me correct that, these types of studies are credible indeed but they are not representative of a totality just of a part, a very limited at that, of a society´s genetic composition.

Take a look at Mark Wilson´s Job. Certainly removed from genetics properly speaking but useful to approach admixture proportions if his kind of work is combined with a work similar as the one posted above. Albeit, one would think they would need much more markers too as Pro has stated.

(http://www.fastcodesign.com/1669417/infographic-shows-the-shifting-racial-makeup-of-la-20-years-after-rodney-king).

Pao had critized this conception of average too when exemplifying how a skewed average could be made when sampling to mexicans of two very different regions. This case could very well be extrapolated into Latin America as a whole. In PR certain towns like Guaynabo, Las Marias, San German and Cabo Rojo could easily yield averages north of 90% + Euro out of a 444 sbject sample and it would not paint an accurate picture of the admix proportions in PR even if they are on two differents regions of the country.

The inverse could be said about 35% + SSA regions in PR. Thus, by combining both methods, Mark Wilson´s and regular Autosomal studies, one could have a more accurate average of admixture proportions by region within a country. This is necessary when one takes into account the range of differences within regions and between regions at the intra national level in any Latin American Country.

[Incanal]

Maybe they went to the states bordering Paraguay.

Maybe tho the study claims to been made in the whole territory. Now, I don't doubt you can get 30%> in regions like Salta or Chaco but Buenos Aires, Rosario, Entre Rios, etc? Dunno...

[dbbrainer]

With my above post I am basically stating that random tests are not methodologically correct even more so if an average is conjectured by considering a mere 444. This type of tests makes mistakes because they are reductionist to their roots by neither incorporating geography and higher demographic tools combined with the typical genetics methodology.

I have Argentinean friends from all over; from San Miguel de Tucuman, Bahia Blanca down south and Mendoza and all have been at the minimum end of the admix spectrum and that would be assuming they had an admixed geno just because they are latin americans. Their phenos, however, were southern european.

[Ubirajara]

Maybe tho the study claims to been made in the whole territory. Now, I don't doubt you can get 30%> in regions like Salta or Chaco but Buenos Aires, Rosario, Entre Rios, etc? Dunno...

La Plata region:


Hum Biol. 2004 Aug;76(4):543-57.
Characterization of admixture in an urban sample from Buenos Aires, Argentina, using uniparentally and biparentally inherited genetic markers.

In this study we analyzed a sample of the urban population of La Plata, Argentina, using 17 mtDNA haplogroups, the DYS 199 Y-chromosome polymorphism, and 5 autosomal population-associated alleles (PAAs). The contribution of native American maternal lineages to the population of La Plata was estimated as 45.6%, whereas the paternal contribution was much lower (10.6%), clearly indicating directional mating. Regarding autosomal evidence of admixture, the relative European, native American, and West African genetic contributions to the gene pool of La Plata were estimated to be 67.55% (+/-2.7), 25.9% (+/-4.3), and 6.5% (+/-6.4), respectively. When admixture was calculated at the individual level, we found a low correlation between the ancestral contribution estimated with uniparental lineages and autosomal markers. Most of the individuals from La Plata with a native American mtDNA haplogroup or the DYS199*T native American allele show a genetic contribution at the autosomal level that can be traced primarily to Europe. The results of this study emphasize the need to use both uniparentally and biparentally inherited genetic markers to understand the history of admixed populations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15754971

[guitarcrazy]

Actually, most Latin American studies are based on even more woefully small AIM numbers--I've seen some quoted from Cuba based on 18 AIM's! Ridiculous! That is one flaw this study has-although much less then other Latin American studies. The other interesting point to me is what the methodology of evaluation of euro, etc is based on. I can't access the full paper-but it would be nice to know if this uses values like 23andme which are inflated euro values as they count middle east, north african etc as euro; systems like McDonald's shows Italians with very large middle east scores, and Spaniards often show 5-6% middle east, and we've seen up to 12% show up on various Iberians on these fora. Since there is no breakdown for middle east etc., my assumption is that these values have been performed with a similar etiology to those that 23andme uses.

[Ubirajara]

This is the autosomal breakdown of Argentina by province according to an autosomal study from 2009 (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2009.00556.x/pdf):

http://i43.tinypic.com/mlqekp.png

---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 17:03 ----------

Just to add that La Plata region is on the coast in the Buenos Aires province:


La Plata region:


Hum Biol. 2004 Aug;76(4):543-57.
Characterization of admixture in an urban sample from Buenos Aires, Argentina, using uniparentally and biparentally inherited genetic markers.

In this study we analyzed a sample of the urban population of La Plata, Argentina, using 17 mtDNA haplogroups, the DYS 199 Y-chromosome polymorphism, and 5 autosomal population-associated alleles (PAAs). The contribution of native American maternal lineages to the population of La Plata was estimated as 45.6%, whereas the paternal contribution was much lower (10.6%), clearly indicating directional mating. Regarding autosomal evidence of admixture, the relative European, native American, and West African genetic contributions to the gene pool of La Plata were estimated to be 67.55% (+/-2.7), 25.9% (+/-4.3), and 6.5% (+/-6.4), respectively. When admixture was calculated at the individual level, we found a low correlation between the ancestral contribution estimated with uniparental lineages and autosomal markers. Most of the individuals from La Plata with a native American mtDNA haplogroup or the DYS199*T native American allele show a genetic contribution at the autosomal level that can be traced primarily to Europe. The results of this study emphasize the need to use both uniparentally and biparentally inherited genetic markers to understand the history of admixed populations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15754971

[El Andullero]

This is the autosomal breakdown of Argentina by province according to an autosomal study from 2009 (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2009.00556.x/pdf):

http://i43.tinypic.com/9gajp0.png

---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 17:03 ----------

Just to add that La Plata region is on the coast in the Buenos Aires province:

Odd. One would think that Corrientes and Formosa would come more Amerind than Chaco, if anything.

[dbbrainer]

A total of 246 samples Ubirajara? What social classes do you think those subjects come from? What locality within the particular region? SES?

These are questions that are not made on this tests methodology. If they would be addressed they would also point out to the type of people that were not tested. I think Geography and Sociology should be incorporated into the methodology.

[Ubirajara]

True, the studies are not perfect, that's why I posted 2 other different studies, to add information besides that of the study posted by Guitarcrazy. If you're looking for a representation of Argentine crowds, phenotype and not ancestry, you can also google "hinchas de Boca Juniors", or "hinchas de River Plate", or something like that at images google (of course one should look for crowds from the provinces of the interior as well).


A total of 246 samples Ubirajara? What social classes do you think those subjects come from? What locality within the particular region? SES?.

[Incanal]

A total of 246 samples Ubirajara? What social classes do you think those subjects come from? What locality within the particular region? SES?

These are questions that are not made on this tests methodology. If they would be addressed they would also point out to the type of people that were not tested. I think Geography and Sociology should be incorporated into the methodology.

True. This kind of studies still have a long way to go before they become 100% accurate.

[Ubirajara]

But they are more reliable than the guesses of people who have never lived in a given country or never even visited the entire territory of it.


True. This kind of studies still have a long way to go before they become 100% accurate.

[Incanal]

But they are more reliable than the guesses of people who have never lived in a given country or never even visited the entire territory of it.

Well, to me that people don't have even 1% credibility so they don't count to me at all when it comes to these things. These studies can give us some vague picture about the whole stuff but the 'samples' taken are still too minimal (if we compare the vastness of any given country). I think they would work better with isolated communities or small islands. Instead of attempting to recreate the whole composition of a whole country they should start with small areas such as disctricts or neighborhoods.

[Ubirajara]

Those studies follow scientific methodology, and they are based on statistics. They aren't perfect, but they can be relatively reliable, surely more accurate than the guesses of people who have never been to Argentina f.e.


Well, to me that people don't have even 1% credibility so they don't count to me at all when it comes to these things. These studies can give us some vague picture about the whole stuff but the 'samples' taken are still too minimal (if we compare the vastness of any given country). I think they would work better with isolated communities or small islands. Instead of attempting to recreate the whole composition of a whole country they should start with small areas such as disctricts or neighborhoods.

[Malcolm Z]

Actually, most Latin American studies are based on even more woefully small AIM numbers--I've seen some quoted from Cuba based on 18 AIM's! Ridiculous! That is one flaw this study has-although much less then other Latin American studies. The other interesting point to me is what the methodology of evaluation of euro, etc is based on. I can't access the full paper-but it would be nice to know if this uses values like 23andme which are inflated euro values as they count middle east, north african etc as euro; systems like McDonald's shows Italians with very large middle east scores, and Spaniards often show 5-6% middle east, and we've seen up to 12% show up on various Iberians on these fora. Since there is no breakdown for middle east etc., my assumption is that these values have been performed with a similar etiology to those that 23andme uses.

I don't think they use 23andme methodology, they probably use Structure with HGDP samples, adding the Argentinean to the native samples found there.

I also agree with you. Latin American genetic studies are way behind what happens in Europe, North America and Asia. Papers done three years ago in these places already use hundreds of thousands of SNPs. Using only a few AIMs in autosomal studies is what used to happen in the early-to-mid 2000's. Genetics is moving fast and Latin American studies should accompany that. The only study I saw that used thousands of SNPs in Latin Americans was done in the US (http://www.pnas.org/content/107/suppl.2/8954.full). 73,000 SNPs to be more exact.

I don't understand dbbrainer's complaints. This specific genetic study did use geographic information about the subject. There's different breakdowns according to several different regions (North, Buenos Aires, South, etc), and also between different parts of Buenos Aires.

Also, all studies are done in small samples, not just LatAm genetic studies. All scientific studies take advantage of the statistic properties random samples have of being representative of the population to a certain error margin. This is what the confidence interval (IC) means in the percentages posted in the study. There's only a 5% chance the study picked a biased sample of Argentineans and that they're more than 68% European or less than 63% European on average. Of course, that property doesn't take into account type II error (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_and_type_II_errors) (or the error that comes from methodology, like using few AIMs instead of lots of SNPs).

It's important to always see the confidence interval of these studies, as well as what happens when they're applied to "pure" populations (for example, Segio Pena's studies make Portuguese samples seem 95% European on average, for example, compared to 100% European that they get in others). One has to see several studies, done by several different authors with several different samples, to see if they all point in the same direction (this is how we see that African Americans are 20% European on average, for example). Studies with more recent metholodogies are to be preferred.

[Papa Anodyne]

It's a waste of money and time if they're going to do a half ass job.

[kilometro7]

Well, to me that people don't have even 1% credibility so they don't count to me at all when it comes to these things. These studies can give us some vague picture about the whole stuff but the 'samples' taken are still too minimal (if we compare the vastness of any given country). I think they would work better with isolated communities or small islands. Instead of attempting to recreate the whole composition of a whole country they should start with small areas such as disctricts or neighborhoods.

Inca, would yous say that the Argentinians on 23andme come closer to reality or are they a more accurate representation of Argentina, or could they represent a particular region.



100% Euro.
100% Euro.
100% Euro.
99% Euro, 1% Amerind.
99% Euro, 1% Amerind.
99% Euro, 1% Afro.
99% Euro, 1% Amerind.
98% Euro, 2% Amerind.
98% Euro, 1% Afro, 1% Amerind.
98% Euro, 1% Afro, 1% Amerind.
97% Euro, 3% Amerind.
95% Euro, 3% Afro, 2% Amerind.
91% Euro, 7% Amerind, 2% Afro.
90% Euro, 10% Amerind.
90% Euro, 8% Amerind, 2% Afro.
88% Euro, 11% Amerind, 1% Afro.
87% Euro, 13% Amerind, 1% Afro.
86% Euro, 13% Amerind, 1% Afro.
85% Euro, 12% Amerind, 3% Afro.
83% Euro, 17% Amerind.
80% Euro, 19% Amerind, 1% Afro.
75% Euro, 23% Amerind, 3% Afro.
73% Euro, 25% Amerind, 2% Afro.

[Ubirajara]

More important than the number of markers is to test samples according to their respective % in the population, and take samples from all the regions of a given country. The greater the number of markers, the better. But it wouldn't work if the samples aren't representative enough. If you're going to test a few samples from a particular region of Colombia without weighing in its % in the population of Colombia or even how representative it is in that particular region, one will get skewed results no matter how large the number of markers used.


Using only a few AIMs in autosomal studies is what used to happen in the early-to-mid 2000's. Genetics is moving fast and Latin American studies should accompany that.

[kilometro7]

I don't think they use 23andme methodology, they probably use Structure with HGDP samples, adding the Argentinean to the native samples found there.

I also agree with you. Latin American genetic studies are way behind what happens in Europe, North America and Asia. Papers done three years ago in these places already use hundreds of thousands of SNPs. Using only a few AIMs in autosomal studies is what used to happen in the early-to-mid 2000's. Genetics is moving fast and Latin American studies should accompany that. The only study I saw that used thousands of SNPs in Latin Americans was done in the US (http://www.pnas.org/content/107/suppl.2/8954.full). 73,000 SNPs to be more exact.

I don't understand dbbrainer's complaints. This specific genetic study did use geographic information about the subject. There's different breakdowns according to several different regions (North, Buenos Aires, South, etc), and also between different parts of Buenos Aires.

Also, all studies are done in small samples, not just LatAm genetic studies. All scientific studies take advantage of the statistic properties random samples have of being representative of the population to a certain error margin. This is what the confidence interval (IC) means in the percentages posted in the study. There's only a 5% chance the study picked a biased sample of Argentineans and that they're more than 68% European or less than 63% European on average. Of course, that property doesn't take into account type II error (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_and_type_II_errors) (or the error that comes from methodology, like using few AIMs instead of lots of SNPs).

It's important to always see the confidence interval of these studies, as well as what happens when they're applied to "pure" populations (for example, Segio Pena's studies make Portuguese samples seem 95% European on average, for example, compared to 100% European that they get in others). One has to see several studies, done by several different authors with several different samples, to see if they all point in the same direction (this is how we see that African Americans are 20% European on average, for example). Studies with more recent metholodogies are to be preferred.

Great post, and very informative, I completely agree with you, is something I've mentioned several times before.

[dbbrainer]

I don't understand dbbrainer's complaints. This specific genetic study did use geographic information about the subject.

My complain was the scale. I would prefer it be done as Incanal suggested at the neighborhood level and social class composition and built up from there. Basically to integrate proper geography and sociology with these type of studies. I differ Malcolm Z, mentioning were the samples were collected is very far from what I would Ideally like. Of course I am biased as I am a sociologist myself and would like to see it complimented with more profound concepts stemming from geography and sociology.

I am not questioning the results. I am calling for a more complex methodology product of inter academic studies.

---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 14:19 ----------


But it wouldn't work if the samples aren't representative enough. If you're going to test a few samples from a particular region of Colombia without weighing in its % in the population of Colombia or even how representative it is in that particular region, one will get skewed results no matter how large the number of markers used.

Statistics are a great source of info but do not paint a totalizing reality of a given poplation neither IC´s. Would you not rather have a more complex methodology that incorporates a more inter academic approach. Take note that I do not discredit the findings but that it seems that more could be done. Maybe you are satisffied with just a statistical geneticists approach? It is understandable. I do not know what your profession is but mine demands I ask for more in relation to my specific field of study. Maybe you are not interested in the approach I would be interested.

[Ubirajara]

^ I wouldn't question they are far from being complete or perfect. That's why all sorts of information should be taken when making an assessment. I find 23andme and individual DNA test results informative, f.e. One should compare several different studies, study their methodology, etc. The reality in Latin America is really complex, so a grain of salt must be always taken. However, as I said, I find the genetic studies more reliable than the guesses of people who have never visited a country and also more reliable than information from the census or non genetic studies.

[dbbrainer]

I agree. I would just like it to be done on a bigger and more profound scale. Starting at the Neighborhood level and building up to the city level (metropolitan if it is such) passing trough Districts and such. From there taking it to the regional level and then National level. I know it is a lot to ask though.

Also it would be very informative to mention the correlations between socio economic status and racial profiles (admix proportions) and related that correlation to a physical space. It would be very expensive indeed. For what it´s worth these studies are informative but they do lack a lot of potential when one considers what they could potentially incorportae. I hope my concern is understood.

---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 14:34 ----------

please take a look at the link prided in my first post. To do an infograph of these types of tests couple with sociological research would be my preference. Of course that´s only me and I could be alone. But Imagine it, a graph that represents racial profiles, Socio economic status by each region, neighborhood and city level just like the pics in the links provided show.

[Incanal]

Inca, would yous say that the Argentinians on 23andme come closer to reality or are they a more accurate representation of Argentina, or could they represent a particular region.

Interesting numbers. I'll just say this: If the numbers on that study were so accurate then they would match these 23andme results and I think it's really far-fetched to think that just the argies with pred. euro organized to post their results on 23andme.

[kilometro7]

Interesting numbers. I'll just say this: If the numbers on that study were so accurate then they would match these 23andme results and I think it's really far-fetched to think that just the argies with pred. euro organized to post their results on 23andme.

Lol Agreed, especially with the bold part, I'm sharing with about 8 more Argentinians who aren't in the list, but who have similar score to them 85%-99% European. So far the results of Argentinians look pretty consistent to me, they're definitely the most European group of Latin Americans, and these results reflect that.

[Ubirajara]

I think it's really far-fetched to think that just the argies with pred. euro organized to post their results on 23andme.

They are not contradictory, rather they are complementary information IMO (generally, of course, there are exceptions). The genetic studies and individual DNA test results add information. It is not like one versus the other. 23andme DNA test results are informative, and so are the genetic studies.

[Hoxxx]

It would be a great task to test every single neighborhood in every town and city in Argentina; not even taking into account the rural areas, it would take a lot of time considering Argentina's large size and population, but it would be well worth the effort in the end.

[Legion]

This is just not true. If that would be the average Argie then Argentina would look like Paraguay, also it seems they just averaged all regions without proportions. Because the central part is where 75% of the population lives. If Argentina is over 30% native how can poor farmers like this exist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy7h8UZJzdI

Hell, they even could take samples from paraguayans and Bolivians in hospitals in La Plata and put them as Argentines, with such small samples and so little markers.

[aregint]

The thing is that: there is no "average argentinian" at all. They don't exist. The USA is 15% black, but can you really say that the autosomal DNA of all americans is on average 15%? Mathematically you can, but statistically it's nonesense.

There is a sharp cultural division. In rich neighbourhoods you're either look white (90% euro) or you look not-completely-white. Similar-looking people stick together.

Here probably 60% is very predominantly white, and then there are varying degrees of admixture.

[Legion]

The thing is that: there is no "average argentinian" at all. They don't exist. The USA is 15% black, but can you really say that the autosomal DNA of all americans is on average 15%? Mathematically you can, but statistically it's nonesense.

There is a sharp cultural division. In rich neighbourhoods you're either look white (90%) or you look not-completely-white.

Here probably 60% is very predominantly white, and then you have varying degrees of admixture.

Exactly, there is no way Argentines are harnizos on average. These people are not of high social standing, they are poor farmers from the supposedly ultramestizo buenos aires interior. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy7h8UZJzdI

[El R5]

It would be a great task to test every single neighborhood in every town and city in Argentina; not even taking into account the rural areas, it would take a lot of time considering Argentina's large size and population, but it would be well worth the effort in the end.

The ideal would be to take samples from different regions like they have done before. But test people from the low and middle class since they represent approximately 3/4 of the population.

[aregint]

Exactly, there is no way Argentines are harnizos on average. These people are not of high social standing, they are poor farmers from the supposedly ultramestizo buenos aires interior. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy7h8UZJzdI

Yes. Buenos Aires is very big and has wide disparities. Consider that the province has the size of Poland. American Natives in the region were genocided in the XIX century, so the people are (mainly) european. In the second half of the XX century migrants form the north settled in the surrounding areas of Buenos Aires City, so of the 13 milion inhabitants probably more than half are not whites. But in the inner city, and north following the river up to the city of Tigre, they are mostly (80%) white.

The farmers in the video live in the city of Bahía Blanca: that's 600 km south of B.A. and the situation is completely different.

[Hoxxx]

The ideal would be to take samples from different regions like they have done before. But test people from the low and middle class since they represent approximately 3/4 of the population.

What about the upper class?

[El R5]

What about the upper class?

The upper class by default should be Criollo on average no?

[jonboyclem]

Guess the admixture percentages of my friend and her fam from Argentina. Shes of Spanish Italian descent and looks average for Argentina.

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/179877_1808661734010_1163943629_32144403_6638954_n .jpg

[Hoxxx]

.................

[RodrigoChile]

Exactly, there is no way Argentines are harnizos on average. These people are not of high social standing, they are poor farmers from the supposedly ultramestizo buenos aires interior.

Have you ever been to Argentina and seen it with your own eyes? It's not always that easy to spot a castizo with pure sight. Most castizos and probably a large proportion of harnizos can easily pass as south europeans by phenotype.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy7h8UZJzdI

A video doesn´t say much:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu6KAQCqCVM


American Natives in the region were genocided in the XIX century, so the people are (mainly) european. In the second half of the XX century migrants form the north settled in the surrounding areas of Buenos Aires City, so of the 13 milion inhabitants probably more than half are not whites.

Yes the Natives in Argentina were genocided just like in the rest of America, but not extinct. And their DNA has been mixing since back then with the immigrating europeans and blacks. It's not like all the native blood is from immigrants from Bolivia and Paraguay like a lot of people tend to think.


Guess the admixture percentages of my friend and her fam from Argentina. Shes of Spanish Italian descent and looks average for Argentina.

It's really hard to tell just looking at your friend, but judging her parents looks the mother looks amerind influenced (would be easier to tell with the hole face in the pic) and her father might also have some amerind + some afro.

I would guess 75% european, 18% native and 7% african.

[Seraph]

Bullshit study, Argentina is not that amerind. Where did they take the samples from, chilean-bolivian-paraguayan borders?

[Hoxxx]

Have you ever been to Argentina and seen it with your own eyes? It's not always that easy to spot a castizo with pure sight. Most castizos and probably a large proportion of harnizos can easily pass as south europeans by phenotype.

+1

Like Gael Garcia Bernal; the Native American was more visible when he was small.
http://www.men-hairstyle.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Gael-Garcia-Bernal-hairstyle.jpghttp://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f185/97384d1254996544-gael-garcia-bernal-gael-garcia-bernal-5.jpghttp://imstars.aufeminin.com/stars/fan/gael-garcia-bernal/gael-garcia-bernal-20050117-20964.jpg

[Cygnus]

They probably tested a lot of mestizos. I highly doubt the average Argentine has so much Amerindian.

[Incanal]

Guess the admixture percentages of my friend and her fam from Argentina. Shes of Spanish Italian descent and looks average for Argentina.

She looks pretty much euro to me. The chances are 50/50 she's fully euro or not.

[RodrigoChile]

Bullshit study, Argentina is not that amerind. Where did they take the samples from, chilean-bolivian-paraguayan borders?

Samples were taken from all over the country and apparently only from argentinians.

But I agree that this study might overestimate the amerind share of the total admixture. Considering earlier studies stating the total population with amerind ancestry to between 50-60%, a 30% total amerind amount would make those 50-60% mestizos in average or something like that...

That's not impossible, but it's also likely that the amount with amerind ancestry make up more than 50-60% of the population.


Guess the admixture percentages of my friend and her fam from Argentina. Shes of Spanish Italian descent and looks average for Argentina.

What's her results? Because you have them right? :|

[Pro]

Guess the admixture percentages of my friend and her fam from Argentina. Shes of Spanish Italian descent and looks average for Argentina.

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/179877_1808661734010_1163943629_32144403_6638954_n .jpg

The young guy (I'm guessing her brother) sorta looks MENA. Since they are from Argentina I have to make the assumption that they have minor NA, but it is not visible in their pheno. Quite a handsome fella I might add.

[Batman]

"White" Latin American countries will change in the future, they will end up getting very mestizo. Those are the changes they will receive, it will happen to Chile also. I guess people need to get use to that their country wont be "white" anymore, just like the USA better get use to it by now.

Although I have never been to Argentina so I cant comment much on that but from what I have seen, they look European, similar to Italians for the most part.

[RodrigoChile]

"White" Latin American countries will change in the future, they will end up getting very mestizo. Those are the changes they will receive, it will happen to Chile also. I guess people need to get use to that their country wont be "white" anymore, just like the USA better get use to it by now.

That's true, and it's changing quite fast. It's getting more mixed for every day.

I don't know if you count Chile as a "white" country but Chile has always had a mayority of amerind and mixed amerinds. I would say at least 90% of the chileans have amerind ancestry.

[Batman]

That's true, and it's changing quite fast. It's getting more mixed for every day.

I don't know if you count Chile as a "white" country but Chile has always had a mayority of amerind and mixed amerinds. I would say at least 90% of the chileans have amerind ancestry.

Chile to me seems more like Harnizo/Castizo on average, well that's how I view Chile. I think Chile is up with Argentina and Uruguay, but I find Uruguayans and Argentinians whiter than Chileans.

[RodrigoChile]

Chile to me seems more like Harnizo/Castizo on average, well that's how I view Chile. I think Chile is up with Argentina and Uruguay, but I find Uruguayans and Argentinians whiter than Chileans.

Yep, I also believe Chile is harnizo on average, something like 35-40% amerind at least.

Argentina and Uruguay had a much bigger and more recent immigration from Europe and is clearly more european than Chile. In fact argentina's "white" population is possibly about the same size as the whole chilean population.

[Incanal]

"White" Latin American countries will change in the future, they will end up getting very mestizo. Those are the changes they will receive, it will happen to Chile also. I guess people need to get use to that their country wont be "white" anymore, just like the USA better get use to it by now.

This comment gave me a 'racial resentful' vibe.