View Full Version : A Puerto Rican Woman Claims Her Place In The African Diaspora
BlackEGO
2010-03-01, 19:27
Who is Black? A Puerto Rican Woman Claims Her Place In The African Diaspora.
by Rosa Clemente, founder of the R.E.A.C.Hip Hop Coalition
An interesting thing happened to me the other day. I was told I am not Black. The kicker for me was when my friend said that the island of Puerto Rico was not a part of the African Diaspora. I wanted to go back to the old skool playground days and yell: You said what about my momma?! But after speaking to several friends, I found out that many Black Americans and Latinos agree with him. The miseducation of the Negro is still in effect!
I am so tired of having to prove to others that I am Black, that my people are from the Motherland, that Puerto Rico, along with Cuba, Panama and the Dominican Republic are part of the African Diaspora. Do we forget that the slave ships dispersed our people all over the world, hence the word Diaspora?
The Atlantic slave trade brought Africans to Puerto Rico in the early 1500s. Some of the first slave rebellions took place on the island of Puerto Rico. Until 1846, Africanos on the island had to carry a libreta to move around the island, like the passbook system in apartheid South Africa. In Puerto Rico, you will find large communities of descendants of the Yoruba, Bambara, Wolof and Mandingo people. Puerto Rican culture is inherently African culture.
There are hundreds of books that will inform you, but I do not need to read book after book to legitimize this thesis or to tell me what I am. All I need to do is go to Puerto Rico and look all around me. Damn, all I really have to do is look in the mirror every day.
I am often asked what I am usually by Blacks who are lighter than me, and by Latinos as dark or darker than me. To answer the ,000 question, I am a Black Boricua, Black Rican, Puertoriquea! Almost always I am questioned about why I choose to call myself Black over Latina, Spanish or Hispanic. Let me break it down.
I am not Spanish. Spanish is just another language I speak. I am not a Hispanic. My ancestors are not descendants of Spain, but descendants of Africa. I define my existence by race and land. (Borinken is the indigenous name of the island of Puerto Rico.)
Being Latino is not a cultural identity but rather a political one. Being Puerto Rican is not a racial identity, but rather a cultural and national one. Being Black is my racial identity. Why do I have to consistently explain this to those who are so-called conscious? Is it because they have a problem with their own identity? Why is it so bad to assert who I am, for me to big-up my Africanness?
My Blackness is one of the greatest powers I have. We live in a society that devalues Blackness all the time. I will not be devalued as a human being, as a child of the Supreme Creator.
Although many of us in activist circles are enlightened, many of us have baggage that we must deal with. So many times I am asked why many Boricuas refuse to affirm their Blackness. I attribute this denial to the ever-rampant anti-Black sentiment in America and throughout the world, but I will not use this as an excuse. Often Puerto Ricans who assert our Blackness are not only outcast by Latinos who identify more with their Spanish Conqueror than their African ancestors, but we are also shunned by Black Americans who do not see us as Black.
Nelly Fuller, a great Black sociologist, said this: Until one understands the system of White supremacy, anything and everything else will confuse you. Divide and conquer still applies.
Listen people: Being Black is not just skin color, nor is it synonymous with Black Americans. To assert who I am is the most liberating and revolutionary thing I can ever do. Being a Black Puerto Rican encompasses me racially, ethically and most importantly, gives me a homeland to refer to.
So I have come to this conclusion: I am whatever I say I am! (Thank you, Rakim.)
Rosa Clemente is a journalist with WBAI Radio in NYC and founder of the R.E.A.C.Hip Hop Coalition, a Hip Hop Media Activist Organization and can be reached at clementerosa@gmail.com
Afro-Latinos are becoming more conscious of the false pretense of a "color blind" society which are fed to them in Latin America. Do you guys believe now that more are waking up, this will threaten the dymanics of nationality?
Who is Black? A Puerto Rican Woman Claims Her Place In The African Diaspora.
Afro-Latinos are becoming more conscious of the false pretense of a "color blind" society which are fed to them in Latin America. Do you guys believe now that more are waking up, this will threaten the dymanics of nationality?
National unity will always dominate vs. racial unity in Latin America. You Americans can keep segregating yourselves via something so trivial as race, but it's not going to happen in Latin America (on a majority level).
National unity will always dominate vs. racial unity in Latin America. You Americans can keep segregating yourselves via something so trivial as race, but it's not going to happen in Latin America (on a majority level).
Absolutely. So call AA should realize they are more influenced by the the Anglosaxon culture than by Africa. Americans should mind theirs own business and leave Latin America alone.
Absolutely. So call AA should realize they are more influenced by the the Anglosaxon culture than by Africa. Americans should mind theirs own business and leave Latin America alone.
Well, I don't believe in Latin American unity either as you know. ;)
But that would make more sense than racial unity, that just doesn't work in a country with a variety of different races.
It's true. I would even say that white-Hispanic Caribbeans are more influenced by African culture than Aframs. Aframs are the most assimilated group out of the afro-american diaspora, imo. That's what makes it so ironic about them trying so hard to distance themselves from white-americans.
BlackEGO
2010-03-01, 19:46
National unity will always dominate vs. racial unity in Latin America. You Americans can keep segregating yourselves via something so trivial as race, but it's not going to happen in Latin America (on a majority level).
According to whom? If such was the case, blond hair, blue eyed Hispanics would not be the only folk you see in the media in Latin America. :evilgrin:
According to whom? If such was the case, blond hair, blue eyed Hispanics would not be the only folk you see in the media in Latin America. :evilgrin:
They aren't. Telemundo or whatever the fuck you get on cable in your slum doesn't represent Latin America. The last telenovela I watched was from Peru, and the mayor and the police chief on the show were both black. The main star was a pretty indigenous looking mestizo. :o
I never said there wasn't discrimination. There is. But still that doesn't change the fact that nationality is more important than race to the vast majority.
EiCibaeño
2010-03-01, 20:01
Well, I don't believe in Latin American unity either as you know. ;)
But that would make more sense than racial unity, that just doesn't work in a country with a variety of different races.
It's true. I would even say that white-Hispanic Caribbeans are more influenced by African culture than Aframs. Aframs are the most assimilated group out of the afro-american diaspora, imo. That's what makes it so ironic about them trying so hard to distance themselves from white-americans.
I believe in a very loose Hispanic-American (maybe at most Ibero-American) unity in the sense of greater economic cooperation, but not some sort of holding hands across the Americas deal.
Well put. We are definitely more culturally African than they are. To put that one component ahead of other facets doesn't sit well with me. I think at least Dominicans (the group I'm obviously acquainted with) and from what I've heard Puerto Ricans talk about their tri-cultural (if not directly tri-racial) roots openly.
They aren't. Telemundo or whatever the fuck you get on cable in your slum doesn't represent Latin America. The last telenovela I watched was from Peru, and the mayor and the police chief on the show were both black. The main star was a pretty indigenous looking mestizo. :o
I never said there wasn't discrimination. There is. But still that doesn't change the fact that nationality is more important than race to the vast majority.
EiCibaeno showed me a study that actually supports this, especially with Cubans.
This is where LatinAmerica and racialist AngloAmericans clash, they cannot comprehend that it is one culture, independent of race/color. The clearest divisions in LatinAmerican society are socioeconomic ones.
^^^ Yes, I've met Puerto Ricans who looked straight up European with no admixture claiming that they are not white, but "Spanish, African, and Taino".
They may very-well be, I can't judge since I look straight up Europid too and have significant African ancestry, but there might be some who say so just because the triracial identity is what is "in" amongst Puerto Ricans (i.e. mestizaje).
It's true. I would even say that white-Hispanic Caribbeans are more influenced by African culture than Aframs. Aframs are the most assimilated group out of the afro-american diaspora, imo. That's what makes it so ironic about them trying so hard to distance themselves from white-americans.
There's no question about it. Like I said in the other thread, the palest, most lily white Cuban, Puerto Rican or Domincan has incorporated much more blakc influences in the creolization of their cultures than Aframs.
Rabid Afrocentric Afram extremist can walk around all day with an afro shouting and an Africa necklace, but they are virtual black Englishmen in comparison.
EiCibaeño
2010-03-01, 20:09
EiCibaeno showed me a study that actually supports this, especially with Cubans.
This is where LatinAmerica and racialist AngloAmericans clash, they cannot comprehend that it is one culture, independent of race/color. The clearest divisions in LatinAmerican society are socioeconomic ones.
Even in Cuba, a country who could be said to have had racial problems, black Cubans are still extremely proud to be Cuban first.
It would be hilarious if it turned out this woman was actually white or near-white.
EiCibaeño
2010-03-01, 20:13
It would be hilarious if it turned out this woman was actually white or near-white.
That's sometimes the case. A very light skinned black kid I used to know was the most Afrocentric, as if he had to prove something.
Even in Cuba, a country who could be said to have had racial problems, black Cubans are still extremely proud to be Cuban first.
People that think like BlackEgo are racial socialist or communist. They put skin color and/or African ancestry first about everything which is a very superficial and artificial thing to do. Like I've said countless times before with this example:
To LatinAmericans, Pele is a Brazilian soccer player, El Duque is a Cuban baseball player, David Ortiz is a Dominican baseball player, they don't see 'just three black guys'. They see 3 different nationalities, and IF they were to describe their phenotype is when they would comment the racial aspect.
Robin Goodfellow
2010-03-01, 20:15
I'd love to see her picture:D
BlackEGO
2010-03-01, 20:19
They aren't. Telemundo or whatever the fuck you get on cable in your slum doesn't represent Latin America. The last telenovela I watched was from Peru, and the mayor and the police chief on the show were both black. The main star was a pretty indigenous looking mestizo. :o
I never said there wasn't discrimination. There is. But still that doesn't change the fact that nationality is more important than race to the vast majority.
You donkey, prove me wrong, everyone knows white skin blue eyed folks run Latin America. Who you think you fooling, thats why you racially screwed up folk want to be them. Just like Dominicans want to be African American!
Please don't make me post statements from Island Dominicans proving a hatred of blackness! If I lived in a slum, how would i be able to afford cable? Dumb halfbreed.
EiCibaeño
2010-03-01, 20:20
I'd love to see her picture:D
I think this is her.
BlackEGO
2010-03-01, 20:22
There's no question about it. Like I said in the other thread, the palest, most lily white Cuban, Puerto Rican or Domincan has incorporated much more blakc influences in the creolization of their cultures than Aframs.
Rabid Afrocentric Afram extremist can walk around all day with an afro shouting and an Africa necklace, but they are virtual black Englishmen in comparison.
Fag, you know nothing of AA culture, however when I go to crown heights which is nothing but an infest of roaches an rats, you see nothing but a bunch of folk who wish to be AA. Go back to the DR, stop living off the rights my people fought for, you leech.
I think this is her.
Mulatta
jonboyclem
2010-03-01, 20:25
There's no question about it. Like I said in the other thread, the palest, most lily white Cuban, Puerto Rican or Domincan has incorporated much more blakc influences in the creolization of their cultures than Aframs.
Rabid Afrocentric Afram extremist can walk around all day with an afro shouting and an Africa necklace, but they are virtual black Englishmen in comparison.
We AfAm's have subtily retained alot of our West African heritage in our worship, food, music, and the way we speak. But we are basically Afro-Saxons like you said, and don't realize how culturally similar we are to Euro Americans(especially White Southerners), than to other Afro-descendeds in the New World. BlackEGO and the Bass would argue otherwise, but it's the truth.
I think this is her.
This article reminds me of another one we're both seen. I will start a thread on it.
BlackEGO
2010-03-01, 20:33
We AfAm's have subtily retained alot of our West African heritage in our worship, food, music, and the way we speak. But we are basically Afro-Saxons like you said, and don't realize how culturally similar we are to Euro Americans(especially White Southerners), than to other Afro-descendeds in the New World. BlackEGO and the Bass would argue otherwise, but it's the truth.
You're in Cali, me and the Bass are in the South! We still eat Soul-food, not that water down soul food which the blacks in cali, and up north eat, we eat real soul food which have many African influence, we still have grandparents who will put voodoo on an enemy. We still listen to blues, and Jazz which are all African influence. Take a trip to the coast of Georgia, we still have people who speak and African language, practice an African religion, and are more African culturally than any Afro-Hispanic. :evilgrin:
Decimator
2010-03-01, 20:44
I guess so. Blacks in every respective Hispanic countries talk with the same accent as everybody else. Blacks in America talk in Ebonics.
What does that tell you about assimilation?
BlackEGO
2010-03-01, 20:48
I guess so. Blacks in every respective Hispanic countries talk with the same accent as everybody else. Blacks in America talk in Ebonics.
What does that tell you about assimilation?
You have owned yourself again! If black speaks Ebonics, it means blacks have not assimilated into American society, since white and black Americans both speak different.
Who was it that said blacks americans have no culture elements of Africa, egg on your face!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Nem-PNHLY
:evilgrin:
Decimator
2010-03-01, 20:50
You have owned yourself again! If black speaks Ebonics, it means blacks have not assimilated into American society, since white and black Americans both speak different.
Who was it that said blacks americans have no culture elements of Africa, egg on your face!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Nem-PNHLY
:evilgrin:
You be very confrontative nigga.
I said "I guess", that's mean I agree
What I wanted to say is that perceived "Black" populations in Latin America are very de-africanized
I think this is her.
I wouldn't be surprised if she's just the kid of some boricuas born in the US instead of a Rican per se, that is, another american with identity crisis.
They aren't. Telemundo or whatever the fuck you get on cable in your slum doesn't represent Latin America. The last telenovela I watched was from Peru, and the mayor and the police chief on the show were both black. The main star was a pretty indigenous looking mestizo. :o
I never said there wasn't discrimination. There is. But still that doesn't change the fact that nationality is more important than race to the vast majority.
Do you remember the name?
Decimator
2010-03-01, 21:10
I wouldn't be surprised if she's just the kid of some boricuas born in the US instead of a Rican per se, that is, another american with identity crisis.
Do you remember the name?
Laura en Amrica :lol::lol::lol:
If black speaks Ebonics, it means blacks have not assimilated into American society, since white and black Americans both speak different.
On the contrary. Ebonics is just a slang of English, and English, as you may know, is the base of Anglosaxon culture.
We AfAm's have subtily retained alot of our West African heritage in our worship, food, music, and the way we speak. But we are basically Afro-Saxons like you said, and don't realize how culturally similar we are to Euro Americans(especially White Southerners), than to other Afro-descendeds in the New World. BlackEGO and the Bass would argue otherwise, but it's the truth.
For stating an obvious truth, you will now be targeted by our resident Afrocentric extremists. I don't know why they have a problem accepting this. You are correct, a white Southerner and an Afram are the closest culturally.
I guess so. Blacks in every respective Hispanic countries talk with the same accent as everybody else. Blacks in America talk in Ebonics.
What does that tell you about assimilation?
You have owned yourself again! If black speaks Ebonics, it means blacks have not assimilated into American society, since white and black Americans both speak different.
Ebonics, properly, is an offshoot of Dixie English, and it doesn't really resemble African linguistics. Black Americans spoke Africanized English maybe 150-200 years ago, but not anymore.
EiCibaeño
2010-03-01, 21:54
I wouldn't be surprised if she's just the kid of some boricuas born in the US instead of a Rican per se, that is, another american with identity crisis
She definitely is. born and raised in the South Bronx. Nuyorican through and through. She's also a ultra-leftist.
She's also a ultra-leftist.
That's it right there. Everyone in Puerto Rico thinks they're white -- except white leftards. :lol:
She's also a ultra-leftist.
I see. That's why. Commies have a very strange identification system :lol:
---------- Post added 2010-03-01 at 20:14 ----------
That's it right there. Everyone in Puerto Rico thinks they're white -- except white leftards. :lol:
:lol:
That makes sense. And, of course, communists aren't white... they are "red".:evilgrin:
I can tell you that my mother was born and raises in Bronx, Ny and she went to school with a entirely black and puero rican population. Never did she consider herself part of the black community nor did most puerto ricans. She even had several confrontations with african americans. To this day my mom's family claims no african heritage, only indian.
EiCibaeño
2010-03-02, 00:54
I can tell you that my mother was born and raises in Bronx, Ny and she went to school with a entirely black and puero rican population. Never did she consider herself part of the black community nor did most puerto ricans. She even had several confrontations with african americans. To this day my mom's family claims no african heritage, only indian.
Not to be crass, but what do they say about your face's bottom half? :confused:
Is there anyone else in your mother's family who exhibits those, or any other "black", features?
Not to be crass, but what do they say about your face's bottom half? :confused:
Is there anyone else in your mother's family who exhibits those, or any other "black", features?
haha, i never have mentioned anything about black heritage, ever! im to scared to bring it up. Its obvious in some of my aunts and uncles.
anyways heres my mothers family(minus my mother)
EiCibaeño
2010-03-02, 01:12
haha, i never have mentioned anything about black heritage, ever! im to scared to bring it up. Its obvious in some of my aunts and uncles.
anyways heres my mothers family(minus my mother)
Nice family. They look mixed but mostly Caucasian. None of them seem to have your facial structure, but mixed race families are quirky like that.
They look like pretty typical Puerto Rican light mulattoes/quads. I don't see Indian features, frankly.
Nice family. They look mixed but mostly Caucasian. None of them seem to have your facial structure, but mixed race families are quirky like that.
i never though i had a odd facial structure. Just big lips and stuff. But i think part of the reason I look the way I do is because of my fathers side. Like I appear more african influenced than I am due to a combination of phenotypes. IDK Funny thing is my brother loves to make fun of my lips but the jokes in him, hes gonna have the same big lips in a few years, I can tell.
They look like pretty typical Puerto Rican light mulattoes/quads. I don't see Indian features, frankly.
i think my grandfather looks mestizo.
i think my grandfather looks mestizo.
He can easily pass for a Mexican .
Decimator
2010-03-02, 01:41
He can easily pass for a Mexican .
A few Puerto Ricans can pass. But most don't. Even lighter types like Daddy Yankee look different.
Storm could pass as Mexican easily too.
A few Puerto Ricans can pass. But most don't. Even lighter types like Daddy Yankee look different.
Storm could pass as Mexican easily too.
I think more Caribbean Latinos can pass for Mexicans from certain regions than vice versa. The segments that overlap in phenotype are:
Caribbean Latinos that can easily blend in Mexico:
-The whites (those of predominately European ancestry)
-The tri-racials that are more Amerind. influenced (looking similar to some Mestizos)
The Mexicans that can easily blend in the Caribbean:
-The whites
-Some of the the mestizos (but not the ones from Puebla). Although no one in this forum will believe me if I said I walked into a bar in Northern NJ and I had difficulty telling apart some of the barmaids/female bartenders (Mexicans from Dominicans) from just looking at their faces.
Decimator
2010-03-02, 02:13
I think more Caribbean Latinos can pass for Mexicans from certain regions than vice versa. The segments that overlap in phenotype are:
Caribbean Latinos that can easily blend in Mexico:
-The whites (those of predominately European ancestry)
-The tri-racials that are more Amerind. influenced (looking similar to some Mestizos)
The Mexicans that can easily blend in the Caribbean:
-The whites
-Some of the the mestizos (but not the ones from Puebla). Although no one in this forum will believe me if I said I walked into a bar in Northern NJ and I had difficulty telling apart some of the barmaids/female bartenders (Mexicans from Dominicans) from just looking at their faces.
Mhmhm. I would need to look at them to tell you. I can even recognize the Salvadorians that have similar admixture to us (Mestizos too) appart.
Mhmhm. I would need to look at them to tell you. I can even recognize the Salvadorians that have similar admixture to us (Mestizos too) appart.
Don't forget that I live on the East Coast, the Mexicans here are not similar to the ones out West. People here have trouble sometimes telling apart some Mexican Poblanos from other Central Americans or even South Americans unless something gives it away (like the accent).
But I know what you mean, if you've got an eye for these things it hard to explain to outsiders.
A few Puerto Ricans can pass. But most don't. Even lighter types like Daddy Yankee look different.
I have no idea on the % that can pass.
Some can pass for Mexicans like JLO,Roseyln Sanchez,Eric Estrada,Elvis Crespo,Olga Tanon ,Sotomayor. etc. i Think its more than a few.
Storm could pass as Mexican easily too.
I never seen Storm's picture.
---------- Post added 2010-03-01 at 18:32 ----------
Mhmhm. I would need to look at them to tell you. I can even recognize the Salvadorians that have similar admixture to us (Mestizos too) appart.
Those Salvadoreans can pass for Southern Mexicans and Chilangos.
Decimator
2010-03-02, 02:40
I have no idea on the % that can pass.
Some can pass for Mexicans like JLO,Roseyln Sanchez,Eric Estrada,Elvis Crespo,Olga Tanon ,Sotomayor. etc. i Think its more than a few.
I never seen Storm's picture.
---------- Post added 2010-03-01 at 18:32 ----------
Those Salvadoreans can pass for Southern Mexicans and Chilangos.
Most don't. Maybe Guatemalans. But not Salvadorians. Sure they don't call much attention but they have something I can't explain, it has to do with their facial proportions
Most don't. Maybe Guatemalans. But not Salvadorians. Sure they don't call much attention but they have something I can't explain, it has to do with their facial proportions
I cant tell the difference between central americans worth a flip. Cept Guatemalans are really native looking, atleast my neighbors were.
EiCibaeño
2010-03-02, 02:52
We have Mexicans and Central Americans around here. I can sometimes tell the difference but like any American I tend to refer to them all as Mexicans.:p
Do you remember the name?
It's from 1999 or 2000, not sure of the name they play repeats on Canal 41 Miami, next time it's on I'll check. The black dude who plays the police chief I've seen in another telenovela, the Amerindian looking guy I mentioned played a priest in the soap Isabella.
---------- Post added 2010-03-02 at 00:10 ----------
Laura en Amrica :lol::lol::lol:
:lol::thumbsup:
---------- Post added 2010-03-02 at 00:13 ----------
I think this is her.
Is that seriously her? She definitely looks like she stepped off a boat from the Congo. :lol:
National unity will always dominate vs. racial unity in Latin America. You Americans can keep segregating yourselves via something so trivial as race, but it's not going to happen in Latin America (on a majority level).
So cool. I like you guys, just like India.:thumbsup:
Who is Black? A Puerto Rican Woman Claims Her Place In The African Diaspora.
Afro-Latinos are becoming more conscious of the false pretense of a "color blind" society which are fed to them in Latin America. Do you guys believe now that more are waking up, this will threaten the dymanics of nationality?
Rosa Clemente is a kind of Hip-Hop Afrocentric activist. These are accurate descriptors as opposed to invectives. So that should tell you where she is coming from.
Also, I'm not aware that Latinos see themselves as color blind. They are probably more color aware than race consciousness....Kind of like African America, but many African Americans are reluctant to discuss such things because they are divisive.
What she's advocating is race consciousness rooted in an idealized "African-ness" as opposed to color consciousness, which already exists among her people (her people being Puerto Rican Americans). Pics of Clemente:
http://www.umw.edu/multicultural/cas/images/RosaClemente2.jpg
http://www.freepress.net/files/images/sp_Clemente.jpg
She looks like a PR friend of mine who doesn't consider herself black at all but tri-racial. She has an African American husband, so her view of herself hasn't discouraged her crossing ethnic lines.
Unfortunately for Clemente, most Puerto Rican Americans (Puerto Ricans born or raised on the mainland) whom she thinks should aren't going to embrace a black ethno/political identity. Even those who self-identify as black or acknowledge their African ancestry (along with their other ancestries) aren't going to be black on her terms.
Her need to proclaim that she is really black to African Americans isn't surprising. Most PRs who look like her and even those who are "blacker" aren't usually seen as "really black" by African Americans in the tri-state area.
PR-Americans don't form endogamous groups on the mainland, and there really isn't social separation amongst PRs of different hues; they live in the same neighborhoods and socialize with each other and intermarry. I assume, like many PR Americans, Clemente has extended family that aren't remotely black-looking. For many PR Americans, their race appears to be "Puerto Rican".
PR-Americans don't form endogamous groups on the mainland, and there really isn't social separation amongst PRs of different hues; they live in the same neighborhoods and socialize with each other and intermarry. I assume, like many PR Americans, Clemente has extended family that aren't remotely black-looking. For many PR Americans, their race appears to be "Puerto Rican".
I've told you this before, but your posts reflect the fact that you actually have had real world personal experience in these matters and have had the advantage of interacting with diverse groups in the tri-state. This paragraph also holds true for Dominicans here. And if you recall, the administrator from that other site also commented on the fact that PR's, DR's & Cubans don't greatly differ in regards to self-identification/ perceptions on race/color, etc.
I also recall when you mentioned that your travels gave you a perspective that was lacking in the world of pure academia.
You can see this total lack of real world knowledge, actually even lack of knowledge period, when racialist posters from Missisippi & Florida want to engage in debates on certain LatinAmerican nationalities they have no clue about.
BlackEGO
2010-03-02, 19:12
Rosa Clemente is a kind of Hip-Hop Afrocentric activist. These are accurate descriptors as opposed to invectives. So that should tell you where she is coming from. Also, I'm not aware that Latinos see themselves as color blind. They are probably more color aware than race consciousness....Kind of like African America, but many African Americans are reluctant to discuss such things because they are divisive.
Her being Afrocentric has to do exactly with what? Afrocentricity, is the philosophy of the African point of view, and not the other way around. A person of African decent is supposed to be Afrocentric, as would be expected of that of European decent to be Eurocentric. Such is not an insult, nor does is destroy her system of belief. Everyone who have some sort of knowledge know that Hispanics have been taught to believe that Latin America is a color blind society. Nevertheless, Lucia Newman even stated such in the following.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBNUOsrIiAs
Latin America is no different from India, for they also have a castle system.
What she's advocating is race consciousness rooted in an idealized "African-ness" as opposed to color consciousness, which already exists among her people (her people being Puerto Rican Americans).
Which is the castle system of Latin America.
She looks like a PR friend of mine who doesn't consider herself black at all but tri-racial. She has an African American husband, so her view of herself hasn't discouraged her crossing ethnic lines.
And this has to do exactly with what?
Unfortunately for Clemente, most Puerto Rican Americans (Puerto Ricans born or raised on the mainland) whom she thinks should aren't going to embrace a black ethno/political identity. Even those who self-identify as black or acknowledge their African ancestry (along with their other ancestries) aren't going to be black on her terms.
Thats because of years of brainwashed philosophy.
Her need to proclaim that she is really black to African Americans isn't surprising. Most PRs who look like her and even those who are "blacker" aren't usually seen as "really black" by African Americans in the tri-state area.
And since when have you become the voice of African Americans, last time I checked you weren't even black, you don't know what we say in closed doors. You would be surprised.
PR-Americans don't form endogamous groups on the mainland, and there really isn't social separation amongst PRs of different hues; they live in the same neighborhoods and socialize with each other and intermarry. I assume, like many PR Americans, Clemente has extended family that aren't remotely black-looking. For many PR Americans, their race appears to be "Puerto Rican".
You know as well as I do that Latin Americans are more color consensus, than Americans. There place in D.R in which dark skin folk can't even enter. Racially Hispaincs are the msot screwed up people, the Europeans know it, The Arabs know it, the Asians know it, the aborginals know it, and the Africans know it. We just look back while yall look like fools.
I've told you this before, but your posts reflect the fact that you actually have had real world personal experience in these matters and have had the advantage of interacting with diverse groups in the tri-state. This paragraph also holds true for Dominicans here. And if you recall, the administrator from that other site also commented on the fact that PR's, DR's & Cubans don't greatly differ in regards to self-identification/ perceptions on race/color, etc.
I also recall when you mentioned that your travels gave you a perspective that was lacking in the world of pure academia.
You can see this total lack of real world knowledge, actually even lack of knowledge period, when racialist posters from Missisippi & Florida want to engage in debates on certain LatinAmerican nationalities they have no clue about.
^ This fag is so subliminal. Its hilarious that you would speak of lack of knowledge, when you were the one that acutally posted an article from an un-academic source; all you have done was prove how academically disadvantage you are. And whats even more hilarious you posted such strife from a websites that gets less than100 visitors a month, agenda driven. Dumb Dominican. Them Crown Heights projects taught you nothing about the real world, only enable furthered dynamics into the castle system which you believe in.
In the history of Latin America over the last 500 years or so, the relationships among three races have been a key factor. In the beginning, there were the various indigenous groups. Then came the European colonizers, who later brought black slaves from Africa. The relationships among these racial groups have at times been tumultuous --- war, slaughter, subjugation, slavery, exploitation, miscegenation, ...
The administration of the vast colonies was placed in the hands of nationals of the European empires. These administrators were rewarded estates for their efforts, and naturally inheritance rights became a significant issue. As a male may have multiple children with multiple women, the rights of these apparent heirs have to be defined, particularly when some of the mothers were not pure Europeans. Under Spanish rule, the following detailed caste system was instituted in Mexico at one time.
1. Mestizo: Spanish father and Indian mother
2. Castizo: Spanish father and Mestizo mother
3. Espomolo: Spanish mother and Castizo father
4. Mulatto: Spanish and black African
5. Moor: Spanish and Mulatto
6. Albino: Spanish father and Moor mother
7. Throwback: Spanish father and Albino mother
8. Wolf: Throwback father and Indian mother
9. Zambiago: Wolf father and Indian mother
10. Cambujo: Zambiago father and Indian mother
11. Alvarazado: Cambujo father and Mulatto mother
12. Borquino: Alvarazado father and Mulatto mother
13. Coyote: Borquino father and Mulatto mother
14. Chamizo: Coyote father and Mulatto mother
15. Coyote-Mestizo: Cahmizo father and Mestizo mother
16. Ahi Tan Estas: Coyote-Mestizo father and Mulatto mother
:whoco:
To us, this does seem to be a obsessive-compulsive behavior of an extreme sort. Today, the overt caste systems have been overturned by legislation, but that does not mean that social prejudices and economic exploitation are not present. Even though overt racial oppression is no longer permissible by law, people may still hold personal opinions about members of other races based upon preconceived notions.
Now much of this is premised upon one's ability to classify people into the appropriate racial categories based upon physical appearances. Unfortunately, this is difficult as there is not a clear-cut situation when any individual can be unambiguously classified into one (and only one) of a short list of racial classes. A simple classification scheme based upon color --- white, black, brown and yellow --- ignores the various shades.
One way to derive a classification system is through self-definition, which presumably applies to others too. In 1976, the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics (IBGE) conducted a study to ask people to identify their own skin color. Here are the 134 terms, listed in alphabetical order:
1. Acastanhada (cashewlike tint; caramel colored)
2. Agalegada
3. Alva (pure white)
4. Alva-escura (dark or off-white)
5. Alverenta (or aliviero, "shadow in the water")
6. Alvarinta (tinted or bleached white)
7. Alva-rosada (or jamote, roseate, white with pink highlights)
8. Alvinha (bleached; white-washed)
9. Amarela (yellow)
10. Amarelada (yellowish)
11. Amarela-quemada (burnt yellow or ochre)
12. Amarelosa (yellowed)
13. Amorenada (tannish)
14. Avermelhada (reddish, with blood vessels showing through the skin)
15. Azul (bluish)
16. Azul-marinho (deep bluish)
17. Baiano (ebony)
18. Bem-branca (very white)
19. Bem-clara (translucent)
20. Bem-morena (very dusky)
21. Branca (white)
22. Branca-avermelhada (peach white)
23. Branca-melada (honey toned)
24. Branca-morena (darkish white)
25. Branca-plida (pallid)
26. Branca-queimada (sunburned white)
27. Branca-sardenta (white with brown spots)
28. Branca-suja (dirty white)
29. Branquia (a white variation)
30. Branquinha (whitish)
31. Bronze (bronze)
32. Bronzeada (bronzed tan)
33. Bugrezinha-escura (Indian characteristics)
34. Burro-quanto-foge ("burro running away," implying racial mixture of unknown origin)
35. Cabocla (mixture of white, Negro and Indian)
36. Cabo-Verde (black; Cape Verdean)
37. Caf (coffee)
38. Caf-com-leite (coffee with milk)
39. Canela (cinnamon)
40. Canelada (tawny)
41. Casto (thistle colored)
42. Castanha (cashew)
43. Castanha-clara (clear, cashewlike)
44. Castanha-escura (dark, cashewlike)
45. Chocolate (chocolate brown)
46. Clara (light)
47. Clarinha (very light)
48. Cobre (copper hued)
49. Corado (ruddy)
50. Cor-de-caf (tint of coffee)
51. Cor-de-canela (tint of cinnamon)
52. Cor-de-cuia (tea colored)
53. Cor-de-leite (milky)
54. Cor-de-oro (golden)
55. Cor-de-rosa (pink)
56. Cor-firma ("no doubt about it")
57. Crioula (little servant or slave; African)
58. Encerada (waxy)
59. Enxofrada (pallid yellow; jaundiced)
60. Esbranquecimento (mostly white)
61. Escura (dark)
62. Escurinha (semidark)
63. Fogoio (florid; flushed)
64. Galega (see agalegada above)
65. Galegada (see agalegada above)
66. Jambo (like a fruit the deep-red color of a blood orange)
67. Laranja (orange)
68. Lils (lily)
69. Loira (blond hair and white skin)
70. Loira-clara (pale blond)
71. Loura (blond)
72. Lourinha (flaxen)
73. Malaia (from Malabar)
74. Marinheira (dark greyish)
75. Marrom (brown)
76. Meio-amerela (mid-yellow)
77. Meio-branca (mid-white)
78. Meio-morena (mid-tan)
79. Meio-preta (mid-Negro)
80. Melada (honey colored)
81. Mestia (mixture of white and Indian)
82. Miscigenao (mixed --- literally "miscegenated")
83. Mista (mixed)
84. Morena (tan)
85. Morena-bem-chegada (very tan)
86. Morena-bronzeada (bronzed tan)
87. Morena-canelada (cinnamonlike brunette)
88. Morena-castanha (cashewlike tan)
89. Morena clara (light tan)
90. Morena-cor-de-canela (cinnamon-hued brunette)
91. Morena-jambo (dark red)
92. Morenada (mocha)
93. Morena-escura (dark tan)
94. Morena-fechada (very dark, almost mulatta)
95. Moreno (very dusky tan)
96. Morena-parda (brown-hued tan)
97. Morena-roxa (purplish-tan)
98. Morena-ruiva (reddish-tan)
99. Morena-trigueira (wheat colored)
100. Moreninha (toffeelike)
101. Mulatta (mixture of white and Negro)
102. Mulatinha (lighter-skinned white-Negro)
103. Negra (negro)
104. Negrota (Negro with a corpulent vody)
105. Plida (pale)
106. Paraba (like the color of marupa wood)
107. Parda (dark brown)
108. Parda-clara (lighter-skinned person of mixed race)
109. Polaca (Polish features; prostitute)
110. Pouco-clara (not very clear)
111. Pouco-morena (dusky)
112. Preta (black)
113. Pretinha (black of a lighter hue)
114. Puxa-para-branca (more like a white than a mulatta)
115. Quase-negra (almost Negro)
116. Queimada (burnt)
117. Queimada-de-praia (suntanned)
118. Queimada-de-sol (sunburned)
119. Regular (regular; nondescript)
120. Retinta ("layered" dark skin)
121. Rosa (roseate)
122. Rosada (high pink)
123. Rosa-queimada (burnished rose)
124. Roxa (purplish)
125. Ruiva (strawberry blond)
126. Russo (Russian; see also polaca)
127. Sapecada (burnished red)
128. Sarar (mulatta with reddish kinky hair, aquiline nose)
129. Saraba (or saraiva: like a white meringue)
130. Tostada (toasted)
131. Trigueira (wheat colored)
132. Turva (opaque)
133. Verde (greenish)
134. Vermelha (reddish)
:whoco:
Decimator
2010-03-02, 19:15
Caste system is abolished YOU DUMB NEGROID!!!
You're 3 centuries late :lol:
Of course someone like you who has uppitic attitudes will get lots of discrimination.
But a law abiding black dude like jonboyclem would face no problems.
EiCibaeño
2010-03-02, 19:20
Caste system is abolished YOU DUMB NEGROID!!!
You're 3 centuries late :lol:
Of course someone like you who has uppitic attitudes will get lots of discrimination.
But a law abiding black dude like jonboyclem would face no problems.
I don't think he's talking about the CASTE system:
Latin America is no different from India, for they also have a castle [sic] system.
Which is the castle [sic] system of Latin America.
...only enable furthered dynamics into the castle [sic] system which you believe in.
:lol::whoco:
I guess blacks describing each other as high yellow (heard this recently at the DMV) and redbone is a form of a castle system as well.
Decimator
2010-03-02, 19:22
Of course, this uppity nigger said he could pass as white in other thread :lol:
I bet he looks like this
http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/11222/15499.jpg
BlackEGO
2010-03-02, 19:25
blacks attacked in colombia: Racism in latin america
blacks in choco region of colombia hiding in church bombed: Racism, genocide and neglect in latin america against blacks.
One of the first regions settled by ancient africans for thosands of years before columbus is the choco region of colombia. In fact, in certain areas, such as san agustin, one will see monuments with negroid featured sculpture holding african shamanistic objects identical to those used by the ancient oni or priest-kings of nigeria (see the essay, "african civilizations of america."
choco was one of the primary areas of portugese and spanish slave-raiding before columbus' official trip to the americas. The slaves were africans who had been living on the coast of colombia for hundreds of years before the arrival of the europeans to the new world. In fact, some of the very first african slaves to reach north america were africans captured on the coast of south america by the spaniards and dutch, then sold to north america (the u.s.) (see the writings of peter matyr, balboa, ivan van sertima); see also the world-famous book, "a history of the african-olmecs, pub. By 1stbooks library, 2595 vernal pike, bloomington, indiana 47404 u.s.a
or the work, "susu economics: The history of pan-african trade, commerce, money and wealth," by 1stbooks library.)
slavery, racism, exploitation and genocide against latin-american blacks
slavery was abolished in brazil in the late 1800's. That was one of the last places to abandon slavery, just after some of the spanish-speaking nations. Yet, today in many latin american nations, the conditions are no different from the days of slavery. Blacks are stil being oppressed at a level that is beyond anything in existence except the oppression of black untouchables (dalits) in india.
Miscegenation as a tool of genocide
oppression against blacks in latin america follows a very different pattern from that which existed in the u.s. During the jim crow and civil rights era or even the slavery era. In the history of people of spanish and portugese origins, the african/blacks are not some strange, unknown race. Blacks ruled iberia for 800 years and contributed to the technological and cultural development of spain and europe. These blacks who came from an area stretching from nigeria to morocco were africans who had converted to islam and created an african version of islamic culture in parts of west africa and the maghreb. That culture used islamic religion but the african customs, family values, structure, architecture, military system and languages remained intact. In egypt, that was not the case, arabic customs and culture replaced the old khemitic (felahim and black egyptian/nubian traditions).
Thus, the blacks who entered spain in 711 a.d. Were islamized africans and we know them as black moors. The arabs invaded in abot 1000 a.d. And with them came in jews and others. When queen isabella and ferdinand defeated the moors, millions dispersed throughout europe, including the one million who went to southern france. Many returned to africa, others were enslaved and shipped to the americas. Many were eliminated.
So, people of spanish, italian, portugese, french and other southern european origins have been interacting with africans even before there was a large european (caucasian) population in southern europe.
Hence, the application of racial integration and miscegenation with the objective of blending out the black is part of the system of latin american/spanish genocidal racism called "the spanish experiment." it was applied in spain to destroy the cultural and racial identify of the blacks, arabs and jews in spain after the takeover by the spanish crown. This racist system is today applied in brazil and latin america, where the great mythology of "racial harmony" and "integration," is being promoted. Yet, blacks in latin america, who know better, do not accept this genocidal "utopia" that is being pushed by the latins in these nations.
The reality for blacks in latin america is what occurred in choco, colombia, where blacks are not even counted. With about 30 percent or more of colombia's population being african descent, it is a matter of time that blacks in that nation and the rest of latin america, where the black population is about 200 million, rise up in a struggle that is unlike any that the americas has known.
Black unification in the americas is very important
the organization of africans in the americas (o.a.a.), held a meeting in venezeula about a year ago. That organization includes representatives of all blacks living in the americas, from argentina to canada. The objective of the oaa is to improve the lives of blacks throughout the americas whose suffering in some latin american nations and elsewhere is becoming unbearable.
The newspaper "the final call," carried an article about the various forms of racism, neglect and genocide being carried out against blacks in latin america. This reality was crucial in pushing for the establishment of the organization of africans in the americas. The aim of that organization is the protection and the development of blacks throughout the americas. With the attacks on blacks in latin america, including the elimination of black children on the streets of nations like brazil and others, the organization has a task on its hands that will one day extend beyond mere poitical solutions.
The attack on the blacks of choco, colombia, a region with remnants of people of african slave origins as well as africans who lived in the region for thousands of years before european colonialism in the area, is really an attack on black people all around the world. What do blacks world-wide do, when racism and genocide worse than anything that happened in south africa is allowed to fester in latin america. What does the black world, particularly powerful black neighbors like black america and the black caribbean do when black people in latin america are being treated worse than animals? We unite and formulate a policy of black liberation and upliftment throughout the americas. We form alliances with black nations and other nations around the world and work to improve the lives of blacks on a worldwide scale. That is what the organization for africans in the americas is doing and it is an organization that should build its strengh among the black nations and communities in every nation of the americas. It is only through unity and strength that blacks will not be treated worse than animals in latin america. It is through close cultural, economic, military and physical unity, contact and unification of african religion, culture and values that blacks in the americas will move forward. Languages like spanish, portugese, english, french and dutch were the languages the slave-owning elite of europe imposed on blacks in the americas, but who are we as african people. We are niger-congo. Our linguistic pattern, which is still thriving in the accents as well as actual languages of some in cuba, brazil and elsewhere is the niger-congo pattern. We are africans of the negro race and the fact that we are black people is the reason why we are not respected and ran over by others. We who live throughout the americas should reject all colonial and slave ties and work to unify our people. Perhaps we should return to making yoruba a common language among the three hundred million people of african descent of the americas. We should return the religions of shango, mbanda, vadu, lucumi and the african metephysical and spiritualist religions as a tool of spiritual and cultural unity. Perhaps publishing companies like ebony, essence and others should work to create versions in spanish and portugese. Bet (black entertainment television) and other black owned media should expand in black latin america, where the vast majority of americas-africans reside. After all, where was the information about the massacre of black people in columbia on white latin television???? Where is anything about black culture on white latin television and media, which is even more racist and exclusive than american television and media, when it comes to blacks.
It is time for a change and that change will come when blacks who speak spanish, french, dutch, portugese, yoruba and arabic (in sudan) realize that we are black africans first and foremost and no matter which colonial language we speak, race is the issue, and in latin america as well as arabic-speaking north africa, or even west papua, its our blackness and african being that pushes people to attack us. Furthermore, it is the use of religion as an excuse to commit genocide, along with racist ideas that adds to the attack on blacks. It is time to come up with a religious, political, economic and military ideology and strategy based on black world nationalism that counters and defeats racist oppression of blacks in latin america, the americas and around the world.
Pianke nubiyang
:lol:
^ This fag is so subliminal. Its hilarious that you would speak of lack of knowledge, when you would actually post an article from an un-academic source; to actually precept like you are actually proving something. All you have done was prove how academically disadvantage you are. And whats even more hilarious you posted such strife from a websites that gets less 100 visitors a month. Dumb Dominican.
You've been banned so many times from so many anthro. forums that I can only guess you keep a long list of different usernames on the ready for your next banning which is long over due.:lol:
You're an inferiority complexed racist who has a blog named 'whitewatch':lol:
You've been caught using sockpuppet accounts so that you can agree with yourself:lol:
You're a male cheerleader with absolutely no knowledge on the topics you're obsessed with ( LatinAmericans ) and get severly schooled on a regular basis:lol:
You're a lame/cornball from some hick Florida town and you probably get smacked up if you ever come up to the tri-state. You are the stereotypical troll. And not even a good one.
EiCibaeño
2010-03-02, 19:30
You're an inferiority complexed racist who has a blog named 'whitewatch':lol:
Had to check it out. Apparently he's concerned with White people (actually I see a lot of "non or off Whites" in the crowd) getting naked and taking pictures.:lol:
BlackEGO
2010-03-02, 19:31
:lol:
You've been banned so many times from so many anthro. forums that I can only guess you keep a long list of different usernames on the ready for your next banning which is long over due.:lol:
You're an inferiority complexed racist who has a blog named 'whitewatch':lol:
You've been caught using sockpuppet accounts so that you can agree with yourself:lol:
You're a male cheerleader with absolutely no knowledge on the topics you're obsessed with ( LatinAmericans ) and get severly schooled on a regular basis:lol:
You're a lame/cornball from some hick Florida town and you probably get smacked up if you ever come up to the tri-state. You are the stereotypical troll. And not even a good one.
Quoting this as proof, so we you get banned for accusations, it won't come as a surprise. :evilgrin:
Anyway...
Race and Racism in Latin America: Dominican Republic
New laws aimed at curbing illegal migration in the Caribbean have left thousands of first generation Dominicans with Haitian roots unable to work, study or travel. Authorities there in charge of issuing documents no longer recognise them as citizens even though the Constitution does. Many say it is because of the colour of their skin. In the first part of our series on race and racism in Latin America, Al Jazeeras Lucia Newman reports from the Dominican Republic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zubBxJsqdlI
Decimator
2010-03-02, 19:32
Quoting this as proof, so we you get banned for accusations, it won't come as a surprise. :evilgrin:
Anyway...
Race and Racism in Latin America: Dominican Republic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zubBxJsqdlI
And you will get banned for sockpuppeting like you were banned 4 previous times :lol:
BlackEGO
2010-03-02, 19:33
I was appalled but fascinated by an article I read in last Sundays New York Times. It talked about the savage, racist treatment of Haitians on the part of the government entities (and the people) of the Dominican Republic. The treatment of immigrant laborers in the United States is appalling, but the condition of Haitian workers in the D.R. is downright sickening: Where there are two Haitians, kill one; where there are three Haitians, kill two, said leaders of the mobs that descended on the immigrants camps, the Haitians here recalled. But always let one go so that he can run back to his country and tell them what happened.
Immigrants who make the trek from Haiti to work run the risk of being lynched or murdered in some other fashion. The luckier ones survive, but are forced to live like animals with no legal protection whatsoever. Even Dominican-born Haitians, who are Dominican citizens, are denied the most basic rights and protections:
At the root of the problem, Ms. Altholz said, is that Haitian immigrants and their Dominican-born children live in a state of permanent illegality, unable to acquire documents that prove they have jobs or attend schools or even that they were born in this country.
In October, the Inter-American Court of Human Rights issued an opinion that the Dominican Republic was illegally denying birth certificates to babies born here to Haitian parents, and ordered the government to end the practice.
Particularly chilling was this quote from a Dominican activist priest:
By keeping Haitians in a limbo of illegality, the government can do whatever they want with them, said the Rev. Regino Martnez Bretn of the Jesuit-run agency Solidaridad Fronteriza, in Dajabn, a city on the Dominican border. The government can bring as many Haitians here as they want and then throw them away when they dont want them anymore.
Perhaps more frightening is the government dismissal of the charges:
In no way can the government of the Dominican Republic be characterized as one that does not respect basic rights.
Amazing how cruel men can be to their fellow men, and how much of this has to do with race. I hope that journalists and activists continue to expose this shameful situation.
More information about the plight of Haitian immigrants in the D.R.
Via / The New York Times
This is a shame. :evilgrin:
---------- Post added 2010-03-02 at 19:34 ----------
And you will get banned for sockpuppeting like you were banned 4 previous times :lol:
:evilgrin:
EiCibaeño
2010-03-02, 19:37
For some strange politically correct reason the "illegal" portion of "illegal immigrant" is always taken out when these articles are written. Haitians break the law by illegally crossing the border.
Decimator
2010-03-02, 19:38
What's your point posting these articles? That you are indeed inferior to Domincans and Colombians? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Uhhm, yeah we know, illegal immigrants get harsh treatment all over the world. Including the US. :whoco:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/14/africans.in.america/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
Black in America 2
By Eliott C. McLaughlin
CNN
ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Africa is not a country, and Africans generally do not live in trees or hunt game with spears. Nor do they all walk around in the nude among lions and zebras.
African immigrants to the United States say cartoonish caricatures and a Western media penchant for reporting on Africa's disease, hunger and war -- rather than the continent's successes -- trivialize their cultures. They complain they have trouble dispelling the stereotypes once they arrive in the States.
They concede, though, the myths run both ways and some say they were surprised to find their values more often aligned with those of white Americans than African-Americans.
If the Western media are doing Africans no favors, then the African media are also a disservice to African-Americans because it portrays them as criminals, some immigrants say.
Sandi Litia, 19, a Piney Woods graduate from Limulunga, Zambia, said she was initially scared of African-Americans because the African media show them "wearing clothes like gangsters and killing each other."
Nkosi concurred that African media "made it seem as if they were these aggressive people that did nothing constructive with their lives except occupy prison space."
In Athens, Ezeamuzie found his ideals at odds with those who shared his skin color at Clarke Central High School, his first stint in a public school.
On his first day, he donned khakis, a button-down dress shirt and nice leather shoes. He caught the African-Americans' attention upon stepping into the cafeteria, he said.
"They give me the look," he said. "Why is this guy dressed like the white folks, like the preppy guys?"
Ezeamuzie didn't understand why so few black students were in his advanced-placement classes. He didn't understand the de facto lunchroom segregation or the accusing glances he got for eating with white classmates. One classmate called him a traitor and asked, "Do you not like black people?" :lol:
Ezeamuzie recalled finding himself more confused by his experience with some African-Americans: Why were they so cliquish? Why did they mock students for being intelligent? Why were they homophobic and bent on using the n-word? Why did every conversation seem to involve drugs, girls or materialism?
BlackEGO
2010-03-02, 19:43
For some strange politically correct the "illegal" portion of "illegal immigrant" is always taken out when these articles are written. Haitians break the law by illegally crossing the border.
Just like Mexicans do, but yall want us to treat yall like humans, how do the Mexicans treat illegal immigrants from Guatemala? :evilgrin:
Decimator
2010-03-02, 19:44
Just like Mexicans do, but yall want us to treat yall like humans, how do the Mexicans treat illegal immigrants from Guatemala? :evilgrin:
Like any Mexican, when they learn to speak our accent. Don't you see my Guatemala flag?
EiCibaeño
2010-03-02, 19:45
Just like Mexicans do, but yall want us to treat yall like humans, how do the Mexicans treat illegal immigrants from Guatemala? :evilgrin:
I don't know what "yall talkin' bout", I'm not Mexican. Also, I don't care how Mexicans treat ILLEGALS.
BlackEGO
2010-03-02, 19:51
A Region in Denial: Racial Discrimination and Racism in Latin America
A Region in Denial: Racial Discrimination and Racism in Latin America
Ariel E. Dulitzky
Translated by David Sperling
Racism (and racial discrimination) is, to a certain extent, alive and well in every society, country and region of the world.1 It can appear in a variety of forms depending on the culture or context in which it occurs and the period of history during which it rears its head. Nonetheless, one common thread that seems to be woven throughout almost every culture, country and region is that people deny that racism even exists.
In this article, we attempt to delve into the different forms of denying the existence of racial discrimination in Latin America. The crux of our argument is that the people of our region are prone to conceal, twist and cover up the fact that racism and racial discrimination exists in our part of the world. This phenomenon of denial stands in the way of acknowledgement of the problem and, consequently, hampers effective measures that could be taken to eliminate and prevent racial discrimination. In order to identify the best strategies for combating racism, we must first take a close look at the different forms and manifestations of the phenomenon itself.
A kind of presumption of moral superiority vis-a-vis the United States of America is quite widespread throughout our region. Rarely does a conversation on this issue between Latin Americans take place without mentioning the serious incidence of racism and racial discrimination that exists in the land of our neighbors to the north, a claim that is altogether true. As the Brazilian scholar Antonio Sergio Guimares notes with nationalistic pride, we
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point out that racial segregation of the type that exists in the United States does not exist in our countries2. We pompously tout how we live in "racial democracies", "racial melting pots", "racial harmony", a complete mestizaje or mixing of races, or use other expressions to this effect.
Nothing epitomizes Latin Americans' view on this issue as well as the declaration of the presidents and heads of state of South America that was issued in 2000 at a meeting in Brasilia. This statement reads: "The Presidents [of South America] view with concern the resurgence of racism and of discriminatory manifestations and expressions in other parts of the world and state their commitment to preserve South America from the propagation of said phenomenon."3 Or as the Mexican government put it, "the Government of Mexico opposes any form of discrimination, institutionalized or otherwise, as well as the new forms of discrimination, xenophobia and other forms of intolerance that have emerged in several parts of the world, particularly in the developed countries."4
In short, these leaders concur that racism and racial discrimination are practices that take place in other regions and that Latin Americans possess a moral fortitude that cannot and does not allow any discrimination to go on in their countries. Moreover, this statement echoes the widespread sentiment of the region.
Our aim here is to encourage a debate on what we feel is a widespread and outright misrepresentation of Latin America as a region that is respectful of racial mobility and more tolerant toward racial identities than what it really is. These misguided impressions are merely a reflection of the absence of a deep, sincere and open political debate on the issue of race in our region. With regard to this point, the Mexican government is right when it states that "in Mexico, the indigenous issue is never approached as a problem of racial
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discrimination but as a matter related to the right to development and to their situation of economic and social marginalization (exclusion)."5 This same government would also state that racial discrimination "is not even a issue of national debate."6
But to point out that this phenomenon is not part of the national debate, or that it is not viewed as racial discrimination, by no means erases or negates the fact that racism and racial discrimination does exist and that the countries of the region refuse to admit it and combat it.
In reality, racial discrimination and racism, like the failure to recognize these phenomena and the absence of a debate on these issues in Latin America, is simply part and parcel of what could be dubbed the democratic deficit that we are experiencing in the region. Equality, as it relates to race, gender, ethnicity, or anything else, is still far from being viewed in the region as an essential and basic requirement for democracy. Equality cannot exist without democracy; nor can democracy exist without equality. Hence, the struggle to solidify democracy is a fundamental step in the struggle against racism and racial discrimination.7
This article is partly based on a study conducted by Stanley Cohen, which looked at different governments' responses to reports denouncing violations of human rights. In this study, three different types of denial are posited: literal denial (nothing has happened); interpretive denial (what is happening is actually something else); and justificatory denial (what's happening is justified).8 Sometimes these types of denial appear in sequence; when one type is struck down, it is replaced by another type. For example, literal denial may prove ineffective because the facts may simply bear out that the black population is indeed more
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disadvantaged than the white population. Therefore, strategy shifts towards use of another type of denial such as a legalistic reinterpretation or a political justification.9
Before delving into the subject at hand, we would first like to make a point of clarification. This article shall focus primarily on the plight of the black or Afro-Latin American population, and very little discussion shall be put forth on racial discrimination against indigenous peoples or other ethnic groups. It is by no means our intent to ignore or fail to recognize that indigenous peoples are victims of racial discrimination as well. We have chosen to center our analysis on this particular social group, for the most part, because blacks have been the most low-visibility victims of racial discrimination in Latin American society today.
A Look at the Current Situation in the Region
We must first make sure that readers understand what we mean by racism or racial discrimination. Even though it is true that forms, types or definitions of "racism" or "racial discrimination" may vary widely, for the purposes of this article, we shall use the definition provided by Article 1 (1) of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (referred to hereinafter as the "Convention against Racism" or the "Convention"):
"In this Convention the expression *racial discrimination+ shall denote any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on motives of race, color, lineage or national or ethnic origin whose purpose or result it is to nullify or diminish the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, in equal conditions, of human rights and
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fundamental liberties in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other sphere of public life."
The true state of affairs in Latin American societies, nonetheless, stands in stark contrast with the objectives pursued by the International Convention. Although very few statistics are available on the phenomenon, the small amount of data we have at our disposal shows how racial discrimination permeates each and every realm of life in our region: from the social to the political, education10, labor11, cultural and public health sectors.12 In countries like Colombia, the Afro-Colombian population is disproportionately a victim of political violence.13 In other countries of Latin America, access to land has eluded the descendents of African peoples.14 In many countries of the region, judicial15 and police16 systems provide less protection to blacks and, at the same time, punish these people more severely.
For example, a recent ECLA (U.N. Economic Council for Latin America) study showed that Afro-Latin Americans have little or no job security, which is proof of racial segregation throughout the region. Racial discrimination in the labor market stems from inequities in the education sector. Consequently, whites have more of a chance of successfully climbing the corporate ladder so to speak, or making it into positions of power or upper management. Distribution of income in the region is revealed to be even more unfair when it is viewed by ethno-racial origin of the inhabitants. The black population has a harder time gaining access to, making progress in, not falling behind and staying in school, and usually attends poor quality schools.17 5
The Government of Colombia, one of the few governments which at least has clearly acknowledged, in written documents, the problem of discrimination, has described the plight of the Afro-Colombian population in the following terms:
They are among the group of Colombians with the highest indices of unmet needsYwith precarious health conditionsYsanitation conditionsYare of the most deficient in the entire nationYcoverage of education services is poorYHousing in Afro-Colombian communities, in addition to [having] poor coverage of public utilities, show problems in the legalization of property and lots, a high rate of overcrowding and poor qualityYIt is estimated that the per capita income of [the members of] these communities is $500 per year, less than one third of the national averageYAfro-Colombian women are facing conditions of poverty, high unemployment rates and low quality jobs, deficient health care and high incidence of domestic violenceYAfro-Colombian teens do not have optimal guarantees and opportunities to gain access to higher or vocational education, good jobs and to development in keeping with their world vision and with their socio-cultural realityYthe territorial entities where the Afro-Colombian population create settlements are characterized by their poor ability to govern, plan and manage.18
This scenario, which is identical to the situation in several countries of Latin America, makes it all the more necessary to take a closer and more honest look at our region in order to be able to adopt the necessary measures to overcome this crisis. Even so, there are still strong currents of thought in political, academic and social circles which deny that racial discrimination even exists or try to explain away these differences as a function of
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other variables, rather than as a function of race or ethnic origin. In the following section we shall look closely at some of these variables.
"There is No Racism or Racial Discrimination": Literal Denial
Literal denial is simply to say, "nothing has happened" or "nothing is happening". What is of concern to us here is that this type of denial is synonymous with saying that there has never been any racial discrimination or racism in the past nor is there any at the present time. Over the past few years, different governments of Latin America have made statements to the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination claiming, among other things, that "racial prejudice"19 does not exist, "in our country problems of discrimination do not exist ",20 "racial discrimination does not exist",21 "today racial problems practicallyY do not exist any longer",22 "this phenomenon does not appear in our country"23or "in societyY at the present time racial prejudices, are practically negligibleY"24
This type of discourse is not only typical of governments that have a well-known history of being insensitive to racial issues, but also of governments that have a track record of being committed, at least rhetorically so, to racial equality. Paradoxically, these so-called 'racially sensitive' governments are often the ones who most categorically deny the existence of the problem. It would not be entirely farfetched to hear the following argument brandished in discussing the issue with a Latin American: "Our Government would never allow something like that to happen, and therefore it could not have ever happened."
A pseudo sophisticated way of denying that racial discrimination exists is to argue that it could not have taken place because discrimination is illegal in the countries of the region and the governments have even ratified every appropriate international instrument related to the subject. This legalistic version of denial of racial discrimination is based on
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the following specious claim: "Since racial discrimination is prohibited by law, our government would never allow it and, therefore, it could not have ever occurred."25
The most syllogistic form of literal denial is the widespread myth that the region boasts a racial democracy because the concept of race has been officially rejected by government institutions. This type of denial has many variations but essentially amounts to saying, if races do not officially exist, then racism cannot exist either. Nevertheless, erasing the concept of race from laws and other official documents, by no means, has led to the end of race as a key factor in determining how the benefits of society are distributed, nor does it negate the fact that Latin American society is predicated upon a clearly pyramidal structure with blacks and indigenous people at the bottom and whites at the top.
"What goes on in Latin America is Not Racism or Racial Discrimination but Something Else": Interpretive Denial
At this point in time, it is hard, if not ludicrous, to categorically deny that racial discrimination and racism exist in Latin America. This is because groups that have been discriminated against have become more visible and have begun to engage in activism to address their plight. Additionally, a limited, but growing number of studies and statistics, which bear out that racism and racial discrimination still exist in Latin America, are now available. Consequently, people resort to slightly more sophisticated explanations. Instead of denying that economic and social indicators show a wide gap between races, it is now more common to hear reasons other than racism to account for the disparities between
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blacks, indigenous peoples and whites. These disparities, attitudes and prejudices are framed in far less pejorative or stigmatizing theoretical terms than racism or racial discrimination.
The true story of the racial issue in Latin America is doctored in many different ways. In the following section, we shall identify some of the ways in which the facts are distorted such that they do not fit the definition of racism or racial discrimination.
a. Euphemisms
One of the most common ways of putting a spin on the facts is by using euphemistic expressions to mask the phenomenon, confer a measure of respectability on the problem, or paint a picture of neutrality in the face of discriminatory practices. In order to negate or cloud the racist side of certain social conduct or government policies, a variety of terms are used such as "ethnic minority"26, "restrictions on immigration"27, "customer screening or selection" (seleccin de clientes)28, "reservation of rights to refuse admission" (reserva de admisin)29, "proper attire" (buena presencia)30.
Probably the most common euphemism used in Latin America is to deny that racial discrimination exists and to attribute the differences between races to poverty. The syllogism goes something like this: "people don't discriminate against blacks or indigenous people because they are black or indigenous, but because they are poor."
The government of Haiti, for example, cited economic instead of racial reasons for the disparities between whites and other groups, stating that "even though it is true that in the private sphere prejudices related to color are sometimes expressed, in reality its origin lies in the social inequities that exist in Haitian society." 31 Similarly, the government of Peru claimed that "today practically every Peruvian is of mixed blood and a racial problem no
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longer not exists. Instead, there exists a problem of economic underdevelopment in certain sectors of the population."32 Mexico has developed the most explicit arguments on this point. The indigenous issue is not "a problem of racial discrimination;" In Mexico, rather than "the phenomenon of racial discrimination", what is going on are "some forms of discrimination derived from the socioeconomic reality."33
The myth of a racial democracy, which is defined as harmony between ethnic and racial groups and, therefore, the absence of racial discrimination, would lead people to believe that any display of racism and discrimination that may occur is usually the result of social and economic rather than racial prejudices. Once again we cite the official version of the Mexican government: "some forms of discrimination are a result of socioeconomic differences more than a distinction between ethnic groups, and they [the differences] have been addressed by means of a variety of government social development programs targeted toward the most vulnerable groups."34 This way of thinking is so widespread and has endured for so long throughout Latin America that, regardless of a persons race, the population for the most part is unwilling to explain current social disparities between racial groups in terms of racial inequities. On the other hand, our societies quite readily accept explanations based on economic disparities.35
These interpretations are marred by faulty logic. They fail to explain why in our region even though not all people of color are poor, almost all poor people are colored.36 One government did not have any problem acknowledging that "There is a clear correlation between proportion of the indigenous population and poverty and marginalization indices.37 Secondly, several statistical studies on economic disparities in Latin America have shown
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that even when all possible variables are factored out of the equation, including indicators of poverty, one variable, which can only be attributed to a person's race, always carries over.38 Moreover, according to this specious argument, it would be lawful to discriminate against poor people. As far as we are aware, there is no provision of human rights law currently on the books that legitimizes unequal treatment of persons based on social class or economic status.39
Justification of class-based over race-based discrimination, once again, is simply the corollary to the assumption that we live in racial democracies in Latin America. It is also the corollary to the ideological basis for that assumption, which is that societies in the region are monolithically mestizo or mixed-raced and, therefore, allegedly free of prejudice and discrimination. If Latin America indeed lives in racial harmony and there is really only one race in our societies (the mestizo race), then it would follow that any disparities between population groups could never be explained by a person's race, but rather would have to be explained as a function of poverty, social status, or education.
b. Legalism:
Most interpretive denials of racism are laced with some sort of legalistic or diplomatic language to negate the existence of discriminatory practices. Many different legal defenses have been used to counter charges of racial discrimination. To take stock of every single one would far exceed the scope of this article, so in this section we offer only a few examples.
One form of legalistic argument is to maintain that racial discrimination is non-existent in Latin America because the laws in the countries of the region do not establish rules of
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segregation or apartheid as is the case in other parts of the world. The claim is thus put forth that "never in historyYhas any legal text been in effect that establishes racial discrimination even in a veiled way."40 The implication of this statement is that discrimination can only exist when it is established by law, and not when sectors of the population are discriminated against by deed or when laws are applied or enforced in a discriminatory way.
Nevertheless, international conventions require our countries to do much more than simply erase discriminatory laws from the books. International treaties call for the adoption of specific laws in support of each particular provision of these conventions, egalitarian and non discriminatory enforcement of laws and conventions and, particularly, the prevention, punishment and elimination of discrimination in all of its forms, whether by law or by deed. The CERD (Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination), therefore, has expressly mentioned the obligation of States to repeal any law or practice whose effect it is to create or perpetuate racial discrimination.41
The Convention against Racial Discrimination requires nations to adopt comprehensive legislation to prevent, eliminate, punish and remedy racial discrimination. Such legislation does not exist at the present time in Latin American countries, as the CERD has been pointing out over the past two years.42 Instead, the respective constitutions contain basic provisions which prohibit racial discrimination; yet the appropriate legislative structures to fully enforce those provisions are not in place.43 Specifically, the Convention requires enactment of certain criminal laws, which prohibit and adequately penalize any act of racial discrimination that may be committed by individuals, organizations, public authorities or institutions. To date, in many countries of the Americas, such laws yet to be
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passed.44 In other countries, even though legal provisions designed to eliminate unequal treatment based on racial factors may have already been enacted, express provisions making it unlawful to discriminate on the basis of national or ethnic origin have not been written into the laws.45 Such specificity is necessary because these types of discrimination are the most prevalent forms of intolerance and bigotry in many nations of the region. In many countries in Latin America, there are no laws preventing racial discrimination in the private sector, despite the fact that section 'd', paragraph 1 of Article 2 of the Convention provides that States Parties shall prohibit any racial discrimination practiced not only by public authorities or institutions, but also by private "groups or organizations."46 Lastly, in many of our countries, legislation currently in force has proven to be inadequate, either because the ban on discrimination does not go hand in hand with the appropriate punishments,47 or because punishments provided for by law are so lenient that they do not serve as an effective means to prevent, prohibit and eradicate all practices of racial segregation.48
Another way people attempt to prove that racial discrimination does not exist in the region is to point to the fact that Latin American courts receive very few complaints of racial discrimination. As the government of Mexico stated, the absence of racial discrimination "can be corroborated by the absence of both domestic and international complaints in the subject matter"49 --the logic being that an absence of court convictions for racial discrimination means that the phenomenon is non existent. Nevertheless, this argument ignores important questions such as whether victims of racism are aware of the legal recourses available to them for their defense; whether laws are effective in combating racial discrimination; or whether the courts properly apply anti-discrimination laws. The low number of complaints may very well be attributable to "unawareness of existing legal
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remedies available for cases of racial discrimination, and to the public in general perhaps not being very aware of the protection against racial discrimination provided for in the Convention."50 The small amount of complaints and, consequently, convictions, may also be due to a lack of confidence in law enforcement and judicial authorities.51 Lastly, the low incidence of racial discrimination court cases may also stem from the fact that judicial or police officers do not rate this type of behavior as a display of racism or discrimination.52
The government of Venezuela used a variation of the following syllogism: because no legislation making racial discrimination a crime has been enacted, this amounts to proof of the absence of any racial discrimination, by stating , "even though it is true that very few laws are in force against racial discrimination and any defense or support (apologa) that may foment it, we can say that there is no practical need to legislate on this subject, given that problems of discrimination or defense thereof do not exist in our country." The Venezuelan government went on to say, "[such a] situation, fortunately unknown in our milieu, would be different if there were violent clashes between ethnic groups or if certain persons were alienated or left out on the basis of physical characteristics, since in explosive situations such as these [situations] would be, the Parliament, which cannot turn its back on the social reality, would issue laws on this subject. It has not done so because there has not been a need for it."53
The extreme variation of this strategy is to respond to allegations of racism and racial discrimination by trying to offer as proof that it is not possible for the phenomenon to exist in the country because such practices are prohibited in the domestic bodies of law. Governments usually counter these allegations by rattling off a long list of domestic laws,
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international treaties they have ratified, and a host of legal mechanisms that are in place to punish those responsible for discrimination and racism.
C. Denial of Responsibility
Many times governments deny any type of state responsibility for racism and racial discrimination, although they acknowledge that such acts may indeed take place.
The argument is that even though some acts of racism and racial discrimination have occurred, such acts are events that cannot be attributed to the government, are out of its control, and are the product of deeply rooted social practices or private actors. The Dominican government, for example, has only accepted that "there exists the possibility that individually, someone in the country, with the utmost discretion supports racial discrimination."54 Or as the government of Haiti has stated, in the event that there are incidents of racial discrimination, these "are in no case the work of the State."55
In any case, under the International Convention against Racial Discrimination, these arguments are not a valid justification. Every State must guarantee effective application of the Convention. "Inasmuch as the practices of private institutions influence the exercise of rights or the availability of opportunities, the State Party must ensure that the result of these practices does not have as a purpose or effect to create or perpetuate racial discrimination."56
d. Just Isolated Incidents
One of the most common ways in which governments respond to charges of racism or racial discrimination is, on the one hand, to accept that a specific act has indeed taken place, but on
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the other hand, deny that such acts are systematic, routine or representative of a pattern of similar behavior.
"Such acts arise in an isolated way and are the result of the motivation of individuals or very small groups."57 Incidents of racial discrimination would occur only "episodically and selectively".58 "In present day societyYracial prejudices are practically negligible and are manifested in the most intimate spheres of life."59
What occurred was an "isolated incident"; such events never occurred in the past, and since they have not happened again, it is unfair to brand our government as racist on the basis of this single event.
Justificatory Denial
Justificatory denial has countless variations. Generally speaking, these variations either involve trying to justify that racism does not exist or go to the other extreme and attempt to show that racism or racial discrimination is justifiable in some hypothetical situations. Some of these denials are offered in good faith, but others are simply excuses, fabrications, attempts at neutralizing allegations, ideological defenses, etc.
Denying that the Victims are Victims of Racism: Camouflaging the Phenomenon
In this section, we would like to focus on one particular variation of the phenomenon, which is one of the most pernicious forms of denial of the existence of racism and racial discrimination in Latin America. We are referring to pinning the blame on the victims for their situation or making the victims of racism and racial discrimination invisible.
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Perhaps the most extreme form of this type of denial of racism and racial discrimination is to say that sectors of the population, and sometimes even a vast majority thereof, are simply not victims of racism. A popular Argentine saying seems to aptly encapsulate this extreme version of denial: "We Argentines are not racist because we don't have any blacks." The collective conscience in that country of the Southern Cone, however, refuses to ask key questions such as why today there is no black population in Argentina while, in 1850, 30% of Buenos Aires' population was black.60
Governments throughout Latin America have engaged in a campaign to officially do away with any racial identification by claiming that the population is a mixed race (mestizaje). This view is evident, for example, in the way censuses are conducted in the countries of the region. The census of almost every country in Latin America does not include any question on racial identity.61 The exceptions are Brazil and a few other countries, which are half-heartedly beginning to inquire into these distinctions.62 This practice only serves to camouflage a highly representative sector of Latin American populations. The void of official statistics on the true make up of the population has a most serious consequence: it prevents the true plight of sectors that are victims of discrimination from being known. This practice also makes it impossible to implement public policies to overcome these inequities.
This drastic negation of any racial distinctions within the population makes it impossible to question the prevailing norm in Latin America of a person's color being a decisive factor in determining chances and opportunities to succeed in society. In Latin America, the whiter you are, the better and greater your chances are; while, the darker you are, the lesser and worse your chances are. The chromatic social scale is blatant throughout Latin America and social surveys have begun to corroborate these disparities.63 17
While it is true that racial categories in Latin America differ from those of other parts of the world in that they are not exclusively of a dual nature, i.e. black and white;64 this, however, by no means does away with the disparities between races, nor with the fact that the darker the skin, the fewer the economic, cultural, educational, employment and social opportunities. We could say that a "strong pigmentocracy" prevails throughout Latin America, in which a negative value is attached to darker skin color thus relegating races other than the white race to the lower echelons of society.65
The idea that we are all mestizos,66 we are all caf au lait-colored, we all have some indigenous or black blood in us, is an obstacle to identifying and developing the concept of specific racial groups. This myth is used to prevent non-whites from developing their own identity and demands; however, it is not used to attain a higher degree of equality and social integration for these sectors of the population. The official notion of a mixed race (mestizaje)67 camouflages diversity, denies non whites the right to dissent, while making conditions ripe for excluding anyone who falls outside the "norm" of mestizo or mixed.68
Furthermore, the concept of a mixed race or mestizaje also undermines or weakens the political and social struggle against racial discrimination. If we are all mestizos, then there are no racial distinctions and mere discussion of the racial issue is therefore viewed by many as a foreign or non-regional issue. By raising such matters in Latin America, the thinking goes, people are only trying to bring problems into the region that belong to other countries.
Moreover, the mixed race theory covers up the official racist policy of whitening or infusing white blood into society, which has been attempted in almost every single country of Latin America. Many Latin American countries made a concerted effort to bring down
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the number of blacks and indigenous people in the population and, as a last resort, camouflage these racial groups by encouraging miscegenation or marriage between non-whites and whites to make the population whiter. For example, almost every country in the region has developed at one time or another immigration policies that restrict or deny entry to black people while strongly promoting European immigration.69
The mixed race claim not only serves to camouflage or make the black or indigenous population invisible, but is also used as proof that racism does not exist. Mexico has explained the situation in the following way:
Additionally, our historical experience and the make up of the Mexican population, 90% mestizo (mixed race), a product of the mix between Spaniards and indigenous people; gives rise to an indisputable fact, that is that the denial of either [one of these] origin[s] does not take place in our country, that is why there has been no need to legislate in this regard, unlike what goes on in other countries where the phenomenon of mestizaje did not occur.70
Mestizaje is also used as proof of harmony between different racial and ethnic groups. In other words, if there are mestizos (mixed race people in Latin American societies), it is because there are mixed marriages between whites and blacks or indigenous people. As the government of Cuba stated, the fact that there are a high number of racially mixed families on the island is a sign of how limited racial prejudice is.71 Nonetheless, not even the magical force of mestizaje has managed to completely do away with racial prejudice when such marriages take place. Furthermore, many people in Latin America try to keep mixed marriages from ever taking place in their families.
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The mixed raced/mixed marriage theory, however, is unable to conceal the fact that the Latin American population in general and, particularly, the black/indigenous population in the region, feel that whitening your lineage is the only route to improving your standing on the social scale. This view is at the root of racism in Latin America; this attitude denies the black or indigenous presence and identity and stresses the "white" side of the mixed race as the essential ingredient to obtain better social, employment, and education opportunities in a white-dominated world.72 In reality, more than a democratizing force behind society, the mixing of races or mestizaje constitutes, for the most part, one of the most masterful forms of racism in Latin America. In order to climb the social ladder, one must be as white as possible and the blending of races is the way to attain it.
In Latin America, as has been correctly pointed out, "the white/mestizo [person] forswears or abjures his or her indigenous [and we add black] part and must constantly demonstrate his or her 'superiority', even when these displays only illustrate that it is impossible for mestizos to accept their white and Indian humanity" [or the black side of their humanity, we add once again].73
Even though Latin American governments have officially denied or done away with the different racial identities that exist throughout the region, such an action has not done away with informal racial designations, which in fact have a decisive effect on the social structure in Latin America. Even at the risk of making a sweeping generalization, we feel compelled to call attention to a common fact that has persisted throughout Latin America independently of the social, political, historical and cultural peculiarities of the different countries: there is discrimination based on skin color.74 20
Another way of saying that non-whites are not victims of racism in Latin America is to reduce their sphere of action in society. Accordingly, people in Latin America have a very clear view that it is socially acceptable for blacks to only "excel in the world of sports, music and dance"75 or that "blacks are only good at soccer or, if you're black, you must be a soccer player.76 In keeping with this same line of thinking, the victims of racism are excluded from other sectors, for example, from the media, in order to "project the image of a racially white country."77 For example, the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination has stated its "concern for the information that the media provide regarding minority communities, including the consistent popularity of television programs in which stereotypes based on race or ethnic origin are promoted. The Committee states that those stereotypes contribute to reinforcing the cycle of violence and marginalization that has already had serious repercussions on the rights of traditionally disadvantaged communities in Colombia."78 The labor market is another place where there is a clear demarcation of the types of jobs that non-whites may gain access to or not. Non white populations in Latin America usually have access to the lowest level and poorest paid jobs.79
The last form of this type of denial involves turning the story around to pin the blame on the victims. This takes place when a black or indigenous person denounces racially discriminatory practices. Many times, the person is branded a victim of unfounded complexes, without even the slightest consideration that he or she may be instead the victim of racial discrimination.
b. Convenient Comparisons
One of the most common ways of attempting to justify the racial situation in Latin America is to compare the region to other countries of the world. Four countries, South
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Africa, the United States, Rwanda or Bosnia, are old standbys that are often used for such comparisons. With regard to each instance, respectively, Latin Americans state, we never had apartheid in our region; nor was there ever any legalized racial segregation;80 and we never had racially motivated, violent armed conflicts. 81
In the report submitted by a government to the CERD, the only time the words xenophobia, racism or racial discrimination are mentioned, is to refer to the plight of nationals from that country living in the United States.82 Discrimination always takes place on the other side of the borders.
The intellectual and political elite, in many ways, has made the United States the paragon of racial hatred against which all other societies must be measured. The specious claim goes something like this: since the segregationist laws and practices of the country to the north have not been applied in Latin America, there is no need to look at other forms of racial exclusion and alienation.
None of the above-mentioned comparisons are untrue and this ought to be a source of pride for Latin Americans. However, the people of the region, or anyone else for that matter, should not read anything more into these facts than what they say on the face of things. It is true that there has been no apartheid regimen in the region; it is true that no racist legislation has ever existed in the region either; and it is also true that no Latin American government has implemented policies of ethnic cleansing.83 Nonetheless, these are not the only manifestations of racism and racial discrimination. There is a myriad of phenomena that can be found throughout Latin America and fits the definition of racial discrimination and racism.
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Conclusion: Is there a future without a past?
A racist way of thinking has endured throughout our region over the years. Today it is not even entirely farfetched to hear out of the mouths of Latin Americans such statements as: "The only solution for Guatemala is to improve the race, bring in Arian studs to improve it. I had a German administrator on my farm for many years and for every Indian girl he got pregnant, I'd pay him an extra 50 dollars."84
The existence of racial discrimination and racism, however, continues to be denied or ignored by Latin American societies and governments alike. Very few studies have been conducted on the topic to date, very few statistics have been gathered, and no public debate on the issue is taking place. This grim picture constitutes a roadblock to the development of public policies to combat racial discrimination and racism on the national, regional and international levels.
In recent years, the advent of democratically elected governments in the majority of the countries of Latin America has paved the way for the improvement of the human rights situation of the region in many ways. Most notably, most countries have no policies of serious State-planned violations. Nevertheless, our democracies still have not been successful at fulfilling their implicit promise and the basic tenet of ensuring full, formal and effective equality for all segments of society. Consequently, the consolidation of democracy is looming over us both as an unavoidable challenge in Latin America and as the path we must follow in order to combat racism and racial discrimination effectively.
The World Conference against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Forms of Intolerance,(WCAR) which was convened by the United Nations in 2001,
23
may yet spur on the inhabitants of the region to deal with an issue that has long been consigned to oblivion.
A regional meeting in preparation for the WCAR was held for the Americas in Santiago, Chile, from December 3 to December 7, 2000. Two parallel meetings were organized: the governmental conference, called the Americas Preparatory Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Forms of Intolerance (Regional PrepCom) and the parallel NGO Forum, titled the Conference of Citizens against Racism, Xenophobia, Intolerance and Discrimination (Citizens Conference).
There were several positive outcomes from these meetings. The massive presence of civil society organizations should be highlighted, on the civil society side. More than 1,700 people participated. There is still some hope that this significant mobilization could give birth to a strong regional movement to fight racism. The Santiago meetings also contributed to enhancing the dialogue among Afro-descendants throughout the region, bringing international attention to the challenges that they face. The Chile meetings represented a unique, and probably the first, opportunity for Afro-Latin Americans to appear as significant actors functioning in regional groups on the international level. Participating with a burgeoning collective identity that demonstrated enormous potential for bringing the fight against racism, they successfully heightened both their own visibility and that of the problems they face throughout the entire hemisphere.
On the governmental side, and at least in the declaratory documents, the Regional PrepCom allowed decisive actions to be taken to fight racial discrimination in the region. For the first time, all the governments of the Americas accepted that racial discrimination
24
exists throughout the region and that it should be strongly combated. Some themes, which appeared in the Regional PrepComs Final Declaration, deserve mention as they point to important changes in the official position of many States in the region highlighted through this article. The Final Declaration includes a clear recognition that the history of the hemisphere has often been characterized by racism and racial discrimination, and that these phenomena persist in the region (preamble). Moreover the Governments of the region stated that the denial of the existence of racism and racial discrimination on the part of States and societies directly or indirectly contributes to their perpetuation (para. 2). The documents also included a positive call for governments to include ethnic or racial criteria in order to give visibility to diverse sectors of the population (para. 18).
It is important to note that the Presidents and Head of State of the 34 countries of the Hemisphere expressly endorsed this document. Similarly , the Inter-American Democratic Charter, adopted by the OAS General Assembly in Lima, Peru on September 11, 2001, in its Article 9, established that The elimination of all forms of discrimination, especially gender, ethnic and race discrimination, as well as diverse forms of intolerance, the promotion and protection of human rights of indigenous peoples and migrants, and respect for ethnic, cultural and religious diversity in the Americas contribute to strengthening democracy and citizen participation.
The WCAR was held shortly after the Regional Prep-Com, during the first week of September 2001, in Durban, South Africa. While the objective of the WCAR was to address issues of discrimination and intolerance around the world and formulate recommendations and action-oriented measures to combat these evils in all their forms, most of the discussions focused on two issues: the conflict in the Middle East and the question of reparations. 25
Notwithstanding the diplomatic hurdles, the event allowed Afro-Latin Americans to continue raising the level of public awareness on a number of important issues,thus imitating their Chilean success. For Latin America, the most important development is that the governments of the region did not retract from their prior recognition that the region faces important racial discrimination issues.
The mobilization of civil society groups was quite significant, resulting in a number of positive, tangible developments. Beyond highlighting the problems Afro Latinos confront, the Conference also acted as a welcome catalyst to put in motion the long overdue debate on how to effectively address racial inequality. The progress here lies in the discussion itself. Perhaps, for the first time in Latin America, governments and civil society, began to debate racial inequality. At last, the debate over race seemed to have moved beyond the discrete circles of academics and activists to find an incipient place in the regions agenda. As an example, the OAS decided to start discussions on the adoption of an Inter-American Convention against Racism and any other form of Discrimination and Intolerance. For a region that as the first part of this article suggests denies the existence of racism and racial discrimination, this is an important development.
There have been also, some promising institutional developments in the last couple of years in terms of creating public institutions charged specifically with addressing allegations of discrimination or helping in the definition and implementation of public policies for the prevention and combat of racial discrimination. Some examples of this trend are the creation of the National Institute against Discrimination, Xenophobia and Racism in Argentina85, the National Council for the Prevention of Discrimination in Mexico86, the Presidential Commission against Racism and Discrimination against Indigenous People in Guatemala87 26
and the Special Secretary on Policies for the Promotion of Racial Equality in Brazil88. The creation of new institutions, in countries that traditionally did not officially address the problems of exclusion and marginalization in terms of discrimination could signal a departure from some of the positions highlighted earlier in this article.
Perhaps the most important development in the last years is that the Brazilian government has begun imposing racial quotas for government jobs, contracts89 and university admissions90. As expected, these measures have unleashed an acrimonious debate in a country that traditionally prides itself on being a "racial democracy." There is also a Racial Equality Statute pending now before Congress that would make racial quotas obligatory at all levels of government and require them even in casting television programs and commercials. The debate is broad and very complex, covering questions such as the definition of who is black, a puzzling process in a country where more than 300 terms are used to designate skin color. It has also prompted a discussion on national identity where critics of the measures say the government is importing a solution from the United States, a country in which racial definitions and relations are very different91. Others say that racial quotas are not needed since racism is not a feature of Brazilian society and conditions for blacks will improve as poverty is gradually eliminated. The issue probably will be partially settled in the near future when the Brazilian Federal Superior Tribunal rules on the constitutionality of racial quotas being challenged by white applicants to federal universities. The decision could have an impact in Brazil and also in the rest of Latin America comparable to that of Brown v. Board of Education in the United States92.
In order to capitalize on the momentum created by the WCAR it is indispensable to keep race and racial inequality in the forefront of Latin America political and legal debate.
27
28
This is not an easy task and the region faces many challenges. While the Latin American governments took a crucial first step by formally acknowledging at the international level the existence of racial discrimination this is just the beginning rather the end of the struggle. Despite some of the positive changes that have taken place in the last two years, it remains to be seen whether Governments will start laying the groundwork for formulation of effective public policies, including legal reforms needed to address racial disparities. There are some signs that some officials in some Latin American governments are slowly incorporating diplomatic recognition of the existence of racism and racial discrimination, into their official domestic discourse. But throughout the region, whether Latin American governments will turn their rhetoric into action remains to be seen.
1 The views expressed in this article are solely those of the authors and do not reflect the official position of the Organization of American States nor the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights.. I wish to express my gratitude to Flavia Modell for her support in researching an earlier version of this article. I would also like to thank James Early and Ruthanne Deutsch for their input in a previous version of this article.
2 Antonio Sergio Alfredo Guimaraes, Racismo e Anti-Racismo no Brasil (1999), pg. 37. See also Antonio Segio Alfredo GuimaraesThe Misadventures of Nonracialism in Brazil, in Beyond Racism, ed. By Charles V. Hamilton, Lynn Huntley, Neville Alexander, Antonio Sergio Guimaraes and Wilmot James.
3 Meeting of the Presidents of South America, Communiqu of Brasil, September 1, 2000, &28.
4 10th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1994: Mexico. 30/03/95. CERD/C/260/Add. 1. paragraph 155.
5 10th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1994: Mexico. 30/03/95. CERD/C/260/Add.1. paragraph 161
6 10th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1994: Mexico. 30/03/95. CERD/C/260/Add. 1. paragraph 157. Nevertheless, there are authors who have begun to conduct studies on the situation of the indigenous peoples from a racial perspective. See Olivia Gall, Racism, Interethnic War and Peace in Chiapas, presented at the XXI Congress of the Latin American Studies Association (LASA), 1998 and Olivia Gall, Mestizaje-Indigenismo and Racism in the Mexican State's Ideology of National Integration, presented at the XXIII Congress of the Latin American Studies Association (LASA), 2000.
7 See Romero Jorge Rodrguez, La Discriminacin Racial en la Epoca de la Globalizacin Econmica, Mundo Afro, September, 2000, pg. 8.
8 Stanley Cohen, Government Responses to Human Rights Reports: Claims, Denials and Counterclaims, Human Rights Quarterly 18:3 (1996), p. 522. The method used in this study is somewhat limited, mainly because it is
29
of a general nature and, therefore, does not cover specific aspects of racism or racial discrimination. The article is not meant to be a complete study on the significance of race in Latin America, on the different manifestations of racial discrimination in the Hemisphere, nor on all of the ways that the existence of racism is denied. We shall use the paper as a preliminary theoretical framework to draw out debate on the persistence of racism in our region.
9 Idem, p. 522
10 For example, in Uruguay, black people have a lower level of education and a higher school dropout rate. 12th, 13th and 14th Consolidated Report of Uruguay to the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, & 203 et seq.
11 In Brazil, the black population shows a higher level of unemployment than the white population, earns at least 40% less salary, and holds the lowest grade and most unstable jobs on the labor market which also provide the least benefits. See Inter-American Trade Union Institute for Racial Equality, Map of the Black Population in the Brazilian Labor Market (2000).
12 In Nicaragua for example, even though 32.3% of the nation's population has access to potable water, the percentage drops off sharply to 8.8% for the population living on the Atlantic coast, where the majority of the indigenous and Afro-Caribbean populations in the country are concentrated. See International Human Rights Law Group, Submission to the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, March 3, 2000.
13 See Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, Third Report on the Human Rights Situation in Colombia, OAS/Ser.L/V;II. 102, Doc. 9 rev. 1, February 26, 1999, Original: English, Chapter XI
14 As is the case of the remaining survivors of the Quilombos in Brazil, the Garifunas in Honduras, or the Afro-Caribbean peoples in Nicaragua.
15 See, for example, Sergio Adorno, Racial Discrimination and Criminal Justice in Sao Paulo, in Rebecca Reichmann, Race in Contemporary Brazil, From Indifference to Inequality (1999), p 123.
16 Oliveira, Barbosa y dos Santos, A Cor do medo: o medo da cor (1998)['The Color of Fear: the Fear of Color'] ("together, the civilian and military police apparatus of the State kill three times more blacks than whites"), p. 50.
17 CEPAL, Etnicidad, Raza y Equidad en Amrica Latina y el Caribe, LC/R. 1967, March 8, 2000, pp. 36 et seq.
18 9th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1998: Colombia. 17/11/98.CERD/C332/ADD.1. (State Party Report). See on this same topic, Plan Nacional de Desarrollo de la Poblacin Afrocolombiana, Departamento Nacional de Planeacin, 1998.
19 CERD/C331/Add. 1, 02/11/99, & 6 (Dominican Republic).
20 13th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1994: Venezuela. 13/05/96. CERD/C263/Add. 8/Rev 1, & 77.
21 13th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1998: Haiti. 25/05/99. CERD/C/336/Add. 1, & 15 and & 17.
22 Summary of the minutes of the 1317th session: Peru. 16/03/99. CERD/C/SR. 1317, &78.
23 10th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1994: Mexico. 30/03/95. CERD/C/260/ADD.1. Paragraph 157
30
24 13th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1997: Cuba. 07/10/97. CERD/C/319/Add. 4, &16.
25 Cohen, ob. cit. p. 524.
26 In order to cover up exclusion of minorities such as indigenous people in Guatemala or the black population in Brazil.
27 Immigration policies in our region are highly racist. Uruguay, Paraguay, Honduras, Costa Rica and Panama prohibited people of African origin from immigrating. Venezuela and the Dominican Republic placed restrictions on the immigration of individuals of African extraction. Quoted in Carlos Hasenbalg, Racial Inequalities in Brazil and Throughout Latin America: Timid Responses to Disguised Racism, in Constructing Democracy, edited by Elizabeth Jelin and Eric Hershberg, 1998, p. 168.
28 For example, this was the criterion used by dance clubs or discos in Peru to discriminate. See Law Number 27049, Un Gesto Poltico contra la Discriminacin Racial, Ideele. Lima, February, 1999, No. 115, p. 57.
29 This is the criterion that is used in Uruguay to prevent entry into certain establishments or clubs. See Mundo Afro, Situacin de Discriminacin y Racismo en el Uruguay (1999), pgs. 12 and 35.
30 One of the most widely used devises in Brazil to keep Afro-Brazilians out of the labor market or to make access difficult for them.
31 13th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1998: Haiti. 25/05/99. CERD/C336/Add.1.
32 Summary proceedings of the 1317th session: Peru. 16/03/99. CERD/C/SR. 1317, & 78.
33 Final Observations of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination: Mexico. 22/09/95. A/50/18, paragraphs 353-398.
34 Summary proceedings of the 12306th session: Mexico. 21/10/97. CERD/C/SR.1206, paragraph 5. The following day, the same representative of the government would admit that when certain practices act as an obstacle to the application of Articles 2 to 5 of the Convention, that constitutes ethnic, if not racial discrimination. Summary proceedings of the 1207th session: Bulgaria, Mexico. 21/10/97. CERD/C/SR.1207, paragraph 3.
35 Minority Rights Group International, Afro-Brazilians: Time for Recognition, 1999, p. 23.
36 "In Peru, not every cholo (mestizo, mixed race, black or indian) is poor, but almost every poor person is cholo," Jos Osctequi, Poblacin, crecimiento econmico y racismo en el Per, Actualidad Econmica, Lima, Mayo 1998, # 189, p. 31.
37 10th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1994 : Mexico. 20/03/95. CERD/C/260/Add.1. paragraph 40. In response to this argument, the CERD stated its "particular concern for the fact that the State Party does not seem to realize that the latent discrimination that the 56 indigenous groups that live in Mexico are experiencing is covered by the definition of racial discrimination that appears in Article 1 of the Convention. The description of the difficult situation of those groups as mere unequal participation in socioeconomic development is inadequate." Final Observations of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination : Mexico. 22/09/95. A/50/18, paragraphs 353-398.
38 See Edward Telles and Nelson Lim, Does it Matter who Answers the Race Question? Racial Classification
31
and Income Inequality in Brazil, in Demography, Vol. 35 N. 4 (1998), 465474 and Peggy A. Lovell, Gender, Race, and the Struggle for Social Justice in Brazil, Latin American Perspectives, Issue 115, Vol. 27 No. 6, November 2000, p. 85 (showing how equally qualified Afro-BraziliansCwhich are defined as both black and brown BraziliansCearn less than white Brazilians).
39 The American Convention of Human Rights states that: "The States Parties to this Convention pledge to respect the rights and liberties [that are] recognized therein and to guarantee their free and full exercise to any person who may be subject to their jurisdiction, without any discrimination whatsoever due to reasons of YoriginYsocial, economic positionYor any other social condition (Article 1.1). The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights states that: "Each one of the States Parties to this Covenant pledge to respect and guarantee all individuals who may be found in their territory and may be subject to their jurisdiction, the rights [that are] recognized in this Covenant, without any distinction whatsoever of YsocialYorigin, economic position,Yany other social condition (Article 2.1).
40 8th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1998. Addition, Dominican Republic, CERD/C/331/Add.1, 02/11/99, &27
41 Compilation of General Recommendations: 11/02/99. CERD/C/365, General Recommendation XIV pertaining to paragraph 1 of Article 1 of the Convention B (42nd Period of Sessions. El nfasis nos pertenece.)
42 See for example, Final Observations of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination: Chile. 20/08/99. A/54/18, paragraphs 365-383.
43 See for example, Final Observations of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination: Colombia. 20.08/99. A/54/18, paragraphs 454-481.
44 See for example, Final Observations of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination: Uruguay. 19/08/99. A/54/18, paragraphs 454-435.
45 See for example, Final Observations of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination: Costa Rica. 07/04/99. CERD/C/304/Add.71 and CERD/C/SR/1317, (Peru), 03/16/99, paragraph, 35.
46 See for example, Final Obsercvations of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination: Costa Rica. 07/04/99. CERD/C/304/Add.71.
47 Final Observations of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination: Peru. 12/04/99. CERD/C/304/Add.69 (here on referred to as CERD, Peru)
48 CERD, Costa Rica.
49 10th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1994: Mexico. 30/03/95. CERD/C260/ADD.1. paragraph 157.
50 Final Observations of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination: Haiti. A/54/18, paragraphs 253-271.
51 A point made in Brazil's report, CERD/C/SR.1157, 10/23/96, paragraph 55.
52 For example, in Brazil most complaints alleging the crime recognized as racism according to the Constitution, as well as Law 7716/89, amended by Law 9459/97, are described as "crimes against honor". See, Afro Brazilians, pp. 27 to 29.
53 13th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1994: Venezuela. 13/05/96. CERD/C/263/Add.8/Rev 1, paragraph 77.
54 8th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1998 Addition, Dominican Republic, CERD/C331/Add. 1, 02/11/99, paragraph 6.
55 13th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1998: Haiti. 25/05/99. CERD/C/336/Add.1.
56 Compilation of General Recommendations: 11/02/99. CERD/C/365, General Recommendation XX (48th period of sessions, 1996).
57 12th, 13th and 14th Consolidated Report of the Oriental Republic of Uruguay to the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, paragraph 56.
58 Idem, paragraph 34.
59 13th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1997: Cuba. 07/10/97. CERD/C/319/Add.4, paragraph 16.
60 See The Black Americas, 1492-1992, Report on the Americas NACLA, Volume XXV Number 4, February 1992, p. 15. Someone once called Afro-Argentines the first "desaparecidos" in the history of the country. See Marta Beatriz Goldberg, Nuestros Negros, Desaparecidos o Ignorados?, Todo es Historia, No. 393, April, 2000,
32
p. 36.
61 There is a widespread sentiment that data collection on racial make up constitutes a form of discrimination. The government of Uruguay, for example, recognized this practice as being discriminatory in its 12th, 13th, and 14th Consolidated Report to the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, paragraph 3. To cite examples, Argentina has not included questions on race or color since 1914; Bolivia, since 1900; Peru, since 1961; Ecuador, since 1950; Venezuela, since 1876; Nicaragua, since 1920; Honduras, since 1945; and the Dominican Republic, since 1950. Quoted in Carlos Hasenbalg, Racial Inequalities in Brazil and Throughout Latin America: Timid Responses to Disguised Racism, in Constructing Democracy, edited by Elizabeth Jelin and Eric Hershberg (1998), p. 166.
62 For example, Bolivia.
63 See Telles and Elin, op. cit, in which the authors look at how pardos (brown people) are closer in terms of social status to the pretos (blacks) than to brancos (whites) in Brazil.
64 In fact, there are over 100 different categories in Brazil. See an interesting article by Eugene Robinson, On the Beach at Ipanema in the Washington Post Magazine, August 1, 1999, recounting the experience of an African-American in Brazil in terms of racial identity.
65 Marta Elena Casas Arz, La Metamorfosis del Racismo en Guatemala, 1998, p. 138.
66 For example, an article that appeared in Peru states that "there isYa broad spectrum of interpretive possibilities on the origin, function and destiny of black people in Peru, but none of them separates their future from the mixed race (mestizo) complex that characterizes the nation", Luis Milones, Peruanos de Ebano, Bienvenida Lima. December 1996/February 1997, Number 19, p. 16.
67 In this article, we shall not analyze how the origin of mestizaje in Latin America hearkens back to the sexual violence perpetrated by the Spanish and Portuguese conquistadors against indigenous women and later, by slave traders against women brought from Africa as slaves.
68 Carlos Arocha Rodrguez, Afro-Colombia Denied, in The Black Americas, 1492-1992, Report on the Americas NACLA, Volume XXV Number 4, February, 1992, p. 28.
69 See Footnote 20.
70 10th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1994: Mexico. 30/03/95. CERD/C/260/ADD.1. paragraph 157
71 CERD/C/319/Add.4, 10.07.97, paragraph 16.
72 Minority Rights Group, No longer Invisible: Afro-Latin Americans Today (1995) p. 28.
73 Carlos de la Torre. La letra con sangre entra: Racismo, Escuela y Vida Cotidiana en Ecuador, Paper presented at the Latin American Studies Association (LASA), 1997, p. 7.
74 James Early, Reflections on Cuba, Race and Politics, Souls A Critical Journal of Black Politics, Culture and Society, Vol. 1, Number 2, Spring 1999.
75 Caras de Color, Bienvenida Lima. December, 1996/February 1997, Number 19, p. 41.
76 "Los Grones" El Corazn de Alianza, Bienvenida Lima. December 1996/February 1997, Number 19, p. 53.
77 Jos Osctegui, Poblacin, crecimiento econmico y racismo en el Per, Actualidad Econmica, Lima, Mayo 1998, Number 189, p. 31.
78 Final Observations of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination: Colombia. 20/08/99. A/54/18, paragraphs 454-481.
79 Santiago Bastos y Manuela Camus, La exclusin y el desafo. Estudios sobre segregacin tnica y empleo en la ciudad de Guatemala (1998).
80 Mara Marta Mijares, Racismo y Endoracismo en Barlovento (1997) ("to speak of racism in Venezuela is somewhat complex, since it is not a very accepted topic, especially if we use the forms of racism that exist in the United States, Germany or in the republics of South Africa as a point of reference"), p. 52.
81 It would be possible to take exception to this statement by taking the cases of the politica de tierra arrasada (scorched earth policy) in Guatemala or the many policies of extermination that were implemented against indigenous populations in different countries of Latin America.
82 10th periodical report that the States Parties were required to submit in 1996: Mexico. 30/09/96. CERD/C/296/Add.1. Paragraph 73 (feeling of xenophobia and racial discrimination in some sectors of American society") and paragraph 75 ("at the present time, it is relatively easy to inflame racist and xenophobic sentiments in some sectors of American society, against the streams of migrant labor or refugees"). The report only mentioned the indigenous people as constituting one of the most vulnerable groups to violations of human
33
rights (paragraph 5) or migrant workers on the southern border who face the prospects of fear and uncertainty and, on a few occasions, it mentioned the situations of violence, corruption and vulnerability; (paragraph 59) but never did it mention discrimination [within its borders].
83 Of course, with the exceptions noted in the footnote above.
84 Response given in a survey conducted in Guatemala among traditional families in that country, quoted by Marta Elena Casas Arz, La Metamorfosis del Racismo en Guatemala, (1998), p. 130.
85 Ley creacin del INADI Instituto Nacional contra la Discriminacin y la Xenofobia y el Racismo Nro. 23.515, Promulgada de hecho 28-07-95 Ley 24.515.
86 Decreto por el que se expide la Ley Federal para Prevenir y Eliminar la Discriminacin, 11 de junio de 2003, Diario Oficial de la Federacin.
87 Acuerdo Gubernativo 390-2002 de creacin de la Comisin Presidencial contra el Racismo y la Discriminacin contra los Pueblos Indgenas.
88 Lei No 10.678, May 23, 2003, Cria a Secretaria Especial de Polticas de Promoo da Igualdade Racial, da Presidncia da Repblica, e d outras providncias.
89 Decreto presidencial 4.228, de 13 de Maio de 2002 que institui o Programa Nacional de Aes Afirmativas.
90 Lei 3.708 of Rio de Janeiro, 09/11/2001, (it establishes a quota system of 40% of all the admissions slots for blacks and brown students in the local universities of Rio de Janeiro).
91 Sueli Carneiro Amicus Curiae in Correio Braziliense, Coluna Opinio, 1/08/2003 arguing for what are the examples from the US that can be helpfull for the Brazilian experience.
92 Larry Rohter , Racial Quotas in Brazil Touch Off Fierce Debate, New York Times, April 5, 2003, Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 5 , Column 1
EiCibaeño
2010-03-02, 19:53
There seems to be a White nationalist posting in multiple threads right now, why don't you two go talk about who's more superior and leave us mutts to deal with our illegals.;)
Decimator
2010-03-02, 19:53
^Do you expect me to read all that bullshit who most likely is a misinterpretation? Can't you point out what's most important?
There seems to be a White nationalist posting in multiple threads right now, why don't you two go talk about who's more superior and leave us mutts to deal with our illegals.;)
He's obsessed with us. He even has Latinos mentioned in his sig.:lol:
BlackEGO
2010-03-02, 20:03
He's obsessed with us. He even has Latinos mentioned in his sig.:lol:
Where the Latinos at? I don't see no white people. :lol:
Where the Latinos at? I don't see no white people. :lol:
Are you daft?
"The African living in the Western hemisphere should be sensitive to the fact that the slave ships coming from Africa to the so-called New World brought no West Indians, no black Americans, no South Americans. They brought "African people" who had to adjust to the conditions where the slave ships put them down. It is by sheer accident that some are called Jamaican, Trinidadian, Barbadians, Dominicans, Brazilians. - John H. Clarke "
^
From your sig. You're obsessed with Latinos. :evilgrin:
BlackEGO
2010-03-02, 20:17
Are you daft?
"The African living in the Western hemisphere should be sensitive to the fact that the slave ships coming from Africa to the so-called New World brought no West Indians, no black Americans, no South Americans. They brought "African people" who had to adjust to the conditions where the slave ships put them down. It is by sheer accident that some are called Jamaican, Trinidadian, Barbadians, Dominicans, Brazilians. - John H. Clarke "
^
From your sig. You're obsessed with Latinos. :evilgrin:
You said Latinos, Latin, Hispanic folk are originally white folk. So you are beating your head against a brick wall. The People addressed in my sig, are African folk. Whom you seem more interested in. :evilgrin:
---------- Post added 2010-03-02 at 20:18 ----------
Are you daft?
:lol: I'm done.
Game Theory
2010-03-02, 20:39
Of course, this uppity nigger said he could pass as white in other thread :lol:
I bet he looks like this
http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/11222/15499.jpg
It latin America that man would be white, one of your own. Stop trolling.
Her being Afrocentric has to do exactly with what? Afrocentricity, is the philosophy of the African point of view, and not the other way around. A person of African decent is supposed to be Afrocentric, as would be expected of that of European decent to be Eurocentric. Such is not an insult, nor does is destroy her system of belief. Everyone who have some sort of knowledge know that Hispanics have been taught to believe that Latin America is a color blind society. Nevertheless, Lucia Newman even stated such in the following.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBNUOsrIiAs
Africa is a continent....Afrocentrism is an ideology. She embraces it, which influences her opinion...To her, a PR can only identify with their blackness (African ancestry) if they embrace a black ethno/political identity. This isn't likely to happen. It hasn't happened on the mainland where PRs are heavily influenced by African American culture (and I don't mean Hip Hop) and live in the same neighborhoods as black folks. So I doubt this ideology will have much appeal to those she feels should embrace it.
And no, Latin Americans don't see themselves as color blind...Their myth is that they don't have racism in their societies.
[Which is the castle system of Latin America.
What's this castle system in Latin America? Explain.
[And this has to do exactly with what?
That there are PRs who look like her who don't identify as black, acknowledge their African ancestry, and don't feel hostile to African Americans.
[And since when have you become the voice of African Americans, last time I checked you weren't even black, you don't know what we say in closed doors. You would be surprised.
Read her article...She admits that black people don't see people like her as black. Hence the need to strees her blackness in their presence. Not uncommon in the tri-state area. Having grown up around PRs (something you haven't) I can attest to this fact. Most blacks and whites don't view them-even ones who look like her-as black.
[You know as well as I do that Latin Americans are more color consensus, than Americans. There place in D.R in which dark skin folk can't even enter. Racially Hispaincs are the msot screwed up people, the Europeans know it, The Arabs know it, the Asians know it, the aborginals know it, and the Africans know it. We just look back while yall look like fools.
Where did I say they weren't color consensus? I did mention that they were color conscious....Just like African Americans are, as opposed to Americans in general who are more race conscious....And what does referencing the DR have to do with a post by a Nuyorican who is Afrocentric?
EiCibaeño
2010-03-02, 21:11
It latin America that man would be white, one of your own. Stop trolling.
Come on, now who's trolling? :rolleyes:
He might have some skin based nick name, but in no way would be thought of as White. I don't know if anyone would even call him Jabao.
jibarodepr
2011-03-06, 02:13
Who is Black? A Puerto Rican Woman Claims Her Place In The African Diaspora.
Afro-Latinos are becoming more conscious of the false pretense of a "color blind" society which are fed to them in Latin America. Do you guys believe now that more are waking up, this will threaten the dymanics of nationality?If she is 100%Black(Yes, there are 100% Afro-boricuas) then I don't see anything bad about it, she is claiming her heritage, she is not trying to deny her nationality, she is statin that Puerto Rico has a number of Afro slaves descendants and that they need to be recognized.
windmill
2011-03-06, 02:16
i think its messed up because she does not claim to be part of the hispanic or latino category but rather to just say that she is black and that is what alot of what those afro nazi nuts want is for hispanics to claim that they are only black
Johnny Blaze
2011-03-06, 02:18
If she is 100%Black(Yes, there are 100% Afro-boricuas) then I don't see anything bad about it, she is claiming her heritage, she is not trying to deny her nationality, she is statin that Puerto Rico has a number of Afro slaves descendants and that they need to be recognized.
....
windmill
2011-03-06, 02:21
....
would you find it ok if a predominately white puerto rican or hispanic would say that he is just white and not a hispanic or latino?
jibarodepr
2011-03-06, 02:24
i think its messed up because she does not claim to be part of the hispanic or latino category but rather to just say that she is black and that is what alot of what those afro nazi nuts want is for hispanics to claim that they are only blackIf she is 90% or more I consider her black, she want to idenitfy herself with her race, not ethnicity or nationality, like I say I am triracila and not puertorican, because triracial is my race and Puertorican is my nationality.
---------- Post added 2011-03-05 at 22:30 ----------
....If that is her I don't think she is black but mulatta and she contradicted herself when she was speaking about social constructs.
---------- Post added 2011-03-05 at 22:33 ----------
would you find it ok if a predominately white puerto rican or hispanic would say that he is just white and not a hispanic or latino?
No, because that is what he is or predominalty he is, hispanic and latino are pan-terms.
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-06, 02:30
i think its messed up because she does not claim to be part of the hispanic or latino category but rather to just say that she is black and that is what alot of what those afro nazi nuts want is for hispanics to claim that they are only black
The social label of "Latino," and "Hispanic" is derived from white individuals from Europe, so in what exact way does calling yourself a "Latino" or "Hispanic" give claim to your African ancestry? Hispanicentrism, nonetheless.
windmill
2011-03-06, 02:33
If she is 90% or more I consider her black, she want to idenitfy herself with her race, not ethnicity or nationality, like I say I am triracila and not puertorican, because triracial is my race and Puertorican is my nationality.
---------- Post added 2011-03-05 at 22:30 ----------
If that is her I don't think she is black but mulatta and she contradicted herself when she was speaking about social constructs.
so im just curious would you want puerto rico to have the same racial classifications like the u.s. does? like black, white, etc
Tenochkatl
2011-03-06, 02:34
Tsk tsk, a culturally disconnected, Aframized PR trying to push gringo-style racial relations on Latin Americans. Yup, that's what she is.
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-06, 02:35
so im just curious would you want puerto rico to have the same racial classifications like the u.s. does? like black, white, etc
They already do.
jibarodepr
2011-03-06, 02:36
so im just curious would you want puerto rico to have the same racial classifications like the u.s. does? like black, white, etcYes, for racial awareness reason, not to create an apartheid or racial supremacy stuff, just for people to be aware who they are and where did they came from.
---------- Post added 2011-03-05 at 22:37 ----------
Tsk tsk, a culturally disconnected, Aframized PR trying to push gringo-style racial relations on Latin Americans. Yup, that's what she is.I agree with her being race aware, but I don't agree with her saying she is black when she is not(she is not fully black, but mixed)
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-06, 02:39
Tsk tsk, a culturally disconnected, Aframized PR trying to push gringo-style racial relations on Latin Americans. Yup, that's what she is.
A culturally aware Puerto Rican, who realizes and understands that the concept of a "racial democracy" does not exist in Latin America. Who you think you fooling?
windmill
2011-03-06, 02:42
Yes, for racial awareness reason, not to create an apartheid or racial supremacy stuff, just for people to be aware who they are and where did they came from.
---------- Post added 2011-03-05 at 22:37 ----------
I agree with her being race aware, but I don't agree with her saying she is black when she is not(she is not fully black, but mixed)
when people are racially aware it tends to create those kind of problems and ignite alot of social stigma... i like how pr is right now when it comes to race and identidy.. i wish the u.s. was like that
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-06, 02:43
when people are racially aware it tends to create those kind of problems and ignite alot of social stigma... i like how pr is right now when it comes to race and identidy.. i wish the u.s. was like that
The U.S was like that, it was called Jim Crow.
jibarodepr
2011-03-06, 02:45
when people are racially aware it tends to create those kind of problems and ignite alot of social stigma... i like how pr is right now when it comes to race and identidy.. i wish the u.s. was like that
I don't like how PR classify themslves ethnically, I don't like the "blanco taino"or "cafe con leche" things, it creates confusion, and even less when I ask what race you are, they say, "puertorriqueño!!!!" because it is not a race, it is a nationality.
Puerto Ricans in gneral(or majority) go in htat they are African, Taino and Spanish, no matter if you rweally see they have not oe or two of those ancestries.
EiCibaeño
2011-03-06, 02:46
when people are racially aware it tends to create those kind of problems and ignite alot of social stigma... i like how pr is right now when it comes to race and identidy.. i wish the u.s. was like that
Agreed.
Jibaro we've had this discussion before and I'll never get your pro-"racial consciousness" stance. I think a homogenized national identity despite racial heterogeneity makes for a fair society.
windmill
2011-03-06, 02:47
I don't like how PR classify themslves ethnically, I don't like the "blanco taino"or "cafe con leche" things, it creates confusion, and even less when I ask what race you are, they say, "puertorriqueño!!!!" because it is not a race, it is a nationality.
Puerto Ricans in gneral(or majority) go in htat they are African, Taino and Spanish, no matter if you rweally see they have not oe or two of those ancestries.
they dont say that for racial purposes but theyre implying that it doesnt matter because they just see themselves as being puerto rican and were so mixed up that it would be impossible to claim one ancestry and it would just be complicated to claim them all
jibarodepr
2011-03-06, 02:50
they dont say that for racial purposes but theyre implying that it doesnt matter because they just see themselves as being puerto rican and were so mixed up that it would be impossible to claim one ancestry and it would just be complicated to claim them allHow so?If they weren't lazy to do so, they could find thier ancestries, I have done it and it isn't complicated.They just want to jump on the social bandwagon, I don't like to follow what mainstream society puts.
Bonaoense
2011-03-06, 03:01
I have a puerto rican channel (WAPA America) and I've seen boricuas who look textbook mulattoid refer to themselves as "negro", when they would otherwise be considered "indio" in the DR. Is that common in Puerto Rico or is it just some afro-centrist types?
jibarodepr
2011-03-06, 03:03
I have a puerto rican channel (WAPA America) and I've seen boricuas who look 50% eruo refer to themselves as "negro", when they would otherwise be considered "indio" in the DR. Is that common in Puerto Rico or is it just some afro-centrist types?Some do say that in a joke manner to describe their darkness in skin, but they aren'truly decribing their race.
WAPA is channel 4 here.
---------- Post added 2011-03-05 at 23:13 ----------
I have a puerto rican channel (WAPA America) and I've seen boricuas who look textbook mulattoid refer to themselves as "negro", when they would otherwise be considered "indio" in the DR. Is that common in Puerto Rico or is it just some afro-centrist types?Yes, some do identify as black also because that is the culutre they gr wup in, but racially they are mixed.
di0sa.s0y
2011-03-06, 05:21
Our society becomes more & more mixed by the day. I'm not saying we should adopt this colorblind attitude because there are still far too many issues with racism & concerning colorism in all parts of the globe that need to be addressed & discussed before we will ever understand how much it truly should not matter. However, outdated One-droppist mentalities these days are quite annoying & against all that I am, being someone of a multiracial, multiethnic & multicultural background. Afrocentrists, Eurocentrists, etc., whatever...it still contributes to a divide rather than any attempts to unify based on a commonality worth more attention than socially-constructed race or color labels; and that is the fact that we are all human. Nationalism is fine. That is all.
when people are racially aware it tends to create those kind of problems and ignite alot of social stigma... i like how pr is right now when it comes to race and identidy.. i wish the u.s. was like that
Different histories/factors for different peoples. The US has more landmass, more immigrants, more variety; race/ethnicity will always be a factor until immigration halts or is decreased. Regardless, humans will always find some way to set themselves apart from each other.
Also, Latinos are 'racially aware' but because they exhibit a wide variety of phenotypes they're more accommodating of those phenotypes they're familiar with. If a Dinka relocates to Latin America, he's still going be seen as different; even if he's fluent with the lang/culture. Anybody who denies that is just lying.
jibarodepr
2011-03-06, 13:03
Our society becomes more & more mixed by the day. I'm not saying we should adopt this colorblind attitude because there are still far too many issues with racism & concerning colorism in all parts of the globe that need to be addressed & discussed before we will ever understand how much it truly should not matter. However, outdated One-droppist mentalities these days are quite annoying & against all that I am, being someone of a multiracial, multiethnic & multicultural background. Afrocentrists, Eurocentrists, etc., whatever...it still contributes to a divide rather than any attempts to unify based on a commonality worth more attention than socially-constructed race or color labels; and that is the fact that we are all human. Nationalism is fine. That is all.This has nothing to do with color, but with culture and ancestry, also a multicultural society should put a way to identify with the ancestry they have, be it mestizo, mulatto or triracial, nationalism is irrelevant to culture, ist just the territory your are born in.
---------- Post added 2011-03-06 at 09:07 ----------
Agreed.
Jibaro we've had this discussion before and I'll never get your pro-"racial consciousness" stance. I think a homogenized national identity despite racial heterogeneity makes for a fair society.Anyone who is born in the territory can have the nationality, a japanese man born and grown in Puerto Rico is Puerto Rican, but is not ancestrallly PR(and maybe not culturally, if he is raised in the ancesotr or family ways).A most effective way to idenitfy oneself is with ancestry and culture.PR jibaro culture is different from Afro-puertorican and Spanish"criollo"culture, and what unites them is that they were orirignated in the same territory, but on hee there are people who have preferences with one culture or the other the reasons be ancestry or culture they were raised with.
My cousin-in-law is a very European looking Puerto Rican but he doesn't consider himself white. He views himself as Puerto Rican first and foremost and he acknowledges the ancestral diversity of PR's. I also know a PR who looks European but has an African Y chromosome.
Someone also mentioned the fact that most Afro-Puerto Ricans are mixed. Most Aframs are mixed as well and there is no such thing as a pure ethnos. The concept of race brings with it the illusion of genetic monoliths. Race is a socially constructed concept, therefore we should instead speak of ethnicity, culture, ancestry and nationality. These terms are more accurate when describing the individual identity and collective identity of people.
jibarodepr
2011-03-06, 17:50
A culturally aware Puerto Rican, who realizes and understands that the concept of a "racial democracy" does not exist in Latin America. Who you think you fooling?But remember PR culture is not soleley black, it is also Taino and European, itis a triraicial culture.For exception of Loiceños who have their unique African diaspora culture(but with some Taino influence), but it is considered part of PR culture.
---------- Post added 2011-03-06 at 13:52 ----------
The social label of "Latino," and "Hispanic" is derived from white individuals from Europe, so in what exact way does calling yourself a "Latino" or "Hispanic" give claim to your African ancestry? Hispanicentrism, nonetheless.Both labels are language wise, and remeber, people of this part of America also have European ancestry, alongside the Amerindian.
Besides, I consider myself a Triracial Puertorican, not latino.
Tenochkatl
2011-03-06, 18:13
A culturally aware Puerto Rican, who realizes and understands that the concept of a "racial democracy" does not exist in Latin America. Who you think you fooling?
The U.S was like that, it was called Jim Crow.
Racial democracy? Jim Crow, seriously? :lol: You are fooling yourself if you think we live in apartheid states comparable to the US about 50 years ago.
Quite a distorted view of Latin American social dynamics viewing it through that racialist Afrocentric lense you have right there. You can keep your divisive, backward American racial dynamics, that's the last thing we need.
jibarodepr
2011-03-06, 18:15
Racial democracy? Jim Crow, seriously? :lol: You are fooling yourself if you think we live in apartheid states comparable to the US less than 50 years ago.
Quite a distorted view of Latin American social dynamics viewing it through your racialist Afrocentric lense you have right there. You can keep your divisive, backward American racial dynamics, that's the last thing we need.Yes, I go for Latin American colonial labels rather than US ones.
---------- Post added 2011-03-06 at 14:22 ----------
This is Rosa Clemente's web site:
http://www.rosaclemente.org/
---------- Post added 2011-03-06 at 14:27 ----------
Listen people: Being Black is not just skin color, nor is it synonymous with Black Americans. To assert who I am is the most liberating and revolutionary thing I can ever do. Being a Black Puerto Rican encompasses me racially, ethically and most importantly, gives me a homeland to refer to.
Yes, your homeland is Puerto Rico. ;)
---------- Post added 2011-03-06 at 14:32 ----------
I am not Spanish. Spanish is just another language I speak. I am not a Hispanic. My ancestors are not descendants of Spain, but descendants of Africa. I define my existence by race and land. (Borinken is the indigenous name of the island of Puerto Rico.)
Then you aren't black, you are Taino according to this definiton you said.
---------- Post added 2011-03-06 at 14:38 ----------
The Atlantic slave trade brought Africans to Puerto Rico in the early 1500s. Some of the first slave rebellions took place on the island of Puerto Rico. Until 1846, Africanos on the island had to carry a libreta to move around the island, like the passbook system in apartheid South Africa.LOL! Only rich people didn't carry a libreta, nearly every one, be white, mestizo, mulato or black carried a libreta, not only Äfricanos".And it wasn't for racial pruposes, it was for social and working purposes.
In Puerto Rico, you will find large communities of descendants of the Yoruba, Bambara, Wolof and Mandingo people. Puerto Rican culture is inherently African culture.Yes, Loiza, Carolina, Ponce, Mayaguez and Santurce, and they aren't communities that "large". Puerto Rico is not only African culture, there is the Taino element and European element on it.The only pred black town is Loiza, the rest are just in communities
I am often asked what I am usually by Blacks who are lighter than me, and by
Latinos as dark or darker than me. To answer the ,000 question, I am a
Black Boricua, Black Rican, Puertorique�a! Almost always I am
questioned about why I choose to call myself Black over Latina, Spanish or
Hispanic. Let me break it down.Exactly, your hometown is Puerto Rico, and your are only half black rican.
---------- Post added 2011-03-06 at 14:45 ----------
To conclude, this woman seems to know a lot of African diaspora, but nothing about Puerto Rico's history.She is one of some NY Ricans issues we have to deal everyday, they think they know our culture like us here, but when she meets us, there are for a big surprise.I am even thinking to send her an e-mail about this.
---------- Post added 2011-03-06 at 14:51 ----------
My Blackness is one of the greatest powers I have.You half blackness better said.
di0sa.s0y
2011-03-06, 19:28
This has nothing to do with color, but with culture and ancestry, also a multicultural society should put a way to identify with the ancestry they have, be it mestizo, mulatto or triracial, nationalism is irrelevant to culture, ist just the territory your are born in.
---------- Post added 2011-03-06 at 09:07 ----------
Anyone who is born in the territory can have the nationality, a japanese man born and grown in Puerto Rico is Puerto Rican, but is not ancestrallly PR(and maybe not culturally, if he is raised in the ancesotr or family ways).A most effective way to idenitfy oneself is with ancestry and culture.PR jibaro culture is different from Afro-puertorican and Spanish"criollo"culture, and what unites them is that they were orirignated in the same territory, but on hee there are people who have preferences with one culture or the other the reasons be ancestry or culture they were raised with.
What has nothing to do with color? It certainly does as well as culture. Are you on another planet? And that is obviously your opinion that we should have a way to identify with being mixed. We already have enough labels to identify with, why do we need more? They still manage to box us in leaving no openness to specific components we wish to represent proudly. Labels find a way to "sum" people up, when for a lot of us, it goes much deeper than that label. Still, I don't agree with a multicultural society finding a way (one word) to describe us as a group, which seems to be what you implied. Nationalism is irrelevant to what? It has been mentioned in here numerous times in random banter so my statement was very relevant to me. Nationalism is openly & vigorously represented by many & I don't find anything wrong with it whatsoever.
di0sa.s0y
2011-03-06, 19:30
Different histories/factors for different peoples. The US has more landmass, more immigrants, more variety; race/ethnicity will always be a factor until immigration halts or is decreased. Regardless, humans will always find some way to set themselves apart from each other.
Also, Latinos are 'racially aware' but because they exhibit a wide variety of phenotypes they're more accommodating of those phenotypes they're familiar with. If a Dinka relocates to Latin America, he's still going be seen as different; even if he's fluent with the lang/culture. Anybody who denies that is just lying.
Exactly.
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-06, 20:59
Racial democracy? Jim Crow, seriously? :lol: You are fooling yourself if you think we live in apartheid states comparable to the US about 50 years ago.
Quite a distorted view of Latin American social dynamics viewing it through that racialist Afrocentric lense you have right there. You can keep your divisive, backward American racial dynamics, that's the last thing we need.
Afrocentric this, Afrocentric that; anyone who stands up and speaks the truth is labeled an Afrocentric, however, the irony remains in the fact that you people don't even know what an Afrocentric is. The reason for such remains in the fact that culturally Latin America is based upon Eurocentrism, the standard of worshiping whiteness (Spain), and any and all ideals which derived from Europe. Brazil pushing its favelas further out for the Olympics, and carnival is no coincidence, for such behavior such as this takes place all over Latin America where a visible population of African descendants live. Blacks in Latin America live as third world citizens, the darker you are the more you are destined to live a life of poverty. You people are fooling no-one with your continued false ideology of an "Racial Democracy," which is ultimately hidden in white supremacy. Furthermore, no one is trying to force labels on South Americans, your not that important enough to imposed such; however, labeling yourselves as Donkeys, Quadroons, Triracials, Mestizos, Zambos and the thousand others you people used, makes U.S racial politics pail in comparison to that home grown confusion.
Afrocentric this, Afrocentric that; anyone who stands up and speaks the truth is labeled an Afrocentric, however, the irony remains in the fact that you people don't even know what an Afrocentric is. The reason for such remains in the fact that culturally Latin America is based upon Eurocentrism, the standard of worshiping whiteness (Spain), and any and all ideals which derived from Europe. Brazil pushing its favelas further out for the Olympics, and carnival is no coincidence, for such behavior such as this takes place all over Latin America where a visible population of African descendants live. Blacks in Latin America live as third world citizens, the darker you are the more you are destined to live a life of poverty. You people are fooling no-one with your continued false ideology of an "Racial Democracy," which is ultimately hidden in white supremacy. Furthermore, no one is trying to force labels on South Americans, your not that important enough to imposed such; however, labeling yourselves as Donkeys, Quadroons, Triracials, Mestizos, Zambos and the thousand others you people used, makes U.S racial politics pail in comparison to that home grown confusion.
Something isn't the truth just because you say it's the truth. Perspective is essential here. Ethnic or phenotypical discrimination is one thing, but Jim Crow is on another level. In Latin America, there are no laws that segregate people with African phenotypes from people with European or Native American phenotypes. Latinos with African phenotypes are not forced to use different restrooms, restaurants or drinking fountains. There aren't laws forbidding the marriage between people with African phenotypes to people with European phenotypes. This, however, doesn't mean that discrimination does not take place. Discrimination against people of African descent and Native descent does take place in Latin America but there are no formal Jim Crow like laws that enforce discrimination and segregation. People in Latin America also value nationality and culture more than race or ancestry.
Furthermore, many Latin American countries are largely influenced by West African culture. Some Latinos favor the cultural traditions of Spain while other favor the African and Native American traditions. To say that they're all Eurocentric is to do a great disservice to their cultural diversity.
Last but not least Afrocentrism, like Eurocentrism, has a radical side. The radical side of Afrocentrism entails historical revisionism, pseudohistory, black nationalism and sometimes the one-drop rule (ironically invented by slave masters). Most people on this forum are referring to the radical side of Afrocentrism.
jibarodepr
2011-03-08, 13:08
What has nothing to do with color? It certainly does as well as culture. Are you on another planet? And that is obviously your opinion that we should have a way to identify with being mixed. We already have enough labels to identify with, why do we need more? They still manage to box us in leaving no openness to specific components we wish to represent proudly. Labels find a way to "sum" people up, when for a lot of us, it goes much deeper than that label. Still, I don't agree with a multicultural society finding a way (one word) to describe us as a group, which seems to be what you implied. Nationalism is irrelevant to what? It has been mentioned in here numerous times in random banter so my statement was very relevant to me. Nationalism is openly & vigorously represented by many & I don't find anything wrong with it whatsoever.Nationalism has to do with the territory bieng born and culture, but it doesn't identify my ancestry an origin.How do you idneitfy yourself?
kilometro7
2011-03-08, 13:56
Furthermore, no one is trying to force labels on South Americans, your not that important enough to imposed such; however, labeling yourselves as Donkeys, Quadroons, Triracials, Mestizos, Zambos and the thousand others you people used, makes U.S racial politics pail in comparison to that home grown confusion.
Lol No one in Latin American uses those labels in real life, these labels are use by everyone only here in anthro forums.
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-08, 14:44
Something isn't the truth just because you say it's the truth. Perspective is essential here. Ethnic or phenotypical discrimination is one thing, but Jim Crow is on another level. In Latin America, there are no laws that segregate people with African phenotypes from people with European or Native American phenotypes. Latinos with African phenotypes are not forced to use different restrooms, restaurants or drinking fountains. There aren't laws forbidding the marriage between people with African phenotypes to people with European phenotypes. This, however, doesn't mean that discrimination does not take place. Discrimination against people of African descent and Native descent does take place in Latin America but there are no formal Jim Crow like laws that enforce discrimination and segregation. People in Latin America also value nationality and culture more than race or ancestry.
Perspective is based upon ones own reality, and that in which I speak of is based upon my own observance, be it through conservation, travel, or even through individuals which who I converse to daily who live in the regions in which I speak of. So based upon this knowledge, what I am speaking is the truth, its the truth because it goes beyond what is expected, and what many of these people do not want others to know about their condition. The majority of people in Latin America worship the Spanish, no matter what their complexion is, their governments show no diversity, and nor does their media, for this is all factual. Who exactly stated that systematically signed laws such as Jim Crow was indoctrinated in Latin America? I stated such behavior was prevalent, and to this very day it remains prevalent, no matter if you want to admit this or not. Individuals whom show any observance of an African phenotype live a life poverty, and remains a second class citizen in their very own country, and are subjugated by Mulattoes, Mestizos, whites, and everyone else. However, if you were to ask them why do their condition exist they would profoundly state “excuses” other than what everyone else knows and see, a delusional state of a “racial democracy.” Such dynamics is the reason why the mulattoes destroyed the Haitian Revolution. If your that delusional to believe that the people in Latin America value nationality and culture over race, you are mentally insane.
Furthermore, many Latin American countries are largely influenced by West African culture. Some Latinos favor the cultural traditions of Spain while other favor the African and Native American traditions. To say that they're all Eurocentric is to do a great disservice to their cultural diversity.
Yes, there all Eurocentric. Just as African Americans are until they pick up a book, and learn how much of a lie they have been living. Western society is a construct which is based upon the elements of Europe, thus its policy's are Eurocentric, and so are its standards. An African American with an English name, how much sense does this make? As much as a Chinese who would be named James Franco; your brain psychologically questions such dynamics, just as a negro named Celia Cruz. I'm not here to settle for whats given.
Last but not least Afrocentrism, like Eurocentrism, has a radical side. The radical side of Afrocentrism entails historical revisionism, pseudohistory, black nationalism and sometimes the one-drop rule (ironically invented by slave masters). Most people on this forum are referring to the radical side of Afrocentrism.
Eurocentrism is the paradigm of folk, history, ect; told from an European perspective. Afrocentrism is the element in which the African tells his origin, and the history of his people though himself instead of outsides revealing his history instead. I've noticed some of you Negros have become psychologically imbalance that you can't even think outside of European authority, that you even question your very own existence, especially when your on the other side of the spectrum. You outsiders cry about the Afrocentric boogeyman yet project multiculturalism, mullatocentrism, and non-existent racial admixtures on other societies.
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-08, 14:48
Lol No one in Latin American uses those labels in real life, these labels are use by everyone only here in anthro forums.
Those labels are profoundly used.
Bonaoense
2011-03-08, 20:24
the word "mulato" is fairly used in the dr (but not regularly), while all those other racial labels are stuck in the past.
By "fairly used" I mean that most people in the DR would know what a mulato is, people is only (very) occasionally used to describe our ethnic make-up or a rare term of endearment.
Tenochkatl
2011-03-08, 20:57
There is plenty of racist attitudes left over from the colonial period, I'll give "Anthony Greendown" that, but comparing the current situation to Jim Crow institutionalized racism is plain ridiculous.
The only label Mexicans use relatively often is 'mestizo' but that has more of a cultural and ancestral connotation rather than a phenotypical one nowadays. It encompasses the vast majority native Spanish-speakers with roots in this country regardless of their actual admixture or phenotype, except for self-identified Amerindians who have preserved their cultural and ethnic ties to a given indigenous group but lost the language somehow. Most people do not know what the hell is a 'zambo'.
di0sa.s0y
2011-03-08, 21:23
Nationalism has to do with the territory bieng born and culture, but it doesn't identify my ancestry an origin.How do you idneitfy yourself?
That of which I am fully aware of & am proud of. As well.as taking pride in my ancestry & origin. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with pride in where you were born and have lived your life, and culture is something especially to be proud of. Even those who assimilate. One does not negate the other if you stay consistent in your practices. You can get an idea of how I may identify on your left hand side. Thanks.
pandemoney2k
2011-03-08, 21:26
Who is Black? A Puerto Rican Woman Claims Her Place In The African Diaspora.
Afro-Latinos are becoming more conscious of the false pretense of a "color blind" society which are fed to them in Latin America. Do you guys believe now that more are waking up, this will threaten the dymanics of nationality?
why would it threaten the dynamics of nationality? in being say, an afro-colombian..would the afro part negate the colombian part as if they are mutually exclusive? they aren't.
jibarodepr
2011-03-09, 17:09
That of which I am fully aware of & am proud of. As well.as taking pride in my ancestry & origin. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with pride in where you were born and have lived your life, and culture is something especially to be proud of. Even those who assimilate. One does not negate the other if you stay consistent in your practices. You can get an idea of how I may identify on your left hand side. Thanks.You welcome. ;)
jibarodepr
2011-03-14, 20:07
Perspective is based upon ones own reality, and that in which I speak of is based upon my own observance, be it through conservation, travel, or even through individuals which who I converse to daily who live in the regions in which I speak of. So based upon this knowledge, what I am speaking is the truth, its the truth because it goes beyond what is expected, and what many of these people do not want others to know about their condition. The majority of people in Latin America worship the Spanish, no matter what their complexion is, their governments show no diversity, and nor does their media, for this is all factual. Who exactly stated that systematically signed laws such as Jim Crow was indoctrinated in Latin America? I stated such behavior was prevalent, and to this very day it remains prevalent, no matter if you want to admit this or not. Individuals whom show any observance of an African phenotype live a life poverty, and remains a second class citizen in their very own country, and are subjugated by Mulattoes, Mestizos, whites, and everyone else. However, if you were to ask them why do their condition exist they would profoundly state “excuses” other than what everyone else knows and see, a delusional state of a “racial democracy.” Such dynamics is the reason why the mulattoes destroyed the Haitian Revolution. If your that delusional to believe that the people in Latin America value nationality and culture over race, you are mentally insane. Think can be true, and specially in the Latin American countries with the less percentage of African ancestry(Mexico, Central American and the middle and South countries of South America), on the caribbean there is a bit more of appreciation, but I can undertsand what you say, it is very difficult for a black person, despite being beautiful, to win a miss universe pageant contest(They won't even win the regionals) for some reason i don't understand, also there is a subtle racism here in the island, people don't like to idenitfy much with the black ancestry, they better say brown skinned or something like it, even Loiza is rumored to receive less funds than the rest of the region of PR ofr it being predominantly a black town.
Eurocentrism is the paradigm of folk, history, ect; told from an European perspective. Afrocentrism is the element in which the African tells his origin, and the history of his people though himself instead of outsides revealing his history instead.I thought Afrocentrism was the same as Eurocentrism but told form an African perspective instead of the European.Both are ethnocentrism and I don't like them both.
---------- Post added 2011-03-14 at 15:10 ----------
Those labels are profoundly used.Here in PR we use blanco, trigueño(light brown skinned, it applies for mestizo and light brown skinned mulattos))prieto(dark or chocolate brown skinned, and it applies for both black and dark skinned mulattos) and negro(this is not an insult, it is the spanish word for "black")
Yes, there all Eurocentric. Just as African Americans are until they pick up a book, and learn how much of a lie they have been living. Western society is a construct which is based upon the elements of Europe, thus its policy's are Eurocentric, and so are its standards. An African American with an English name, how much sense does this make? As much as a Chinese who would be named James Franco; your brain psychologically questions such dynamics, just as a negro named Celia Cruz. I'm not here to settle for whats given.
Go change your name if it makes you feel better about yourself. I hope you pick a name from the right tribe. Does the fact that English is your first language also bother you? I'm personally proud to be African-American. The ethnogenesis of African Americans took place in America so I don't really look to Africa for my culture and ethnic identity. Why does it matter that Western civilization originated in Europe? Do you have some kind of inferiority complex? Do you feel like you're accepting the culture of the slave-master?
Why don't you tell me some of the lies that the white man tells us nowadays?
Eurocentrism is the paradigm of folk, history, ect; told from an European perspective. Afrocentrism is the element in which the African tells his origin, and the history of his people though himself instead of outsides revealing his history instead. I've noticed some of you Negros have become psychologically imbalance that you can't even think outside of European authority, that you even question your very own existence, especially when your on the other side of the spectrum. You outsiders cry about the Afrocentric boogeyman yet project multiculturalism, mullatocentrism, and non-existent racial admixtures on other societies.
Maybe some of us have no problem with being African-American instead of just being African (culturally and ethnically). Maybe some of us don't need to derive all or most of our personal pride from our ethnic heritage or ancestry. Maybe some of us believe that pride is best built upon the accomplishments of the individual.
Why don't you tell me a bit of history from an "African perspective"?
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-15, 07:37
I thought Afrocentrism was the same as Eurocentrism but told form an African perspective instead of the European.Both are ethnocentrism and I don't like them both.[COLOR="Silver"]
Strategically, those involved could careless about what you don't like. Especially noting the factor that the dominate culture of Latin America is of Eurocentric matter. Africans have the right to tell their own history, after countless century's of lies projected on their continent, lies which are still being taught in the educational systems where ever European colonization has taken place. It's also funny that you would also throw out the labels of "ethnocentrism" when Hispanics are the biggest culprit of such ideals. Just as you all continue to project your out of date racial labels on non Hispanic new world populations. And you of all people is the biggest culprit of this.
Go change your name if it makes you feel better about yourself. I hope you pick a name from the right tribe. Does the fact that English is your first language also bother you? I'm personally proud to be African-American. The ethnogenesis of African Americans took place in America so I don't really look to Africa for my culture and ethnic identity. Why does it matter that Western civilization originated in Europe? Do you have some kind of inferiority complex? Do you feel like you're accepting the culture of the slave-master?
The fact that English is my first language does bother me, and it should every other African American if they have some common sense. African American culture is a culture which developed out of fear, and the worshiping of all ideas white. This is the primary reason the African American community is in the dire state its currently in. Accepting whiteness as the standard of beauty, accepting Christianity, and a white God, viewing your life through the standard of Eurocentrism, accepting interracial relationships, and accepting mulattoes into the African American category, diluting African blood lines, integrating into their schools; ottal failure, and so was the civil rights movement. Blacks always want to integrate, yet no one wants to integrate with them. Blacks have no friends. The black and brown power bullshit, is a facade. Black is black, and black needs to put their interest first instead of seeking civil justice for themselves, and others.
Before integration, African American neighborhoods were not "ghettos," many of the homes were considered to be nice homes during that time. Many of these neighborhoods flourished with black doctors, lawyers, and teachers, until the civil rights movement, when blacks felt the need to integrate their children into white schools, which was and still to this very day a total failure. How can black babies having a higher intellect than white babies before enter school, till once they enter fall behind? Once black children enter the public education system they fall behind, not just psychologically but also spiritually. Blacks have no friends, you go to Europe, blacks are being attacked, go to Asia, their being attacked, South America their being attacked, even by mulattoes who are so in denial. Blacks have no friends. Once blacks moved out of their neighborhoods into the white ones, ghettos were formed, and all the black businesses moved from the African American community, to be killed economically by laws which were unjust to black businesses, which are still to this very day. As long your on one side of the spectrum, and your currently trying to reach the middle, or the otherside of the spectrum, you will continue to like a life of misery, which will continue to manifest in your children. And then you supporters of multiculturalism say, "Mixing the races will solve the race problem," false. Mixing the races lead to the problems of religion, ethnocentrism, colorism ect. Blacks have no friends.
Why don't you tell me some of the lies that the white man tells us nowadays?
You can enter any white educational institute, and it should hit you right in the face.
Maybe some of us have no problem with being African-American instead of just being African (culturally and ethnically). Maybe some of us don't need to derive all or most of our personal pride from our ethnic heritage or ancestry. Maybe some of us believe that pride is best built upon the accomplishments of the individual.
Most of "you" don't even know much about African American history, outside of Martin Luther king, you people don't know very much. The African American community is not based upon individualism.
Why don't you tell me a bit of history from an "African perspective"?
There are many African scholars already doing that, you're not informed?
in Cuba only mulato, blanco, negro, chino or mezclado (more rarely) are used. Then also Jabao and a few similar terms but that's only a descriptor. It's no different than Aframs calling themselves redbones or whatever the fuck you people do.
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-15, 23:51
in Cuba only mulato, blanco, negro, chino or mezclado (more rarely) are used. Then also Jabao and a few similar terms but that's only a descriptor. It's no different than Aframs calling themselves redbones or whatever the fuck you people do.
Ad hominem.
The fact that English is my first language does bother me, and it should every other African American if they have some common sense. African American culture is a culture which developed out of fear, and the worshiping of all ideas white. This is the primary reason the African American community is in the dire state its currently in. Accepting whiteness as the standard of beauty, accepting Christianity, and a white God, viewing your life through the standard of Eurocentrism, accepting interracial relationships, and accepting mulattoes into the African American category, diluting African blood lines, integrating into their schools; ottal failure, and so was the civil rights movement. Blacks always want to integrate, yet no one wants to integrate with them. Blacks have no friends. The black and brown power bullshit, is a facade. Black is black, and black needs to put their interest first instead of seeking civil justice for themselves, and others.
Before integration, African American neighborhoods were not "ghettos," many of the homes were considered to be nice homes during that time. Many of these neighborhoods flourished with black doctors, lawyers, and teachers, until the civil rights movement, when blacks felt the need to integrate their children into white schools, which was and still to this very day a total failure. How can black babies having a higher intellect than white babies before enter school, till once they enter fall behind? Once black children enter the public education system they fall behind, not just psychologically but also spiritually. Blacks have no friends, you go to Europe, blacks are being attacked, go to Asia, their being attacked, South America their being attacked, even by mulattoes who are so in denial. Blacks have no friends. Once blacks moved out of their neighborhoods into the white ones, ghettos were formed, and all the black businesses moved from the African American community, to be killed economically by laws which were unjust to black businesses, which are still to this very day. As long your on one side of the spectrum, and your currently trying to reach the middle, or the otherside of the spectrum, you will continue to like a life of misery, which will continue to manifest in your children. And then you supporters of multiculturalism say, "Mixing the races will solve the race problem," false. Mixing the races lead to the problems of religion, ethnocentrism, colorism ect. Blacks have no friends.
You can enter any white educational institute, and it should hit you right in the face.
Most of "you" don't even know much about African American history, outside of Martin Luther king, you people don't know very much. The African American community is not based upon individualism.
There are many African scholars already doing that, you're not informed?
Well I'm an atheist so a "white" god doesn't mean anything to me. I would reject an African god just as quickly as I would reject a European one. I guess Italian-Americans should be upset over the fact that English is the first language for the vast majority of them as well. Oh wait, that's right, they don't count because they look more like the people who invented English :D. Do you also wear dashikis instead of suits because you feel inferior in the white man's clothing :lol:.
Integrated schools is not what's holding African-Americans back. What's holding African-Americans back the most are the cultural values that have been effecting us ever since we adopted social liberalism as a socio-political philosophy. The societal effects that have been weakening the strength of America as a whole have been effecting our ethnic group the most. The effects I'm speaking of are fatherless homes, high divorce rates, the weakening of the nuclear family as well as the devaluation of education, intellect and industriousness.
Thanks for not mentioning one lie that the white man is telling us in our public schools. Thanks for also not mentioning one historical detail from a "African perspective". I can already smell the BS you would say. I've been there, done that and moved on. Afrocentrism is no different from the Eurocentrism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocentrism) of the past. The only essential difference between Eurocentrism and Afrocentrism is that the former is based on a superiority complex and the latter is based on an inferiority complex.
Also, people of African descent aren't the only people who face discrimination and prejudice from other groups. If you go to Japan, every non-Japanese person faces some amount of prejudice and discrimination. The same goes for China and Korea. Furthermore, there are always divisions inside groups as well as between them. If you think everyone in Africa loves each other because of their "blackness" or that they loved each other before the Europeans got there then you are delusional.
I do have friends and I choose them based on common values and personality over anything else. I also have enemies and people that I choose not associate with. Racists and ethnocentrists are at the top of my list of people not to associate with. You're not a proud Afro-American. You are a racist with an inferiority complex who thinks that it's OK to be that way because you're a victim. Now that I know your character, I will ignore you.
Since I admit to being a part of the Taino diaspora, I don't see what the big deal is.
Bonaoense
2011-03-16, 04:39
Well she says she's black and nothing else, and that hispanic caribbean cultures are just african. I don't really care to be honest
Well she says she's black and nothing else, and that hispanic caribbean cultures are just african. I don't really care to be honest
Well it's not true that Caribbean cultures are just African but after reading the passage again I still don't think what she said is that big of a deal.
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-16, 05:30
Well I'm an atheist so a "white" god doesn't mean anything to me. I would reject an African god just as quickly as I would reject a European one. I guess Italian-Americans should be upset over the fact that English is the first language for the vast majority of them as well. Oh wait, that's right, they don't count because they look more like the people who invented English :D. Do you also wear dashikis instead of suits because you feel inferior in the white man's clothing :lol:.
Integrated schools is not what's holding African-Americans back. What's holding African-Americans back the most are the cultural values that have been effecting us ever since we adopted social liberalism as a socio-political philosophy. The societal effects that have been weakening the strength of America as a whole have been effecting our ethnic group the most. The effects I'm speaking of are fatherless homes, high divorce rates, the weakening of the nuclear family as well as the devaluation of education, intellect and industriousness.
Thanks for not mentioning one lie that the white man is telling us in our public schools. Thanks for also not mentioning one historical detail from a "African perspective". I can already smell the BS you would say. I've been there, done that and moved on. Afrocentrism is no different from the Eurocentrism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocentrism) of the past. The only essential difference between Eurocentrism and Afrocentrism is that the former is based on a superiority complex and the latter is based on an inferiority complex.
Also, people of African descent aren't the only people who face discrimination and prejudice from other groups. If you go to Japan, every non-Japanese person faces some amount of prejudice and discrimination. The same goes for China and Korea. Furthermore, there are always divisions inside groups as well as between them. If you think everyone in Africa loves each other because of their "blackness" or that they loved each other before the Europeans got there then you are delusional.
I do have friends and I choose them based on common values and personality over anything else. I also have enemies and people that I choose not associate with. Racists and ethnocentrists are at the top of my list of people not to associate with. You're not a proud Afro-American. You are a racist with an inferiority complex who thinks that it's OK to be that way because you're a victim. Now that I know your character, I will ignore you.
You can ignore what is factual all you want, that's generally what is stated by individuals who are victims of Eurocentrism, anyway. You people have become so adjusted to the way that things are now, that you wouldn't dare to change the structure or threaten the system in anyway. The powers that be have you exactly where they want you to be, completely docile in nature. Atheism is an excuse from individuals who suffer from a devalued intellectual capacity, who have yet you find themselves. So you stating that you're an atheist is not surprising in any regards, whatsoever. Furthermore, Italian American's are Europeans, and thus are Eurocentric by nature, they are biologically given the advantage over those of African decent, for the system was not created for those of African decent to gain any empowerment in it. Africans and Europeans are biologically created different, and the nature of the black is different than that of the white. This western society is not designed for Negros, unless assimilation has taken place, completely.
I smell bullshit. Before any sort of integration, or the Civil Rights movement the black marriage rate was in the 90 percentile, you can not or could not find an African American who was not raised in African American family, without a mother and father. Integration killed the African American community, and if there is any sort of element in African American culture which devalues education, it is a reactionary response to force from other communities and there input in controlling the minds of black children. Black infants already have a higher IQ than their counterparts before they even set foot in any school, that's factual. Once they enter the educational system in which they are no longer the focal point, while the "other" is, while white supremacy is being taught, for it does begin in the school system, they fall behind. I also have sources to back up any and all my statements. The destruction of the black family came about at the end of the civil rights movement, when white women took a stand and stated they wanted to be equal to their men, in which black women came along and stated the same, while failing to realize that black men were not their oppressor. While these white women were heading out on jobs with no experience (affirmative action, which white women continue to hold to highest percentage of affirmative status for) black women lost all those jobs, for they were the ones doing most of the jobs for white women. This destroyed the black community, and soon after the crack epidemic begun. Which evidently led to the destruction of the African American community. The force of the destruction came from the powers that be which were outside of the micro family. And being that most blacks were only 1 or 2 generations at the most from slavery, and most likely taking care of parents from Jim Crow, who were psychologically scared, and especially men who dreams were deferred, a couple generations of black men psychologically wounded, and mentally handicapped, did not, and does not helped the factor. Those dynamics carry's through genes, you can not meet an African American male, who has not been broken by the system, point blank. And as long as he continues to try his best to adapt to a system which was not created in his interest, he will always fail. You have to be a fool to send your children to be educated by whites, or anyone who does not look like them.
Did Europeans not, isolate the Africans they don't like as oddities and not part of the general African mainstream, patronize African scholarship as childish and simplistic, normalize slavery and racism as a human problem thus mitigating their historical domination in racist manipulation. Merge class into race as it suits them, stipulate, while retaining economic and political control, that race is redundant and that Africans are hung up too much on race, while they continue to exercise racism and profit from this exercise, constantly set themselves up as the heroes in African history, cite rare and exotic examples of African behavior, which suits their argument, use character assassination as a tactic of distraction to shift the topic away from the areas that they have no answer for or deliberately obfuscating issues in order just to confuse innocent minds. Hence, they try to show Mugabe's inhumanity in a conversation about European supremacy, or that T Martin and Farrakhan are antisemitic, and labeling of non-mainstream ideas as extreme and radical, which you also perform. You Negros are so confused, that you wouldn't dare to think outside of their authority. Furthermore, you really believe that Eurocentrism is a thing of the past, I can no-longer make responses to your post, for its evident that you are schizophrenic bipolar, which seems to be somethings that is very popular amongst the supporters of multiculturalism.
What does that statement have to do with African Americans being attacked from all angles. Ad hominem. Nevertheless, who stated that Africans were loving and getting along? Your responses are very childish in nature, which clearly show cases your lack of foundation. Furthermore, I really doubt that you're black, or an African American anyway, your entire rhetoric is that of an Uncle Tom syndrome. Blacks have no friends.
Yeah, I've been called racist before; yet, I've found any black man with any sort of consciousness have been labeled such before. Blacks love "whitey" so much, even more so than himself, and he defiantly don't want to rid himself of his women. Failure. You can label me as what ever you want, I know the truth, I see through the bullshit. Picking friends based on "common values" and "personality" is bullshit. When black men take a stand to distance himself from his enemy, and the "others" who think like his enemy that's a "superiority" complex, you on the other hand suffer from an "insecurity complex" minimizing white supremacy at all efforts, and accepting Eurocentricm. You negros are doing just like the wolves who lick the blade trying to eat, yet cuts his tongue while eating and drinking his own blood, thinking he's doing something good, until he kills himself unknowingly; consequence is no coincidence. African American are the only people who love their enemy more than they love themselves.
jibarodepr
2011-03-16, 15:34
Strategically, those involved could careless about what you don't like. Especially noting the factor that the dominate culture of Latin America is of Eurocentric matter. Africans have the right to tell their own history, after countless century's of lies projected on their continent, lies which are still being taught in the educational systems where ever European colonization has taken place. It's also funny that you would also throw out the labels of "ethnocentrism" when Hispanics are the biggest culprit of such ideals. Just as you all continue to project your out of date racial labels on non Hispanic new world populations. And you of all people is the biggest culprit of this.Those lables are good to know exact admixture and percentage, calling a white skinned castizo "white"or a griffe "black"is not accurate, I use it for accuracy, not for racial agendas.I wiould never say I am a light skinned afro-puertorican or light skinned puertorican or white puertorican, I am none of those.Africans have their right to tell thier hisotyr accurately, not how they perceive it to be, like Euros do.
Africans have their right to tell thier hisotyr accurately, not how they perceive it to be, like Euros do.
Exactly. It's not that Africans shouldn't tell their history. It's that they should tell their history accurately. History should not be presented as an exercise in celebration. History is a science and it should be practiced as such.
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-16, 17:40
Those lables are good to know exact admixture and percentage, calling a white skinned castizo "white"or a griffe "black"is not accurate, I use it for accuracy, not for racial agendas.I wiould never say I am a light skinned afro-puertorican or light skinned puertorican or white puertorican, I am none of those.Africans have their right to tell thier hisotyr accurately, not how they perceive it to be, like Euros do.
Bullshit. No Anthropologist uses those labels outside of those who have had contact with Latin America, usually those who are or were culturally raised in that paradigm. However, it still does not excuse the projection "you" people enforce on others, while criticizing Afrocentrisism, while enforcing multiculturalism, ethnocentrism, Hispanicentrism, and Eurocentrism on others, for Hispanic culture is a paradigm of Eurocentrism, whether you like it or not. But what else can we expect from a Puerto Rican who thinks all black Africans are Bantu's even after countless measures were made to correct his "ignorance." Noting the fact that you were "ran" off ES explains your limited understanding to grasp simple ideals. Furthermore, how do you describe accuracy, when you have been taught by the powers that be of a Eurocentric history? You people can't even think outside of European authority, you know nothing of the truth, thats why you question Afrocentrism, because it goes against what you were taught, it reflects your own personal racism.
Anthony Greendown
2011-03-17, 02:27
Well I'm an atheist so a "white" god doesn't mean anything to me. I would reject an African god just as quickly as I would reject a European one. I guess Italian-Americans should be upset over the fact that English is the first language for the vast majority of them as well. Oh wait, that's right, they don't count because they look more like the people who invented English :D. Do you also wear dashikis instead of suits because you feel inferior in the white man's clothing :lol:.
Integrated schools is not what's holding African-Americans back. What's holding African-Americans back the most are the cultural values that have been effecting us ever since we adopted social liberalism as a socio-political philosophy. The societal effects that have been weakening the strength of America as a whole have been effecting our ethnic group the most. The effects I'm speaking of are fatherless homes, high divorce rates, the weakening of the nuclear family as well as the devaluation of education, intellect and industriousness.
Thanks for not mentioning one lie that the white man is telling us in our public schools. Thanks for also not mentioning one historical detail from a "African perspective". I can already smell the BS you would say. I've been there, done that and moved on. Afrocentrism is no different from the Eurocentrism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocentrism) of the past. The only essential difference between Eurocentrism and Afrocentrism is that the former is based on a superiority complex and the latter is based on an inferiority complex.
Also, people of African descent aren't the only people who face discrimination and prejudice from other groups. If you go to Japan, every non-Japanese person faces some amount of prejudice and discrimination. The same goes for China and Korea. Furthermore, there are always divisions inside groups as well as between them. If you think everyone in Africa loves each other because of their "blackness" or that they loved each other before the Europeans got there then you are delusional.
I do have friends and I choose them based on common values and personality over anything else. I also have enemies and people that I choose not associate with. Racists and ethnocentrists are at the top of my list of people not to associate with. You're not a proud Afro-American. You are a racist with an inferiority complex who thinks that it's OK to be that way because you're a victim. Now that I know your character, I will ignore you.
You can ignore what is factual all you want, that's generally what is stated by individuals who are victims of Eurocentrism, anyway. You people have become so adjusted to the way that things are now, that you wouldn't dare to change the structure or threaten the system in anyway. The powers that be have you exactly where they want you to be, completely docile in nature. Atheism is an excuse from individuals who suffer from a devalued intellectual capacity, who have yet you find themselves. So you stating that you're an atheist is not surprising in any regards, whatsoever. Furthermore, Italian American's are Europeans, and thus are Eurocentric by nature, they are biologically given the advantage over those of African decent, for the system was not created for those of African decent to gain any empowerment in it. Africans and Europeans are biologically created different, and the nature of the black is different than that of the white. This western society is not designed for Negros, unless assimilation has taken place, completely.
I smell bullshit. Before any sort of integration, or the Civil Rights movement the black marriage rate was in the 90 percentile, you can not or could not find an African American who was not raised in African American family, without a mother and father. Integration killed the African American community, and if there is any sort of element in African American culture which devalues education, it is a reactionary response to force from other communities and there input in controlling the minds of black children. Black infants already have a higher IQ than their counterparts before they even set foot in any school, that's factual. Once they enter the educational system in which they are no longer the focal point, while the "other" is, while white supremacy is being taught, for it does begin in the school system, they fall behind. I also have sources to back up any and all my statements. The destruction of the black family came about at the end of the civil rights movement, when white women took a stand and stated they wanted to be equal to their men, in which black women came along and stated the same, while failing to realize that black men were not their oppressor. While these white women were heading out on jobs with no experience (affirmative action, which white women continue to hold to highest percentage of affirmative status for) black women lost all those jobs, for they were the ones doing most of the jobs for white women. This destroyed the black community, and soon after the crack epidemic begun. Which evidently led to the destruction of the African American community. The force of the destruction came from the powers that be which were outside of the micro family. And being that most blacks were only 1 or 2 generations at the most from slavery, and most likely taking care of parents from Jim Crow, who were psychologically scared, and especially men who dreams were deferred, a couple generations of black men psychologically wounded, and mentally handicapped, did not, and does not helped the factor. Those dynamics carry's through genes, you can not meet an African American male, who has not been broken by the system, point blank. And as long as he continues to try his best to adapt to a system which was not created in his interest, he will always fail. You have to be a fool to send your children to be educated by whites, or anyone who does not look like them.
Did Europeans not, isolate the Africans they don't like as oddities and not part of the general African mainstream, patronize African scholarship as childish and simplistic, normalize slavery and racism as a human problem thus mitigating their historical domination in racist manipulation. Merge class into race as it suits them, stipulate, while retaining economic and political control, that race is redundant and that Africans are hung up too much on race, while they continue to exercise racism and profit from this exercise, constantly set themselves up as the heroes in African history, cite rare and exotic examples of African behavior, which suits their argument, use character assassination as a tactic of distraction to shift the topic away from the areas that they have no answer for or deliberately obfuscating issues in order just to confuse innocent minds. Hence, they try to show Mugabe's inhumanity in a conversation about European supremacy, or that T Martin and Farrakhan are antisemitic, and labeling of non-mainstream ideas as extreme and radical, which you also perform. You Negros are so confused, that you wouldn't dare to think outside of their authority. Furthermore, you really believe that Eurocentrism is a thing of the past, I can no-longer make responses to your post, for its evident that you are schizophrenic bipolar, which seems to be somethings that is very popular amongst the supporters of multiculturalism.
What does that statement have to do with African Americans being attacked from all angles. Ad hominem. Nevertheless, who stated that Africans were loving and getting along? Your responses are very childish in nature, which clearly show cases your lack of foundation. Furthermore, I really doubt that you're black, or an African American anyway, your entire rhetoric is that of an Uncle Tom syndrome. Blacks have no friends.
Yeah, I've been called racist before; yet, I've found any black man with any sort of consciousness have been labeled such before. Blacks love "whitey" so much, even more so than himself, and he defiantly don't want to rid himself of his women. Failure. You can label me as what ever you want, I know the truth, I see through the bullshit. Picking friends based on "common values" and "personality" is bullshit. When black men take a stand to distance himself from his enemy, and the "others" who think like his enemy that's a "superiority" complex, you on the other hand suffer from an "insecurity complex" minimizing white supremacy at all efforts, and accepting Eurocentricm. You negros are doing just like the wolves who lick the blade trying to eat, yet cuts his tongue while eating and drinking his own blood, thinking he's doing something good, until he kills himself unknowingly; consequence is no coincidence. African American are the only people who love their enemy more than they love themselves.
jibarodepr
2011-03-17, 18:05
Bullshit. No Anthropologist uses those labels outside of those who have had contact with Latin America, usually those who are or were culturally raised in that paradigm. However, it still does not excuse the projection "you" people enforce on others, while criticizing Afrocentrisism, while enforcing multiculturalism, ethnocentrism, Hispanicentrism, and Eurocentrism on others, for Hispanic culture is a paradigm of Eurocentrism, whether you like it or not.Yes, I am in favor of multiculturalism, but no ethnocentrism.
But what else can we expect from a Puerto Rican who thinks all black Africans are Bantu's even after countless measures were made to correct his "ignorance." Noting the fact that you were "ran" off ES explains your limited understanding to grasp simple ideals. Furthermore, how do you describe accuracy, when you have been taught by the powers that be of a Eurocentric history? You people can't even think outside of European authority, you know nothing of the truth, thats why you question Afrocentrism, because it goes against what you were taught, it reflects your own personal racism.I don't think all Africans are Bantu, there are the Khoisan, the Somalis, and the berbers, all African, but not all Bantu.Afrocentrism is ethnocentrism, is the same as Eurocentrism, because both are ethnocentrisms.
What a shocker, Anthony Greendown banned, just like the thread starter.
Actually Bantus are Mixed west African mixed w/ people similar to the above 3 ethnicity depending on where they live...
Also Bantu is not a "race" but a language..
If you want to talk about distinct populations in Africa then, they are
1) West African
-Bantu- making it a sub group since they have within their genepool ancestry that West Africans who did not make the migration don't have... So, a Bantu in East Africa having made the full migration would have West African, Nilotic, Khoisan, Horn of Africa etc etc potentially in their gene pool...
2) Pigmy
3) Khoisan
4) Horn of Africa
-Somali-oid(thinking Somali Oromo etc etc)
-Ethiopia-oid (Thinking of Amhara and Tigre)
5) Sudanic
- Nilotic
- Darfur-oid
- Arab
- combo( in reality what all Sudanese to some extent...
- Chadic(Hausa/Fulani)
6) North African
-Berber
-Arab
- Sudanic
In reality race is a social construct as there are many distinct populations in the world. People classify based on how their society perceives them etc etc...
I thought Afrocentrism was the same as Eurocentrism but told form an African perspective instead of the European. Both are ethnocentrism and I don't like them both.
I agree with you. I don't care how this woman ethnically identifies, but I loathe the baggage that usually accompany these extreme ethnocentric perspectives.
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