Palenqueros or haitians...who looks more bantu?

[Maroon King]

According to the study Oditious posted in another thread, Palenquero is the MOST Bantu based Creole language in existence. Even more so than Haitian Kreyol, because of Haitian Kreyol being also very West African in its African base. Palenquero's African base is 90% Bantu. SO....That makes me ask, who do you think looks more Bantu, PALENQUEROS or HAITIANS?

Videos of Palenqueros:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL520344E0590469C0&feature=view_all

[Spark]

Haitians must have a considerable West African input. Why else would I be related to them? I have sparser Bantu roots according to the tests.

[Maroon King]

Haitians must have a considerable West African input. Why else would I be related to them? I have sparser Bantu roots according to the tests.

I know, and there really hasn't been DNA tests on Palenqueros but their language indicates a possible larger Bantu ancestry than Haitians, who are usually associated with being the most Bantu people in the Americas.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 10:51 ----------


GREAT VIDEO IN PALENQUERO LANGUAGE
http://youtu.be/i7uS7DxBcyg

[LuisaSkis]

What is a palenquero?

[Spark]

What is a palenquero?

It's a specific Afro-Colombian population.

[Maroon King]

What is a palenquero?

I posted a play list of like 20 videos on them. They are Maroons from a Maroon community called SAN BASILIO DE PALENQUE in the Atlantic coast of Colombia.

[Dominicanboy]

According to the study Oditious posted in another thread, Palenquero is the MOST Bantu based Creole language in existence. Even more so than Haitian Kreyol, because of Haitian Kreyol being also very West African in its African base. Palenquero's African base is 90% Bantu. SO....That makes me ask, who do you think looks more Bantu, PALENQUEROS or HAITIANS?

Videos of Palenqueros:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL520344E0590469C0&feature=view_all

Honestly, I dont know what bantu looks are, since bantu is a linguistic category…I don't even know how to navigate this question. I know their language is Spanish Creole, Like Papiamentu is essentially Portuguese creole, but I don't know for sure if it's of significant bantu origin…so idk on this one

[Maroon King]

Honestly, I dont know what bantu looks are, since bantu is a linguistic category…I don't even know how to navigate this question. I know their language is Spanish Creole, Like Papiamentu is essentially Portuguese creole, but I don't know for sure if it's of significant bantu origin…so idk on this one

Papiamentu is essentially Portuguese man...Palenquero is on whole 'nother level of African linguistic creoleness. According to the book excerpt Oditous posted, Palenquero is 90% Bantu within its African base. Any by looking Bantu, I mean looking Central African such as CONGOLESE or ANGOLAN.

[jonboyclem]

Palenqueros. Haitians are very Beninese.

[LuisaSkis]

Great videos. I find it interesting that they have mannerisms similar to other women of the diaspora. I guess some things automatically transcend culture.

The woman speaking in the video, JOVEN PALENQUERA DEFIENDE SUS TRADICIONES, speaks very clearly and I can understand what she's saying. I can't say the same for some other Spanish speaking groups.

How similar are they to Ecuadorians from Esmeraldas?

[Pulaar]

I would say haitians...mainly because of the revolution and the widely held view of mulattos

but language is not really a good indicator of genetics

[Dominicanboy]

Papiamentu is essentially Portuguese man...Palenquero is on whole 'nother level of African linguistic creoleness. According to the book excerpt Oditous posted, Palenquero is 90% Bantu within its African base. Any by looking Bantu, I mean looking Central African such as CONGOLESE or ANGOLAN.

I wouldn't say papiamentu is essentially portuguese. I read an article saying Papiamentu was Palaquero's closest relative. Also where did you hear that Palanquero is 90% bantu? It seems rather mixed, most of its words are of Iberian origin, as is a portion of its grammar the rest of its words are of mainly african origin and some indigenous origin. And its grammar is heavily divergent from Spanish.

[Maroon King]

I would say haitians...mainly because of the revolution and the widely held view of mulattos



I don't really get this statement.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 11:49 ----------


I wouldn't say papiamentu is essentially portuguese. I read an article saying Papiamentu was Palaquero's closest relative. Also where did you hear that Palanquero is 90% bantu? It seems rather mixed, most of its words are of Iberian origin, as is a portion of its grammar the rest of its words are of mainly african origin and some indigenous origin. And its grammar is heavily divergent from Spanish.
I said Palenquero's African base is 90% Bantu. Let me ask you one question though, if it's soo Spanish, how come Spanish speakers CANNOT comprehend it? Why are you saying it's so Spanish and Native influenced? Just because it happens to be in Colombia?

Papiamentu does not have much African words at all in it.

[oditous]

I know, and there really hasn't been DNA tests on Palenqueros but their language indicates a possible larger Bantu ancestry than Haitians, who are usually associated with being the most Bantu people in the Americas.

I think that title should go to black brazilians from southern Brazil (Rio, Minas, Porto Alegre). Biggest african component for Haiti is Congolese indeed (about 50%) but they also have much Benin ancestry (around 25%)! Southern Brazil received much more Bantus (also from Mozambique) relatively. I do think that most Haitians look bantuid though. But sometimes you also see a pheno that´s clearly Beninese influenced like this woman.


http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq247/oditous/album3/73689258_Rp0mT0R2_HaitiPeoplePbaseP.jpg


I´m not really familiar with how Palenqueros look, but judging from the videos they also do look predom. bantuid. However i´ve also seen black cartageneros that look more senegambian influenced. Their creole language might be almost exclusively Bantu-Kikongo influenced for the african part. But i expect their ethnic origins to be more varied. Cartagena did import alot of slaves from Congo and Angola but nearly as many came from Guinea Bissau and later on also Ghana/Benin.

I read this about the palenque of Matudere


One Domingo Padilla, also known as Capitan Domingo Angola, was the acknowledged leader of the nearby and contemporary maroon settlement of Matudere. Some Spanish documents described Domingo as a criollo and state that his father, also named Domingo, was born in Angola. Even if Domingo the younger were American-born, it seems he self-identified as an Angolan. Captain Domingo=s aged father, wife, and young sons lived with him at Matudere and it is possible that like King Benkos, Domingo hoped to establish a dynasty. Although Domingo bore
the title of Capitan, his wife Juana called herself Virreina, and it is possible the couple=s sons may have been destined to inherit leadership at the settlement. Matudere=s fighting forces were led by Mina and Arará war captains with a Congo serving as standard bearer. These assignments reflected the relative demographic strength of the nations at Matudere and this practice may have also operated at San Basilio. When the Spaniards attacked Matudere in 1693, 250 persons were living there, more than 100 of whom were either African-born, or born to African parents. Among the Africans identified by nation were twenty eight Minas, nineteen Ararás, ten Congos, nine Luangos, five Angolas, three Popos, three Wolofs, two Caravalíes, one Bran, one Goyo, and one Biafara.2
link to paper (http://lasa.international.pitt.edu/Lasa2000/Landers.PDF)


Also Domingo Bioho or Benkos who started the San Basilio Palenque is said to have been from Guinea Bissau.

[Maroon King]

Reference




this should be helpful. Taken from parkvall, out of africa: African influences in atlantic creoles. Surinamese creole seems to have retained the biggest number of african words, surprisingly followed by gullah, while haitian creole has even less than jamaican patois apparently.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/ParkvallAfricanLexiconvariousCreoles.jpg

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 11:56 ----------

Palenquero is the MOST BANTU based Afro Creole in the WORLD according to that reference.

[oditous]

Papiamentu is essentially Portuguese man....

:lol: Esther´s not going to agree with you on this...

[Maroon King]

:lol: Esther´s not going to agree with you on this...

15 Afrikan words man? C'MON !!! :whoco:

BTW I told Esther it sounded very Portuguese to me.

BTW can you post your opinion and vote on the topic?

[oditous]

15 Afrikan words man? C'MON !!! :whoco:

African influence in creole languages is not only measured by the amount of words of african origin, but also grammar and pronounciation... Besides that Papiamentu also has much spanish and dutch influences and even some Arawak i think but Esther might know better.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 16:05 ----------


BTW can you post your opinion and vote on the topic?

already done (post 14 ;))

[Dominicanboy]

I don't really get this statement.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 11:49 ----------


I said Palenquero's African base is 90% Bantu. Let me ask you one question though, if it's soo Spanish, how come Spanish speakers CANNOT comprehend it? Why are you saying it's so Spanish and Native influenced? Just because it happens to be in Colombia?

Papiamentu does not have much African words at all in it.

Whoa there… I didn't say it's so spanish , I asked where you got 90% Bantu from, but you said african BASE my bad. However, to answer your comment/question, Haitian French creole for example ,is over 90% of French origin. African words along with Romance languages such as Spanish and Portuguese, and native words, make up like 6% of its vocabulary. Its grammar however is simplified, and a mixture of colonial French grammar and various African Grammar patterns. So you have a language that is primarily of French origin, but strongly influenced by African grammar, and that's why most French speakers wont understand spoken French creole, unless it's very basic. but they don't have a problem reading it. French Canadians CAN understand creole much better than other french speakers.

The same goes for Palanquero, MOST of its vocabulary is Spanish, and its grammar is also Spanish influenced. However, just wondering where you got 90% Bantu base from.. Educate me a bit

[Maroon King]

Whoa there… I didn't say it's so spanish , I asked where you got 90% Bantu from, but you said african BASE my bad. However, to answer your comment/question, Haitian French creole for example ,is over 90% of French origin. African words along with Romance languages such as Spanish and Portuguese, and native words, make up like 6% of its vocabulary. Its grammar however is simplified, and a mixture of colonial French grammar and various African Grammar patterns. So you have a language that is primarily of French origin, but strongly influenced by African grammar, and that's why most French speakers wont understand spoken French creole, unless it's very basic. but they don't have a problem reading it. French Canadians CAN understand creole much better than other french speakers.

The same goes for Palanquero, MOST of its vocabulary is Spanish, and its grammar is also Spanish influenced. However, just wondering where you got 90% Bantu base from.. Educate me a bit

Again, I said the African base of Palenquero is 92% Bantu. There's no study that has quantified how Spanish or African it is, but I tell you that Spanish speakers do not comprehend it. How are you so familiar with Palenquero, saying most its vocabulary is Spanish? If that were the case we would comprehend it more. I've had Palenquero spoken in my face by Palenqueros and I ain't pick up any Spanish vocab but one or two words. They have many African words like BOTROKOLO. Go try finding that in a Spanish dictionary.

Palenquero is harder for a Spanish speaker to pick up on than it is for an English speaker to pick up on Jamaican Patwa and Jamaican Patwa has over 200 identified African words.

Also, I've actually had Haitians tell me that they don't believe there's African words in Haitian Kreyol and that Haitian Kreyol is just French+ slang.

I can DEFINITELY assure you Palenquero is not Spanish + slang nor just Spanish spoken with an African accent because my region in Colombia is the blackest region of the country, and we speak Spanish with an African accent but there's no actual language we know of like Palenquero. Other AfroColombians and Afro Spanish speakers like AfroCubans would not be able to overstand ("under"stand) Palenquero.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 13:18 ----------


African influence in creole languages is not only measured by the amount of words of african origin, but also grammar and pronounciation... Besides that Papiamentu also has much spanish and dutch influences and even some Arawak i think but Esther might know better.

I know but Papiamentu is intelligible unlike Palenquero.

[Dominicanboy]

Again, I said the African base of Palenquero is 92% Bantu. There's no study that has quantified how Spanish or African it is, but I tell you that Spanish speakers do not comprehend it. How are you so familiar with Palenquero, saying most its vocabulary is Spanish? If that were the case we would comprehend it more. I've had Palenquero spoken in my face by Palenqueros and I ain't pick up any Spanish vocab but one or two words. They have many African words like BOTROKOLO. Go try finding that in a Spanish dictionary.

Palenquero is harder for a Spanish speaker to pick up on than it is for an English speaker to pick up on Jamaican Patwa and Jamaican Patwa has over 200 identified African words.

Also, I've actually had Haitians tell me that they don't believe there's African words in Haitian Kreyol and that Haitian Kreyol is just French+ slang.

I can DEFINITELY assure you Palenquero is not Spanish + slang nor just Spanish spoken with an African accent because my region in Colombia is the blackest region of the country, as we speak Spanish with an African accent but there's no actual language we know of like Palenquero.

I Never said Palanquero is Spanish spoken with an African accent. Grammar is not about the accent as much as it is about the overall lexicon, like order of words, conjugation etc.
Most French folk from France will swear that Haitians barely say any French words. However, Haitian creole vocabulary is over 90% French. Something as simple as pronunciation of words DRASTICALLY changes perception. Haitian creole is NOT French slang, French slang is in France, go there to hear it. So, those Haitians were being a bit misleading.

Southern American slang (or creolized) English
Wuh Hanen Shauw-tee

Sho no ha ta git it

Sheena uppa room nah

^^^ To quite a few English speakers, even in the U.S, this would be unintelligible, even in person. I'm guessing you didn't GROW up hearing Palanquero all around you, which would make it even harder for you to pick up Spanish words that have changed in pronounciation, been abbreviated, altered etc.

KRIO (Sierra Leone)
If eem Bodee wam, make una give dee pikin small small one you hee-eh ee"

Nigerian pidgin
"Sabi he no rest if eem belle de turn so"

^^^ People would swear up and down NO English is being spoken^^^

[Maroon King]

I Never said Palanquero is Spanish spoken with an African accent. Grammar is not about the accent as much as it is about the overall lexicon, like order of words, conjugation etc.
Most French folk from France will swear that Haitians barely say any French words. However, Haitian creole vocabulary is over 90% French. Something as simple as pronunciation of words DRASTICALLY changes perception. Haitian creole is NOT French slang, French slang is in France, go there to hear it. So, those Haitians were being a bit misleading.

Southern American slang (or creolized) English
Wuh Hanen Shauw-tee

Sho no ha ta git it

Sheena uppa room nah

^^^ To quite a few English speakers, even in the U.S, this would be unintelligible, even in person. I'm guessing you didn't GROW up hearing Palanquero all around you, which would make it even harder for you to pick up Spanish words that have changed in pronounciation, been abbreviated, altered etc.

KRIO (Sierra Leone)
If eem Bodee wam, make una give dee pikin small small one you hee-eh ee"

Nigerian pidgin
"Sabi he no rest if eem belle de turn so"

^^^ People would swear up and down NO English is being spoken^^^

I have family from the same region of Palenqueros, on the Atlantic coast and they do not overstand them neither. Palenqueros live in Cartagena and Barranquilla and I have cousins from both cities. Again, I repeat they do not overstand the language. It isn't like Nigerian Pidgin :whoco:

[Dominicanboy]

I have family from the same region of Palenqueros, on the Atlantic coast and they do not overstand them neither. Palenqueros live in Cartagena and Barranquilla and I have cousins from both cities. Again, I repeat they do not overstand the language. It isn't like Nigerian Pidgin :whoco:

Ok Maroon, think about this critically. I never said it was the SAME as Nigerian Pidgin. However, even in terms of linguistic classification, Palanquero is a CREOLE. Like Nigerian Pidgin, French creole, Portuguese creole etc. So, it has similar characteristics.

Now unless your family speaks Palanquero, interacts with people speaking Palanquero to them Daily, then it would be rather difficult for them to understand it because pronunciation alone has changed, not to mention the vocabulary, as well as grammar has influences standard Spanish does not. Despite this, since it's a Spanish creole language, especially one of the Americas, it's vocabulary is likely MOSTLY Spanish, and grammar, partially Spanish in origin, other wise it would be like English--- a Germanic language with mostly latin vocabulary and germanic Lexicon


PS:There are many languages with significant input from other languages. Hausa is 1/4 Arabic in it's vocab, Swahilli has a very Arabic Influenced vocab, however none of those are creoles….just sayin'

[Maroon King]

Ok Maroon, think about this critically. I never said it was the SAME as Nigerian Pidgin. However, even in terms of linguistic classification, Palanquero is a CREOLE. Like Nigerian Pidgin, French creole, Portuguese creole etc. So, it has similar characteristics.

Now unless your family speaks Palanquero, interacts with people speaking Palanquero to them Daily, then it would be rather difficult for them to understand it because pronunciation alone has changed, not to mention the vocabulary, as well as grammar has influences standard Spanish does not. Despite this, since it's a Spanish creole language, especially one of the Americas, it's vocabulary is likely MOSTLY Spanish, and grammar, partially Spanish in origin, other wise it would be like English--- a language with mostly latin vocabulary and germanic


PS:There are many languages with significant input from other languages. Hausa is 1/4 Arabic in it's vocab, Swahilli has a very Arabic Influenced vocab, however none of those are creoles….just sayin'


It's in no way, shape or form pronunciation. If anything, that's what is actually similar to the way other coastal Colombians speak, the pronunciation we share with Palenqueros. The pronunciation is what actually sounds most Spanish. It's like their speaking an African language with Spanish pronunciation. Palenqueros are usually street vendors on the streets of Barranquilla and Cartagena so everyone interacts with them but they do not speak Palenquero to non-Palenqueros because no one would overstand. It's not like Spanish Pidgin. White Haitians and White Jamaicans can comprehend their countries' creoles but not even other Black Colombians would overstand Palenquero. Why? Because Colombia is that vastly different, there are many regions who were isolated since colonial days and Palenque was one of them. You are going off assumption of other creole languages but first of all you've never met a Palenquero and you're not even a Spanish speaker. Did you even check out the video narrated completely in Palenkero?

http://youtu.be/i7uS7DxBcyg

[El Andullero]

Most French folk from France will swear that Haitians barely say any French words. However, Haitian creole vocabulary is over 90% French. Something as simple as pronunciation of words DRASTICALLY changes perception. Haitian creole is NOT French slang, French slang is in France, go there to hear it. So, those Haitians were being a bit misleading.



Maybe the reason for the French saying such is the fact that the Haitian Kreyol is mostly based of the Breton and Norman dialects spoken during the Ancien Regime, while Parisian French is pretty much the standard nowadays.

[Dominicanboy]

Maybe the reason for the French saying such is the fact that the Haitian Kreyol is mostly based of the Breton and Norman dialects spoken during the Ancien Regime, while Parisian French is pretty much the standard nowadays.

Yeah I covered this in an earlier post

[El Andullero]

Yeah I covered this in an earlier post

The most tragic irony of the French Revolution is that, while preaching about "Liberté, Equalité et Fraternité" it would be more absolute than the monarchy on its dealing with that country's particular dialects, as in, more intolerant and demanding of obedience to a common linguistic denominator.

[LuisaSkis]

reference



---------- post added 2012-06-16 at 11:56 ----------

palenquero is the most bantu based afro creole in the world according to that reference.

what is the origin of kwa?

[stala]

There is a lot more to language than just words. Syntax is just as if not more important as it's the "soul" of the language.
By the way a Portuguese person would never be able to hold a conversation with someone speaking Papiamanto, not in this life-time atleast.

[jibarodepr]

Interesting that there are Afro-diasporans who still speak their ancestor's language and not only dialects of it.

[stala]

It's in no way, shape or form pronunciation. If anything, that's what is actually similar to the way other coastal Colombians speak, the pronunciation we share with Palenqueros. The pronunciation is what actually sounds most Spanish. It's like their speaking an African language with Spanish pronunciation. Palenqueros are usually street vendors on the streets of Barranquilla and Cartagena so everyone interacts with them but they do not speak Palenquero to non-Palenqueros because no one would overstand. It's not like Spanish Pidgin. White Haitians and White Jamaicans can comprehend their countries' creoles but not even other Black Colombians would overstand Palenquero. Why? Because Colombia is that vastly different, there are many regions who were isolated since colonial days and Palenque was one of them. You are going off assumption of other creole languages but first of all you've never met a Palenquero and you're not even a Spanish speaker. Did you even check out the video narrated completely in Palenkero?

http://youtu.be/i7uS7DxBcyg

I've read that there are less than 3000 Palenkero speakers left?

[Dominicanboy]

It's in no way, shape or form pronunciation. If anything, that's what is actually similar to the way other coastal Colombians speak, the pronunciation we share with Palenqueros. The pronunciation is what actually sounds most Spanish. It's like their speaking an African language with Spanish pronunciation. Palenqueros are usually street vendors on the streets of Barranquilla and Cartagena so everyone interacts with them but they do not speak Palenquero to non-Palenqueros because no one would overstand. It's not like Spanish Pidgin. White Haitians and White Jamaicans can comprehend their countries' creoles but not even other Black Colombians would overstand Palenquero. Why? Because Colombia is that vastly different, there are many regions who were isolated since colonial days and Palenque was one of them. You are going off assumption of other creole languages but first of all you've never met a Palenquero and you're not even a Spanish speaker. Did you even check out the video narrated completely in Palenkero?

http://youtu.be/i7uS7DxBcyg

Um Maroon, of course white Haitians and Jamaicans can comprehend their country's creoles, Everyone in their Country Speaks Creole. however not everyone speaks Palanquero. I dont have to be a Spanish speaker, plus I grew up hearing SPANISH my entire life, lol If not from my pops then from my friends, I think thats a bit Different than YOU and palanquero.

i never said palanquero wasn't Spanish sounding, I said Pronunciation (of any language) CAN change ones perception, to simply point out that it doesn't take very much before intelligibility starts to drop. I asserted that Palanquero because it's a creole and not Martian, likely follows the same patterns as other creoles.

Ps: please don't insult my intelligence, I have done a bit of research on Palanquero, and known about it for years. I didn't say YOU didn't know anything about it's bantu influences because you weren't a Bantu speaker…lol

[jibarodepr]

^I would like to see you practicing your Spanish posting on the Spanish forum. ;)

[Dominicanboy]

^I would like to see you practicing your Spanish psoting on the Spanish forum. ;)

Why would I be "practicing" a language i don't speak? Lol ..that was random

[jibarodepr]

Why would I be "practicing" a language i don't speak? Lol ..that was randomSo you only understand it but don't speak it right?

[chicken]

wow I read about their history. Has any DNA testing been done on Afro-Colombians?

The language Palenquero was influenced by the Kikongo language of Congo and Angola, and also by Portuguese, the language of the slave traders who brought African slaves to South America in the 17th century.[3] Exact information on the different roots of Palenquero is still lacking, and there are different theories of it´s origin. Today fewer than half of the community’s 3,000 residents still speak Palenquero.[3]

[Dominicanboy]

So you only understand it but don't speak it right?

Why do you think i can understand Spanish? Cant speak it, Cant really understand spoken Spanish either.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 14:57 ----------


wow I read about their history. Has any DNA testing been done on Afro-Colombians?

The language Palenquero was influenced by the Kikongo language of Congo and Angola, and also by Portuguese, the language of the slave traders who brought African slaves to South America in the 17th century.[3] Exact information on the different roots of Palenquero is still lacking, and there are different theories of it´s origin. Today fewer than half of the community’s 3,000 residents still speak Palenquero.[3]

Yep, many linguists believe Palanquero like most Atlantic creoles is derived from an older coastal west African creole. it is believed by some linguists that Palanquero, came from a portuguese creole, since Spain was banned from West Africa at the time.


Which when you think about it, would make sense, get the slaves who already speak a language closer to what you speak, it would take less time to teach them.

[jibarodepr]

Why do you think i can understand Spanish? Cant speak it, Cant really understand spoken Spanish either.Becuae you heard it?There was a possibility of you learning it by hearing it

[Dominicanboy]

Becuae you heard it?There was a possibility of you learning it by hearing it

Very true but my family spoke like 7 languages frequently, but only english was the one everyone knew, and the one we spoke the most, as my parents come from English speaking (partially) countries. I spoke some french as a child but lost almost all of it.

I am often told by Spanish speakers if Im reading Spanish text, "oh wow you dont have an accent" as in Im prounouncing all the words naturally. Mind you my dad spoke Spanish very fast, like a dominican, I know he got his Spanish from Puerto Rico as a teen (and he is pretty old now like not too long after world war 1 old lol), but he sounds like a Dominican (form the republic)

Its sad but true i only speak enlglish fluently. However since i have a decent size latin word bank for someone who doesnt speak any other languages but English really. i often talk to my sister and some romance speaking friends in text like this…………...



hey, je ere voy a mon casa en cinc minutos, Je pued tien la cuisina con me si tu gutsa"

or je manjer pwason, y beber coka en la noche

[jibarodepr]

Very true but my family spoke like 7 languages frequently, but only english was the one everyone knew, and the one we spoke the most, as my parents come from English speaking (partially) countries. I spoke some french as a child but lost almost all of it.

I am always told by spanish speakers if Im reading spanish text, "oh wow you dont have an accent" as in Im prounouncing all the words naturally.

Its sad but true i only speak enlglish fluently. However since i have a decent size latin word bank for someone who doesnt speak any other languages but English really. i often talk to my sister and some romance speaking friends in text like this…………...



hey, je ere voy a mon casa en cinc minutos, Je pued tien la cuisina con me si tu gutsa"

or je manjer pwason, y beber coka en la nocheYour dialect seems like a mix of Spanish and French.

[Dominicanboy]

Your dialect seems like a mix of Spanish and French.

ah si pero Je pued solo esrcib Le Lange, je no pued habla se, Je mescla romantica Lingua con la "syntax" de englais, je voy ante y poste de Francais y espanol…como Je o yo. Espero que tu Comprede

[chicken]

Why do you think i can understand Spanish? Cant speak it, Cant really understand spoken Spanish either.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 14:57 ----------



Yep, many linguists believe Palanquero like most Atlantic creoles is derived from an older coastal west African creole. it is believed by some linguists that Palanquero, came from a portuguese creole, since Spain was banned from West Africa at the time.


Which when you think about it, would make sense, get the slaves who already speak a language closer to what you speak, it would take less time to teach them.

I never realized there were so many African diaspora that maintained their culture in Latin America. I hope their situation improves. Their history is similar to that of the Haitians (basically they won their freedom and thus were able to maintain their culture to a greater degree). They won their freedom before Haiti in the 1700's..really interesting group.

[jibarodepr]

ah si pero Je pued solo esrcib Le Lange, je no pued habla se, Je mescla romantica Lingua con la "syntax" de englais, je voy ante y poste de Francais y espanol…como Je o yo. Espero que tu CompredeYes, got it.

[Dominicanboy]

Yes, got it.

Good I was like I wonder if he wont get it….lol. But i think I could easily learn spanish, its the easiest for me to read. I just need to focus and put in a good year to be fluent…I really am glad you could understand.

[Maroon King]

I've read that there are less than 3000 Palenkero speakers left?

True

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 15:58 ----------


wow I read about their history. Has any DNA testing been done on Afro-Colombians?

The language Palenquero was influenced by the Kikongo language of Congo and Angola, and also by Portuguese, the language of the slave traders who brought African slaves to South America in the 17th century.[3] Exact information on the different roots of Palenquero is still lacking, and there are different theories of it´s origin. Today fewer than half of the community’s 3,000 residents still speak Palenquero.[3]

Yes, there has been DNA tests done on AfroColombians but I haven't seen one done on a Palenquero.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 15:59 ----------


ah si pero Je pued solo esrcib Le Lange, je no pued habla se, Je mescla romantica Lingua con la "syntax" de englais, je voy ante y poste de Francais y espanol…como Je o yo. Espero que tu Comprede

Your dialect is WAY more Spanish and Portuguese than Palenquero is.

[chicken]

True

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 15:58 ----------



Yes, there has been DNA tests done on AfroColombians but I haven't seen one done on a Palenquero.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 15:59 ----------





Your dialect is WAY more Spanish and Portuguese than Palenquero is.

What did the DNA tests show?

[Maroon King]

What did the DNA tests show?

Chocoanos were predominantly African with some Native and European. My AfroColombian friend from Choco is directly Indigenous mixed through his grandparents so he was 24% Native, like 12% Euro and the rest African.

[chicken]

Chocoanos were predominantly African with some Native and European. My AfroColombian friend from Choco is directly Indigenous mixed through his grandparents so he was 24% Native, like 12% Euro and the rest African.

What part of Africa?

[Maroon King]

What part of Africa?

We're a mix of West African, Central African and Southeast African.

[stala]

What's the name of the dance in the link you sent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTQ1Z0A2WZo&list=PL520344E0590469C0&index=3&feature=plpp_video

It's pretty common in Luso-Africa...taracha or sariga

[Maroon King]

What's the name of the dance in the link you sent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTQ1Z0A2WZo&list=PL520344E0590469C0&index=3&feature=plpp_video

It's pretty common in Luso-Africa...taracha or sariga

That's Champeta music and that's how they dance Champeta.

[stala]

They look like standard NWA mixed....i see lots of south africa, but I also see West Africa and Central. I think they are pretty standard....I don't think I can tell them apart from Haitians.

[beyoku]

Haitians look way to inbred to look Bantu, IMO.

[stala]

Haitians look way to inbred to look Bantu, IMO.

How so? Batus cannot enbreed:lol:?

[Pulaar]

I don't really get this statement.

---------- Post added 2012-06-16 at 11:49 ----------


I said Palenquero's African base is 90% Bantu. Let me ask you one question though, if it's soo Spanish, how come Spanish speakers CANNOT comprehend it? Why are you saying it's so Spanish and Native influenced? Just because it happens to be in Colombia?

Papiamentu does not have much African words at all in it.

Less admixture i guess

[Maroon King]

Less admixture i guess

Yes, Palenqueros have less admixture than Haitians. Haitians are more Euro admixed on average.

[Game Theory]

Palenquero