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Hweinlant
2012-09-21, 17:13
This thread is inspited by Woj's thread (http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/37347-Cavalli-Sforza-s-PCs-of-genetic-variation-in-Europe-vs-autosomal-components) about Cavalli-Sforzas PCA maps. I made a staggering found when testing a hypothesis about C-S PC2 map ("Uralic") component. It seems that mesolithic Iberians were very Siberian or atleast the calculators substitute the mesolithic Iberian with Siberian.

To my surprise I found out that more than half of my Dodecad and Eurogenes predicted "Siberianity" fell directly into Mesolithic-North-Euro cluster crafted by our fellow forumite and MDLP executive, Vadim Verenich. The Name of the cluster is slightly misleading in historical context as it is infact based on the alleles of two mesolithic samples from Iberian peninsula. To be more specific they are from La Braña-Arintero site in León (Northwestern Spain). Mtdna of both samples is U5b2c1.

Allele peak in modern populations occures in Saami and Finns.

I score steady around 8% of various Siberian/North Asian clusters throught out the Dodecad 9 and 12b, aswell as Eurogenes 9 and 13.

When VV added the mesolithic Iberians as one the references for his MDLP 22 calculator my Siberian figures drop into half. The new cluster, Mesolithic-North-European seem to suck them right in.

So do the calculators actually substitute mesolithic European (West Eurasian) alleles with Siberian for some technical reason or were the mesolithic Iberians actually pretty darn Siberian-like ?

Here is the data:



Eurogenes 9 and 13

Population
South Asian -
Caucasus -
Southwest Asian 0.62%
North Amerindian + Arctic 0.33%
Siberian 7.62%
Mediterranean 8.96%
East Asian -
West African 0.33%
North European 82.15%

Population
North European 66.29%
West African 0.11%
Mediterranean 16.37%
Northeast African 0.63%
North Eurasian 6.03%
South Asian 0.33%
Southwest Asian 3.37%
Pygmy -
Caucasus 3.60%
East Siberian 2.15%
East Asian -
Amerindian 0.27%
West Central Asian 0.79%




Dodecad 9 and 12b

Population
Amerindian 0.79%
East_Asian -
African -
Atlantic_Baltic 77.81%
Australasian 0.30%
Siberian 7.81%
Caucasus_Gedrosia 9.88%
Southern 3.12%
South_Asian 0.29%

Population
Gedrosia 3.13%
Siberian 6.54%
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 20.90%
North_European 63.05%
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 1.68%
East_Asian 0.62%
Caucasus 4.08%
Sub_Saharan -




Population
Pygmy -
West-Asian 1.44%
North-European-Mesolithic 16.66%
Indo-Tibetan -
Mesoamerican -
Arctic-Amerind 0.06%
South-America_Amerind -
Indian 0.22%
North-Siberean 1.60%
Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 18.46%
Samoedic 0.47%
Indo-Iranian 0.51%
East-Siberean 1.20%
North-East-European 58.10%
South-African -
North-Amerind -
Sub-Saharian -
East-South-Asian -
Near_East -
Melanesian -
Paleo-Siberian 0.68%
Austronesian 0.60%

JAX
2012-09-21, 17:40
Yes you bring up an excellent point and make some good observations about this. I have noticed the same thing happen with my own results. As I said in the other thread about Cavalli-Sforza's components.

''Hweinlant has made an excellent point and observation about the North-European-Mesolithic component absorbing Siberian like affinity in Europeans. I generally tend to score around 1.5-2% Siberian in most ADMIXTURE tests from Dienekes and Polako. My highest ever was 3% in Dodecad V3. Anyways I know these SIberian scores come from my paternal side grandmother who was Finnish as I have also had my father, mother and paternal grandfather tested and only my father and myself show any positive Siberian scores which we both seem to have inherited form her. Now on Vadim's World-22 analysis out Siberian scores pretty much disappear while we both get fairly high North-European-Mesolithic scores. It certainly seems that the North-European-Mesolithic component has absorbed our previous Siberian scores almost totally. This makes sense though given that we know the North-European-Mesolithic component is Asian shifted.''

Hweinlant
2012-09-21, 18:00
Biggest mind twister here imo is that alleles that form the North-European-Mesolithic are infact Southwest-European-Mesolithic. They just happend to peak at Northern European modern populations. The actual living breathing mesolithic persons lived in totally opposite side of Europe than were the modern peak is.

Do any of the Iberian members score a) North-European-Mesolithic at MDLP 22 calculator or b) Any Siberian-like component at any other calculator ?

Question I have in mind atm is: Did these alleles "walk" from Iberia to North (as in did the mix originate there and later expanded to Northern Europe), or were these alleles present at very wide area at Eurasia and are now only to be found at North ?

Following this thought it might be that actually the Siberians have these "old alleles" aswell and thus the calculators with no mesolithic-Iberian references predicts that the alleles belongs to them.

Wojewoda
2012-09-21, 19:21
Lol at (s)Iberians. :)

JAX
2012-09-21, 21:09
Biggest mind twister here imo is that alleles that form the North-European-Mesolithic are infact Southwest-European-Mesolithic. They just happend to peak at Northern European modern populations. The actual living breathing mesolithic persons lived in totally opposite side of Europe than were the modern peak is.

Do any of the Iberian members score a) North-European-Mesolithic at MDLP 22 calculator or b) Any Siberian-like component at any other calculator ?

Question I have in mind atm is: Did these alleles "walk" from Iberia to North (as in did the mix originate there and later expanded to Northern Europe), or were these alleles present at very wide area at Eurasia and are now only to be found at North ?

Following this thought it might be that actually the Siberians have these "old alleles" aswell and thus the calculators with no mesolithic-Iberian references predicts that the alleles belongs to them.

They are not necessarily just Southwest-European-Mesolithic. This so called Northern-European-Mesolithic component was probably very prominent and common all over Europe during the Mesolithic period. We see that it peaks in the La Brana individuals but I am sure that the Gotland hunter-gatherers from the Baltic had a lot of it too.

I would say that most likely these alleles were present all over Europe and into Siberia during the Mesolithic. Today they just happen to survive best in the far north where the ethnic groups such as the Saami and Finns have been less influenced by the Neolithic peoples who came to occupy the rest of Europe.

Hweinlant
2012-09-21, 22:01
I would say that most likely these alleles were present all over Europe and into Siberia during the Mesolithic. Today they just happen to survive best in the far north where the ethnic groups such as the Saami and Finns have been less influenced by the Neolithic peoples who came to occupy the rest of Europe.

I think there are two possible models for this.

Model 1: The Narrow genetic homeland

This model assumes that the "ancestral mix" which became the Meso-North-Euro originated somewhere near the French-Spanish border. Influences which made it, became from all over the place. This stable mix then spread via migrations towards north and even through Siberia all the way to Americas. This would mean that the timeframe is rather Late Paleolithic than Mesolithic. This model resembles the proposed Franco-Cantabrian refugium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Cantabrian_region) expansion model from Late Glacial Maximum. Circles represent drop-off-points for genes.

It's pretty much the same that has been proposed for haplogroup R1b, before the age and spread models of the HG were brought closer to modern day (even to Bronze age lately).

http://i47.tinypic.com/20h09le.jpg

Model 2: Wide genetic homeland:

This model assumes wide spread of allele-set where the Southwest-Europe is the last point of expansion. The red arrows represent the Neolithic east and west eurasian expansions. Wide-region-mesolithic alleles would only survive in remote corners of Eurasia. Basically in areas where neither cereal or rice farming was possible until recently or not at all.

http://i47.tinypic.com/35kvk88.jpg

Imo the model 2 is more likely. If the model 2 is correct it will also have affect to ADMIXTURE interpretation. Siberian figures should not be considered as admixture but rather as shared co-ancestry. Not as Siberians moving to Europe and influencing the allready existing populations. This is really rather a chronology issue. Infact the neolithic influence should be seen as admixture, in traditional pov. Another point is that the ADMIXTURE and STRUCTURE alike seem to give ownership of these alleles to modern Siberians, which might indicate that they infact do have larger presence of these alleles, or that the sample-size (weight in algorithmic prediction) is heavily biased towards more Neolithic West and East Eurasians (example: Sardinians and Han-Chinese).

JAX
2012-09-21, 22:28
^Personally I think that model 2 is much more likely. These alleles were probably very widespread during the Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic from Iberia across Europe and into Siberia. They happened to survive best in areas where farming was not possible or did not arrive until very late. In most areas of Europe this component was replaced by Neolithic farmers.

Now the strange thing about this is why do Lithuanians have so little of this component when the east Baltic area is considered by many to be a ''refuge'' type area for old Mesolithic European genes?

Hweinlant
2012-09-21, 22:33
Now the strange thing about this is why do Lithuanians have so little of this component when the east Baltic area is considered by many to be a ''refuge'' type area for old Mesolithic European genes?

Imo there is something very strange in academic Lithuanian samples. They are from "one village in a small province" or something like that. When put into ADMIXTURE it's like comparing a family with a continent of people. Something like that (edit: Sardinian samples are like that too, not good).

JAX
2012-09-21, 23:42
^I suppose that is a possibility. It would be nice to see the results from the MDLP World-22 calculator on GEDmatch for the Lithuanians here on these forums to see how they score for North-European-Mesolithic.

I managed to find an Iberian's results who posts on these forums for the component we are talking about here. He scored only 1.71%.

I just found another Iberian as well. Only 0.18%. So it seems clear this component is not strong in Iberia at all.

Vetton
2012-09-21, 23:50
^I suppose that is a possibility. It would be nice to see the results from the MDLP World-22 calculator on GEDmatch for the Lithuanians here on these forums to see how they score for North-European-Mesolithic.

I managed to find an Iberian's results who posts on these forums for the component we are talking about here. He scored only 1.71%.
Outside of Saamis and Finns, no europeans score high on this component...Estonians average 7%, Scandinavians about 10%

PD : For example the spanish average (1.8%) is the same as that of Belarussians and higher than Ukranians, Russians, Slovenians..

linkus
2012-09-21, 23:53
Imo there is something very strange in academic Lithuanian samples. They are from "one village in a small province" or something like that. When put into ADMIXTURE it's like comparing a family with a continent of people. Something like that (edit: Sardinian samples are like that too, not good).
They most certainly aren't "one village in a small province" or anything of the sorts. Unless of course you consider Lithuania as a whole to be just "one small village".

As a matter of fact, Lithuanian academic reference samples from Behar are very varied and representative. As of now there are 5 regionally specific participants in Eurogenes from all four major ethnographic regions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_Lithuania) (1 Samogitian, 1 Aukstaitian, 1 Sudovian, 2 Dzukians) and they all fit within the variation of Behar samples. Only samples from right beside the seaside are lacking. However, there are some seaside people at 23andme, so I do have an idea what they would turn out like.

Our soaring homozygosity rates have nothing to do with actual recent relatedness, so we are nothing like Sardinians, see this post of mine (http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/28618-Eurogenes-v2?p=990904&viewfull=1#post990904).

Also, the "supermatchiness" effect in IBS comparison was by no means limited to just Eastern Europe and neither are our IBD segments.

JAX
2012-09-22, 00:11
^It is quite strange that Russians, Belorussians and Ukrainians score so low in this component.

---------- Post Merged at 19:11 ----------


They most certainly aren't "one village in a small province" or anything of the sorts. Unless of course you consider Lithuania as a whole to be just "one small village".

As a matter of fact, Lithuanian academic reference samples from Behar are very varied and representative. As of now there are 5 regionally specific participants in Eurogenes from all four major ethnographic regions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_Lithuania) (1 Samogitian, 1 Aukstaitian, 1 Sudovian, 2 Dzukians) and they all fit within the variation of Behar samples. Only samples from right beside the seaside are lacking. However, there are some seaside people at 23andme, so I do have an idea what they would turn out like.

Our soaring homozygosity rates have nothing to do with actual recent relatedness, so we are nothing like Sardinians, see this post of mine (http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/28618-Eurogenes-v2?p=990904&viewfull=1#post990904).

Also, the "supermatchiness" effect in IBS comparison was by no means limited to just Eastern Europe and neither are our IBD segments.

Linkus have you run your own results through the MDLp World-22 calculator on GEDmatch yet?

linkus
2012-09-22, 00:47
Linkus have you run your own results through the MDLp World-22 calculator on GEDmatch yet?
Not yet. Vadim already posted country averages for this calculator publicly for everybody to see in the MDLP thread (Lithuanian average score was also included), so I didn't see any point running it manually all over again.


Also, various Vadim's runs (http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/32935-%C3%96tzi-and-Swedish-neolithic-hunter-gatherers-and-farmers) yielded rather.. diverse results, ranging from:
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/5521/huntersadmixture.png

to:
http://imageshack.us/a/img255/6721/huntergather.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img96/9375/huntergatherer.png

So, I wasn't quite sure what to think of them all.

JAX
2012-09-22, 01:28
^Have you tested at 23andme? Do you have a GEDmatch account if you did?

I also noticed that his runs/analysis changed several times. Seems a bit strange but maybe he was ''adjusting'' things a bit until he reached a conclusion at World-22?

nuadha
2012-09-22, 07:39
Not yet. Vadim already posted country averages for this calculator publicly for everybody to see in the MDLP thread (Lithuanian average score was also included), so I didn't see any point running it manually all over again.


Also, various Vadim's runs (http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/32935-%C3%96tzi-and-Swedish-neolithic-hunter-gatherers-and-farmers) yielded rather.. diverse results, ranging from:
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/5521/huntersadmixture.png

to:
http://imageshack.us/a/img255/6721/huntergather.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img96/9375/huntergatherer.png

So, I wasn't quite sure what to think of them all.

Both mesolithic 'branas' are very "neolithic". So then, what is neolithic?

Lemminkäinen
2012-09-22, 07:49
Outside of Saamis and Finns, no europeans score high on this component...Estonians average 7%, Scandinavians about 10%

PD : For example the spanish average (1.8%) is the same as that of Belarussians and higher than Ukranians, Russians, Slovenians..

There is obvious continuum in Finland too. This 23% in Finland is the MDLP-22 maximum, although VV obviously manifests it like a typical number for Finns. I have it about 15% and there is many lower results too. So the continuum to Scandinavia is reality, and I assume that also to Estonia. I suggest that Estonian samples are not representative, the same we can say about Finnish samples the real number varying from 12-14 to 23.

Hweinlant
2012-09-22, 12:19
Neolithic replacement model:
http://i47.tinypic.com/35kvk88.jpg


Loxias map about N.E.M
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-h5ExU3K6jw8/UFtLKlMOeLI/AAAAAAAAD2g/-3PXcdFPnmI/s1600/mdlpmesolithic.jpg

Where can I find the population averages for this component ? Someone mentioned that VV has posted it somewhere ?

JAX
2012-09-22, 13:05
Both mesolithic 'branas' are very "neolithic". So then, what is neolithic?

They were Neolithic in his first runs but then suddenly changed to being very Mesolithic in his latest run. I don't really know how that happened?

Hweinlant
2012-09-22, 19:07
There is obvious continuum in Finland too. This 23% in Finland is the MDLP-22 maximum, although VV obviously manifests it like a typical number for Finns. I have it about 15% and there is many lower results too. So the continuum to Scandinavia is reality, and I assume that also to Estonia. I suggest that Estonian samples are not representative, the same we can say about Finnish samples the real number varying from 12-14 to 23.

I have it at 16.6%. Those scores above 20% must come from people with recent Saami ancestry.

Pallantides
2012-09-22, 19:12
I have it at 16.6%.

I only have it at 7.30%, I'm not worthy living in the North:sadcry:

Maybe I should move to E-stonia:

Estonians average 7%

Hweinlant
2012-09-22, 21:51
I only have it at 7.30%, I'm not worthy living in the North:sadcry:


Nope, you have to return your Norwegian-badge and pistol at the office first thing monday morning. Figures of below the 10% threshold can not be accepted!1!

Anyone know where the population averages for N.E.M component are ?

I'm especially interested about Lithuanian and Polish averages. Scandinavians score around 8% apparently, Finns double that and Saami.. who knows.

JAX
2012-09-23, 01:13
Nope, you have to return your Norwegian-badge and pistol at the office first thing monday morning. Figures of below the 10% threshold can not be accepted!1!

Anyone know where the population averages for N.E.M component are ?

I'm especially interested about Lithuanian and Polish averages. Scandinavians score around 8% apparently, Finns double that and Saami.. who knows.

Looks like I just made the cut with my 10.04% even though I am a European mongrel lol! :P

Vetton
2012-09-23, 02:50
Nope, you have to return your Norwegian-badge and pistol at the office first thing monday morning. Figures of below the 10% threshold can not be accepted!1!

Anyone know where the population averages for N.E.M component are ?

I'm especially interested about Lithuanian and Polish averages. Scandinavians score around 8% apparently, Finns double that and Saami.. who knows.
Polish and Lithuanians average 2%, same as the Portuguese.

ItaloPortuga
2012-09-23, 03:18
Hmm... maybe this would explain my "chinky" phenotype? :D

Pallantides
2012-09-23, 03:29
Hmm... maybe this would explain my "chinky" phenotype? :D

How much 'North European Mesolithic' admixture do you have in MDLP World-22?

Portuguese average is 2%

ItaloPortuga
2012-09-23, 10:14
How much 'North European Mesolithic' admixture do you have in MDLP World-22?

Portuguese average is 2%

I haven´t done any genetic tests yet, most companies don´t ship to Brazil :(

Hweinlant
2012-09-23, 15:43
Polish and Lithuanians average 2%, same as the Portuguese.

Where can the figures be found ?

2% sounds small to me, considering the location. I've only seen results for 2 Poles, Woj and Pioterus. Pioterus scores over 4%, so there seem to be atleast moderate substructure inside Poland what comes to this component.

Vetton
2012-09-23, 16:10
Where can the figures be found ?

2% sounds small to me, considering the location. I've only seen results for 2 Poles, Woj and Pioterus. Pioterus scores over 4%, so there seem to be atleast moderate substructure inside Poland what comes to this component.
VV once posted a spreadsheet and I downloaded it ..here is the top10 for this component :

Braña1 80.9
Braña 2 80
Saami 76.4
Finnish-North 37.3
Finnish-South 30.1
Vepsa 24.1
Finnish 23.6
Karelian 23.2
Inkeri 22.7
Gok4 12.1
Russian_North 10.5

Pallantides
2012-09-23, 16:28
The Sami should petition the 'United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues' for baiting land, fishing and hunting rights in Northern Spain.:D

Lemminkäinen
2012-09-23, 17:12
VV once posted a spreadsheet and I downloaded it ..here is the top10 for this component :

Braña1 80.9
Braña 2 80
Saami 76.4
Finnish-North 37.3
Finnish-South 30.1
Vepsa 24.1
Finnish 23.6
Karelian 23.2
Inkeri 22.7
Gok4 12.1
Russian_North 10.5

Karelian, Inkeri can be right. Finnish North can be right if is from Lapland, Finnish South cannot be. An example of Southern Finnish result with no known non-Finnish admix, mainly from Finnish speaking Finland Proper, some Ostrobothnian admix from Finnish speaking regions.

# Population Percent
1 North-East-European 56.56
2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 19.48
3 North-European-Mesolithic 17.23
4 North-Siberean 1.55
5 Samoedic 1.38
6 West-Asian 1.07
7 Paleo-Siberian 0.85
8 East-Siberean 0.77
9 South-America_Amerind 0.63
10 Indo-Iranian 0.26
11 Austronesian 0.17
12 Pygmy 0.06
13 Sub-Saharian 0.01

Pallantides
2012-09-23, 17:32
Solomon Henriksson Pilto, Sami reindeer herder:
http://i.imgur.com/k5Jdk.jpg

Reconstruction of Cro-Magnon man from France:
http://i.imgur.com/ks83w.jpg

Hweinlant
2012-09-23, 18:30
Karelian, Inkeri can be right. Finnish North can be right if is from Lapland, Finnish South cannot be.


Agreed. The Finnish-South samples are propably from one of those "rare genetic disorders" studies, surely samples are collected at Helsinki but the people surely are not originally Southern Finnish but from some genetic isolate from Lapland. I noticed this from my own World22 Oracle results where the "Finnish-South" came only after Swedes and Russians. So they cant be really Southern Finnish.

My N.E.M is 16.6% which seems to be pretty much inline with other Southern/Western Finns. Eastern Finns seems to score a bit higher (2-3%) which likely is due the small dosage of additional Saami in them.

---------- Post Merged at 17:30 ----------


VV once posted a spreadsheet and I downloaded it ..here is the top10 for this component :

Braña1 80.9
Braña 2 80
Saami 76.4


Thats pretty mindblowing stuff.

Mesolithic Iberian:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3452/3391041598_fc16ce855d.jpg

I was able to find the MDLP world22 results for the project-members. Unfortunately the identification codes dont tell that much but there are few members who score over 10% and the results around 8% are not rare. As the project scope is in the area of formed Grand Duchy of Lithuania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania) it's safe to assume that atleast parts of the formed GDL have pretty much of the N.E.M component (even if the national averages are low).

Lemminkäinen
2012-09-23, 18:56
I found an Estonian from Gedmatch. With a proper SW-Finnish reference population she would get a lot of Finnish at MDLP-22. She has done some genealogy research and claims to be fully Estonian.

Hweinlant
2012-09-23, 19:26
^She seems to have just under 10% of the N.E.M component.

Ice Age
2012-09-23, 19:34
[QUOTE=Pallantides;994936]Solomon Henriksson Pilto, Sami reindeer herder:
http://i.imgur.com/k5Jdk.jpg

A very close relative of my grandfathers family. I use to eat smokes Sik (a fish) by their place when I was a little girl. We went there with dad. :)

Hweinlant
2012-09-23, 20:27
Ice Age, have you done 23andme ? Did you ever ran the MDLP world22 calculator ? If you did whats your N.E.M score ?

Ice Age
2012-09-23, 20:37
Ice Age, have you done 23andme ? Did you ever ran the MDLP world22 calculator ? If you did whats your N.E.M score ?

Could have been interesting to know. But no I haven't.

JAX
2012-09-23, 20:46
What do others on here think about the presence of the North-European-Mesolithic component in the British and Irish? Possibly a left over from the ancient Mesolithic peoples as well?

Pallantides
2012-09-23, 20:47
Some Vikings had Sami ancestry.

Hweinlant
2012-09-23, 21:00
What do others on here think about the presence of the North-European-Mesolithic component in the British and Irish? Possibly a left over from the ancient Mesolithic peoples as well?

Is there any structure inside British isles ? Some of it surely can be explained by Norwegian colonists from Viking era. Whats typical figure for Danes ? I assume not as high as Norwegians ?

linkus
2012-09-23, 23:31
Agreed. The Finnish-South samples are propably from one of those "rare genetic disorders" studies, surely samples are collected at Helsinki but the people surely are not originally Southern Finnish but from some genetic isolate from Lapland.They're from POPRES (says so in MDLP blog).
EDIT: Ooops! Apparently they're not, I stand corrected. 1000 Genomes Project then?


I was able to find the MDLP world22 results for the project-members. Unfortunately the identification codes dont tell that much but there are few members who score over 10% and the results around 8% are not rare. As the project scope is in the area of formed Grand Duchy of Lithuania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania) it's safe to assume that atleast parts of the formed GDL have pretty much of the N.E.M component (even if the national averages are low).At first, the admission criteria was less strict in MDLP than in other projects - no 4gp threshold. One only needed to have some ancestry from the area of the former Grand Dutchy. Few participants don't even have any actual ancestry from there, only minor vague suspicions based on, say, a cousin from Ancestry Finder or whatever (e.g. mixed Scandinavian V175). See this:
MDLP Participants (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iOSRjgNuKxA_F778Na47NUpdfwo_FFZNAeF8WtKCxK4/edit?authkey=CLCgvKQI&hl=en_US#)

Also, v178 and v245 are Swedes (presumably fully).





Anyone know where the population averages for N.E.M component are ?

I'm especially interested about Lithuanian and Polish averages.
Where can I find the population averages for this component ? Someone mentioned that VV has posted it somewhere ?Yes, he posted it in one of the MDLP threads in this forum but I don't remember which one and forum's internal search engine doesn't seem to be working properly after the upgrade. Here's the first part (full file is too big to post here):

Pygmy West-Asian North-European-Mesolithic Tibetan Mesomerican Arctic-Amerind South-America_Amerind Indian North-Siberean Atlantic_Med_Neolithic Samoedic Proto-Indo-Iranian East-Siberean North-East-European South-African North-Amerind Sub-Saharian East-South-Asian Near_East Melanesian Paleo-Siberean Austronesian
Lithuanian der 15 0.1 1.3 0.9 0.7 0.2 0.2 0.3 0.1 0.1 10.8 0.2 0.4 0.1 81.9 0.2 0.2 0.1 0 1.4 0.6 0.1 0.2
Latvian der 15 0 1.1 4 0.3 0.1 0.1 0.4 0.1 0.3 11.5 0.3 0.5 0.1 79.5 0 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.7 0.3 0.2 0
Lithuanian_V der 15 0 1.2 2 0.4 0.1 0.1 0.4 0.2 0.4 15.4 0.5 0.3 0.1 77.4 0 0 0 0 1 0.2 0.1 0.1
Belarusian der 15 0 2.7 1.1 0.5 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.4 0.3 12.9 0.5 0.3 0.1 76.4 0.1 0.2 0 0.1 3.4 0.2 0.1 0.2
Estonian der 15 0.2 0.7 7.1 0.3 0.3 0.5 0.1 0.4 0.4 12.2 0.7 0.5 0.1 75.2 0.1 0.3 0 0.1 0.3 0.2 0.2 0.3
Russian der 15 0.1 2.8 1.5 0.2 0.2 0.4 0.3 0.5 0.5 14.5 1.3 0.7 0.4 73.6 0.3 0.2 0 0.7 1.1 0.1 0.3 0.3
Russian_Center der 15 0 3.8 2.8 0.5 0.2 0.3 0.2 0.1 0.5 16 1.2 1 0.6 70.4 0 0.3 0 0.1 1.4 0.2 0.2 0.2
Polish der 15 0.1 3.2 2 0.4 0.3 0.4 0.1 0.3 0.4 18.4 0.7 0.9 0.1 70.2 0.1 0.3 0 0.1 1.3 0.2 0.2 0.3
Polish_V der 15 0 5 2.2 0.4 0 0.1 0.2 0.2 0.1 19.7 0.5 0.4 0.3 68.4 0.1 0.1 0 0 1.9 0.1 0.1 0.2
Russian_South der 15 0 6.2 1.7 0.3 0.2 0.1 0.3 0.2 0.7 17.3 1.5 0.4 0.1 68 0 0.3 0 0 1.5 0.3 0.6 0.3
Ukrainian der 15 0 5.6 0.7 0.6 0.1 0.3 0.3 0.1 0.6 18.1 1 0.5 0.3 68 0 0.3 0 0.4 2.9 0.2 0.3 0
Russian_cossack der 15 0 4.9 1.5 0.4 0.3 0.2 0.4 0.6 1 17.9 0.6 0.6 0.8 67.2 0 0 0 0.2 2.1 0.1 0.6 0.5
Ukrainian-East der 15 0 6.6 1.7 0.6 0.3 0.2 0.2 0 0.1 17.8 0.9 0.7 0.3 67.1 0 0 0 0.4 2.3 0.2 0.2 0.1
Belarusian_V der 15 0.1 4.2 1.8 0.3 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.4 0.3 20.9 1.5 0.5 0.3 66.6 0 0.2 0 0.1 1.7 0.1 0.3 0.1
Russian_V der 15 0 4 3.4 0.2 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.3 0.4 16.4 2.4 1.1 0.5 66.1 0 0.4 0 0.3 2.4 0.4 0.6 0.1
Sorb der 15 0.2 3.7 1.7 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.6 0.4 21.4 0.2 1.8 0.2 65.9 0.1 0 0.3 0.2 2.5 0.1 0.1 0.1
Moldavian der 15 0 3.5 6 0.6 0.2 0.3 0.1 0.2 1.2 12.2 1.6 0.4 4.3 65.2 0 0.2 0 1.5 2.1 0.2 0.1 0.1
Ukrainian-Center der 15 0 7.7 2.3 0.3 0.5 0 0 0.5 0.1 19.7 0.9 0.4 0.2 64.2 0.2 0 0 0.1 2.5 0.1 0.3 0.1
Russian_North der 15 0 2.4 10.5 0.3 0.3 0.5 0.3 0.3 2.1 11.8 4.7 0.3 0.8 63.5 0 0.2 0 0.2 1 0.2 0.5 0.2
Mordovian der 15 0 6.3 3.5 0.3 0.3 0.5 0.2 0.6 1.1 12.8 5.9 1.5 1.9 63.1 0.1 0.3 0 0.3 0.3 0.2 0.7 0.2
Ukrainian_V der 15 0 7.4 1.9 0.3 0.1 0.4 0.1 0.4 0.5 19.6 1 0.7 0.6 62.9 0.1 0.2 0 0.1 3.2 0 0.3 0.3
Vepsa der 15 0 0.4 24.1 0.1 0 0.8 0.1 0.5 2 6.6 1.4 0 0.2 62.5 0 0 0 0.1 0.5 0.1 0.6 0.2
Ukrainian-West der 15 0 6.9 1.5 0.4 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.1 21.1 1.7 0.9 0.1 62.1 0 0.1 0 0 3.8 0.2 0.1 0.2
Mordovian_V der 15 0 6.8 1.5 0 0 0.5 0 0 2.5 16.9 2.1 0 2.9 60.6 0.3 1.8 0.2 0 2 0.3 1.8 0
Karelian der 15 0 0.8 23.2 0.2 0 0.3 0.2 0.1 1.7 9.9 1.6 0.5 0.4 60.2 0 0 0 0 0.2 0.1 0.4 0.2
Inkeri der 15 0 1.8 22.7 0.4 0 0.5 0.1 0 0.7 13.5 0 0.2 0.3 59.1 0 0.2 0 0 0.3 0.2 0 0
Slovakian der 15 0 5.7 1.8 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.2 0.4 0 26.1 1.4 1.3 0 58.9 0 0.2 0 0 3.2 0.1 0 0.2
Latvian_V der 15 0 12.8 0.4 1.1 0 0.8 0 0 0.5 18.1 0.7 0 0 58.7 0 1.1 0 0 5.5 0.1 0 0.3
Finnish der 15 0 0.7 23.6 0.3 0.1 0.1 0.2 0 1 13.3 0.8 0.7 0.1 57.5 0 0.2 0 0 0.5 0.2 0.6 0.2
Czech der 15 0.1 5.4 1.4 0.5 0 0.3 0.2 0.5 0.2 27.8 0.2 1.4 0.1 57.4 0.1 0.2 0.1 0.1 3 0.3 0.3 0.3
Croatian_V der 15 0 7.5 2 1 0 0 0.4 0.3 0 25.5 0.1 0 0 55.9 0 0 0 0 6.4 1.2 0 0
Finnish-South der 15 0 0.2 30.1 0.3 0 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.3 11.6 0.3 0.5 0 54.9 0 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.5 0.2 0.2 0.2
German-North der 15 0.1 5.2 4.7 0.4 0.1 0 0.3 0.1 0 30.7 0.3 1.6 0 54.6 0.1 0.2 0.1 0 1 0.2 0.1 0
Swedish_V der 15 0 1.2 10.1 0.3 0.2 0 0.3 0.5 0 29.8 0.4 2.9 0 54.4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Slovenian der 15 0 7.3 1.6 0.2 0.1 0.5 0.2 0.5 0.4 29.7 0.1 1.2 0.2 54 0.1 0.1 0 0 3.5 0.2 0.3 0
Swedish der 15 0.1 3 7.8 0.3 0.1 0.1 0 0.1 0 31.8 0.3 1.6 0 53.7 0.1 0.3 0.2 0 0.1 0.1 0 0.4
German der 15 0 6.6 4.9 0.4 0.2 0.4 0.2 0.1 0.6 27.7 2 0.9 0.4 52.9 0.1 0.3 0 0 1.9 0.2 0.3 0.1
Croatian der 15 0.1 9.9 0.7 0.3 0.1 0.2 0.2 0 0.1 29.4 0.3 0.4 0 51.9 0 0.2 0 0 5.6 0.3 0.2 0.1
Finnish-North der 15 0.1 0 37.3 0.2 0.1 0 0.3 0.5 0.2 8.2 0.1 0.3 0 51.7 0.1 0.1 0 0 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2
Komi der 15 0 5.3 8.2 0.3 0.4 0.3 0 0.6 3 8.9 16.4 1.2 1.5 51.7 0 0.5 0 0.3 0.5 0.2 0.7 0.1
Hungarian der 15 0.1 8.3 2 0.3 0.1 0.2 0.2 0.5 0.4 29.7 0.5 1 0.4 51.1 0.1 0.4 0.1 0.1 4 0.1 0.2 0.2
CEU_V der 15 0 5.3 4.8 0.2 0.3 0.1 0.1 0.4 0.1 33.7 0.2 1.7 0.1 50.7 0.1 0.1 0.1 0 1.8 0.1 0 0.1
Tartar_Mishar der 15 0 9.8 6 0 0 0.3 0 0 1.4 11.4 8.2 0.6 8.6 50.5 0 0 0 0.7 0.8 0.6 0 1.1
Austrian der 15 0.1 6.9 2.1 0.4 0.3 0.2 0.1 0.2 0 32.9 0.3 1.8 0 50.3 0.2 0.2 0.2 0 3.1 0.2 0.2 0.3
German_V der 15 0 7.7 3.7 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.3 0 33.1 0.4 1.5 0 50.1 0 0 0.1 0 2.3 0.1 0 0.1
Bosnian der 15 0 11.4 0.4 0.4 0 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 28.9 0.3 0.6 0 50 0 0.3 0 0 6.4 0.2 0.2 0.1
Tatar_Kryashen der 15 0 6.6 4.2 0.7 0.2 0.1 0.2 0.8 1.2 13.8 8.9 1.1 5.6 49.5 0 0.7 0 1.6 3.8 0 1.1 0.2
Welsh der 15 0 4 4.9 0.2 0 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 36.7 0.2 3.4 0 49.3 0 0 0 0 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2
Norwegian_V der 15 0 2.8 9.8 0 0 0.1 0.3 0 0 34.4 0.3 3.8 0 48.1 0.1 0 0 0 0 0.1 0 0.2
Orcadian der 15 0 2.9 6.4 0 0.3 0 0.1 0 0 39.3 0.2 3.7 0 46.8 0 0.2 0 0 0 0 0 0
British der 15 0 4.8 5.7 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.2 0 39 0.2 2.8 0 46.3 0 0.1 0 0 0.2 0.1 0 0.1
CEU der 15 0.1 4.7 6.3 0.1 0.1 0.2 0.2 0.6 0 37.6 0.4 2.4 0 46.3 0.1 0 0.1 0 0.4 0 0.1 0.3
Chuvash der 15 0 6.7 6.1 0.1 0.2 0.4 0.3 0.6 3.5 7.9 17.6 1.3 5.3 45.6 0 0.2 0 1 1.8 0.3 1.1 0.1
Serbian der 15 0 11.7 0.5 0.2 0.2 0 0.2 0.3 0.3 32.6 0.2 0.9 0.1 44.5 0 0.2 0 0 7.5 0.1 0.3 0.2
Aleut der 15 0 2 6 0.1 1.2 8.2 0.3 0.5 1.5 9.8 2.8 0.4 2.9 42.7 0 11.1 0 1.1 1.3 0.2 8 0
German-South der 15 0.1 8.4 3.3 0.5 0.2 0.3 0.1 0.1 0.1 38.6 0.3 0.8 0.1 42.6 0.2 0 0.2 0 3.5 0.3 0.2 0.1
Tatar der 15 0 9.9 4.5 0.8 0.4 0.5 0.2 0.9 2.8 12 11.9 1.6 6.8 42.2 0 0.6 0 2.6 1.4 0.1 0.5 0.3
Montenegrin der 15 0 12.9 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.3 0.1 0.1 0.4 34.7 0.1 0.5 0.1 41.4 0 0.2 0 0 8.3 0.3 0.2 0
Macedonian der 15 0 13.8 0.4 0.2 0.1 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 32.8 0.5 0.3 0.1 41 0 0.1 0 0 9.5 0.2 0.2 0.1
Mansi der 15 0 2.5 5.7 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.1 0.2 5.5 8.8 30.9 1 3.2 39.2 0 0.3 0 0.2 0.4 0 0.7 0.2
Mari der 15 0.1 5 8.6 0.4 0.2 0.3 0.1 0.1 5.3 3.2 27.8 1.4 5.4 39.2 0 1 0 0.5 0.7 0.1 0.6 0.1
Bulgarian der 15 0.1 15.3 0.1 0.2 0.1 0.2 0.2 0.1 0.2 32.7 0.3 0.5 0.2 38.4 0 0.2 0 0 10.2 0.3 0.4 0.2
French der 15 0 6.7 4 0.2 0.1 0.3 0.1 0.2 0.1 43.5 0.2 2.1 0 38.4 0.2 0 0 0.1 3.4 0.1 0.1 0.1
Tatar_Lithuania der 15 0.2 11.3 1.3 1.1 0 0.3 0.6 1.6 1.9 11.7 4 1 12.8 38.3 0 0 0 9.9 2.9 0.3 0.8 0.1
Gagauz der 15 0 18.3 0 0.1 0 0 0 0.2 0.5 31.7 0.3 0.4 0 36.5 0 0.2 0 0.1 11 0.4 0.3 0.1
Swiss der 15 0.2 9.1 2.7 0.4 0.1 0 0.2 0.1 0 40.6 0.4 0.7 0.1 36.2 0.3 0.4 1.2 0 6.8 0.2 0.2 0.2
Udmurd der 15 0 8.7 8.5 0.2 1 0.3 0.4 1.1 3.7 4.9 29.6 2.4 1.8 36.2 0 0.4 0 0 0 0.2 0.7 0
Romania der 15 0.1 15.9 0 0.4 0 0.2 0.3 3.6 0.4 33.7 0.9 0.2 0.1 35.4 0.1 0.2 0.1 0.2 7.4 0.3 0.5 0.2
Provancal der 15 0.1 9.8 2.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.2 0 0 43.3 0.5 1.4 0 34.4 0 0 0.3 0 7.3 0.3 0 0
Italian_North der 15 0.1 11.4 1.5 0.2 0 0.2 0 0.3 0.4 41.8 0.1 0.4 0.1 34.1 0.1 0.1 0 0.1 8.7 0.1 0.2 0.1
Colville der 15 0 2.2 3.3 0 3.8 0 0.1 1.2 0 26.8 0.4 1.2 0 33.8 0 7 0 15 2 2 1.1 0
Basque der 15 0 0.1 2.1 0.1 0 0.1 0.1 0.6 0 59.2 0.2 1.1 0.1 33 0 0.1 0 0 3 0.1 0.1 0.1
Spaniard der 15 0.2 3.9 1.8 0.2 0.3 0.2 0.1 0.3 0.2 49.6 0.2 1.2 0.1 32.1 0.3 0 0.3 0.1 8.4 0.2 0.1 0.2
Iberian der 15 0.1 3.9 1.1 0.3 0.1 0.1 0.2 0.4 0 48.8 0.1 1.4 0 31 0 0.2 1.5 0 10.6 0.1 0.1 0.1
Portugese der 15 0.1 5 2 0.1 0.2 0 0 0.4 0 46.6 0.2 1.5 0 29.7 0.1 0 2 0 11.9 0.1 0.2 0.1
Lumbee der 15 0 6.5 4.4 0.5 0 0.9 0 0 0.2 27.4 0 2.5 0 28.2 1.1 0 26.6 0 1.4 0.3 0 0
Italian-North der 15 0 13.7 0.8 0.1 0.3 0.2 0.1 0.2 0.1 44.3 0 1.1 0.1 26.7 0.1 0 0 0 11.8 0.3 0.1 0.1
Ashkenazim_V der 15 0.2 16.8 0.7 0 0.1 0 0 0.1 0.2 33.1 1.1 0.7 0.6 26.6 0.5 0.8 0 0.1 17.7 0.4 0 0.2
Yukagir der 15 0 0.2 0.6 0.1 0.3 0.9 0.1 0.2 24.4 2.8 0.7 0.5 30.3 26.3 0 0.5 0 0.5 2.4 0 9.1 0.2
Kosovar der 15 0 16.1 0.1 0.2 0 0.1 0.2 0.1 0.1 47.3 0.4 0.7 0 26 0 0.1 0 0 7.9 0.1 0.3 0.1
Corsican der 15 0.1 10.9 0.7 0.3 0 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 47.8 0.3 0.4 0 25.5 0.2 0 0.7 0.1 12.6 0.1 0 0.2
Greek_North der 15 0 22.3 0.2 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.4 0.1 35.1 0.1 0.2 0.2 25.4 0 0.1 0.1 0.1 14.8 0.2 0.2 0.1
Greek_South der 15 0 20.6 0 0.3 0.1 0.1 0.1 1.5 0.1 35 0.4 0.5 0 25 0 0 0 0 15.9 0.2 0.3 0.2
Bashkir der 15 0 10.4 4 0.7 0.4 0.5 0.5 0.8 4.1 7 21.7 2 14.7 24.1 0 0.5 0 7.4 0.5 0.2 0.6 0.1
Tsimsian der 15 0 4.3 3.7 1.1 9.7 2 0.1 0 0.9 21.1 0 0.4 0.2 22.1 0 34.3 0 0 0 0 0 0.3
Greek_Center der 15 0 22.8 0 0.3 0 0.1 0.2 0 0.3 37.8 0.4 0.3 0 21.4 0 0.3 0 0 16 0.2 0.1 0
Tatar_Crim der 15 0 28.8 0.3 0.4 0.2 0.5 0.3 0.5 0.8 23.9 1.8 0.9 5 21.2 0 0.2 0 3.7 10.4 0.4 0.6 0.1
Puerto-Rican der 15 0.2 5.6 2.4 0.3 6.7 0.2 2.5 0.3 0.1 36.7 0.3 1 0 21 0.2 2.9 10.6 0.1 8.9 0.1 0 0.3
Avar der 15 0 56.8 2.6 0.8 0.3 0.1 0.4 0.4 0.2 10.4 2.8 2.1 0 20.9 0 0.3 0 0 0.7 0.5 0.5 0.2
Jew_Romania der 15 0.6 21.4 0.3 0 0.1 0.2 0.2 0 0 33.3 0 0.4 1.4 20.9 0.1 0.2 0 0.3 20.1 0.6 0 0
Greek_East der 15 0.1 23.7 0.1 0.3 0.1 0.1 0.2 0 0.2 37 0 0.2 0.1 20.2 0 0 0 0 17.3 0.2 0.1 0.1
Nivhi der 15 0 0.2 0.2 0 0 0 0.1 0.4 1 3.9 0 0.3 45.6 19.4 0 0.8 0 15.4 0.3 0.4 11.5 0.4
Tabassaran der 15 0.1 53.8 3.4 0.3 1.3 0.4 0.2 0.5 0 11.8 2.1 3.8 0 19.4 0 0.3 0 0 2 0.2 0.3 0.2
Italian-Center der 15 0.1 21.5 0.5 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0 0.1 40.2 0.1 0.7 0 18.9 0 0 0 0 17.4 0.1 0 0.1
Nogai der 15 0 34.7 1.6 0.4 0.1 0.7 0.4 0.4 2 15.4 2.8 1.5 9.9 18.4 0 0.6 0 6.2 3.9 0.2 0.4 0.2
Miwok der 15 0 5.1 2.2 0 20.5 0 5.1 0 0 24.9 0 3.1 0 18.3 0 12.7 4 0 4 0 0 0
Greek_Azov der 15 0 34.5 0.7 0.5 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.3 0.6 27.7 0.1 0.9 0.7 18.2 0 0.1 0 0 14.9 0.1 0.1 0.3
Lak der 15 0 55.3 3.6 0.1 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.5 0 12.1 2.6 3.5 0 17.8 0 0.9 0 0 1.9 0.4 0.3 0.2
Italian-South der 15 0.1 21.6 0.2 0.4 0.1 0 0.1 0 0.1 40.4 0 1 0 16.9 0.3 0 0 0.1 18.5 0.1 0.1 0.2
Tadjik der 15 0 39.9 3.7 0.6 0.7 0.3 0.3 11.2 0.2 5.7 5.7 7.7 2 16.8 0 1.2 0 1.8 1.4 0.3 0.5 0.2
Lezgin der 15 0 55.4 2.5 0.5 0.4 0.5 0.2 0.8 0 12.9 2.4 2.9 0 16.7 0 0.5 0 0 3.8 0.3 0.2 0.1
Adygei der 15 0 50.5 0.9 0.4 0.3 0.4 0.2 0.2 1.2 18.3 1.3 0.4 1.1 16.1 0 0.4 0 0.9 6.1 0.3 0.9 0.2
Nenets der 15 0 2.4 2.4 0 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.6 25.2 4 37.1 0.5 9.7 15.7 0 0.5 0 0.4 0.5 0 0.5 0.1
Chechen der 15 0 53 1.9 0.6 0.6 0.3 0.4 0.3 0.5 16.6 2.1 2.1 0.3 15.5 0 0.4 0 0.2 4.5 0.2 0.3 0.2
Saami der 15 0 0 76.4 0.1 0 0.1 0.2 0 3.7 0.9 2.1 0 0.2 15.5 0 0.2 0 0 0.1 0 0.5 0
Hakas der 15 0 5.7 2.8 0.6 0.7 0.2 0.2 0.2 6.6 2.7 17.6 2.2 29.6 15.1 0 2.4 0 11.9 0.2 0.1 1 0.3
Hant der 15 0 0.1 5.6 0 0.1 0.4 0.2 0 8 0.9 64.6 0.3 3.6 15.1 0 0.5 0 0.1 0.1 0 0.5 0
Balkarian der 15 0 48.6 1.3 0.7 0.3 0.5 0.3 0.4 0.9 19.3 1.7 0.7 2.3 14.9 0 0.5 0 1.5 4.9 0.2 0.7 0.3
Sicilian der 15 0.2 21.3 0.2 0.3 0.1 0.2 0.2 0 0.1 39.8 0 0.6 0.1 14.8 0.3 0.1 0.8 0 20.6 0.1 0 0.3
Chukchi der 15 0 0.7 0.7 0.1 0.6 16.9 0.1 0 4.9 2.9 0.8 0.3 6 14.6 0 8.3 0 0.3 0.6 0 42 0
Inuit-West der 15 0 0.2 2 0 0.3 62.4 0.3 0.1 0.4 10 1.5 0.6 0.9 14.5 0 4.5 0 0.1 0.1 0 2.3 0
Cirkassian der 15 0 45.1 2.2 0.8 0 0.9 0 0.5 1.8 20.7 1 0.3 2 14.4 0 0.9 0 2.8 5.8 0.8 0 0
Kabardinian der 15 0 49.6 1 0.6 0 0.5 0.2 0.1 1.7 18.6 0.3 1.3 2.2 14.4 0 0.5 0 2.5 5.2 0 0.7 0.8
Mexican der 15 0.4 2 0.6 0 24.1 0 5.1 0.8 0 25.2 1.3 1.2 0 14.1 0.3 12.7 3.5 0 8.6 0.2 0 0
Karakalpak der 15 0.1 14.4 2.6 0.5 0.7 0.6 0.4 2.9 3.9 5.4 5.7 2.2 26.4 13.9 0 0.4 0 16.9 2.3 0 0.4 0.2
Haida der 15 0 1.7 1.7 0.3 11.9 6.9 2.1 0 0 13.4 0.4 1.5 1.2 13.8 0 42.9 0 0.5 0.5 0 1.1 0
Kumyk der 15 0.1 48.1 1.3 0.4 0.2 0.2 0.5 0.9 0.7 16.9 2.1 1.9 3 13.8 0 0.4 0 1.4 7.2 0.4 0.3 0.4
Sardinian der 15 0 0.8 0 0.1 0 0 0 0 0 68.1 0 0 0 13.6 0.1 0 0 0 17.1 0 0 0
Greek_Cretan der 15 0.1 28.1 0.1 0.3 0 0.1 0 0.2 0.1 35.2 0 0.5 0 13.1 0.1 0 0.3 0 21.4 0.2 0 0.1
Roma der 15 0 23.1 0.3 0.4 0 0.3 0.3 25.9 0.2 26.6 0.2 0.1 0.4 13.1 0 0.2 0 0.2 7.8 0.4 0.4 0.3
Kazakh der 15 0 10 2.1 0.7 0.4 0.5 0.1 1.1 5.1 6.6 7.4 2.1 30.4 12.5 0.1 0.7 0 18.3 1.1 0.2 0.6 0.2
Ste7 der 15 7.9 2.9 0.9 2.2 4.3 5.6 7.5 0.8 4.8 0.9 2.1 2 16.2 12.5 11.3 1.9 2.4 2.1 7.5 1.8 2.1 0.5
Georgian der 15 0.1 53.6 1.5 0.5 0.1 0.2 0.3 0 0.5 19.7 0.2 0.8 0.2 12.4 0.1 0.2 0.1 0.2 8.5 0.3 0.4 0.3
Shor der 15 0 7.1 2.1 0.3 0.8 1.2 0.1 1.3 5.9 0.8 22 3.3 29 12.1 0.1 3.8 0 10.1 0 0.1 0 0.1
NorthOssetian der 15 0 52.4 1.1 0.9 0.2 0.4 0.2 0 0.8 17.9 2 0.9 3.1 12 0 0.7 0 1.2 4.9 0.3 0.9 0.2
Altaic der 15 0 6.9 1.6 0.3 0.9 0.5 0.4 0.7 9.2 2.4 11.3 2 34.3 11.2 0 0.8 0 16.2 0.2 0.2 0.7 0.1
Uzbek der 15 0 25.3 1.9 1 0.4 0.4 0.5 7.2 3.1 7 4.5 3.4 17.5 11 0.1 0.3 0 12.4 3.6 0.2 0.5 0
Dolgan der 15 0 1.1 1.1 0 0.4 0 0.1 1.1 29.8 2.3 1 0.4 48 10.9 0 0.3 0 1.7 0.8 0.1 0.8 0.1
Ashkenazim der 15 0.1 18.7 0.4 0.5 3.4 0.2 1.1 0.1 0.1 35.2 0 1.6 0.2 10.5 0.3 2.3 1.1 0.1 23.3 0.4 0.1 0
Jew_France der 15 0.2 21.7 0.3 0.3 0 0 0.1 0.1 0.1 38.2 0.2 0 0 10.2 0.2 0.1 0.6 0.1 26.8 0.5 0.4 0



There is obvious continuum in Finland too. This 23% in Finland is the MDLP-22 maximum, although VV obviously manifests it like a typical number for Finns. I have it about 15% and there is many lower results too. So the continuum to Scandinavia is reality, and I assume that also to Estonia. I suggest that Estonian samples are not representative, the same we can say about Finnish samples the real number varying from 12-14 to 23.Not representative? It's simply that the results of people included in the original run are not directly comparable to those produced by a calculator. I already posted this to you, didn't you read it?

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/32399-Finns-through-MDLP?p=990693#post990693
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/32399-Finns-through-MDLP?p=990790#post990790

If you would have been included in the original run, your scores would have been different. Same goes for everybody.


^Have you tested at 23andme? Do you have a GEDmatch account if you did?I have and I do. But why? Wanna see the results of Lithuanians after the dreaded calculator effect has taken its toll?
Lithuanians from GEDmatch (myself included):
http://imageshack.us/a/img849/9503/mdlpgedmatch.png



I also noticed that his runs/analysis changed several times. Seems a bit strange but maybe he was ''adjusting'' things a bit until he reached a conclusion at World-22?Or perhaps the SNPs extracted from hunter gatherers were simply too few to produce non-arbitrary results if such contradicting interpretations are possible?


I noticed this from my own World22 Oracle results where the "Finnish-South" came only after Swedes and Russians. So they cant be really Southern Finnish.
My N.E.M is 16.6% which seems to be pretty much inline with other Southern/Western Finns. Eastern Finns seems to score a bit higher (2-3%) which likely is due the small dosage of additional Saami in them.See my reply to Lemminkainen. At GEDmatch calculator North-East-Euro (a component which peaks in Lithuanians at 81.9%) drops by as much as 10% for all Lithuanians who were not included in the original run.



I haven´t done any genetic tests yet, most companies don´t ship to Brazil :(Google ''post forwarding'' - basically, 23andme would send your kit to a storage of a post forwarding company and the company would then send it to you. This way the postage actually ends up being cheaper than ordering it directly from 23andme (less expensive courier services). That's how all people from Russia order their kits (23 doesn't ship to Russia either).

JAX
2012-09-24, 00:49
^Okay so the average for Lithuanians even on GEDmatch seems to be around 3% with some a bit higher and some a bit lower but most around 3%.

---------- Post Merged at 19:49 ----------


Is there any structure inside British isles ? Some of it surely can be explained by Norwegian colonists from Viking era. Whats typical figure for Danes ? I assume not as high as Norwegians ?

I am not sure really. Both my mother and great uncle are of 100% Irish/British Isles descent and my mother score 4.52% in this component while my great uncle scores 5.85%.

Vetton
2012-09-24, 02:28
I am not sure really. Both mymother and great uncle are of 100% Irish/British Isles descent and my mother score 4.52% in this component while my great uncle scores 5.85%.
The british average around 5-6%

Polako
2012-09-24, 03:41
Not representative? It's simply that the results of people included in the original run are not directly comparable to those produced by a calculator. I already posted this to you, didn't you read it?

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/32399-Finns-through-MDLP?p=990693#post990693
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/32399-Finns-through-MDLP?p=990790#post990790

If you would have been included in the original run, your scores would have been different. Same goes for everybody.

It feels like the twilight zone when people who've been interested in personal genomics for years can't grasp the Calculator Effect.

I think some of them don't want to grasp it, because they get results they like despite the fact that they're clearly wrong, while others just can't get the simple theory.

Maybe it's like one of those mental teasers online that only some people find easy, while others have brains that are wired differently and will never get it?

I still see comments online from some morons saying that the Calculator Effect isn’t a problem because Dienekes said so. Fucking bizarre.

Lemminkäinen
2012-09-24, 06:09
Some Vikings had Sami ancestry.

Oh my God, Norwegians, Swdes, Danes, Estonians, Russians, Saamis and perhaps also Karelians were Vikings. Only my ancesteros were not :sadcry:

---------- Post Merged at 08:09 ----------

Linkus


Not representative? It's simply that the results of people included in the original run are not directly comparable to those produced by a calculator. I already posted this to you, didn't you read it?

Then there is a strange discontinuity inside Finnish results who are not project members, All Eastern Finns seem to get proper results, but none of western Finns. I would be greatly grateful if you can explain also this question.



Polako



I think some of them don't want to grasp it, because they get results they like despite the fact that they're clearly wrong, while others just can't get the simple theory.


You are totally lost, as usual. We all Finns know without doubt that our western results are wrong. You could just stop this nonsense, but you obviously can't.

Lemminkäinen
2012-09-24, 07:21
Common sense for reasonable people. I picked two southern Finns and two eastern Finns, calculated an average and compared results to the MDLP-22 averages. I could select 10 or 100 South or West Finns (being similar) and East Finns, nothing would change.

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k573/maurimy/MDLP-comparisosn_zps9bd81fef.gif

I am interested in Estonian results. You Estonian who have your results, you can send it to me by PM. Dont worry about what it is and how it looks.

Hweinlant
2012-09-24, 12:33
It feels like the twilight zone when people who've been interested in personal genomics for years can't grasp the Calculator Effect

Calculator effect has nothing to do with the observations on the OP.

Wojewoda
2012-09-24, 19:10
They were Neolithic in his first runs but then suddenly changed to being very Mesolithic in his latest run. I don't really know how that happened?

Maybe indeed low number of SNPs is responsible for this:



Also, only one of three comparisons produced "Asian" results, incidentally with the zombie-set not designed for West Eurasia originally but for South Asia instead. Revising the data now I see that Dienekes found:

· for K7: 9.3% African and 90.7% Atlantic-Baltic
· for K12: 45% Atlantic-Med, 41.6% North European, 10.3% East African, 1% Sub-Saharan
· for HarappaWorld DIY: 0.72% Pygmy, 6.31% San, 27.42% Mediterranean, 1.63% Papuan, 1.33% NE Asian, 6.75% Siberian, 55.41% NE Euro

All them give African affinities but only one "finds" East Asian (mostly Siberian) ones. There's mystery in that but the compass points to Africa rather than Asia.

Hweinlant
2012-09-24, 21:01
Does anyone know anything about the archeological context of the La Brana ? Is it considered as Asturian culture or ?

Vetton
2012-09-24, 21:29
Does anyone know anything about the archeological context of the La Brana ? Is it considered as Asturian culture or ?
The culture of that area (very close to Asturias) and that time was the Asturiense culture (mesolithic to late Neolithic)

JAX
2012-09-24, 22:31
I don't know if the North-European-Mesolithic component found in the Irish and British can be explained only by Viking ancestry. It shows up at low levels in most parts of Europe so some of it may be from another source. It's very low levels in Lithuanians still does not make much sense to me.

Vetton
2012-09-24, 22:48
I don't know if the North-European-Mesolithic component found in the Irish and British can be explained only by Viking ancestry. It shows up at low levels in most parts of Europe so some of it may be from another source. It's very low levels in Lithuanians still does not make much sense to me.
No, the mesolithic ancestry was already there before the Viking era..in fact I don't the vikings had that much of an impact in most of Britain, only in certain areas.

JAX
2012-09-24, 22:54
No, the mesolithic ancestry was already there before the Viking era..in fact I don't the vikings had that much of an impact in most of Britain, only in certain areas.

Thinking about it I agree with what you say here. I find it much more likely that the N.E.M. component found in the Brits and Irish actually comes form old Mesolithic ancestry than Viking ancestry.

der Hengst
2012-09-24, 23:06
how do i do it? but i am 60% mesolithic northerner and 40% neolithic... not much so

Bohemian Rhapsody
2012-09-24, 23:40
but i am 60% mesolithic northerner and 40% neolithic...

The northern European component is itself a combination of Mesolithic + Neolithic. So you're actually only 30% Mesolithic.

AndersP
2012-09-25, 10:04
Could have been interesting to know. But no I haven't.

Would like to download it and try it myself, but seems not available.

Hweinlant
2012-09-25, 11:06
Would like to download it and try it myself, but seems not available.

You can use it at Gedmatch.com

---------- Post Merged at 10:06 ----------


The culture of that area (very close to Asturias) and that time was the Asturiense culture (mesolithic to late Neolithic)

Sorry to ask stupid questions but the Iberian mesolithic is not one of my expertises. Is Asturian culture considered as "autochtonic" development from the earlier Magdalenian phase or is it intrusive in the area ?

Magdalenian sphere:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2vdk3vb.jpg