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nk191919
2012-10-08, 19:46
Iranian Azerbaijanis also known as Iranian Azeris, Iranian Turks, Azeri Turks[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-3)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-4)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-5)or Persian Azerbaijanis,[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-6)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-7) are Iranians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran) of Azerbaijani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijani_people) ethnicity. Iranian Azeris are mainly found in the northwest provinces of East Azerbaijan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Azerbaijan), Ardabil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardabil_Province), Zanjan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanjan_Province), parts of West Azerbaijan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Azerbaijan),[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-countrystudies.us-8)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-Iran_Country_Study_Guide-9)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-Iran_A_Country_Study-10)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-Encyclopedia_of_the_Stateless_Nations-11)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-12) and in smaller numbers, in other provinces such as Kurdistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Province),Qazvin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qazvin_Province), Hamadan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamadan_Province), Gilan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilan_Province) and Markazi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markazi_Province). Iranian Azerbaijanis also constitute a significant minority in Tehran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehran), Karaj (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaj) and other regions.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-Library_of_Congress_Iran-2)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-13)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azerbaijanis#cite_note-Library_of_Congress_Iran-2)



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Iran_ethnic_groups_map.png





https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zATysj3KmK0/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAABAg/cXm-58xgACA/photo.jpg




http://sharemychart.com/farzadim/charts/-zq0wQGqv0A.jpg




http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/37649199/Hossein+Alizadeh+H.jpg




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/86/Javad_alizadeh.jpg/379px-Javad_alizadeh.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Kasravi.gif/225px-Kasravi.gif.jpeg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Sattar_Khan.jpg



http://www.jamnews.ir/Images/News/Smal_Pic/20-11-1390/IMAGE634644157480835362.jpg




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Aziz_Asli%2C_Iranian_Goalkeeper.jpg/449px-Aziz_Asli%2C_Iranian_Goalkeeper.jpg




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3f/Samin_baghcheban.jpg



http://parstimes.com/literature/poetry/reza_baraheni/01.jpg




http://www.qlineorientalist.com/IranRises/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Zanjani.jpg




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Mehdi_Bazargan.jpg/200px-Mehdi_Bazargan.jpg




http://www.catonbed.de/jan2/pictures/galerie-w/brusberg/augstein/pic/600catonbed_de6.jpg




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Samad_Behrangi.JPG/140px-Samad_Behrangi.JPG



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Mina_Ahadi.jpg/590px-Mina_Ahadi.jpg

asingh
2012-10-08, 19:57
Really nice threads you creating, bro. :)

nk191919
2012-10-08, 20:20
Really nice threads you creating, bro. :)

there is a misconception that Iranians are only Persians, obviously that is not the case, I should know. Iran is a nation of nations, very similar to India.

---------- Post Merged at 14:20 ----------



http://s3.amazonaws.com/auteurs_production/images/cast_member/24774/original.jpg?1329241448



http://festival.roshd.ir/fa40/images/stories/bank/kamal_tabrizi_304806.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Kazem_Shariatmadari.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Portrait_of_Ali_Soheili.jpg



http://www.nashvillescene.com/binary/ed3a/Marjane-Satrapi10.jpg



http://ibexpub.com/authors/gh_saedi.jpg



http://newfifa.ir/images/Players/original/payam-sadeghian.jpg



http://www.sadegh-zadeh.de/en/images/kazem.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Roshdieh.jpg



http://www.iransportspress.com/thumbnail.php?file=rezezadeh_536337576.jpg&size=article_medium



He is of Georgian-Azerbaijani background.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/49184000/jpg/_49184359_lammermuir11_johnwood_766.jpg

nk191919
2012-10-08, 22:28
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Dinmohammadi.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Reza_Deghati_2010_c.jpg/200px-Reza_Deghati_2010_c.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Davoodi3.jpg/400px-Davoodi3.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Ali-Daei.JPG/708px-Ali-Daei.JPG



http://www.evi.com/images/thumbs/180/250/3cc48554fab3967f568f4346757ab857.JPG



http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20090716/gholizadeh20090716034323859.jpg


http://files.myopera.com/Ascendent/blog/Mohsen.jpg

Padre Organtino
2012-10-08, 22:32
Very interesting. They look surprisinly different from Caucasus Azeris.

nk191919
2012-10-08, 22:37
http://www.sapub.org/Global/images.aspx?personID=13533&type=big


http://www.prodental.ws/images/dr-matt-tabrizi.jpg



http://www.cualum.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/feature_moe_tabrizi.jpg



http://word.world-citizenship.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/behrooz-ghamari-tabrizi-lecture-ucla.jpg


http://photos.academia.edu/413805/156354/367177/large_babak.soltanalizadeh.jpg


http://fouman.com/Y/Gimsize.php?img1=./Image/History/Iranian_Wrestler_Abdollah_Movahhed.jpg&width1=200


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8oByUTxSU_i2uSlB-8Qs4dmRKY6qZsUnTlCUqw5QyBHsk6ke4DO3ZlOjT


http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2011/06/22/05_Farshid_Sweden_refugees_treated_well_4.jpg



http://www.florence-expo.com/back/imgsup/id3674_img1_sara1.jpg



http://noordev.net/wf/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ardabili_small.jpg




https://dc102.4shared.com/img/rt5p1FK7/s7/2_2_Davoud_Ardabili.jpg

---------- Post Merged at 16:37 ----------


Very interesting. They look surprisinly different from Caucasus Azeris.


In what sense are they different in their looks? I know genetically Iranian Azeris are closer to Persians and the Azeris in the Caucasus are closer to Caucasians specially Armenians. (Hence their family feud.)

Padre Organtino
2012-10-08, 22:44
In what sense are they different in their looks? I know genetically Iranian Azeris are close to Iranians and the Azeris in the Caucasus are closer to Caucasians specially Armenians. (Hence their family feud.)

I'd say that they're not as mountain-adapted as their northern cousins. While you can find plenty dolyhocephals among Caucasus Azeris the large of them is still kinda Mtebid/Armenoid looking (albeit with additional influences). These guy are pred. Iranid with little hints of Turanid.

enkidu_
2012-10-08, 22:49
What's their relationship with the peoples of Azerbaijan ?
I know that even if there has never been a major secessionist movement amongst Azeris, Iran historically accused the Ottomans and then the Soviets to use it against its territorial integrity (Tabriz being an economic and cultural centre of the region.)
Even if as I said the sentiment for a "national homeland" was never strong, an Iranian Azeri intellectual, Ahmad Kasravi, went as far as saying that the Soviets wanted to split the country by using his people.

So I was wondering if some Azerbaijanis call their "lost brothers" (Azeris from Iran) to form a new country/join the already existing State (to give you an idea, like the Pashtuns of Afghanistan say about those of Pakistan), or is that kind of sub-nationalism totally absent in Iran ?

BTW, you use of Azerbaijanis instead of Azeris may anger few Iranians for that very reason. ;P

And you're right, Iran is a multi-national States and the misery of the wider MENA region is generally to not have recognized its ethnico-cultural and religious diversity, roughly half of Iran's population is made up of non-Persians AFAIK (Azeris, Gilakis/Mazandaranis, Lurs/Bakhtiaris, Baloch, Qashqais, Turkmen, Arabs, Kurds, few Armenian/Georgian ethnic pockets here and there, ...)

Sargon999
2012-10-08, 22:55
And you're right, Iran is a multi-national States and the misery of the wider MENA region is generally to not have recognized its ethnico-cultural and religious diversity . . .

Agree there. Iran used to have also 200.000 Assyrians.

Regarding the thread, I thought Azeris would look quite different from other Iranians, but they do not.

nk191919
2012-10-08, 23:04
What's their relationship with the peoples of Azerbaijan ?
I know that even if there has never been a major secessionist movement amongst Azeris, Iran historically accused the Ottomans and then the Soviets to use it against its territorial integrity (Tabriz being an economic and cultural centre of the region.)
Even if as I said the sentiment for a "national homeland" was never strong, an Iranian Azeri intellectual, Ahmad Kasravi, went as far as saying that the Soviets wanted to split the country by using his people.

So I was wondering if some Azerbaijanis call their "lost brothers" (Azeris from Iran) to form a new country/join the already existing State (to give you an idea, like the Pashtuns of Afghanistan say about those of Pakistan), or is that kind of sub-nationalism totally absent in Iran ?

BTW, you use of Azerbaijanis instead of Azeris may anger few Iranians for that very reason. ;P

And you're right, Iran is a multi-national States and the misery of the wider MENA region is generally to not have recognized its ethnico-cultural and religious diversity, roughly half of Iran's population is made up of non-Persians AFAIK (Azeris, Gilakis/Mazandaranis, Lurs/Bakhtiaris, Baloch, Qashqais, Turkmen, Arabs, Kurds, few Armenian/Georgian ethnic pockets here and there, ...)


Iranian Azebaijanis see people from Republic of Azerbaijan as their brothers. As far as they are concerned both constitute the same people. Having said that there are differing opinions as to what the future holds for them even Among Iranian Azerbaijani. I am not endorsing any of them, but here are the three views. One view is the concept of One people and two Governments (bir Milet, Iki doulat in Azeri), and this group is entirely happy with current situation, and I would say This group also has the support of the vast majority of Iranian-Azerbaijanis. The 2nd group wants to join Azerbaijan, they believe that under a Persian dominated regime, they are culturally discriminated. So this movement has lead Azerbaijanis asking for more right under the current regime. They are still a very small but vocal minority among the Azeris. There is a third group that hopes one day Azerbaijan will be part of Iran. This also is a minority view, but they view Republic of Azerbaijan as an integral part of Iranian History and that Azeris are one the main players in Iran and if it were not for the Russians we would be part of the same nation. These people are of the view of Kasravi who you mentioned.

Azeris have historically dominated Iranian politics. This has been the case essentially since the arrival of Oghuz Turks in Iran. More recently the Safavid, Afshar, Qajar, and even Pahlavi Dynasty are mainly of Azeri blood. The current regime has many Azerbaijani as its main players.

Pluralism is a concept that MENA countires are dying for it. Instead we often times get Pan-Arabist, Pan-Turkish, Pan-Iranian and Pan Islamist movements which sap the region of any life.

asingh
2012-10-08, 23:10
Azeris have historically dominated Iranian politics. This has been the case essentially since the arrival of Oghuz Turks in Iran. More recently the Safavid, Afshar, Qajar, and even Pahlavi Dynasty is mainly of Azeri blood. The current regime has many Azerbaijani as its main players.

What was A.Khomeni....? Which region was he from. Nishapur is where his ancestory (as per wiki) is supposed to be. But then they moved to Kintoor (in India). But in 1830 his paternal g'father moved out. I find that interesting. Also India, has tons of cities with the "pur" in the end.

enkidu_
2012-10-08, 23:14
Iranian Azebaijanis see people from Republic of Azerbaijan as their brothers. As far as they are concerned both constitute the same people. Having said that there are differing opinions as to what the future holds for them even Among Iranian Azerbaijani. I am not endorsing any of them, but here are the three views. One view is the concept of One people and two Governments (bir Milet, Iki doulat in Azeri), and this group is entirely happy with current situation, and I would say This group also has the support of the vast majority of Iranian-Azerbaijanis. The 2nd group wants to join Azerbaijan, they believe that under a Persian dominated regime, they are culturally discriminated. So this movement has lead to Azerbaijanis asking for more right under the current regime. They are still a very small but vocal minority among the Azeris. There is a third group that hopes one day Azerbaijan will be part of Iran. This also is a minority view, but they view Republic of Azerbaijan as an integral part of Iranian History and that Azeris are one the main players in Iran and if it were not for the Russians we would be part of the same nation. These people are of the view of Kasravi who you mentioned.

Thanks for the info., so that's no way comparable to the Baloch in Iran (and Pakistan), and in fact looks a lot like the situation of the Pakhtoons in Pakistan... I don't know why, but don't you think that, isolated at it is, some could (are ?) using that card against Iran ? Is there a major "liberation" group operating, on political if not military level in Iran, which speaks for separatism ?


Azeris have historically dominated Iranian politics. This has been the case essentially since the arrival of Oghuz Turks in Iran. More recently the Safavid, Afshar, Qajar, and even Pahlavi Dynasty is mainly of Azeri blood. The current regime has many Azerbaijani as its main players.

Well, the "Supreme Leader", Ali Khameini, is (half ?) Azeri, can't do better than that

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Grand_Ayatollah_Ali_Khamenei%2C.jpg

Sami Yusuf, perhaps the best known Iranian in the world (after Ahmadinejad :lol:) is an Azeri too

http://www.moussem.be/uploads/images/orig/sami_yusuf_lyrics.jpg

nk191919
2012-10-08, 23:18
What was A.Khomeni....? Which region was he from. Nishapur is where his ancestory (as per wiki) is supposed to be. But then they moved to Kintoor (in India). But in 1830 his paternal g'father moved out. I find that interesting. Also India, has tons of cities with the "pur" in the end.


khamenei ( the current Supreme Leader) is of Azerbaijani father and speaks Azeri, Khatami (former President Azerbaijani Mother), Khomeini's son married an Azerbaijani. The former Shah's mother was from Azerbaijan, and his wife Farah Diba is also Azerbaijani. So it is a very complex mix.

Khomeini's family when they moved from India to Iran they settled near the city of Qom in central Iran.

asingh
2012-10-08, 23:21
Thanks for the info., so that's no way comparable to the Baloch in Iran (and Pakistan), and in fact looks a lot like the situation of the Pakhtoons in Pakistan... I don't know why, but don't you think that, isolated at it is, some could (are ?) using that card against Iran ? Is there a major "liberation" group operating, on political if not military level in Iran, which speaks for separatism ?

Mmm...that is an interesting angle. You really think they would think like that. I always thought they were quite united, even if multi ethnic. But separatism is something which easily crops up. Yea.

nk191919
2012-10-08, 23:26
Thanks for the info., so that's no way comparable to the Baloch in Iran (and Pakistan), and in fact looks a lot like the situation of the Pakhtoons in Pakistan... I don't know why, but don't you think that, isolated at it is, some could (are ?) using that card against Iran ? Is there a major "liberation" group operating, on political if not military level in Iran, which speaks for separatism ?





Yes they could, and Iranians are well aware of it. Ultimately Iran must become a Pluralistic nation and grant its ethnic minorities more rights or it will explode. I am optimistic long-term; however, short-term it may take some work. Azerbaijani are economically well off and they dominate the main businesses in Tehran, so secession is not in the cards, but more rights, I think ultimately that is the direction Iran will move towards.

enkidu_
2012-10-08, 23:44
Mmm...that is an interesting angle. You really think they would think like that. I always thought they were quite united, even if multi ethnic. But separatism is something which easily crops up. Yea.

If I was affiliated with the US State Department and like Ralph Peters would have nothing better to do in my post-military life than redraw countries map, I'd first give a thought about such issues of sponsoring separatist movements to destabilize the centre (USA officials actually thinks like you from what I've read), but I do believe like nk191919 that Azeris aren't following these lines, the Iranian Kurds are another story... sporadically read about political activist being hanged, and I think that with the Baloch - nk191919 could confirm - they're way, way more pro-separatism than Azeris.


Yes they could, and Iranians are well aware of it. Ultimately Iran must become a Pluralistic nation and grant its ethnic minorities more rights or it will explode. I am optimistic long-term; however, short-term it may take some work. Azerbaijani are economically well off and they dominate the main businesses in Tehran, so secession is not in the cards, but more rights, I think ultimately that is the direction Iran will move towards.

Interesting... as you know their situation, would you compare them to the Baloch in Sindh (economically so much well-off that they don't see the need to militate for a new State/joining another country, and a nationalism limited to cultural rights, not separation) ?

In fact, a "Azerbaijan People's Government" was established in NW Iran, a puppet govt. manufactured by the Soviets with Tabriz as its capital, and its the proof that the separatist sentiments aren't strong as lack of popular support compelled it to last only one full year.

Azeris from Iran:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2n6gpg.jpg

Yahya Rahim Safavi, commander for a decade of the powerful Revolutionary Guards:

http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20100824/rabbani20100824080526670.jpg

nk191919
2012-10-08, 23:52
If I was affiliated with the US State Department and like Ralph Peters would have nothing better to do in my post-military life than redraw countries map, I'd first give a thought about such issues of sponsoring separatist movements to destabilize the centre (USA officials actually thinks like you from what I've read), but I do believe like nk191919 that Azeris aren't following these lines, the Iranian Kurds are another story... sporadically read about political activist being hanged, and I think that with the Baloch - nk191919 could confirm - they're way, way more pro-separatism than Azeris.



Interesting... as you know their situation, would you compare them to the Baloch in Sindh (economically so much well-off that they don't see the need to militate for a new State/joining another country, and a nationalism limited to cultural rights, not separation) ?

In fact, a "Azerbaijan People's Government" was established in NW Iran, a puppet govt. manufactured by the Soviets with Tabriz as its capital, and its the proof that the separatist sentiments aren't strong as lack of popular support compelled it to last only one full year.






You are absolutely correct. Azeris are so well integrated in the Iranian society that any separatist movement will fail.

The Kurds and the Balochis( Specially Balochis) are not as well integrated in the society and their regions are poorer (Kurds to a much lesser extent), and the main driver is economics, that they would consider secession.

Also a lot of these movements are supported and funded by outside governments who know that the current regime rules through fear and intimidation.

nk191919
2012-10-09, 13:43
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/21/95154792_5c221fe73e.jpg



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http://ectm.ewi.tudelft.nl/V2010_6/images_people/Derakhshandeh,%20J,%20Jaber.jpg



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http://www.umu.se/digitalAssets/97/97914_saber_student_stories_2965_120515_mpn_w.jpg


http://photos.academia.edu/241509/52569/48421/large_arash.davari_serej.jpg


http://parviztarikhi.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/ahmadtarikihi20100910-ii_tabriz.jpg?w=579&h=487&h=487


http://stat1.architizer.com/mediadata/community/472011/193x132/59accf17918d75d396af3fa2ed6ac36c.jpg


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http://www.zzkico.ir/en/tmp/image/moradlo.jpg


http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rwbaker/ancestry/everyname/scan0003.jpg


http://www-3.unipv.it/aic/wp-content/uploads/Kambiz.jpg



http://www.habilian.ir/en/images/stories/shohada/shekarchi.jpg

abenjaldún
2012-10-09, 13:55
That people is way Whitier than the average Iranian...

(Understand me, I need a flame war...):lol:

adsız
2012-10-09, 14:13
That people is way Whitier than the average Iranian...

(Understand me, I need a flame war...):lol:


Actually, this thread is full of mis-information but i am too tired to correct all.

Sargon999
2012-10-09, 14:40
Actually, this thread is full of mis-information but i am too tired to correct all.

Enlighten us. Please, professor . . .

Askar9992
2012-10-09, 15:07
I think that azeris are mix of caucasian, oguz turkic & iranic elements. But sure, Iranian-azeris have more iranic in them

nk191919
2012-10-09, 15:11
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7181/6895062779_671df2f7e1.jpg


http://www.yourmiddleeast.com/media/news/images/2011/photo_1325062868831-1-0.jpg


http://www.srfunds.com/uploads/project/59/image2/FarhadTabrizi_DSC5754.jpg


http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1335000/images/_1336271_dadman_150ap.jpg


http://www.walnutcreekpersonalinjuryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Hossien-Tabrizi.jpg



http://www.paramountadvisorsgroup.com/files/57727/SANAZ%20pic~001.jpg



http://custom.superlativeinc.com/customasp/855599539/Maryam%20Tabrizi%20copy.JPG



http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/48980_1277684914_4296_n.jpg



http://www.zohur12.ir/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Mojtaba-Jabbari-Cannot-Join-Iran-against-Qatar-Due-to-Injury3.jpg


http://www.london2012.com/imgml/athletes/xl/1259632.png




http://www1.maxwell.syr.edu/uploadedImages/BASSIRI%20TABRIZI_ANISEH.jpg

nk191919
2012-10-09, 16:40
The woman on the far right is not Azerbaijani ( she is American)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7061/6894992255_cc95bdaab7.jpg



http://www.abikejourney.com/thumbnails/Iranpost1_FEA2/IMG_6852.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/Hassanroshdieh.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Parioosh_Ganji01.jpg




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Etesami.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2e/Javadtaba.jpg


http://www.iranchamber.com/music/darvishkhan/images/darvishkhan_group.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Bagherkhan.jpg/220px-Bagherkhan.jpg


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/c0.0.285.285/p403x403/557728_488314017865799_1051751326_n.jpg


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47300000/jpg/_47300219_jex_603952_de27-1.jpg




http://images.travelpod.com/users/kai.berlick/1.1274562826.the-girls-from-tabriz.jpg

nk191919
2012-10-10, 14:30
http://old.tehrantimes.com/News/10698/04_NAKHJAVANI.jpg


http://bahaimedia.org/images/thumb/3/31/Ali_Nakhjavani.jpg/230px-Ali_Nakhjavani.jpg


http://s3-media4.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/0Nxve2m3JK7lHXIEJNxWXw/l.jpg


http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash4/371417_100000986871105_1145590758_n.jpg


http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/371615_1487526643_725784439_n.jpg


http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/157676_1196758001_2140663321_n.jpg


http://www.me.utexas.edu/~adl/images/omid_Pic.jpg


http://centenary.bahai.us/sites/default/files/imagecache/page-main-image/images/press_clippings/Mr%20Nakhjavani%20(2).png


http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/48981_628307622_6801_n.jpg



http://lawneda.com/en/images/home.jpg


http://www.habibtoumi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Dr-Tabrizi-Gulf-Times.jpg


http://static-2.socialgo.com/cache/47187/image/111.jpg


http://fias.uni-frankfurt.de/mbn/app/webroot/img/members/tabrizi.jpg



http://images.dailylit.com/avatars/FarzadTabrizi



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5161/5244764434_9aaf711f95.jpg


http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/49229_1080386054_2700_n.jpg


http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash4/187491_1796889605_3765735_n.jpg


http://www.ersans.co.uk/cms/photo/people/ali_zanjani.jpg

nk191919
2012-10-10, 19:25
I'd say that they're not as mountain-adapted as their northern cousins. While you can find plenty dolyhocephals among Caucasus Azeris the large of them is still kinda Mtebid/Armenoid looking (albeit with additional influences). These guy are pred. Iranid with little hints of Turanid.

There are subtle differences that I can discern between Azerbaijanis phenotype and Persians phenotype, some of these people would immediately be recognized by Iranians as Azeris. But there are many similarities. I think a lot of times outsiders cannot detect them.

nk191919
2012-10-10, 21:57
http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/12/sep/new-school-year-quake-hit-areas-Iran-9.jpg




http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/12/sep/new-school-year-quake-hit-areas-Iran-20.jpg





http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/12/sep/new-school-year-quake-hit-areas-Iran-19.jpg




http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/12/sep/new-school-year-quake-hit-areas-Iran-1.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/12/sep/new-school-year-quake-hit-areas-Iran-31.jpg




http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/12/sep/new-school-year-quake-hit-areas-Iran-27.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/jun/Iran-Votes-Tabriz1.jpg



http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/12/jun/Persian-Carpet-Bazaar-Tabriz-21.jpg




http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/12/jul/car-wash-run-by-women-Tabriz-1.jpg




http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/12/jul/car-wash-run-by-women-Tabriz-10.jpg



http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/jul/Tabriz-Bazaar8.jpg



http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/jul/Tabriz-Bazaar1.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/jun/Iran-Votes-Tabriz6.jpg



http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/jun/Iran-Votes-Tabriz5.jpg



http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/jun/Iran-Votes-Tabriz4.jpg



http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/jun/Iran-Votes-Tabriz3.jpg



http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/jun/Iran-Votes-Tabriz2.jpg



http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/10/jan/horseshoer-and-workshop-in-Tabriz1.jpg

mac
2012-10-12, 11:00
http://old.tehrantimes.com/News/10698/04_NAKHJAVANI.jpg



Is it just me or does he look like a better looking version of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with rounder eyes and a smaller nose?

turboratur
2012-10-12, 11:57
Hi,
How can I show images in page without URL address ?
I have many Azaris pictures for show .

xklassicx
2012-10-12, 14:16
Sami Yusuf (British singer-songwriter, composer, producer and multi-instrumentalist ''Islamic pop-star'' of Azeri origin) who has a crazy fan girl following here :p:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3490/3193557773_8b185338b1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-paCwPDY-Ovc/TygWqMrQskI/AAAAAAAAAsk/AIwrmmpIVWs/s1600/tumblr_lav4v5kFSv1qet98po1_r1_400.jpg

http://www.thenational.ae/deployedfiles/Assets/Richmedia/Image/SaxoPress/AD20101217655320-The%20singer%20and%20.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3455/3194290546_b5cac9b3e5.jpg


Arash (Iranian-Swedish singer, dancer, entertainer and producer of Azeri roots; "My great-grandfather was an Azeri so I always feel my Azerbaijani roots.")

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Arash_2009.jpg/220px-Arash_2009.jpg

http://www.persianmirror.com/Images/Articles/1794/arash2.jpg

http://files.myopera.com/night%20wolf/blog/ARASH-MELODY.jpg

http://ajammc.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/arashazerbaijan.jpg?w=750


Also, this thread wouldn't be complete without the legendary Googoosh (Madonna of Iran) <3

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt3m4sB5a31qi83br.jpg

http://static.dangerousminds.net/uploads/images/googoosh3_thumb.jpg

http://bradwrolstad.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/gougoush-ghesseye-do-mahi.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9893/googoosh2060ob0.jpg

http://goran.mobile9.com/download/media/442/googoosh_tvmq69w6.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FINvJrKyCUs/TFki339_4NI/AAAAAAAAC-s/UqXx979EM0s/s1600/Googoosh1971.JPG

Her performance of ''Ayriliq'' is particularly poignant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZJ2q6MG3Ho&feature=related

ZephyrousMandaru
2012-10-12, 14:26
Actually, this thread is full of mis-information but i am too tired to correct all.

This thread is also full of carefully filtered, single person photographs. Posted no doubt, in an attempt to enhance the "Whiteness" of Iranians.

asingh
2012-10-12, 14:27
Hi,
How can I show images in page without URL address ?
I have many Azaris pictures for show .

//MOD:
Please note below the way to do it:



http://www1.maxwell.syr.edu/uploadedImages/BASSIRI%20TABRIZI_ANISEH.jpg

nk191919
2012-10-12, 14:35
This thread is also full of carefully filtered, single person photographs. Posted no doubt, in an attempt to enhance the "Whiteness" of Iranians.


Have you ever been to Tabriz, Ardabil or Zanjan? What are you bassing your comment on? I can assure there was no such filtering. Please make intelligent and useful comments here, otherwise hold your peace.

ZephyrousMandaru
2012-10-12, 14:47
Have you ever been to Tabriz, Ardabil or Zanjan? What are you bassing your comment on? I can assure there was no such filtering. Please make intelligent and useful comments here, otherwise hold your peace.

Do you know what integrity is? What about intellectual honesty? Why don't you try posting crowds for a change? Because I assure you, that there is such filtering here. Please make an effort not to cherry pick, otherwise be prepared for criticism.

nk191919
2012-10-12, 14:51
Do you know what integrity is? What about intellectual honesty? Why don't you try posting crowds for a change? Because I assure you, that there is such filtering here. Please make an effort not to cherry pick, otherwise be prepared for criticism.

I am open to criticism, however, i am fully aware of my intentions when i posted these picture. I can assure you it was not to show the "whiteness" of Iranians. I am not sure why you would even make such comment. It is a baseless comment. Do not question my integrity. You don't even know me.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Wikipedia_10_Tabriz.jpg/800px-Wikipedia_10_Tabriz.jpg

ZephyrousMandaru
2012-10-12, 15:00
I am open to criticism, however, i am fully aware of my intentions when i posted these picture. I can assure you it was not to show the "whiteness" of Iranians. I am not sure why you would even make such comment. It is a baseless comment. Do not question my integrity. You don't even know me.

It's because there have been trolls in the past, who when they'd post images of a given ethnic group. They would do so, by choosing individual images rather than crowds. It's a tactic that's often employed by them. So excuse me if my suspicions about this thread seem heightened.

nk191919
2012-10-12, 15:18
Pictures of the visit of Abdullah Gul to Tabriz.

http://www.tccb.gov.tr/images/photoalbum/2011-yurtdisi/yd-20110213-iran-259-tebriz.jpg



http://www.tccb.gov.tr/images/photoalbum/2011-yurtdisi/yd-20110213-iran-258-tebriz.jpg



http://www.tccb.gov.tr/images/photoalbum/2011-yurtdisi/yd-20110213-iran-230-tebriz.jpg


http://www.tccb.gov.tr/images/photoalbum/2011-yurtdisi/yd-20110213-iran-226-tebriz.jpg


http://www.tccb.gov.tr/images/photoalbum/2011-yurtdisi/yd-20110213-iran-249-tebriz.jpg


http://www.tccb.gov.tr/images/photoalbum/2011-yurtdisi/yd-20110213-iran-255-tebriz.jpg


http://www.tccb.gov.tr/images/photoalbum/2011-yurtdisi/yd-20110213-iran-247-tebriz.jpg


http://www.tccb.gov.tr/images/photoalbum/2011-yurtdisi/yd-20110213-iran-228-tebriz.jpg



http://www.tccb.gov.tr/images/photoalbum/2011-yurtdisi/yd-20110213-iran-229-tebriz.jpg



http://www.tccb.gov.tr/resize.aspx?d=\content\haber-2011/2011-02-16-iran-tebriz.gif&w=500&h=400&ngr=1

---------- Post Merged at 09:08 ----------


It's because there have been trolls in the past, who when they'd post images of a given ethnic group. They would do so, by choosing individual images rather than crowds. It's a tactic that's often employed by them. So excuse me if my suspicions about this thread seem heightened.

I will post other pictures and then judge my picks. I have posted pictures of well known Azeris. All these picks are Educated Azerbaijanis if that is cherry picking then that is all i have done.

---------- Post Merged at 09:16 ----------


Is it just me or does he look like a better looking version of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with rounder eyes and a smaller nose?

Yes he does. He is Reza Nakhjavani, he is also a government official.

---------- Post Merged at 09:18 ----------

http://www.mehrnews.com/mehr_media/image/2011/02/621915_orig.jpg



http://www.mehrnews.com/mehr_media/image/2011/02/621913_orig.jpg



http://www.mehrnews.com/mehr_media/image/2011/02/621908_orig.jpg



http://www.mehrnews.com/mehr_media/image/2011/02/621906_orig.jpg



http://www.mehrnews.com/mehr_media/image/2011/02/621919_orig.jpg

adsız
2012-10-12, 15:23
Posted no doubt, in an attempt to enhance the "Whiteness" of Iranians.

I believe Middle Easterners have a kind of "inferiority complex".

They always try to convince Westerns that they are not like what the west think of.

I saw many kurds rejecting their religon and saying "Hey , i am no more muslime. Please like me..!".
Some Kurds also claimed they are Europeans with blue eyes, golden hair...!
I saw many others (including some Europeans) always cherrypick the whiteest samples and post here in ABF and say : " We are a white nation" !

They forget this > Color does not mean anything but how powerful you are.. Once you become a rich/strong nation, everyone will respect you.

nk191919
2012-10-12, 15:25
http://www.nejatngo.org/panel/_files/newsannounce/tabriz-brainwashing_(6).jpg


http://www.nejatngo.org/panel/_files/newsannounce/tabriz-brainwashing_(3).jpg


http://www.nejatngo.org/panel/_files/newsannounce/tabriz-brainwashing.jpg

joseph capelli
2012-10-12, 15:30
Could you post the source of these photos? Otherwise it is a clear case of cherrypick.

nk191919
2012-10-12, 16:33
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AYuDnz_ml6c/T3rfQhX8III/AAAAAAAAD9w/DnkBTr38Rb0/s1600/national+park+lake+urmia+urmu+Urmiye+Orumiyeh+iran +Urmiya+Urumiye+Azerbaijan+Azerbaycan+su+duz+tuz+p rotest+Tebriz+Tabriz+(17).jpg



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-o3DpcxWJ5o4/T3rXuBmjTGI/AAAAAAAAD8I/B0aDO-P1ikM/s1600/national+park+lake+urmia+urmu+Urmiye+Orumiyeh+iran +Urmiya+Urumiye+Azerbaijan+Azerbaycan+su+duz+tuz+p rotest+Tebriz+Tabriz+(9).jpg



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_QS5FBhKgXg/T3rVIIiKa4I/AAAAAAAAD7g/8340zen-6cA/s1600/national+park+lake+urmia+urmu+Urmiye+Orumiyeh+iran +Urmiya+Urumiye+Azerbaijan+Azerbaycan+su+duz+tuz+p rotest+Tebriz+Tabriz+(4).jpg



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fuKpqH5E7Bk/T3rbhtsPCyI/AAAAAAAAD8w/TXWQwLDo2z4/s1600/national+park+lake+urmia+urmu+Urmiye+Orumiyeh+iran +Urmiya+Urumiye+Azerbaijan+Azerbaycan+su+duz+tuz+p rotest+Tebriz+Tabriz+(25).jpg




http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fuKpqH5E7Bk/T3rbhtsPCyI/AAAAAAAAD8w/TXWQwLDo2z4/s1600/national+park+lake+urmia+urmu+Urmiye+Orumiyeh+iran +Urmiya+Urumiye+Azerbaijan+Azerbaycan+su+duz+tuz+p rotest+Tebriz+Tabriz+(25).jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YHJOGzwhuGY/T3res6PPMnI/AAAAAAAAD9g/kouUuXyHp14/s1600/national+park+lake+urmia+urmu+Urmiye+Orumiyeh+iran +Urmiya+Urumiye+Azerbaijan+Azerbaycan+su+duz+tuz+p rotest+Tebriz+Tabriz+(19).jpg



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DtJmbU1Fs9o/T3rbB2KgQgI/AAAAAAAAD8o/SJW-Bi6UJVg/s1600/national+park+lake+urmia+urmu+Urmiye+Orumiyeh+iran +Urmiya+Urumiye+Azerbaijan+Azerbaycan+su+duz+tuz+p rotest+Tebriz+Tabriz+(26).jpg

---------- Post Merged at 09:51 ----------

http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/11/sep/Tabriz-celebrates-Teraktorsazi-win-against-Esteqlal-4.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/11/sep/Tabriz-celebrates-Teraktorsazi-win-against-Esteqlal-8.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/11/sep/Tabriz-celebrates-Teraktorsazi-win-against-Esteqlal-3.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/11/sep/Tabriz-celebrates-Teraktorsazi-win-against-Esteqlal-5.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/11/sep/Tabriz-celebrates-Teraktorsazi-win-against-Esteqlal-9.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/11/sep/Tabriz-celebrates-Teraktorsazi-win-against-Esteqlal-7.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/may/Family-Walk-Tabriz9.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/may/Family-Walk-Tabriz8.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/may/Family-Walk-Tabriz6.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/may/Family-Walk-Tabriz4.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/may/Family-Walk-Tabriz3.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/may/Family-Walk-Tabriz2.jpg

http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/09/may/Family-Walk-Tabriz1.jpg



http://www.mehrnews.com/mehr_media/image/2012/08/834940_orig.jpg


http://iran.worldcupblog.org/files/2010/01/P_Tractor_Fans.jpg


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EoAvm3IG_YM/SxJEn2f_gdI/AAAAAAAAAv8/iiucMjTO1CI/s1600/IMG_0326.JPG



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EoAvm3IG_YM/SxJGFwEhbGI/AAAAAAAAAwE/xAuQg6zQti0/s1600/IMG_0325.JPG



http://www.mojahedin.org/images/2011/201182913407609697077474011.jpg



http://quakesos.sosearthquakesvz.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ir-1308-1.jpg


The Three people in the right Front are not Azerbaijanis. The Rest Are.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-icf856CxGwQ/TKIcJgOOv1I/AAAAAAAAl1k/4482K99jQAE/s1600/IMG_3187.JPG


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_okE2fz_Pef8/S5pMViQmKzI/AAAAAAAACD8/Yjxt09U4FuU/s400/img634038438552500000.jpg


http://www.b66ama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2818-tabriz.jpg


http://iran.worldcupblog.org/files/2010/03/P_Tractor_Sazi_Fans.jpg






http://privateluxurytravelblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/getting-the-rock-star-treatment-in-tabriz1.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EoAvm3IG_YM/SxJDrwyzS9I/AAAAAAAAAv0/OpjmG6bmNtY/s1600/IMG_0346.JPG

---------- Post Merged at 10:30 ----------


It's because there have been trolls in the past, who when they'd post images of a given ethnic group. They would do so, by choosing individual images rather than crowds. It's a tactic that's often employed by them. So excuse me if my suspicions about this thread seem heightened.

I hope these pictures give you a better idea of the variety of Phenotype that exist among Iranian-Azerbaijanis. I will try to post more pictures.

---------- Post Merged at 10:33 ----------


Could you post the source of these photos? Otherwise it is a clear case of cherrypick.

Most of the pictures i posted are of successful Iranian-Azerbaijanis, source Wikipedia and various sources.

nk191919
2012-10-12, 17:43
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/c0.8.851.315/p851x315/465813_10150873932787216_1516500126_o.jpg


http://www.worldthreats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/babol_1634.jpg


http://www.worldthreats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tabriz3.jpg



http://www.reocities.com/massihforootan/MYPIX/Tractor.jpg



http://researchvice-en.tbzmed.ac.ir/uploads/60/CMS/user/file/77/motafarrege/DSC07343.JPG




http://www.persepolis.com/alumniclubs/pix/95/95--10_15_2008__16_3_34.jpg



http://lh6.ggpht.com/-8lkI48GxEo4/T3H6h-zhCEI/AAAAAAAAFOc/DfDS0KoJxfA/Students1%25255B4%25255D.jpg




http://up.behtarin.com/uploads/3cea1d086d5.jpg



http://up.behtarin.com/uploads/0813abcda41.jpg



http://mems-nems.webs.com/Snapshot_20091216_1.jpg




http://up.behtarin.com/uploads/f5b828fd893.jpg



http://up.behtarin.com/uploads/f5b828fd892.jpg



http://up.behtarin.com/uploads/e66dca10d31.jpg



http://up.behtarin.com/uploads/232f33acf02.jpg



http://up.behtarin.com/uploads/232f33acf04.jpg



http://www.znu.ac.ir/data/members/darudi_ahmad/optics_webpage/images/DSC00010.jpg




http://www.znu.ac.ir/data/members/darudi_ahmad/optics_webpage/images/ghanbari%20defense2.jpg



http://www.znu.ac.ir/data/members/darudi_ahmad/optics_webpage/images/untitled.JPG


http://forums.iransportspress.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31607&d=1187120575&thumb=1



http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/15/world/middleeast/15iran/15iran-articleLarge.jpg



http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3353/3599792877_79b1b89e23.jpg



http://www.habilian.ir/en/images/stories/habilian/namayeshgah/habilian-exhibition-ardabil-6.jpg




http://www.habilian.ir/en/images/stories/habilian/namayeshgah/habilian-exhibition-ardabil.jpg


The two people in the middle are NOT Iranian-Azerbaijanis

http://math.msgsu.edu.tr/~dpierce/Photos/2012/Iran/DSC05530.JPG




http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2795/4409659629_5bab5fea1b.jpg


http://www.znu.ac.ir/data/members/darudi_ahmad/optics_webpage/images/DSC09881.JPG

turboratur
2012-10-12, 18:52
You can see these pictures in my Album in my profile .

nk191919
2012-10-12, 18:53
http://www.savepasargad.com/1378/tabriz%203.jpg


http://www.iranian.com/main/files/blogimages/A3BC7C04-EE78-4822-A262-DCAC4D5A2084_mw800_mh600_s.jpg



http://farm1.staticflickr.com/228/486717517_bbd5a5c092_z.jpg




http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/TabrizBloodBankMehr.jpg


The Woman in the white Jacket is NOT Iranian-Azerbaijani

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6218/6350202497_46b84f967b.jpg


http://www.irantravelingcenter.com/images/bazaars_iran.jpg



http://www.fouman.com/Y/Gimsize.php?img1=./Image/History/Tabriz_American_School_1923.jpg&width1=400


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_E03s2-06Bfo/TSF1_yB6IFI/AAAAAAAABig/trGnnGD8n_c/s400/urmiye+Urmia+Orumiyeh+Urmu+iran.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_E03s2-06Bfo/TSF1A4sf4ZI/AAAAAAAABic/6V-1i9qyWUA/s1600/Urmia+Urmiye+Urmu+Orumiyeh.jpg


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/149146_177519285594720_1500912_n.jpg



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gnz7fTIWZxw/T9zB_xe9yxI/AAAAAAAAEMU/iraw7_r5ank/s1600/Urmia+Urmu+Urmiye+Urumiye+orumiyeh+urmiya+Azerbaij an+Turkish+Turks+children+Group+iran+Azerbaycan.jp g



http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20120815/ebrahimpour20120815173555000.jpg



http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/news/201112/n_8266_4.png


http://www.globekicker.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Playing-with-Masoud-and-his-cousin-in-Tabriz.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3344594050_8231266dcd.jpg


http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/news/201203/n_15561_4.jpg


http://iran.worldcupblog.org/files/2010/03/P_Tractor_Sazi_Fans.jpg


http://yurd.net/images/1326077511-58072_hp.jpg


http://aminus3.s3.amazonaws.com/image/g0022/u00021502/i00991293/625c6e17da2b7e920838a6ce9d1c26d9_large.jpg



http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bG4KHMAuNCI/0.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EoKZVzzA1SM/Tn0lHTgPm0I/AAAAAAAAD0k/xLUrAcHpnBQ/s1600/696636_orig.jpg



http://chopperharris.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/img_2749.jpg


http://rezaallahgolipour.persiangig.com/Weblog%2090/Ardabil%20-%20Gizlari%20_%20Giling%20Timi.jpg


http://img.youtube.com/vi/jKZLLZl3ioI/0.jpg


http://www.travelphotoreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMG_3586-1024x770.jpg

nk191919
2012-10-12, 19:54
http://www.payvand.com/news/09/aug/El-Goli-Tabriz2.jpg


http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/10/aug/Tabriz-Bazaar17.jpg



http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/10/aug/Tabriz-Bazaar21.jpg



http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/10/aug/Tabriz-Bazaar2.jpg



http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/44764130.jpg


http://www.siavash-beizai.com/images/pajuhesch1.jpg


http://www.siavash-beizai.com/images/Azarbaijan_b.jpg



http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3054/2431025095_39e11c2f95_z.jpg?zz=1

anunnaki
2012-10-12, 20:38
This thread is also full of carefully filtered, single person photographs. Posted no doubt, in an attempt to enhance the "Whiteness" of Iranians.

Extremely few of the people posted look white.

nk191919
2012-10-12, 20:52
Extremely few of the people posted look white.

I think people are so sensitive with Skin-Color that if they see a few pictures of light Skin-Colored people, then they assume you have intentions. I find it pretty interesting, because it does show how color sensitive we are. I find it really Amazing. Specially if these people have never been to Iranian-Azerbaijan, all of a sudden, they become experts. That is the most amusing part.

asingh
2012-10-12, 21:10
That is the most amusing part of it.

That happens a lot here. People who have only seen diaspora or you-tube/Google images; and then comment on natives, that 'we' are trying to make our people white, or cross them over as people from other places. But it is a part of race-boards. Nothing, really negative about it. :)

turboratur
2012-10-12, 21:38
That happens a lot here. People who have only seen diaspora or you-tube/Google images; and then comment on natives, that 'we' are trying to make our people white, or cross them over as people from other places. But it is a part of race-boards. Nothing, really negative about it. :)
If you want see waite people in Azarbaijan see my Album , there are many waite & blond Azaris in My Album .

---------- Post Merged at 19:38 ----------

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116472&d=1350049664

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http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116490&d=1350049715

nk191919
2012-10-12, 21:56
That happens a lot here. People who have only seen diaspora or you-tube/Google images; and then comment on natives, that 'we' are trying to make our people white, or cross them over as people from other places. But it is a part of race-boards. Nothing, really negative about it. :)



The funny part is that if I really wanted to whitewash Azeris in Iran, I could really do it. There are regions in Azerbaijan that have a lot of people with Blue-eyes and Light Hair as shown above by user "turboratur". I intentionally avoided those pictures to make sure I represent the majority of Azerbaijanis.

asingh
2012-10-12, 22:01
The funny part is that if I really wanted to whitewash Azeris in Iran, I could really do it. There are regions in Azerbaijan that have a lot of people with Blue-eyes and Lighter Hair people. I intentionally avoided those pictures to make sure I represent the majority of Azerbaijanis.

You are doing, fine, your posts on Iran are lovely. Put some posts up about regions and places. 5Aday, used to do 'em for her Turkey. Look up her handle ID, and search her posts by region names. Zephr', is a kewl dude, he was just being nit-picky and critical, otherwise he was not really accusing you. :)

nk191919
2012-10-12, 22:07
You are doing, fine, your posts on Iran are lovely. Put some posts up about regions and places. 5Aday, used to do 'em for her Turkey. Look up her handle ID, and search her posts by region names. Zephr', is a kewl dude, he was just being nit-picky and critical, otherwise he was not really accusing you. :)

Thanks, I know what he was doing, unfortunately he misunderstood my intentions.

Can you delete some of the earlier posts by user "turbortatur", he did not do them correctly?

asingh
2012-10-12, 22:11
Thanks, I know what he was doing, unfortunately he misunderstood my intentions.

Can you delete some of the earlier posts by user "turbortatur", he did not do them correctly?

I think I did delete them, and showed him how to embed images.

nk191919
2012-10-12, 22:15
I think I did delete them, and showed him how to embed images.


check page 5 and you will see what i am talking about. None of his posts have been done correctly.

turboratur
2012-10-12, 22:16
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116475&d=1350049672

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116471&d=1350049662

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http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116518&d=1350049811

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116524&d=1350049826

asingh
2012-10-12, 22:23
//MOD:
@turbortatur:

Create an ID at the any of the following:

imageshack.com
photobucket.com

And hotlink from there.

Do a test of 1-2 images first.

turboratur
2012-10-12, 22:23
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116526&d=1350051129

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116532&d=1350051139

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http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116547&d=1350051164

turboratur
2012-10-12, 22:31
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116553&d=1350051425

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116558&d=1350051438

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turboratur
2012-10-12, 22:33
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turboratur
2012-10-12, 22:36
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turboratur
2012-10-12, 22:41
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turboratur
2012-10-12, 22:43
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asingh
2012-10-13, 00:13
//MOD:
Incorrect image posts removed from page V.

turboratur
2012-10-13, 16:57
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turboratur
2012-10-13, 17:07
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nk191919
2012-10-13, 17:09
http://www.persianleague.com/news/images/81-10-20/ss-pp-fans1.jpg



http://fouman.com/Y/Image/History/Tabriz_Girls_Soccer_Fans_Club.jpg

http://u.goal.com/57700/57751hp2.jpg


http://aminus3.s3.amazonaws.com/image/g0022/u00021502/i01115123/7a22e443b5e12d57a87e0b48403d9ee2_large.jpg



http://www.lastkick.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/P_Tractor_Fans.jpg

---------- Post Merged at 11:09 ----------

http://eiraniangirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/3568272178_b725beb9ae_o-580x385.jpg



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http://www.taghribnews.com/images/docs/000046/n00046465-r-b-004.jpg



http://www.iasbs.ac.ir/~kompanym/gry/4018.jpg

turboratur
2012-10-13, 17:25
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turboratur
2012-10-13, 17:32
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turboratur
2012-10-13, 17:51
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Azeroglu
2012-10-13, 18:37
This thread is also full of carefully filtered, single person photographs. Posted no doubt, in an attempt to enhance the "Whiteness" of Iranians.

I don't know what you are on about, but as you can see it says Azerbaijani Turks, a different nation than Iranians/Persians, and a branch of Oghuz. I don't care about the purpose of your post, but learn to distinguish different nations. Don't get me wrong, they are of course Iranians in a sense of nationality, but origins, language, culture, they are a separate group.

As for the thread and comments of clueless people, its funny to talk about a basic look of Iranian Azeri Turks from selected pictures (that includes all kinds of pictures). It would be funny to present them as "Iranians" as in race, which they are definetly not and have their origins in different Turkoman tribes. And about "whiteness", Azeri Turks are a Turkic people and I think that answers it. They are not Europeans if that is what you are seeking after, skin-color is something else.

---------- Post Merged at 16:37 ----------

Azeri Turks during Iranian parade, I'm not posting this for their faces, but their distinctive Azerbaijani outfit.

http://i45.tinypic.com/21c6t8g.jpg

turboratur
2012-10-13, 20:19
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turboratur
2012-10-13, 20:30
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nk191919
2012-10-13, 23:49
Azeroglu,

Let's not dwell on what was said. It was a misunderstanding on their part. It has been taken care of. Let's move on.

This thread is dedicated to Iranian-Azerbaijanis and I hope you enjoy seeing some of your brothers from Iran.

nk191919
2012-10-14, 01:16
Sami Yusuf (British singer-songwriter, composer, producer and multi-instrumentalist ''Islamic pop-star'' of Azeri origin) who has a crazy fan girl following here :p:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3490/3193557773_8b185338b1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-paCwPDY-Ovc/TygWqMrQskI/AAAAAAAAAsk/AIwrmmpIVWs/s1600/tumblr_lav4v5kFSv1qet98po1_r1_400.jpg

http://www.thenational.ae/deployedfiles/Assets/Richmedia/Image/SaxoPress/AD20101217655320-The%20singer%20and%20.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3455/3194290546_b5cac9b3e5.jpg


Arash (Iranian-Swedish singer, dancer, entertainer and producer of Azeri roots; "My great-grandfather was an Azeri so I always feel my Azerbaijani roots.")

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Arash_2009.jpg/220px-Arash_2009.jpg

http://www.persianmirror.com/Images/Articles/1794/arash2.jpg

http://files.myopera.com/night%20wolf/blog/ARASH-MELODY.jpg

http://ajammc.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/arashazerbaijan.jpg?w=750


Also, this thread wouldn't be complete without the legendary Googoosh (Madonna of Iran) <3

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt3m4sB5a31qi83br.jpg

http://static.dangerousminds.net/uploads/images/googoosh3_thumb.jpg

http://bradwrolstad.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/gougoush-ghesseye-do-mahi.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9893/googoosh2060ob0.jpg

http://goran.mobile9.com/download/media/442/googoosh_tvmq69w6.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FINvJrKyCUs/TFki339_4NI/AAAAAAAAC-s/UqXx979EM0s/s1600/Googoosh1971.JPG

Her performance of ''Ayriliq'' is particularly poignant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZJ2q6MG3Ho&feature=related




i didn't realize you we're a fan of googosh. She is very popular among iranians. You look like her when she was younger. Thanks for your post

Azeroglu
2012-10-14, 15:44
Shah Ismail Khatai (Babur kissing the hand of Shah Ismail)

http://i45.tinypic.com/33vcfvb.jpg

Nader Shah

http://i49.tinypic.com/31320q1.jpg

Muhammed Khan Qajar

http://www.qajarpages.org/akhan.jpg

turboratur
2012-10-14, 17:57
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turboratur
2012-10-14, 18:07
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turboratur
2012-10-14, 20:48
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---------- Post Merged at 18:48 ----------

I hope these pictures help you to know AZARI Turks from IRAN .

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nk191919
2012-10-15, 16:00
People from Zanjan.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Locator_map_Iran_Zanjan_Province.png



http://nanophotonics.spiedigitallibrary.org/data/Journals/NANOP/23544/051817_1_d2.png


http://www.zums.ac.ir/files/site1/yekta_program/cv/rezatnom__15c1f.jpg


Narges Mohamadi, the deputy head of Iran’s Defenders of Human Righ

http://www.sargarmia.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Patoghestan.Com_narges-mohamadi34.jpg


http://www.barjesteh.nl/webah03.gif


http://www.iranfocus.com/uploads/img42feebda351d5.jpg


http://www.azu.ac.ir/userfiles/temped/0/image/%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%88%D9%85%20%D9%BE%D8%A7%DB%8C%D9%8 7%20%D9%88%D9%BE%D8%B2%D8%B4%DA%A9%DB%8C/modiran/sadeghzade.bmp


http://www.oocities.org/saber_sa/saber.jpg


http://www.artomid.com/images/categories/22.jpg


http://ir.viadeo.com/servlet/photo?memberId=0021wpxjs2udyk8o&height=185&width=140&ts=1278623839000


http://0.static.wix.com/media/f7c52a57a2fadf14afad680d3c8edbaf.wix_mp_1024


http://www.tavoosonline.com/WebFiles/News/Images/mansournariman.jpg


http://www.mn-co.com/images/p002_1_02.jpg



http://www.mopcap.com/2011/files/2011/nominators/28.jpg


http://www.iranradiofestival.ir/Portals/RFI-EN/scan0001.jpg

Farah Osouli was born in Zanjan in 1953. She studied graphic design at Tehran University and was a student of Mahmoud Farshchian, the renowned miniature painter.


http://www.iranian.com/Sep95/Images/Farah.gif


http://www.icgst.com/acse/Volume6/pics/S_Ghidary.jpg



Yasmine Pahlavi (born Etemad-Amini, 26 July 1968; Persian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language): یاسمین پهلوی‎) is the wife ofReza Pahlavi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Pahlavi), the last crown prince of the former Imperial State of Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pahlavi_dynasty).

http://www.geneall.net/img/pessoas/pes_309092.jpg

---------- Post Merged at 10:00 ----------

Nina Zanjani

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Nina Zanjani


Born
Nina Nasr Zanjani
1 September 1981 (age 31)
Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran)


Occupation
actress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actress)


Years active
2006–present


Nina Nasr Zanjani (born 1 September 1981 in Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran)) is a Swedish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden) actress of Persian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_people) origin. She played one of the two lead roles in Helena Bergström (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Bergstr%C3%B6m)'s directorial debut Mind the Gap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_the_Gap_(2007_film))as the daughter Yasmin.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Zanjani#cite_note-0) She starred in the second Swedish series of Wallander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallander_(Swedish_TV_series)), as the police woman Isabelle Melin.




http://cf2.imgobject.com/t/p/original/enhsHioXbBEKtwtS15Duwc8cNjz.jpg




http://static.cinemarx.ro/poze/persoane-mari/2010/03/Nina_Zanjani_1269160587.jpg



http://i2.listal.com/image/1082573/600full-nina-zanjani.jpg



http://i2.listal.com/image/1082572/600full-nina-zanjani.jpg

turboratur
2012-10-15, 16:17
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nk191919
2012-10-15, 16:20
The above pictures are from the region in Iran which suffered an earthquake. The picture above show the victims of this earthquake.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/2012_Iran_earthquakes.jpg

turboratur
2012-10-15, 16:26
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117037&d=1350309361

Parviz PARASTUYI (Actor) is a Azariturk from CHARDOOLY , KABOODARAHANG , HAMEDAN province .
( Parastuyi and his daughter )

turboratur
2012-10-15, 18:40
Aref GHAFOURI ( Mogician in Turky )
Azariturk from ORUMIA ( Center of West AZARBAIJAN province NW Iran )

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116712&d=1350137459

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nk191919
2012-10-15, 18:43
Aref Ghafouri: 2011 Most Extreme Magician of the World
International Magicians Society

Aref Ghafouri (https://www.facebook.com/Aref.gh) is from Iran. He started magic when he was 11 years old and now he is one of the most Famous Magician of Iran,Azerbaijan and Turkey.He come to be famous In Turkey's Got talent.He will be continue to his big illusion's projects. The Merlin Award (http://www.magicims.com/Merlin_Award.php) to magic is what the Oscar is to the movies, what the Emmy is for television, and what the Tony is for theater.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=1GVGTdBqRKo

turboratur
2012-10-16, 15:39
Moharram in Azarbaijan (NW Iran)

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117060&d=1350394466

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http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117050&d=1350394437

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117049&d=1350394435

turboratur
2012-10-17, 20:59
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117076&d=1350498925

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117067&d=1350498909

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117070&d=1350498914

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117063&d=1350498888

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117062&d=1350498885

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117061&d=1350498881

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117068&d=1350498911

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117074&d=1350498921

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117073&d=1350498919

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117069&d=1350498913

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117065&d=1350498891

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117071&d=1350498917

---------- Post Merged at 18:59 ----------

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117082&d=1350500163

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117080&d=1350500130

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117079&d=1350500109

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117078&d=1350500092

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117077&d=1350500077

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117081&d=1350500141

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117083&d=1350500165

turboratur
2012-10-17, 22:05
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117095&d=1350504001

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117089&d=1350503873

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117091&d=1350503949

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117090&d=1350503896

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117088&d=1350503848

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117087&d=1350503839

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117086&d=1350503809

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117085&d=1350503793

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117084&d=1350503774

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117092&d=1350503965

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117093&d=1350503987

turboratur
2012-10-18, 21:29
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117111&d=1350588179

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117112&d=1350588182

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117113&d=1350588184

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117114&d=1350588211

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117110&d=1350588177

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117109&d=1350588176

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117108&d=1350588175

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117107&d=1350588173

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117106&d=1350588171

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117105&d=1350588167

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117104&d=1350588163

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117103&d=1350588160

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117101&d=1350588154

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117100&d=1350588150

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117099&d=1350588145

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117098&d=1350588144

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117097&d=1350588141

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117096&d=1350588140

turboratur
2012-10-19, 16:28
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117115&d=1350656667

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117119&d=1350656694

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117122&d=1350656702

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117118&d=1350656690

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117117&d=1350656689

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117116&d=1350656674

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117120&d=1350656695

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117123&d=1350656710

turboratur
2012-10-20, 18:26
Another pictures of Azari Turks noamds :

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117160&d=1350750306

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117152&d=1350749937

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117153&d=1350749948

turboratur
2012-10-20, 20:24
Difference between Azaris ( AzariTurks ) and Persisn :
Only children are Azaris in these pictures , and men and women are Persisn.

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117150&d=1350749909

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117151&d=1350749927

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116959&d=1350229446

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117148&d=1350749887

turboratur
2012-10-21, 16:58
Tiraxtor

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117211&d=1350830967

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117214&d=1350830978

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117220&d=1350831011

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117221&d=1350831013

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117217&d=1350830996

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117200&d=1350830911

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117202&d=1350830927

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117199&d=1350830909

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117187&d=1350830879

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117177&d=1350830816

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117170&d=1350830765

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117167&d=1350830733

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117171&d=1350830775

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117164&d=1350830707

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117168&d=1350830744

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117183&d=1350830859

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117198&d=1350830908

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117223&d=1350831016

adsız
2012-10-21, 20:45
Salute and respect to all of My Azerbaijani Brothers. We will get united ,soon..

nk191919
2012-10-22, 19:20
Salute and respect to all of My Azerbaijani Brothers. We will get united ,soon..

Please DO NOT Defile this thread or Any thread related to Iranians with your Pan-Turkish rhetoric. We respect your threads, we expect the same from you. Please don't do this again.

---------- Post Merged at 13:20 ----------

Iranian Singer Parisa Arsalani

http://www.bugun.com.tr/newsFiles/1/0/0/0/1/0/1/1/0/0/1/1/0/0/0/0/0/file/142528.jpg


http://www.anayurtgazetesi.com/haber_resim/K1-PAR%C4%B0SA.jpg


http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/48597417/Parisa+Arsalani+parisa.jpg

Iranian Singer Dariush

http://www.kidsidebyside.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/40261_462860091162_51812961162_6959091_7486281_n.j pg


http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/iranianamericanjews_images/Dariush-761785.jpg


Iranian Singer Mansour


http://www.iranian.com/main/files/musicimages/man1.jpg





http://www.wallsave.com/wallpapers/1280x720/techies/157786/techies-mansour-jafari-157786.jpg

nk191919
2012-10-23, 16:35
Tabriz (Persian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language)/Azerbaijani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijani_language):تبریز) (pronounced [tæbˈriːz] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_Persian) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Speaker_Icon.svg/13px-Speaker_Icon.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tabriz.ogg) listen (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Tabriz.ogg))) is the fifth largest city[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabriz#cite_note-1)and one of the historical capitals of Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran) and the capital of East Azerbaijan Province (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Azerbaijan_Province). Situated at an altitude of 1,350 meters at the junction of the Quru River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quri_Chay) and Aji River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aji_Chay), it was the second largest city in Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran) until the late 1960s, one of its former capitals, and residence of the crown prince under the Qajar dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qajar_dynasty). The city has proven extremely influential in the country’s recent history. Tabriz is located in a valley to the north of the long ridge of the volcanic cone of Sahand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahand), south of the Eynali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eynali) mountain. The valley opens out into a plain that slopes gently down to the northern end of Lake Urmia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Urmia), 60 km to the west. With cold winters and temperate summers the city is considered a summer resort.The estimated population of the city is around 1,400,000[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabriz#cite_note-2) based on results of the Iranian census bureau. Tabriz is the fourth most populous city in Iran after Tehran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehran),Mashhad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashhad), and Esfahan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esfahan), and is also a major Iranian heavy industrial and manufacturing center. Some of these industries include automobile, machine tools, oil and petrochemical and cement production.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabriz#cite_note-3)With a rich history, Tabriz contains many historical monuments, but repeated devastating earthquakes and several invasions during frequent wars have substantially damaged many of them. Many monuments in the city date back to the Ilkhanid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilkhanid), Safavid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty), and Qajar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qajar_dynasty) periods,[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabriz#cite_note-chap.sch.ir-4)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabriz#cite_note-5)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabriz#cite_note-lonelyplanet.com-6) with the large Tabriz Historic Bazaar Complex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabriz_Historic_Bazaar_Complex) being named as a World Heritage Site (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site) in 2010.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabriz#cite_note-7) In addition to all of this there is an excavation site and museum in the city center with a history that dates back to 2500 years, which is also regarded as one of the most historic cities in ancient Iran.




Random Faces from Tabriz, Iran

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4127/5071684589_0e1d6a0b01_z.jpg


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4131/5072280532_2d38324494.jpg


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4153/5071690065_7dd3d7c768_z.jpg


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4106/5071671757_123dd85f42.jpg



http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1392/1380754517_bea6744ae7_z.jpg



http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3263/5718634938_e26d2c66a3_z.jpg



http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4033/4652751536_486af2ce79_z.jpg



http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4033/4652744114_2bc56c4617_z.jpg



http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8303/7754447244_40131d1790_z.jpg



http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7279/7754444114_0bd88d9caa_z.jpg


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4101/4748276864_4c612ea892_z.jpg


http://farm1.staticflickr.com/228/486717517_bbd5a5c092_z.jpg



http://farm1.staticflickr.com/231/486790302_d5ec665145_z.jpg


http://shutter.persiangig.com/picture/tabriz/resturant.jpg



http://acdn.500px.net/316352.jpg


http://i.images.cdn.fotopedia.com/2Ky3QT-aKZw-BYYlZ4h76CY-ifill_1024x768/People_around_the_World/Asia/Uzbekistan/Tajik_people/Soldier_old_Man.jpg

turboratur
2012-11-02, 14:50
Jamshid HASHEMPOUR an Azariturk actor of Iranian cinema

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117146&d=1350749869

other Iranian azariturk actores :

Behrooz VOSOUGHI

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117144&d=1350749862

and others :

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117142&d=1350749853

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117137&d=1350749824

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117138&d=1350749829

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117134&d=1350749806

turboratur
2012-11-03, 18:53
Where are Antropolgists that speak about people's race and phenotypes in this website ?
Why are they silent about AzariTurks phenotypes ?
I show a lot of Azaris people's Pictures from East AZARBAIJAN province in NW IRAN in this forum .
Indeed real Azaris in world are Iranian Azaris in nwIran , and in Iran real Azaris are East Azarbaijan's people .


http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117231&d=1351960950

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117232&d=1351960952

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117233&d=1351960954

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117234&d=1351960956

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117235&d=1351960958

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117236&d=1351960961

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117237&d=1351960964

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117238&d=1351960966

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117240&d=1351960974

turboratur
2012-11-05, 18:03
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117147&d=1350749876

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117143&d=1350749860

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117135&d=1350749811

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117139&d=1350749838

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117125&d=1350749768

turboratur
2012-11-09, 15:36
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117334&d=1352470208

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117335&d=1352470213

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/album.php?albumid=477&attachmentid=117325

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117296&d=1352470053

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117295&d=1352470045

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117289&d=1352469997

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117290&d=1352470004

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117291&d=1352470012

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117294&d=1352470037

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117288&d=1352469988

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117323&d=1352470149

---------- Post Merged at 14:36 ----------

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117325&d=1352470171

turboratur
2012-11-10, 18:43
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117314&d=1352470113

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117313&d=1352470109

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117310&d=1352470097

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117315&d=1352470118

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117319&d=1352470136

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117326&d=1352470177

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117329&d=1352470188

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117330&d=1352470189

Sky earth
2012-11-10, 19:05
very beautiful people. thank you for the pictures:thumbsup:
They all can count as Turks, Persians and other West Asian nations

adsız
2012-11-28, 19:10
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/29381_438912566157434_558540225_n.jpg
Azerbaijani students from N. Iran

nk191919
2012-11-30, 19:34
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Mirza-Abdul-Rahim-Talibov-Tabrizi.jpg


Mirzā Abdul'Rahim Tālibov Najjār Tabrizi (1834, Tabriz — 1911, Temir-Khan-Shura, named Buinaksk since 1922) (Persian: ميرزا عبدالرحیم طالبف نجار تبریزی) was an Iranian Azerbaijani[1][2] intellectual and social reformer. He was born in the Sorkhab district of Tabriz, Iran. Both his father, Abu-Tālib Najjār Tabrizi, and grandfather, Ali-Morad Najjār Tabrizi, were carpenters (whence the name Najjār). No information concerning the maternal side of his family is available.

In 1851, Talibov emigrated to Tbilisi (Tiflis), the administrative capital of the Russian Caucasus, and began a new life there (see Treaty of Golestan and Treaty of Turkmenchay). According to one Iranian source, Talibov attended school in Tbilisi and studied modern sciences, however there is no independent evidence in support of this report. It has been suggested that Talibov may in fact never have received a formal education in Russia. In a letter written to an Iranian friend, he indicated that he produced his major works through relying on personal reading and self-discipline.

In Tbilisi, Talibov worked for an Iranian businessman, named Mohammad-Ali Khan, who had emigrated to Transcaucasia from the city of Kashan. Mohammad-Ali Khan was a contractor who had accumulated much of his wealth from obtaining concessions for construction of roads and bridges in Transcaucasia. After years of working for the wealthy compatriot, Talibov must have saved a sufficient amount of capital to start his own construction business. He also moved from Tbilisi to Temir-Khan-Shura (Buinaksk, since 1922), the provincial capital of Dagestan, where he bought a comfortable house, built a small private library and married a Shia woman from Derbent.

Talibov wrote all of his works after the age of fifty-five. He had by then attained a degree of financial security that enabled him to devote the next twenty-one years of his life to writing and translating from Russian into Persian. With the exception of his last two books, he published all of his works at his own expense. Of his last two books, the first, Īzāhāt dar Khosus-e Azādi (Explanations Concerning Freedom), was published in Tehran after the victory of the Iranian Constitutional Revolution of 1906, and the second, Siyāsat-e Tālibi (Tālibian Politics), was published posthumously in Tehran a few months after his death in 1911.

During his lifetime, two of Talibov's works, namely Ketāb-e Ahmad yā Safineh-ye Tālebi (Ahmad's Book or the Talibian Vessel) and Masālek'ol-Moh'senin (The Ways of the Charitable), achieved great eminence. Ketāb-e Ahmad, which consists of two volumes, was inspired by Jean Jacques Rousseau's tract on education, Emile. The book is based on conversations between the author and his fictional seven-year-old son, Ahmad, whose searching and inquisitive mind compels his father to expand on a wide range of scientific, historical, political and religious topics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Mfakhundov.jpg


http://azfreespeech.az/eng/uploads/posts/2010-11/1289473906_12.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Mirza_Fatali_Akhundov.jpg


http://www.travel-images.com/azer435.jpg


Mirza Fatali Akhundov (Azerbaijani: Mirzə Fətəli Axundov), former – Akhundzade (12 July 1812, Nukha – 9 March 1878, Tiflis), was a celebrated Azerbaijani author, playwright, philosopher, and founder of modern literary criticism, "who acquired fame primarily as the writer of European-inspired plays in the Azeri Turkic language".[1] Akhundov singlehandedly opened a new stage of development of Azerbaijani literature and is also considered one of the founders of modern Iranian literature. He was also the founder of materialism and atheism movement in Azerbaijan[2] and one of forerunners of modern Iranian nationalism.[3]

Akhundov was born in 1812 in Nukha (present-day Shaki, Azerbaijan) to a wealthy land owning family from Iranian Azerbaijan. His parents, and especially his uncle Haji Alaskar, who was Fatali's first teacher, prepared young Fatali for a career in Shi'a clergy, but the young man was attracted to the literature. In 1832, while in Ganja, Akhundov came into contact with the poet Mirza Shafi Vazeh, who introduced him to a Western secular thought and discouraged him from pursuing a religious career.[4] Later in 1834 Akhunddov moved to Tiflis (present-day Tbilisi, Georgia), where he worked as a translator of Oriental languages. Since 1837 he worked as a teacher in Tbilisi uezd Armenian school, then in Nersisyan school[1]. In Tiflis his acquaintance and friendship with the exiled Russian Decembrists Alexander Bestuzhev-Marlinsky, Vladimir Odoevsky, poet Yakov Polonsky, and others played some part in formation of Akhundov's europeanized outlook.

Akhundov's first published work was The Oriental Poem (1837) written to lament the death of the great Russian poet Alexander Pushkin. But the rise of Akhundov's literary activity comes in the 1850s. In the first half of the 1850s, Akhundov wrote six comedies – the first comedies in Azerbaijani literature as well as the first samples of the national dramaturgy. The comedies by Akhundov are unique in their critical pathos, analysis of the realities in Azerbaijan of the first half of the 19th century. These comedies found numerous responses in the Russian other foreign periodical press. The German Magazine of Foreign Literature called Akhundov "dramatic genius", "the Azerbaijani Molière" 1. Akhundov's sharp pen was directed against everything that hindered the way of progress, freedom and enlightement, and at the same time his comedies were imbued with the feeling of faith in the bright future of the Azerbaijani people.
In 1859 Akhundov published his short but famous novel The Deceived Stars. In this novel he laid the foundation of Azerbaijani realistic historical prose, giving the models of a new genre in Azerbaijani literature. By his comedies and dramas Akhundov established realism as the leading trend in Azerbaijani literature.
In the 1920s, the Azerbaijan State Academic Opera and Ballet Theatre was named after Akhundov.

According to Professor Ronald Grigor Suny:
“ Turkish nationalism, which developed in part as a reaction to the nationalism of the Christian minorities [of the Ottoman Empire], was, like Armenian nationalism, heavily influenced by thinkers who lived and were educated in the Russian Empire. The Crimean Tatar Ismail Bey Gasprinski and the Azerbaijani writer Mirza Fath Ali Akhundov inspired Turkish intellectuals in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.[5] ”

According to Professor Tadeusz Swietochowski:
“ In his glorification of the pre-Islamic greatness of Iran, before it was destroyed at the hands of the "hungry, naked and savage Arabs, "Akhundzada was one of the forerunners of modern Iranian nationalism, and of its militant manifestations at that. Nor was he devoid of anti-Ottoman sentiments, and in his spirit of the age-long Iranian Ottoman confrontation he ventured into his writing on the victory of Shah Abbas I over the Turks at Baghdad. Akhundov is counted as one of the founders of modern Iranian literature, and his formative influence is visible in such major Persian-language writers as Malkum Khan, Mirza Agha Khan and Mirza Abd ul-Rahim Talibof. All of them were advocates of reforms in Iran. If Akhundov had no doubt that his spiritual homeland was Iran, Azerbaijan was the land he grew up and whose language was his native tongue. His lyrical poetry was written in Persian, but his work that carry messages of social importance as written in the language of the people of his native land, Turki. With no indication of split-personality, he combined larger Iranian identity with Azerbaijani - he used the term vatan (fatherland) in reference to both.[3] ”

Akhundov also supported the Russians. According to Walter Kolarz:
“ The greatest Azerbaidzhani poet of the nineteenth century, Mirza Fathali Akhundov (1812-78), who is called the "Molière of the Orient", was so completely devoted to the Russian cause that he urged his compatriots to fight Turkey during the Crimean War.[6]

Akhundzadeh, Mirza Aqa Khan Kermani and Jalal al Din Mirza Qajar are the forerunners of intellectual romantic Iranian nationalism.[7] Akhundzadeh proudly identified himself as being of Persian stock (nežād-e Irāni), belonging to the nation of Iran (mellat-e Irān) and to the Iranian homeland ( waṭan ). He influenced Jālāl-al-Din Mirzā (a son of Bahman Mirza Qajar) through friendship and correspondence as well as Mirza Aqa Khan Kermani. Jalāl al-Dīn Mirza (1826–70), a Qajar prince, initiated the reconstruction of Iranian national history in his Nāma-ye Khosravan (Book of the Monarchs), the first history textbook for Dar ul-Funun in simple Persian, purified of Arabic words.Mirza Aqa Khan Kermani (1854–96) followed Jalāl-al-Din Mirzā in producing a national history of Iran, Āʾina-ye sekandari, extending from the mythological past to the Qajar era, to compare and contrast Iran’s glorious past with its present plight.[7]

Well ahead of his time, Akhundov was a keen advocate for alphabet reform, recognizing deficiencies of Perso-Arabic script with regards to Turkic sounds. He began his work regarding alphabet reform in 1850. His first efforts focused on modifying the Perso-Arabic script so that it would more adequately satisfy the phonetic requirements of the Azerbaijani language. First, he insisted that each sound be represented by a separate symbol - no duplications or omissions. The Perso-Arabic script expresses only three vowel sounds, whereas Azeri needs to identify nine vowels. Later, he openly advocated the change from Perso-Arabic to a modified Latin alphabet. The Latin script which was used in Azerbaijan between 1922 and 1939, and the Latin script which is used now, were based on Akhundov's third version.

Beside of his role in Azerbaijani literature and Iranian nationalism, Akhundzadeh was also known for his harsh criticisms of religions (mainly Islam) and stays as the most iconic Azerbaijani atheist.[8] National Library of Azerbaijan and Azerbaijan State Academic Opera and Ballet Theatre as well as couple of streets, parks and libraries are also named after Akhundov in Azerbaijan. A cultural museum in Tbilisi, Georgia that focuses on Georgian-Azerbaijani cultural relations is also named after him.

Punik, town in Armenia was also named in the honour of Akhundov until very recently. TURKSOY hosted a groundbreaking ceremony to declare 2012 as year of Mirza Fatali Akhundov.

Reportedly Akhundov's life will be turned into a movie.[9]


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Mir Jalal Pashayev (Azerbaijani: Mir Cəlal Paşayev), (26 April 1908, Ardabil, Iran – 28 September 1978, Baku), known by his literary pen-name Mir Jalal, was an Azerbaijani writer and literary critic. He was the grandfather of Azerbaijan's current First Lady Mehriban Aliyeva.

Mir Jalal, who had received his degree in education in 1928 in Ganja, two years later studied at Kazan University in Tatarstan, where Lenin once had been a student. Later on Mir Jalal enrolled in the Institute of Higher Education of Baku. While studying, he was doing research and writing for various newspapers. Among them the most notable was Young Worker for which many outstanding literary men of Azerbaijan contributed early in their lives. In 1933 he was working as researcher of Azerbaijani literary history at the State University of Azerbaijan. After writing a book on the Poetry of Fuzûlî, the famous fifteenth century Azeri poet, as his Master’s thesis, in 1947 he completed his doctoral dissertation on Literary Schools in Azerbaijan with special emphasis on the famous satirical journal Molla Nasreddin and its writers. It was in the same year that he became a professor at the State University of Baku and devoted his life to teaching and writing.[1]

Mir Jalal Pashayev is best remembered for his satirical short stories, which poked fun at Soviet bureaucracy which had established itself in Azerbaijan when he was a mere boy of 12 years old. His glimpses of everyday life are informative and, on occasion, hilariously exaggerated, but they document the psychological transformation of a society that for generations was rewarded for denying common sense and for stifling personal intuition and initiative. Mir Jalal did not live to see the dissolution of the Soviet Union.[2]

Pashayev co-authored the three-volume, "History of Azerbaijani Literature" (1957–1960) and wrote more than 50 books. İclas Qurusu (Dried Up in Meetings) is one of his most famous works describing how the main character's obsession with bureaucratic procedures makes him totally out of touch with the realities of his family life. His most popular books are:

Dirilən adam (Resurrection Man,1936)
Bir gəncin manifesti (Manifest of a Young Man, 1938)
Yolumuz hayanadır? (Where Are We Going? 1957)
Yaşıdlar (People of the Same Age, 1984).
Pashayev’s honors include: Honorary Art Worker of Azerbaijan (1969) and Laureate of Azerbaijan Komsomol Award (1968).

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Mehriban Aliyeva (née Pashayeva) was born into a family described in Wikileaks cables as "the single most powerful family in Azerbaijan." Her grandfather was noted Azerbaijani writer Mir Jalal Pashayev. Her uncle Hafiz Pashayev was Azerbaijan's first Ambassador to the United States. Aliyeva's father Arif Pashayev is Rector of the National Aviation Academy in Baku,[2] and her mother, Aida Imanguliyeva (1939–92) was a prominent philologist and arabist.[3]

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Hafiz Pashayev Mir Jalal oglu (Azerbaijani: Hafiz Paşayev Mir Cəlal oğlu; born May 2, 1941) is the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs at the Government of Azerbaijan since 2006.

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Rubaba Khalil qizi Muradova (Azerbaijani: Rübabə Muradova), born Rubaba Ishragi (21 March 1930, Ardabil – 28 August 1983, Baku), was an Azerbaijani opera (mezzo soprano) and folk singer.

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Fatma Sattarovna Mukhtarova (Azerbaijani: Fatma Muxtarova, Russian: Фатьма Мухтарова; 26 March 1893 or 1898,[1] Urmia – 19 October 1972, Baku) was a Russian and Soviet opera singer (mezzo-soprano),[2] Honorary Artist of Georgia and People's Artist of Azerbaijan.






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Madina Gulgun (Azerbaijani: Mədinə Gülgün), born Madina Nurulla qizi Alakbarzadeh (17 January 1926, Baku – 17 February 1991, Baku), was an Iranian-Azerbaijani poetess.

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Sattar Khan (Persian/Azeri: ستارخان, IPA: [sætːɒːɾ xɒn]; (October 20, 1866—November 17, 1914), honorarily titled Sardār-e Melli (Persian: سردار ملی‎ meaning National Commander) was a pivotal figure in the Persian Constitutional Revolution and is considered by many Iranians to be a national hero.[1]

Sattar Khan is remembered in Iran as heroic leader of the Iranian Constitutional Revolution, who was born in Azerbaijan, could barely speak Farsi and is the subject of poems and songs. A street in west Tehran has been named after him.

adsız
2012-11-30, 19:56
According to Professor Ronald Grigor Suny“ Turkish nationalism, which developed in part as a reaction to the nationalism of the Christian minorities [of the Ottoman Empire], was, like Armenian nationalism, heavily influenced by thinkers who lived and were educated in the Russian Empire. The Crimean Tatar Ismail Bey Gasprinski and the Azerbaijani writer Mirza Fath Ali Akhundov inspired Turkish ntellectuals in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.[5] ”

A very good summary.

nk191919
2012-11-30, 19:59
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Yussef Etessami (or Etessam-ol-molk), Iranian journalist, official, publisher, translator, and writer, was born in 1874 and died in 1938. His father Ebrahim was from Ashtian and the head of finance of the Iranian province of Azerbaijan. He was the elder brother of the architect and painter Abolhassan Etessami, and the father of the poetess Parvin Etessami.

In the 1890s, Yussef Etessami established the first typographical printing house in Tabriz. He was member of the Iranian Parliament or Majles in 1909-12, and founded the Bahar journal in 1910. At various junctures he served in the Ministry of Education and headed the Royal and Majles Libraries.
The Bahar journal was a sixty-four-page monthly published in 1910-1 and 1921-2. As noted in the first issue, the purpose of Bahar was “to provide a … forum for various significant topics of scientific, literary, ethical, historical, and artistic interest to people of understanding, and to acquaint the public with valuable information.” Most of the journal's material was written or translated by Yussef Etessami, and large part devoted to Western culture. To Edward Granville Browne (1928, 489) Bahar appeared “very modern and European in tone;” and in Encyclopaedia Iranica, Heshmat Moayyad points out its “liberal and humanistic” orientation.

In addition to his contributions to Bahar, Yussef Etessami's produced about forty volumes of translations, in particular some Persian translations of Qasim Amin's Tahrir al-Mara, Victor Hugo's Les Misérables, vol. 1, and Friedrich Schiller's Kabale und Liebe. He is the author also of a commentary in Arabic of Abolqassem al-Zamakhshari's Atwaq ad-Dahab, an a three-volume catalogue of manuscripts in the Majles Library.


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Parvin E'tesami (Persian: پروین اعتصامی‎) (March 16, 1907 – April 5, 1941), also Parvin Etesami, was a 20th century Persian poet of Iran.[1][2] According to Ali Akbar Dehkhoda, her given name was Rakhshanda (Persian: رخشنده‎).

Parvin was around seven or eight years old when her poetic ability was revealed. Through her father's encouragement, she versified some literary pieces which were translated from western sources by her father. In 1921-22, some of her earliest known poems were published in the Persian magazine Bahar (Spring). The first edition of her Diwan (book of poetry) compromised 156 poems and appeared in 1935. The famous poet and scholar Mohammad Taqi Bahar wrote an introduction to her work. The second edition of her book, edited by her brother Abu'l Fatha Etesami, appeared shortly after her death in 1941. It consisted of 209 different compositions in Mathnawi, Qasida, Ghazal, and Qeta, and stanzaic forms. It totaled 5606 distiches.

In her short life, she managed to achieve great fame amongst Iranians. Parvin's poetry follows the classical Persian tradition its form and substance. She remained unaffected by or perhaps ignored the modernistic trends in Persian poetry. In the arrangement of her poetry book, there are approximately 42 untitled Qasidas and Qet'as (another form of Persian poetry). These works follower a didactic and philosophical styles of Sanai and Naser Khusraw. Several other Qasidas, particularly in the description of nature show influences from the poet Manuchehri. There are also some Ghazals in her Diwan.

According to Professor Heshmat Moayyad, her Safar-e ashk (Journey of a tear) counts among the finest lyrics ever written in Persian.

Another form of poetry, the monazara (debate), claims the largest portions of Parvin's Divan. She composed approximately sixty-five poems in the style of monazara and seventy-five anecdotes, fables, and allegories. According to Professor Heshmat Moayyad: "Parvin wrote about men and women of different social backgrounds, a wide-ranging array of animals, birds, flowers, trees, cosmic and natural elements, objects of daily life, abstract concepts, all personified and symbolizing her wealth of ideas. Through these figures she holds up a mirror to others showing them the abuses of society and their failure in moral commitment. Likewise, in these debates she eloquently expresses her basic thoughts about life and death, social justice, ethics, education, and the supreme importance of knowledge".[1]

nk191919
2012-11-30, 22:14
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Shams Tabrizi was the spiritual teacher of Rumi. Rumi was the great poet that lived 800 years ago in the Middle East and influenced much of its people. Rumi was a poet, jurist, theologian, and Sufi mystic.[7] Iranians, Turks, Afghans, Tajiks, and other Central Asian Muslims as well as the Muslims of the Indian subcontinent have greatly appreciated his spiritual legacy in the past seven centuries.[8] Rumi's importance is considered to transcend national and ethnic borders. His poems have been widely translated into many of the world's languages and transposed into various formats. In 2007, he was described as the "most popular poet in America.


Shams-i-Tabrīzī or Shams al-Din Mohammad (1185-1248) was a Persian[1][2][3] Muslim,[4] who is credited as the spiritual instructor of Mewlānā Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Balkhi, also known as Rumi and is referenced with great reverence in Rumi’s poetic collection, in particular Diwan-i Shams-i Tabrīzī (The Works of Shams of Tabriz). Tradition holds that Shams taught Rumi in seclusion in Konya for a period of forty days, before fleeing for Damascus. The tomb of Shams-i Tabrīzī was recently nominated to be a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

The Life of Shams-i Tabrīzī

According to Sipah Salar, a devotee and intimate friend of Rumi who spent forty years with him, Shams was the son of the Imam Ala al-Din. In a work entitled Manāqib al-‘arifīn (Eulogies of the Gnostics), Aflaki names a certain ‘Ali as the father of Shams-i Tabrīzī and his grandfather as Malikdad. Apparently basing his calculations on Haji Bektash Veli's Maqālāt (Conversations), Aflaki suggests that Shams arrived in Konya at the age of sixty years. However, various scholars have questioned Aflaki’s reliability.[5]

Shams received his education in Tabriz and was a disciple of Baba Kamal al-Din Jumdi. Before meeting Rumi, he apparently traveled from place to place weaving baskets and selling girdles for a living.[6] Despite his occupation as a weaver, Shams received the epithet of “the embroiderer” (zarduz) in various biographical accounts including that of the Persian historian Dawlatshah. This however, is not the occupation listed by Haji Bektash Veli in the ”Maqālat” and was rather the epithet given to the Ismaili Imam Shams al-din Muhammad, who worked as an embroider while living in anonymity in Tabriz. The transference of the epithet to the biography of Rumi’s mentor suggests that this Imam’s biography must have been known to Shams-i Tabrīzī’s biographers. The specificities of how this transference occurred, however, are not yet known.[7]

Shams’ encounter with Rumi

On 15 November 1244, a man in black suit from head to toe, came to the famous inn of Sugar Merchants of Konya. His name was Shams Tabrizi. He was claiming to be a travelling merchant. As it was said in Haji Bektash Veli's book, "Makalat", he was looking for something. Which he was going to find in Konya. Eventually he found Rumi riding a horse.

One day Rumi was reading next to a large stack of books. Shams Tabriz, passing by, asked him, "What are you doing?" Rumi scoffingly replied, "Something you cannot understand." On hearing this, Shams threw the stack of books into a nearby pool of water. Rumi hastily rescued the books and to his surprise they were all dry. Rumi then asked Shams, "What is this?" To which Shams replied, "Mowlana, this is what you cannot understand."

A second version of the tale has Shams passing by Rumi who again is reading a book. Rumi regards him as an uneducated stranger. Shams asks Rumi what he is doing, to which Rumi replies, "Something that you do not understand!" At that moment, the books suddenly catch fire and Rumi asks Shams to explain what happened. His reply was, "Something you do not understand."[8]

After several years with Rumi in Konya, Shams left and settled in Khoy. As the years passed, Rumi attributed more and more of his own poetry to Shams as a sign of love for his departed friend and master. In Rumi's poetry Shams becomes a symbol of God's love for mankind; Shams was a sun ("Shams" means "Sun" in Persian) shining the Light of God on Rumi.

Death

According to contemporary Sufi tradition, Shams Tabrizi mysteriously disappeared: some say he was killed by close disciples of Mowlana Jalaluddin Rumi who were jealous of the close relationship between Rumi and Shams. It is also said that Shams Tabrizi left Konya and died in Khoy where he was buried. Sultan Walad, Rumi's son, in his Walad-Nama mathnawi just mentions that Shams mysteriously disappeared from Konya with no more specific details.
Shams Tabrizi's tomb in Khoy, beside a tower monument in a memorial park, has been nominated as a World Cultural Heritage Center by UNESCO.[9]


Discourses of Shams-i Tabrīzī

The Maqalat-e Shams-e Tabrizi (Discourses of Shams-i Tabrīzī) is a Persian prose book written by Shams.[10][11] The Maqalat seems to have been written during the later years of Shams, as he speaks of himself as an old man. Overall, it bears a mystical interpretation of Islam and contains spiritual advice. Some excerpts from the Maqalat provide insight into the thoughts of Shams:

Blessing is excess, so to speak, an excess of everything. Don't be content with being a faqih (religious scholar), say I want more - more than being a Sufi (a mystic), more than being a mystic - more than each thing that comes before you.
A good man complains of no one; he does not look to faults.

Joy is like pure clear water; wherever it flows, wondrous blossoms grow...Sorrow is like a black flood; wherever it flows it wilts the blossoms.

And the Persian language, how did it happen? With so much elegance and goodness such that the meanings and elegance that is found in the Persian language is not found in Arabic.[12][13]

An array of mystical poetry, laden with devotional sentiments and strong ‘Alid inclinations, has been attributed to Shams-i Tabrīzī across the Persian Islamic world. Scholars such as Gabrielle van den Berg have sometimes questioned whether these were really authored by Shams-i Tabrīzī. However later scholars have pointed out that it may instead be a question of whether the name Shams-i Tabriz has been used for more than one person. Van den Berg suggests that this identification is the pen name of Rumi. However she acknowledges that, despite the large number of poems attributed to Shams, that comprise the devotional repertoire of the Ismailis of Badakhshan, an overwhelming majority of these cannot be located in any of the existing works of Rumi. Rather, as Virani observes, some of these are located in the “Rose Garden of Shams” (Gulzār-i Shams), authored by Mulukshah, a descendent of the Ismaili Pir Shams, as well as in other works.[14]

newtoboard
2012-12-01, 15:18
I think it was also mentioned that Kurds and Azaris have mixed in Iran a lot. NW Iranians seem to be subset of N. iranians with stronger amounts of Ydna E, J1b, R1b and more G diversity. I don't buy an origin in the SOuth Caucasus for their ydna and an origin in Iran for their maternal DNA. I think R1b either originated in West Iran or East Anatolia but it was probably accompanied by female H lineages which are strongest in N. Iran where R1b is as well. Other than that Urartu, Central Asian turks probably added some ydna (and maybe mtdna too).

Any autosmal dna?

ozkan
2012-12-01, 17:47
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Azerbaijani students from N. Iran

Azeris are just Turkic speaking northwestern Iranians that were speaking a language very close to Kurdish and they are racially and culturally Iranian, them saying that they are Turk is like African slaves brought to America saying that they are English

turboratur
2012-12-01, 19:05
All Iranian now are mixed races , because many races and tribes have attacked and have migrated to Iran from thousand years ago , It is silly and funny that we say Iranian's Ethnicity are pure ! Elamits , Gutiian , Manaiyan , Lulubis , Caspians , Medes , Sarmatian , Persian , cimmerian , scythian , Parthian , Tapurian , Cadusian , Arabs , Jews , Turkmans , Turks , Mongols , ... are a few races that make modern Iranian ethnicity , maybe two village in neighborhood with together have different origins or two families in neighborhood with together in same city or village have different origins , language and religion are Adventitious and are related to Government .

newtoboard
2012-12-02, 14:44
Iranians are mostly native Neolithic natives with some Indo-Iranian ancestry. They don't have much Arab, Jewish ancestry. Nor would anybody consider Parthians, Persians, Medes a different race. Same fro Cimmerian, Sarmatians , Scythians etc. Anatolia is just as mixed by your logic if not more.

turboratur
2012-12-02, 15:11
Iranians are mostly native Neolithic natives with some Indo-Iranian ancestry. They don't have much Arab, Jewish ancestry. Nor would anybody consider Parthians, Persians, Medes a different race. Same fro Cimmerian, Sarmatians , Scythians etc. Anatolia is just as mixed by your logic if not more.

Most of middle eastern country nations are mixed . Before of Arab muslims attack to Iran , Iran have Caste system and only Rulers and nobles were Aryan and lower classes of society were native Neolithic people. Iranian most Ydna's are : J2 , R1a , R1b , G , E , P , F , K , J1 , Q , N , C , N , ... .
It is not clear exactly they were same . Medes , Sarmatian and Parthian were more similar to each other and Persian are more similar to scythian . maybe all of them have same root but they have differences too .

World_citizen
2012-12-02, 15:39
Most of middle eastern country nations are mixed . Before of Arab muslims attack to Iran , Iran have Caste system and only Rulers and nobles were Aryan and lower classes of society were native Neolithic people. Iranian most Ydna's are : J2 , R1a , R1b , G , E , P , F , K , J1 , Q , N , C , N , ... .
It is not clear exactly they were same . Medes , Sarmatian and Parthian were more similar to each other and Persian are more similar to scythian . maybe all of them have same root but they have differences too .

Bullshit, there was no caste system in Iran before the muslim invasion. Iran was Zoroastrian by religion and culture (and still partly is), where caste system did/does not exist. Iranian people mass migrated to the Iranian plateau (aswell as central Asia where they already resided). Other non-Iranian people whom inhabited the Iranian plateau where the Elamites whom lived in south-eastern Iran. This whole elite dominance propoganda is utter rubbish, and lacks any proof of credentials, but then again reading rubbish is all i'm used to on this forum.

ozkan
2012-12-02, 17:07
sorry I cannot quote because that f... ad thing (to bypass it I simply copy the link then delete the ad part but it's really annoying)
cimmerians scythians parthians etc are all of the same iranian racial genetical hg and phenotypical and autosomal stock and are the real and sole native of the iranian plateau and central asia
the other tribes were very minor tribes that did not leave input and we know they were numerically very few and that they were not native because there was not an internal linguistic diversity amongst them as opposed to iranian great internal linguistic diversity (cimmerian scythian sarmatian balooch parthian median tati azari samnani lori etc ....)
@newtoboard, those native populations of iranian plateau and central asia are just iranian and the minor (less than 25%) external input amongst them is basically
1/mongoloid turko-mongol
2/semitic arab and babylonians
3/caucasian hurri and kassite

turboratur
2012-12-02, 18:17
Bullshit, there was no caste system in Iran before the muslim invasion. Iran was Zoroastrian by religion and culture (and still partly is), where caste system did/does not exist. Iranian people mass migrated to the Iranian plateau (aswell as central Asia where they already resided). Other non-Iranian people whom inhabited the Iranian plateau where the Elamites whom lived in south-eastern Iran. This whole elite dominance propoganda is utter rubbish, and lacks any proof of credentials, but then again reading rubbish is all i'm used to on this forum.
Before Islam Iran's Sasanian have caste system : 1.King 2.Zoroastrian priests 3.Martials(Trooper) 4.Farmers 5.Industrialists .
Of course maybe Medes , Achamenids and Parthian don't have this system .
Discussion between Anushrvan ( king of sasanian ) with a Farmer clear it , Anushirvan say to Farmer I never let to your son to educate , if you want this you must first kill me and destroy my army .

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sorry I cannot quote because that f... ad thing (to bypass it I simply copy the link then delete the ad part but it's really annoying)
cimmerians scythians parthians etc are all of the same iranian racial genetical hg and phenotypical and autosomal stock and are the real and sole native of the iranian plateau and central asia
the other tribes were very minor tribes that did not leave input and we know they were numerically very few and that they were not native because there was not an internal linguistic diversity amongst them as opposed to iranian great internal linguistic diversity (cimmerian scythian sarmatian balooch parthian median tati azari samnani lori etc ....)
@newtoboard, those native populations of iranian plateau and central asia are just iranian and the minor (less than 25%) external input amongst them is basically
1/mongoloid turko-mongol
2/semitic arab and babylonians
3/caucasian hurri and kassite

What was/were their racial genetical hg and phenotypical ?

ozkan
2012-12-03, 06:49
They were native caucasoid with autochtonous inputs (west asian and southwestasian) and autochtonous hg's (G J R1a L)
there was also some northeuropean input from the caucasus and southasian input from the indus valley

nk191919
2012-12-03, 16:36
Bullshit, there was no caste system in Iran before the muslim invasion. Iran was Zoroastrian by religion and culture (and still partly is), where caste system did/does not exist. Iranian people mass migrated to the Iranian plateau (aswell as central Asia where they already resided). Other non-Iranian people whom inhabited the Iranian plateau where the Elamites whom lived in south-eastern Iran. This whole elite dominance propoganda is utter rubbish, and lacks any proof of credentials, but then again reading rubbish is all i'm used to on this forum.

We can disagree with each other, but we don't have to be rude to each other.

As far as your post is concerned , it seems that you are incorrect on the two arguments that you have presented. Here are the facts.

For class system during the Medes and Achaemenid Periods here is the link : http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/class-system-ii

As to the Sassanian Period "In Sasanian theory, the ideal society was one which could maintain stability and justice and the necessary instrument for this was a strong monarch. Sasanian society was immensely complex, with separate systems of social organization governing numerous different groups within the empire. Historians believe that society was divided into four classes: Priests (Atorbanan), Warriors (Arteshtaran), Secretaries (Dabiran), and Commoners (Vasteryoshan-Hootkheshan). At the center of the Sasanian caste system was the Shahanshah, ruling over all the nobles. The royal princes, petty rulers, great landlords, and priests together constituted a privileged stratum, and were identified as Bozorgan, or nobles. This social system appears to have been fairly rigid.
Membership in a class was based on birth, although it was possible for an exceptional individual to move to another class on the basis of merit. The function of the king was to ensure that each class remained within its proper boundaries, so that the strong did not oppress the weak, nor the weak the strong. To maintain this social equilibrium was the essence of royal justice, and its effective functioning depended on the glorification of the monarchy above all other classes.

On a lower level, Sasanian society was divided into Azatan (Azadan - freemen), who jealously guarded their status as Aryans, and the mass of peasantry. The Azatan formed a large low-aristocracy of low-level administrators, mostly living on small estates. The Azatan provided the cavalry backbone of Sasanian army."

On to your second point as to the term "elite dominance" which you vehemently disagreed again there is great amount of evidence that points to the fact that you are wrong. Of course what is difficult about these theories is that none of us lived back then, so we must based our theories on obvious archaeological, linguistic evidences.

Let me first explain the term first, which has caused much confusion. The "ELITE Dominance" refers to the process of that an large majority of common people (with another language, culture etc.) adopts the culture and/or language of a minority of elites. Some examples that have occurred in the ME region are that of the Indo-European transformation of Europe, Iran and India, the formation of different Turkic peoples (especially Anatolia and Azerbaijan) and the formation of the Arabization of the most of the Arab and North African world of today. This process does not mean there was no MIGRATION, indeed there were significant number of people moving into the area, but they genetic contribution was limited, becuase their numbers compared to the locals was rather small.

The Process is not to belittle anyone or any culture. Iranian see themselves as the heir of that culture so do the Anatolian and the Arabs of today. But one must look at there thing logically not emotionally.

"Language shift, sometimes referred to as language transfer or language replacement or assimilation, is the process whereby a speech community of a language shifts to speaking another language. Languages perceived to be "higher status" stabilize or spread at the expense of other languages perceived by their own speakers to be "lower-status"."

There are a number of books out there that explain this process. History And Geography Of Human Genes
By Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi, Alberto Piazza
Here is a link to a page in that book. http://books.google.com/books?id=FrwNcwKaUKoC&pg=PA103&lpg=PA102&ots=Hl8WSeKEba&dq=%2522elite+dominance%2522&output=html_text

There is another book which explains the whole ptrocess better. The Human Inheritance: Genes, Language, and Evolution By Bryan Sykes http://books.google.com/books?id=rw2YhuiYlKgC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=%2522elite+dominance%2522&source=bl&ots=gB7dZrQ_7P&sig=PALnTYsHsFtHXeXwBR0oM7Aq-24&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QoC8UP2DFsmS0QGll4DwCw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwBzgU#v=onepage&q&f=false

In addition, Maziar Ashrafian Bonab, a fellow Iranian who is an Iranian Forensic and Medical Geneticist/specializing in forensic genetics and Forensic Facial Reconstruction, has dedicated the past few years of his life to this subject and he has come to the same conclusion.

I have noticed Elias also made a thread to the subject of Elite dominance whicle back here is the link http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/916-Language-shift-and-elite-dominance-how-often

Here are some excerpt from that post.

Conquest by a minority, including Renfrew's elite dominance and system-collapse models.Under conquest, a people, usually with strong social hierarchy and military organization, takes power in a country and imposes its language and usually much of its global cultural inheritance, retaining for itself positions of power and control of wealth. Conquerors, if well-organized, can be a small minority. Two such cases are the previously cited examples of Turkey and Hungary, which are well-known historically and are further studied in chapter 5. In both cases the genetic traces of the invaders are, at best, extremely modest since they were not sufficiently numerous to influence strongly the genetic pool of the previous inhabitants.

Conquest does not always involve language replacement. Several barbarian invasions after the fall of the Roman empire did not have a marked effect on local languages, although in some cases the original barbarians' dialect has been conserved to these days in certain small areas.

In Renfrew's terminology, system collapse, generating a power vacuum, may result in unusual circumstances, giving a chance to certain minorites to take control and impose their language. Two examples cited by Renfrew are the fall of the Roman Empire in Britain, after which Anglo-Saxon mercenaries, perhaps with the help of kin from abroad, acquired power; and the fall of the Myan civilisation around the tenth century A.D., about which much less is known. As acknowledged by Renfrew, this mechanism could be considered a special case of elite dominance.

Unlike Renfrew, who has chosen not to consider genetic aspects of these phenomena, we are interested in joint history. In the demographic-subsistence model, there is clearly replacement of both languages and, at least partially, also of genes. Most elite-dominance situations are likely to leave the genes largely or relatively intact.
— Cavalli-Sforza et al., The History and Geography of Human Genes, ISBN 0691087504, p. 102 (http://books.google.com/books?id=FrwNcwKaUKoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=isbn:0691087504&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

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I think it was also mentioned that Kurds and Azaris have mixed in Iran a lot. NW Iranians seem to be subset of N. iranians with stronger amounts of Ydna E, J1b, R1b and more G diversity. I don't buy an origin in the SOuth Caucasus for their ydna and an origin in Iran for their maternal DNA. I think R1b either originated in West Iran or East Anatolia but it was probably accompanied by female H lineages which are strongest in N. Iran where R1b is as well. Other than that Urartu, Central Asian turks probably added some ydna (and maybe mtdna too).

Any autosmal dna?


The genetic relationship between Kurds and Azeris of Iran was investigated based on human leukocyte antigen (HLA) class II profiles. HLA typing was performed using polymerase chain reaction/restriction fragment-length polymorphism (PCR/RFLP) and PCR/sequence-specific primer (PCR/SSP) methods in 100 Kurds and 100 Azeris. DRB1*1103/04, DQA1*0501 and DQB1*0301 were the most common alleles and DRB1*1103/04-DQA1*0501-DQB1*0301 was the most frequent haplotype in both populations. No significant difference was observed in HLA class II allele distribution between these populations except for DQB1*0503 which showed a higher frequency in Kurds. Neighbor-joining tree based on Nei's genetic distances and correspondence analysis according to DRB1, DQA1 and DQB1 allele frequencies showed a strong genetic tie between Kurds and Azeris of Iran. The results of amova revealed no significant difference between these populations and other major ethnic groups of Iran. No close genetic relationship was observed between Azeris of Iran and the people of Turkey or Central Asians. According to the current results, present-day Kurds and Azeris of Iran seem to belong to a common genetic pool.

Here is a link to the study: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1744-313X.2007.00723.x/abstract;jsessionid=47D617B496634750AE4973F1FF4614 C1.d02t04

newtoboard
2012-12-03, 18:52
Of course there was elite dominance. The elite dominance started in South central Asia and continued to Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. Too bad ancient autosmal DNA from these areas don't exist. But I bet you would find something like Kazakhs/Kyrgyz were 60-70% Northern European, Tajiks, Tukrmen, And Uzbeks 30-50% Northern European, Afghanistan and Pakistan 15-25% and Iran and India 5-10% Northern European.

World_citizen
2012-12-04, 13:31
We can disagree with each other, but we don't have to be rude to each other.

As far as your post is concerned , it seems that you are incorrect on the two arguments that you have presented. Here are the facts.

For class system during the Medes and Achaemenid Periods here is the link : http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/class-system-ii

As to the Sassanian Period "In Sasanian theory, the ideal society was one which could maintain stability and justice and the necessary instrument for this was a strong monarch. Sasanian society was immensely complex, with separate systems of social organization governing numerous different groups within the empire. Historians believe that society was divided into four classes: Priests (Atorbanan), Warriors (Arteshtaran), Secretaries (Dabiran), and Commoners (Vasteryoshan-Hootkheshan). At the center of the Sasanian caste system was the Shahanshah, ruling over all the nobles. The royal princes, petty rulers, great landlords, and priests together constituted a privileged stratum, and were identified as Bozorgan, or nobles. This social system appears to have been fairly rigid.
Membership in a class was based on birth, although it was possible for an exceptional individual to move to another class on the basis of merit. The function of the king was to ensure that each class remained within its proper boundaries, so that the strong did not oppress the weak, nor the weak the strong. To maintain this social equilibrium was the essence of royal justice, and its effective functioning depended on the glorification of the monarchy above all other classes.

On a lower level, Sasanian society was divided into Azatan (Azadan - freemen), who jealously guarded their status as Aryans, and the mass of peasantry. The Azatan formed a large low-aristocracy of low-level administrators, mostly living on small estates. The Azatan provided the cavalry backbone of Sasanian army."

On to your second point as to the term "elite dominance" which you vehemently disagreed again there is great amount of evidence that points to the fact that you are wrong. Of course what is difficult about these theories is that none of us lived back then, so we must based our theories on obvious archaeological, linguistic evidences.

Let me first explain the term first, which has caused much confusion. The "ELITE Dominance" refers to the process of that an large majority of common people (with another language, culture etc.) adopts the culture and/or language of a minority of elites. Some examples that have occurred in the ME region are that of the Indo-European transformation of Europe, Iran and India, the formation of different Turkic peoples (especially Anatolia and Azerbaijan) and the formation of the Arabization of the most of the Arab and North African world of today. This process does not mean there was no MIGRATION, indeed there were significant number of people moving into the area, but they genetic contribution was limited, becuase their numbers compared to the locals was rather small.

The Process is not to belittle anyone or any culture. Iranian see themselves as the heir of that culture so do the Anatolian and the Arabs of today. But one must look at there thing logically not emotionally.

"Language shift, sometimes referred to as language transfer or language replacement or assimilation, is the process whereby a speech community of a language shifts to speaking another language. Languages perceived to be "higher status" stabilize or spread at the expense of other languages perceived by their own speakers to be "lower-status"."

There are a number of books out there that explain this process. History And Geography Of Human Genes
By Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi, Alberto Piazza
Here is a link to a page in that book. http://books.google.com/books?id=FrwNcwKaUKoC&pg=PA103&lpg=PA102&ots=Hl8WSeKEba&dq=%2522elite+dominance%2522&output=html_text

There is another book which explains the whole ptrocess better. The Human Inheritance: Genes, Language, and Evolution By Bryan Sykes http://books.google.com/books?id=rw2YhuiYlKgC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=%2522elite+dominance%2522&source=bl&ots=gB7dZrQ_7P&sig=PALnTYsHsFtHXeXwBR0oM7Aq-24&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QoC8UP2DFsmS0QGll4DwCw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwBzgU#v=onepage&q&f=false

In addition, Maziar Ashrafian Bonab, a fellow Iranian who is an Iranian Forensic and Medical Geneticist/specializing in forensic genetics and Forensic Facial Reconstruction, has dedicated the past few years of his life to this subject and he has come to the same conclusion.

I have noticed Elias also made a thread to the subject of Elite dominance whicle back here is the link http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/916-Language-shift-and-elite-dominance-how-often

Here are some excerpt from that post.

Conquest by a minority, including Renfrew's elite dominance and system-collapse models.Under conquest, a people, usually with strong social hierarchy and military organization, takes power in a country and imposes its language and usually much of its global cultural inheritance, retaining for itself positions of power and control of wealth. Conquerors, if well-organized, can be a small minority. Two such cases are the previously cited examples of Turkey and Hungary, which are well-known historically and are further studied in chapter 5. In both cases the genetic traces of the invaders are, at best, extremely modest since they were not sufficiently numerous to influence strongly the genetic pool of the previous inhabitants.

Conquest does not always involve language replacement. Several barbarian invasions after the fall of the Roman empire did not have a marked effect on local languages, although in some cases the original barbarians' dialect has been conserved to these days in certain small areas.

In Renfrew's terminology, system collapse, generating a power vacuum, may result in unusual circumstances, giving a chance to certain minorites to take control and impose their language. Two examples cited by Renfrew are the fall of the Roman Empire in Britain, after which Anglo-Saxon mercenaries, perhaps with the help of kin from abroad, acquired power; and the fall of the Myan civilisation around the tenth century A.D., about which much less is known. As acknowledged by Renfrew, this mechanism could be considered a special case of elite dominance.

Unlike Renfrew, who has chosen not to consider genetic aspects of these phenomena, we are interested in joint history. In the demographic-subsistence model, there is clearly replacement of both languages and, at least partially, also of genes. Most elite-dominance situations are likely to leave the genes largely or relatively intact.
— Cavalli-Sforza et al., The History and Geography of Human Genes, ISBN 0691087504, p. 102 (http://books.google.com/books?id=FrwNcwKaUKoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=isbn:0691087504&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

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The genetic relationship between Kurds and Azeris of Iran was investigated based on human leukocyte antigen (HLA) class II profiles. HLA typing was performed using polymerase chain reaction/restriction fragment-length polymorphism (PCR/RFLP) and PCR/sequence-specific primer (PCR/SSP) methods in 100 Kurds and 100 Azeris. DRB1*1103/04, DQA1*0501 and DQB1*0301 were the most common alleles and DRB1*1103/04-DQA1*0501-DQB1*0301 was the most frequent haplotype in both populations. No significant difference was observed in HLA class II allele distribution between these populations except for DQB1*0503 which showed a higher frequency in Kurds. Neighbor-joining tree based on Nei's genetic distances and correspondence analysis according to DRB1, DQA1 and DQB1 allele frequencies showed a strong genetic tie between Kurds and Azeris of Iran. The results of amova revealed no significant difference between these populations and other major ethnic groups of Iran. No close genetic relationship was observed between Azeris of Iran and the people of Turkey or Central Asians. According to the current results, present-day Kurds and Azeris of Iran seem to belong to a common genetic pool.

Here is a link to the study: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1744-313X.2007.00723.x/abstract;jsessionid=47D617B496634750AE4973F1FF4614 C1.d02t04

When i read something that i view as rubbish, then i call it that, don't take it personal. It's not meant to offend anyone, but this elite dominace theory is set by certain people with an agenda and that rubs me the wrong way. However there are many faults in this theory, as with all theories there has to be at least some credibility in it to be taken seriously.

First from your own source on caste system it says:

"The almost complete lack of Persian written material from the Achaemenid period makes it difficult to know how the Persians conceived of their society".

Now i don't have much time, but i will says this, in the Zoroastrian religion, caste system is not mentioned anywhere. And Persia was a monarchy, where Zoroastrianism was the dominant religion. One brief example i can give is that Darius was not a heir to the throne, yet he became king. Showing the flexibilty of the Iranian/Persian society of that era.

Secondly about your elite dominance theory, here is why it can't be taken seriously by scholars:

First, again from your own source:

" Persian society in the reign of Cyrus the Great (q.v.; 559-29 B.C.E.) was made up of “numer*ous tribes” (génea), chief among which were the Pasargadai, the Maraphianoi, and the Maspianoi, and each tribe was divided into “clans” (phrātría), the most respected of which was the clan of the Achaemenids, who belonged to the tribe of the Pasargadai. This general outline by the Greek writer reflects the concept that the social groups to which individuals belong are the family (Av. nmāna), the clan (Av. vīs, OPers. viθ), the tribe (Av. zantu), and the country (Av. daŋˊhu, OPers. dahyu; cf. Benveniste, 1969, II, pp. 293-319)"

Like i mentioned earlier, there where many Iranian tribes whom mass migrated to what is now Afghanistan, Iranian plateau, northern Iraq, parts of Turkey, central Asia. Caucasus etc etc. Some theories say they migrated from Ukraine, some say Central Asia, Caucasus etc, but that's not the point. What one has to view are the facts, not tales spread through the internet. And the facts tell us that there where many Aryan languages spoken at the time, showing the imigration of those various Aryan tribes. Here are the ancient and modern spoken Aryan (Iranian) languages: Median, Scythian, (old) Persian, Choresmian, Parthian, Sogdian, Bactrian, Ossetic, Zazaki, old Azari, to present day spoken Baluchi, Pashto, etc etc. Even in today's Iran their are many Iranian languages: Gilaki, Bakhtiari, Kurd, Baluchi, Luri, Shushtari, Talysh, and many more which are less known, all speak Iranian languages where they can't understand each other one bit.

Now what does that tell you? Does that show elite dominance? No because in that case there wouldn't be so many languages, forming the Iranian language tree. There would be 1 dominant language as is the case with South America and Spanish. How many Spanish languages are their spoken in South America? Just 1, Castillian. in Spain the official language is Castillian, the other languages that are spoken are: Basque, Catalan, Galician and Aranese.

Why isn't for example Catalan or Galician spoken in South America? Exactly... in this case we are dealing with elite dominance. Do you get my point amigo?

Iranian people never forced their language or religion to the people they conquered, present day Iraq (Mesopotamia) was under Persian "elite" dominance for over a thousand year, but they never switched their language to Persian, or became Zoroastrian. Neither where they ever forced to do so during history. Again what does that tell you? Also regarding the "elite dominace theory".. which languages where spoken in the Iranian plateau, Afghanistan, Central Asia, etc ect other than known Elamite? If you can at least prove what these langagues or people where, other than vague terms as neolitic people etc, than your "elite dominace" theory can be taken serious by scholars.

Also the least person i would take serious here is Elias, he claims that Assyrians are "pure" and that everyone and everything that shares with Assyrians, are descended from them. He is biased and has an agenda, like most people on this forum. According to him everyone that speaks a Indo European language in West Asia is a product of elite dominace... except Assyrians. A people whom thought of being extinct by scholars not even a 100 years ago untill they magically reappeared, after western colonialism. Elias is obviously a insecure young man desperately in search for a glorious identity.

As you know i'm a Bakhtiari, we speak a Aryan language which a Farsi speaker would never understand, or a Kurd, or a Baluchi etc. We have strong roots. as do all Iranian people (especially nomadic Iranians), but not everyone in Iran has Iranian roots, some have Arabic/Semitic, Caucasian, African, South Asian etc. No one is pure, including me. Iran is a very diverse country, but the people whom created this nation where from various Aryan tribes whom mass migrated to this area. People shouldn't try to rewrite history for their personal agenda, that's not right.

I understand that many people don't have the strong roots which i have, and that they are searching for one, but at least try to be a bit realistic here.

Azeroglu
2012-12-05, 05:28
Azeris are just Turkic speaking northwestern Iranians that were speaking a language very close to Kurdish and they are racially and culturally Iranian, them saying that they are Turk is like African slaves brought to America saying that they are English

How funny is such a absurd claim when Azeris are just evidently different from "northwestern Iranians", culturally, ethnically and everything else. Sorry, what language? The so-called "Old Azari", a fake invention by Ahmad Kasravi? Are you even aware that this is solely his invention, a mere theory, and a purely political one? Ahmad Kasravi is the one who came up with changing ethnic and language name of Turks of Iran to "Azari", go figure.

The term of "Azari" or "Azeri" is a recent one, this was never used for Azerbaijani Turks as a ethnic name. To this day other Iranians largely refer to Azeri Turks as "Tork" and their langauge as "Turki". During Russian Empire period Azerbaijani Turks were officially designated as "Tatar", you will never ever meet "Azeri" or "Azari" being used for Azerbaijani Turks as an ethnic or language term in historical sources.

Changing the name of Turks of Iran to "Azari" was done during reign of Reza Shah, this was part of a broader assimilation policy and it was during the same era that theories (led by Ahmad Kasravi) about Azeri Turks being Iranians was developed. Likewise, in 1936 Soviet leadership changed name of Azerbaijani Turks from "Turk" to "Azerbaijani", and it remained as such. But we never meet such name in historical sources being referred to a ethnicity or languague.

Morover, Azerbaijani Turks identified within clan/tribes in older times, and all these tribes evidently being Turkic. For instance Urmia is regarded to this day as center of Afshar tribe. Azerbaijani Turks also led a nomadic lifestyle for the large part, and such nomadic groups still exist, such as Shahsevens, who still live in yurts and migrate between "Yaylaq" and "Qışlaq".

saran
2012-12-05, 06:27
... One brief example i can give is that Darius was not a heir to the throne, yet he became king. Showing the flexibilty of the Iranian/Persian society of that era.

...

How did you figure this out?
Darius may not have been from the early Elamite royal line, but he was clearly of the collateral Persian royal line - at least that is what I understand - and the Magus Gaumata was the usurper by impersonating a royal relative - and that Darius restored the the royal line.
It actually shows inflexibility, in that, Darius feels only someone of royal lineage, and not a Magus, can be the rightful ruler. This is also evident as the usurper had to pretend to be royal lineage to be considered.

"1. I am Darius the Great King, King of Kings, King in Persia, King of countries, son of Hystaspes, grandson of Arsames, an Achaemenian.

2. Darius the King says: My father was Hystaspes; Hystaspes' father was Arsames; Arsames' father was Ariaramnes; Ariaramnes' father was Teispes; Teispes' father was Achaemenes.

3. Darius the King says: For this reason we are called Achaemenians. From long ago we have been noble. From long ago our family had been kings.

4. Darius the King says: there were 8 of our family who were kings before me; I am the ninth; 9 in succession we have been kings.
...
Darius the King says: This is what was done by me after I became king. A son of Cyrus, Cambyses by name, of our family -- he was king here of that Cambyses there was a brother, Smerdis by name, having the same mother and the same father as Cambyses. Afterwards, Cambyses slew that Smerdis. When Cambyses slew Smerdis, it did not become known to the people that Smerdis had been slain. Afterwards, Cambyses went to Egypt. When Cambyses had gone off to Egypt, after that the people became evil. After that the Lie waxed great in the country, both in Persia and in Media and in the other provinces.

11. Darius the King says: Afterwards, there was one man, a Magian, named Gaumata; he rose up from Paishiyauvada. A mountain named Arakadri -- from there 14 days of the month Viyakhna were past when he rose up. He lied to the people thus: "I am Smerdis, the son of Cyrus, brother of Cambyses." After that, all the people became rebellious from Cambyses, (and) went over to him, both Persia and Media and the other provinces. He seized the kingdom; of the month Garmapada 9 days were past, then he seized the kingdom. After that, Cambyses died by his own hand.

12. Darius the King says: This kingdom which Gaumata the Magian took away from Cambyses, this kingdom from long ago had belonged to our family. After that, Gaumata the Magian took (it) from Cambyses; he took to himself both Persia and Media and the other provinces, he made (them) his own possession, he became king.

Darius the King says: There was not a man, neither a Persian nor a Mede nor anyone of our family, who might make that Gaumata the Magian deprived of the kingdom. The people feared him greatly, (thinking that) he would slay in numbers the people who previously had known Smerdis; for this reason he would slay the people, "lest they know me, that I am not Smerdis the son of Cyrus." Nobody dared say anything about Gaumata the Magian, until I came. After that I sought help of Ahuramazda; Ahuramazda bore me aid; of the month Bagayadi 10 days were past, then I with a few men slew that Gaumata the Magian, and those who were his foremost followers. A fortress named Sikayauvati, a district named Nisaya, in Media -- here I slew him. I took the kingdom from him. By the favor of Ahuramazda I became king; Ahuramazda bestowed the kingdom upon me."
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/darius/darius_inscription_biston.php

nk191919
2012-12-05, 13:55
Other non-Iranian people whom inhabited the Iranian plateau where the Elamites whom lived in south-eastern Iran.

"How Great, Old and Mysterious is Iran" Sadeq Hedayat

I am not sure about such Statements that are basically contrary to my thinking. Iran has always existed. There is no such a thing as non-Iranians. To be an Iranian does not mean you must belong to any particular tribe or family of languages. This is just a as RUBBISH as a statement can be. Iranians did NOT come at some given date from some other place into their present homeland; indeed they did not. They and their culture are the progeny of an evolution of native inhabitants and cultures of the Iranian Plateau coming to us from remote antiquity. Iran's history has no Beginning in a sense will have no End. Today Iranians are the descendants of all the Iranians civilization that have existed in Iran from Antiquity to Present.

adsız
2012-12-05, 14:29
How funny is such a absurd claim when Azeris are just evidently different from "northwestern Iranians", culturally, ethnically and everything else. Sorry, what language? The so-called "Old Azari", a fake invention by Ahmad Kasravi? Are you even aware that this is solely his invention, a mere theory, and a purely political one? Ahmad Kasravi is the one who came up with changing ethnic and language name of Turks of Iran to "Azari", go figure.

The term of "Azari" or "Azeri" is a recent one, this was never used for Azerbaijani Turks as a ethnic name. To this day other Iranians largely refer to Azeri Turks as "Tork" and their langauge as "Turki". During Russian Empire period Azerbaijani Turks were officially designated as "Tatar", you will never ever meet "Azeri" or "Azari" being used for Azerbaijani Turks as an ethnic or language term in historical sources.

Changing the name of Turks of Iran to "Azari" was done during reign of Reza Shah, this was part of a broader assimilation policy and it was during the same era that theories (led by Ahmad Kasravi) about Azeri Turks being Iranians was developed. Likewise, in 1936 Soviet leadership changed name of Azerbaijani Turks from "Turk" to "Azerbaijani", and it remained as such. But we never meet such name in historical sources being referred to a ethnicity or languague.

Morover, Azerbaijani Turks identified within clan/tribes in older times, and all these tribes evidently being Turkic. For instance Urmia is regarded to this day as center of Afshar tribe. Azerbaijani Turks also led a nomadic lifestyle for the large part, and such nomadic groups still exist, such as Shahsevens, who still live in yurts and migrate between "Yaylaq" and "Qışlaq".


He is a k-rd... not easy to train them.

nk191919
2012-12-05, 14:33
When i read something that i view as rubbish, then i call it that, don't take it personal. It's not meant to offend anyone, but this elite dominace theory is set by certain people with an agenda and that rubs me the wrong way. However there are many faults in this theory, as with all theories there has to be at least some credibility in it to be taken seriously.

First from your own source on caste system it says:

"The almost complete lack of Persian written material from the Achaemenid period makes it difficult to know how the Persians conceived of their society".

Now i don't have much time, but i will says this, in the Zoroastrian religion, caste system is not mentioned anywhere. And Persia was a monarchy, where Zoroastrianism was the dominant religion. One brief example i can give is that Darius was not a heir to the throne, yet he became king. Showing the flexibilty of the Iranian/Persian society of that era.

Secondly about your elite dominance theory, here is why it can't be taken seriously by scholars:

First, again from your own source:

" Persian society in the reign of Cyrus the Great (q.v.; 559-29 B.C.E.) was made up of “numer*ous tribes” (génea), chief among which were the Pasargadai, the Maraphianoi, and the Maspianoi, and each tribe was divided into “clans” (phrātría), the most respected of which was the clan of the Achaemenids, who belonged to the tribe of the Pasargadai. This general outline by the Greek writer reflects the concept that the social groups to which individuals belong are the family (Av. nmāna), the clan (Av. vīs, OPers. viθ), the tribe (Av. zantu), and the country (Av. daŋˊhu, OPers. dahyu; cf. Benveniste, 1969, II, pp. 293-319)"

Like i mentioned earlier, there where many Iranian tribes whom mass migrated to what is now Afghanistan, Iranian plateau, northern Iraq, parts of Turkey, central Asia. Caucasus etc etc. Some theories say they migrated from Ukraine, some say Central Asia, Caucasus etc, but that's not the point. What one has to view are the facts, not tales spread through the internet. And the facts tell us that there where many Aryan languages spoken at the time, showing the imigration of those various Aryan tribes. Here are the ancient and modern spoken Aryan (Iranian) languages: Median, Scythian, (old) Persian, Choresmian, Parthian, Sogdian, Bactrian, Ossetic, Zazaki, old Azari, to present day spoken Baluchi, Pashto, etc etc. Even in today's Iran their are many Iranian languages: Gilaki, Bakhtiari, Kurd, Baluchi, Luri, Shushtari, Talysh, and many more which are less known, all speak Iranian languages where they can't understand each other one bit.

Now what does that tell you? Does that show elite dominance? No because in that case there wouldn't be so many languages, forming the Iranian language tree. There would be 1 dominant language as is the case with South America and Spanish. How many Spanish languages are their spoken in South America? Just 1, Castillian. in Spain the official language is Castillian, the other languages that are spoken are: Basque, Catalan, Galician and Aranese.

Why isn't for example Catalan or Galician spoken in South America? Exactly... in this case we are dealing with elite dominance. Do you get my point amigo?

Iranian people never forced their language or religion to the people they conquered, present day Iraq (Mesopotamia) was under Persian "elite" dominance for over a thousand year, but they never switched their language to Persian, or became Zoroastrian. Neither where they ever forced to do so during history. Again what does that tell you? Also regarding the "elite dominace theory".. which languages where spoken in the Iranian plateau, Afghanistan, Central Asia, etc ect other than known Elamite? If you can at least prove what these langagues or people where, other than vague terms as neolitic people etc, than your "elite dominace" theory can be taken serious by scholars.

Also the least person i would take serious here is Elias, he claims that Assyrians are "pure" and that everyone and everything that shares with Assyrians, are descended from them. He is biased and has an agenda, like most people on this forum. According to him everyone that speaks a Indo European language in West Asia is a product of elite dominace... except Assyrians. A people whom thought of being extinct by scholars not even a 100 years ago untill they magically reappeared, after western colonialism. Elias is obviously a insecure young man desperately in search for a glorious identity.

As you know i'm a Bakhtiari, we speak a Aryan language which a Farsi speaker would never understand, or a Kurd, or a Baluchi etc. We have strong roots. as do all Iranian people (especially nomadic Iranians), but not everyone in Iran has Iranian roots, some have Arabic/Semitic, Caucasian, African, South Asian etc. No one is pure, including me. Iran is a very diverse country, but the people whom created this nation where from various Aryan tribes whom mass migrated to this area. People shouldn't try to rewrite history for their personal agenda, that's not right.

I understand that many people don't have the strong roots which i have, and that they are searching for one, but at least try to be a bit realistic here.


I think Saran did a good job of answering your statement on Caste System or Class System in Iran. Also we must note that the Caste system seems to be a Indo-Iranian aspect to it. This is consistent with the Arrival of the Indo-Iranians to both Iranian Plateau and Indian Subcontinent.

As to the second point on "Elite Dominance". I have only been a member of this Forum for 2 months or so. I do not know much about anybody, and I have no hidden agenda. I joined this site mainly for scientific purposes. I enjoy following few of the user. Most of the posts are non-sense. I understand there are lot of people who are ultra nationalistic. I have seen post that say Turks must go to Mongolia, belittle Arabs, Iranians, Assyrians, Armenians, Kurds, Jews, Muslims, and various other groups that are part of the ME family and nations. That is not ME. I don't subscribe to any of these ideology. I respect and admire all ME people.

However, science is based on facts and data, not Myths and superstitious. The concept of "elite dominance is a complicated one, and sometimes it people have a tendency to get emotional about it.

It does not MEAN there was no Migration, indeed there had to be a migration, otherwise nothing would have happened. However, the change of Language and Culture occurred because the Native embraced these changes. When the Aryans arrived in Iran, they did not kill any of the people who had previously lived in Iran. However, they successively through various policies were able to promote their languages and culture to the local people.

Again this is not to demean or belittle any culture or civilization. But this process has occurred many places. Han China is another example where Mandarin language spread in China through the process of "Elite Dominance".

The simple fact that the most common Y-DNA in Iran is J2 is proof enough that some Iranians are indeed West Asians and have been natives of West Asia for a long time. However, Iranian civilization has been influenced by many people who migrated to Iran, and eventually became Iranians, they always became Iranians. This is true of the Aryans and more recently the Oghuz Turks.

My own family is of Bayat Tribe and My Y-DNA is R1a1a which seems to be connected to the Aryans or the Indo-Iranians. However, the Bayat people became Turkish Speaking in the 11th century when Turkmen Tribes moved to Khorasan, and their language was adopted by Iranians and the Turkmens form NW iran became Iranians too. That is the richness of Iranian civilization and culture. That is the beauty of what I call Iran. Bayat is the name of an originally Turkic clan in Iran which traces its origin to the 12th century. The first location of the Bayat clan was the city of Nishapur in the south of Khorasan, a state in the north-east of Iran. The Bayat clan moved in 16th century to three different locations after attacks by Mongol forces.

When the Mongols attacked Iran, the Bayat Tribe migrated from Nishapour area to the West. Some Settled in Azerbaijan some in Hamadan, some in Shiraz, some in Arak, some in Zanjan, some in Iraq etc. But we remained Iranian and we considered ourselves true and genuine Iranians.

Here are some famous Bayats:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Fuz%C3%BBl%C3%AE.jpg

Fużūlī (or Fuduli, فضولی; Azerbaijani: Füzuli, c. 1483 – 1556) was the pen name of the Azerbaijani[1][2][3] or the Bayat branch of Oghuz Turkic[4][5][6] and Ottoman poet, writer and thinker Muhammad bin Suleyman (محمد بن سليمان). Often considered one of the greatest contributors to the Dîvân tradition of Azerbaijani literature,[7] Fuzûlî in fact wrote his collected poems (dîvân) in three different languages: in his native[8] Azerbaijani Turkic, Persian, and Arabic. Although his Turkish works are written in the Azeri dialect of Turkish, he was well-versed in both the Ottoman and the Chagatai Turkic literary traditions as well. He was also well versed in mathematics and astronomy.[9]

http://blogs.rtl.be/lesfooteux/files/2010/10/bayata-blog.jpg

Abbas Bayat (Persian: عباس بيات‎, born 14 July 1947 in Tehran) is an Iranian businessman. He is the chairman of Belgian football club Charleroi.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Morteza-Qoli_Bayat.jpg

Morteza Gholi Bayat (Mortezā Qoli Bayāt, aka Sahām al-Soltān, 1890-1958) was a Prime Minister of Iran.

http://www.parstimes.com/gallery/asef_bayat/asef_bayat_01.jpg


Asef Bayat (Ph.D. University of Kent 1984) is Professor of Sociology and Middle Eastern studies at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. He was Professor of Sociology and Middle Eastern studies and held the Chair of Society and Culture of the Modern Middle East at Leiden University, The Netherlands. He was the Academic Director of the International Institute for the Study of Islam in the Modern World (ISIM) and ISIM Chair of Islam and the Modern World at Leiden University from 2003 until 2009.


My suggestion to you is to widen your vision of what Iran is and what it will be.

newtoboard
2012-12-05, 14:49
Nk are the azaris in the talysh area of azerbaijan republic closer to iranian azaris or republic ones?

And yes genetic studies indicate Iranian Azaris are closer to iranians than republic azerbaijanis. Nor is Old Azari a invention but I am sure some morons on here will argue Azerbaijan was Turkic speaking right just like Khuzestan was always Arabic speaking and Turkmens always existed in NE Iran. parthians never existed. nether did medians/Old azaris or elamites (and persians/lurs) in khuzestan. all lies made up by nationalist iranians with an agenda right?

nk191919
2012-12-05, 15:18
Nk are the azaris in the talysh area of azerbaijan republic closer to iranian azaris or republic ones?

And yes genetic studies indicate Iranian Azaris are closer to iranians than republic azerbaijanis. Nor is Old Azari a invention but I am sure some morons on here will argue Azerbaijan was Turkic speaking right just like Khuzestan was always Arabic speaking and Turkmens always existed in NE Iran. parthians never existed. nether did medians/Old azaris or elamites (and persians/lurs) in khuzestan. all lies made up by nationalist iranians with an agenda right?

It seems that they are indeed genetically close to Iranian Azeris (genetically). They are of course citizens of Republic of Azerbaijan and not of Iran.

Indeed, Fabrication of History is the passtime of these Pan and Ultra Nationalistic Movements.
:)

newtoboard
2012-12-05, 16:26
It seems that they are indeed genetically close to Iranian Azeris (genetically). They are of course citizens of Republic of Azerbaijan and not of Iran.

Indeed, Fabrication of History is the passtime of these Pan and Ultra Nationalistic Movements.
:)

Yea. It seems like the Talysh language will be extinct soon unless they get independence or join iran. Sad.

nk191919
2012-12-05, 16:56
Yea. It seems like the Talysh language will be extinct soon unless they get independence or join iran. Sad.

It not unique to Iran or Azerbaijan. But history tells us, that if a language does not adapt it risks extinction. As economic and cultural globalization and development continue to push forward, growing numbers of languages will become endangered and eventually, extinct. With increasing economic integration on national and regional scales, people find it easier to communicate and conduct business in the dominant languages of world commerce. By some accounts half of the world languages may eventually become extinct.

As for the case of Talysh, we don't know. We cannot predict the future.

- - - Updated - - -

The Smithsonian Institution's senior linguist, Ives Goddard, estimates that - without a concerted effort to save them and teach them to the young - half the world's 6,000 surviving languages will be extinct within this century.

nk191919
2012-12-05, 18:27
http://pantone201.ca/webskins/vote/candidate_photos/9075.jpg


Reza Moridi (Persian: رضا مریدی) [1] is a Canadian politician, and the first Iranian-Canadian elected to a provincial or federal legislature in Canada.[2][3][4][5][6] He was elected to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario in the 2007 provincial election, representing the riding of Richmond Hill. He is a member of the Liberal Party.
Moridi was born in Urmia in northwest Iran. He was educated in the UK and he obtained a PhD from Brunel University in engineering. He has lived in Richmond Hill since 1991.


http://www.humanrightsblog.org/archives/jahan.jpg


http://payvand.com/news/09/nov/Ramin-Jahanbegloo.jpg

Ramin Jahanbegloo (Persian: رامین جهانبگلو‎, born 1956 in Tehran) is an Iranian philosopher and academic who is currently based in Canada.

Jahanbegloo was born in Tehran, Iran. He has a doctorate in philosophy from Sorbonne University in Paris, France where he lived for twenty years.[1] He was a post-doctorate fellow in Middle Eastern Studies at Harvard University.

http://www.ilyasafandiyev.com/wp-content/uploads/1999/03/lotfi.jpg


Lotfali Askar Zadeh (born February 4, 1921), better known as Lotfi A. Zadeh, is a mathematician, electrical engineer, computer scientist, artificial intelligence researcher and professor emeritus[1] of computer science at the University of California, Berkeley.

Zadeh was born in Baku, Azerbaijan SSR,[2] as Lotfi Aliaskerzadeh,[3] to an Iranian Azeri father from Ardabil, Rahim Aleskerzade, who was a journalist on assignment from Iran, and a Russian Jewish mother,[4] Fanya Koriman, who was a pediatrician.[5

http://kpitalrisk.free.fr/images/stars/22000/s_s_hossein_.jpg


http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~katers-murr/IN_EJ1210-084.jpg


André Hossein, born Aminoullah Husseinov (Persian: امين الله حسين‎; Russian: Аминулла Гусейнов; Azerbaijani: Əminulla Hüseynov 1905, Samarkand – 9 August 1983, Paris) was a celebrated Iranian[1] composer of Neo-Romantic music and a tar soloist residing in France.[2]
His mother was a Persian woman from Samarkand (present-day Uzbekistan) and his father was a merchant, originally from Azerbaijan. Aminollah Hossein lived for a few years in Persia (Iran) before he left the country for his academic studies.

His son, Robert Hossein, has written that André Hossein studied in Moscow, Russia and later in Germany where he attended a music academy in Stuttgart and the Berlin Conservatory from 1934 to 1937. His fascination with pre-Islamic Persia led him to convert to Zoroastrianism. His newfound religion immensely influenced his musical work in symphonies such as "Persian Miniature", "I love my Country", and "Symphony Persepolis".[3][4] He married Anna Minevskaya, a Jewish comedy actress from Kiev,[5] who had immigrated to Paris, France, with her parents after the October Revolution.[6][7] He spent the rest of his life in France. He also studied privately under Paul Antoine Vidal in Conservatoire de Paris.

nk191919
2012-12-06, 17:32
Azerbaijan or Azarbaijan (Persian: آذربایجان; Āzarbāijān‎; Azerbaijani: آذربایجان, Kurdish: ئازه*ربایجان ), also Iranian Azerbaijan, Persian Azarbaijan[1] is a region in northwestern Iran. It is also historically known as Atropatene and Aturpatakan. The region is referred by some as South Azerbaijan or Southern Azerbaijan,[2] however some scholars and sources view these terms as being irredentist and politically motivated.[3][4][5]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Shomalgharb-Iran.png/652px-Shomalgharb-Iran.png

The name "Āzar" (Persian: آذر‎) means Fire and Baijan was originally known as "Pāyegān" (Persian: پایگان‎) meaning Guardian/Protector. (Āzar Pāyegān = "Guardians of Fire") (Persian: آذر پایگان‎). Such name roots back to the "Zoroastrianism" era of Persia (Iran); However after the Arab invasion of Persia (Iran) many Persian words lost their original form as in Arabic there are no letter for pronouncing "G / P / ZH / CH"; Hence "Azar Paigān" came to be known as Azarbaijan. (e.g. The Persian language in Persian is now both known as "Pārsi" (Persian: پارسی‎) & Fārsi due to the Arabs invasion of "Greater Iran" (Persia) and the great resistance of Iranians around the north.

The name Azerbaijan itself is derived from Atropates,[6] the Satrap (governor) of Medea in the Achaemenid empire, who ruled a region found in modern Iranian Azerbaijan called Atropatene. Atropates name is believed to be derived from the Old Persian roots meaning "protected by fire."[7] The name is also mentioned in the Avestan Frawardin Yasht: âterepâtahe ashaonô fravashîm ýazamaide which translates literally to: We worship the Fravashi of the holy Atare-pata.[8] َAccording to the Encyclopedia of Islam, the name of the province was pronounced as: In Middle Persian the name of the province was called Āturpātākān, older new-Persian Ādharbādhagān آذربادگان/آذرآبادگان, Ādharbāyagān, at present Āzerbāydjān/Āzarbāydjān, Greek ᾿Ατροπατήνη, Byzantine Greek ᾿Αδραβιγάνων, Armenian Atrpatakan, Syriac Adhorbāyghān.[9] The name Atropat in Middle Persian was transformed to Adharbad and is connected with Zoroastrianism. A famous Zoroastrian priest by the name Adarbad Mahraspandan is well known for his counsels.[10] Azerbaijan, due to its numerous fire-temples has also been quoted in a variety of historic sources as being the birthplace of the prophet Zoroaster although modern scholars have not yet reached an agreement on the location of his birth

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Persia_600ad.jpg/800px-Persia_600ad.jpg


According to the population census of 2006,[21][22] the four provinces of East Azerbaijan (2006 pop. 3,603,456), West Azarbaijan (2006 pop. 2,873,459), Zanjan (2006 pop. 970,946), and Ardabil (2006 pop. 1,228,155) have a combined population of 7.9 million people.
Chief cities include Tabriz (the capital of East Azerbaijan), Urmia (the capital of West Azerbaijan), Zanjan (the capital of Zanjan Province), Ardabil (the capital of Ardabil), Maragheh, Marand, Mahabad, Piranshahr, and Khoy (Khvoy).


Iranian Azeris, a Turkic-speaking people of mixed Caucasian, Iranian and Turkic origin,[15] who number 16 percent of Iran's population[16][17] are the largest group in Iranian Azerbaijan, while Kurds are the second largest group, and a majority in many cities of the West Azerbaijan Province.[18] Iranian Azerbaijan is one of the richest and most densely populated regions of Iran. Many of these various linguistic, religious, and tribal minority groups, and Azerbaijanis themselves have settled widely outside the region.[19] The Azeris are followers of Shi'a Islam. Azeris make up the majority of the population in the Iranian region of Azerbaijan. The Azeri population of Iran is mainly found in the northwest provinces: East Azerbaijan, West Azerbaijan, Ardabil, and Zanjan as well as some regions of Kordestan, Hamadan, Qazvin and Markazi. Many others live in Tehran, Karaj and other regions.[20]


Smaller groups of Armenians, Assyrians, Talyshs, Jews, Georgians, and Persians also inhabit the region.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Wikipedia_10_Tabriz.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Maqbaratoshoara02.jpg



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EHRmj3x1gY0/TRyYhRyikcI/AAAAAAAAB6c/dV2HUGZQdQU/s1600/IMG_7904.jpg

nk191919
2012-12-06, 18:42
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.1&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.2&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.3&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.4&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1


Bābak Khorram-Din (Formally known as "Pāpak" meaning "Young Father") (Persian: بابک خرمدین‎, alternative spelling: Bābak Xorramdin; 795, according to some other sources 798—January 838 [1]) was one of the main Persian[2][3][4][5][6][7] revolutionary leaders of the Iranian[8] Khorram-Dinān[9] ("Those of the joyous religion"), which was a local freedom movement fighting the Abbasid Caliphate. Khorramdin appears to be a compound analogous to dorustdin (orthodox) and Behdin "Good Religion" (Zoroastrianism),[10] and are considered an offshoot of neo-Mazdakism.[11] Babak's Iranianizing[12] rebellion, from its base in Azerbaijan in northwestern Iran,[13] called for a return of the political glories of the Iranian[14] past. The Khorramdin rebellion of Babak spread to the Western and Central parts of Iran and lasted more than twenty years before it was defeated. Babak's uprising showed the continuing strength in Azerbaijan of ancestral Iranian local feelings.[1


Babak is the arabicised form of the Iranian name Pāpak.[16][17][18] Babak means "young father" in Persian (Pédaré Javān)

Bābak was born into a Persian[2][5] family in Āzerbāijān (northwestern Iran) close to the city of Artavilla (modern Ardabil). According to Wāqed ben Amr Tamimi, the oldest biographer on Babak, Bābak's father was a Persian from Madā'īn (formerly known as Ctesiphon, capital of Sassanian Persian Empire, 35 km south of modern Baghdad in Iraq) who left for the Āzarbāijān frontier zone and settled in the village of Balālābād in the Maymadh district. According to Fasīh, his mother - a native Persian of Āzarbāijān - was known as Māhrū (meaning Moon-Face/Belle in Persian).[10]

Babak Khoramdin is considered as one of the most heroic freedom fighters of Iran who initiated the Khoramdinan movement. It was a freedom fighting movement aimed to overthrow the (Abbasid) Caliph and at the time rulers of Iran. Babak Khoramdin was born in the 8th century in Balal Abad region of Azarbaijan (Northwest of Iran), close to the city of Ardabil. His father died when he was in his teens and the responsibility of his 2 brothers and mother fell on his shoulders. By age 18, Babak had already established himself in the city of Tabriz, and was engaged in the arms trade and industry. His engagement in businesses gave him the opportunity to travel throughout the Central Asia and Eastern Europe.


In the 8th century Iran was under the rule of Caliphs and hence unrest and resistance was growing in all the Iranian provinces. Many Iranians started revolts in different regions of the country in order to regain their freedom. This in turn, forced the Caliphs to use more violence against the Iranian population in order to keep the country under control. Moreover, Azarbaijan which was at the time the only region in the country that Iranians were resisting bani Abbas was constantly under the ravage of Bani Abbas (Caliph) to expand Islam further North. During this time, Azarbaijan defended itself through the leadership of Javanshir, who was in control of Azarbaijan at the time. Witnessing all this pressure being exerted on the people, Babak joined the “Khuramiyan (Khoramdinan)” movement in what later became known as “Ghaleye Babak” meaning “Babak fortress”, located in the mountains of Qaradag.


Babak's knowledge of history, geography, and the latest battle tactics strengthened his position as a favorite candidate for commander during the early wars against the Caliph Rules. After a number of victories against the Bani Abbas, Javanshir became severely injured and passed away, hence Babak took over the movement's leadership. One of the most dramatic periods in the history of Iran was set under Babak’s leadership between 816-837. During these most crucial years, they not only fought against the Caliphate. Eventually, Babak, his wife, and his warriors were forced to leave Ghaleye Babak (the fortress of Babak) after 23 years of constant campaigns. He was eventually betrayed by an officer under his command named Afshin and was handed over to the Abbasid Caliph.


During Babak’s execution, the Caliph’s henchmen first cut off his legs and hands in order to convey the most devastating message to his followers. Legend has it that Babak bravely rinsed his face with the drained blood pouring out of his cuts, thus depriving the Caliph and the rest of the Abbasid army from seeing his pale face, a result of the heavy loss of blood.

Babak Khorramdin was not well known outside academia until the 20th century; however, due to Soviet nation building efforts and Babak's following of teaching of Mazdak with its pseudo-communist and socialist themes, Babak Khorramdin was proclaimed a national hero in the Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist Republic. For example, the Soviet era scholar Ziya Bunyadov, claimed that "Babak was a national heroe of Azeri people" while the Russian ethnologist, historian and anthropologist Victor Schnirelmann dismisses Bunyadov's theory, criticizing Bunyadov for not mentioning that Babak spoke Persian, and ignoring the witness accounts of Babak's contemporaries who call him Persian.[27] To this day, in the modern Republic of Azerbaijan, Babak is a cult figure and celebrated as a national hero.[28] In modern Iran, due to rise of nationalism in 20th century, and renewed interest in pre-Islamic Iran, Babak Khorramdin was rediscovered during the reign of Reza Shah, and is celebrated as a national hero.[29][30] However, Babak remains a controversial figure in the Islamic Republic, whose idolization is criticized by some Shia clerics.[29] [31]


Here are some pictures of the Fortress of Babak where he defended Iran against the Caliph rule in Iran.


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.5&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.6&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.7&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.8&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.9&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.10&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=65fbbf03f0&view=att&th=13b71211104fb6c8&attid=0.11&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1

nk191919
2012-12-06, 19:58
Kandovan village

Tucked away in the northwest corner of Iran is the quaint and mysterious thirteenth century village of Kandovan. Located in Iran's East Azerbaijan Province, Kandovan is 60 km south of the provincial capital Tabriz in Osku county. The 60 km drive to Kandovan south from Tabriz passes through Khosrowshahr and ascends the slopes of the hills at the base of Kuh-e (Mount) Sahand through the Osku Chai valley. Chai or Chay is a Turkic word for river.

The village of Kandovan is also part of the Lake Urmia region (also spelt Urmiyeh or Urmiya), the region where the predecessors of the Persians and the Medes first entered recorded history in a 844 BCE Assyrian inscription, and the region that is central to the start of the second phase of Zoroastrian history.

What makes Kandovan village so unique is that many of its homes have been made in caves located in cone-shaped, naturally formed compressed volcanic ash formations that make the landscape look like a gigantic termite colony. This method of dwelling makes the residents modern-age cave dwellers or troglodytes. (Troglodyte means cave dweller: somebody living in a cave, especially somebody who belonged to a prehistoric cave-dwelling community. Troglodyte also means somebody living in seclusion.)

Meaning of Kandovan

The houses are known as Karan in the local dialect. One interpretation has the word Kandovan being a plural form of kando, a bee's hive. Another interpretation says that Kandovan means Land of Unknown Carvers. The use of 'van' to indicate the plural is found in the Avesta: cf. ashavan. Nowadays, residents speak a Turkic dialect but have traditional Iranian family names, names such as Kayani. The mountains and rivers in the region have both Persian and Turkic - and perhaps even Assyrian - names.

Kandovan's Age

The present residents say that their village is around 700 years old, and was formed by people fleeing from an advancing Mongol army and who used the caves as a refugee and a place of hiding. Even after the Mongol occupation of the country came to an end, many of the refugees decided to continue living in the caves and gradually expanded their cave homes to form permanent multi-storey houses. Another legend states that eight hundred years ago a body of soldiers hid in the caves during a military campaign.

However, there are indications that the present cave dwellers are successors of earlier 1600-3000 years ago cave dwellers which would have made them contemporaneous to the first known presence of Zoroastrians in the region.

Here are some pictures of the Village as it exists today.

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/images/kandovan/FlickrBasheem.jpg



http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/images/kandovan/Minerva35.jpg


http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/images/kandovan/iran_08.jpg


http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/images/kandovan/iran_06.jpg

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/images/kandovan/iran_01.jpg




http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/images/kandovan/iran_09.jpg



http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/images/kandovan/iran_17.jpg


http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/images/kandovan/iran_18.jpg


A nice Video on the village


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjz_x_sQE0I


Here are some Faces of the Village of Kandovan.

http://watermarked.impactphotos.com/2366569.jpg


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2489/4139039078_9795e31485_z.jpg


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4106/5071671757_123dd85f42_z.jpg


http://persiatours.com/image/kandovan.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_f7r1YpsP1g0/SIopSVDaAbI/AAAAAAAAAOg/OYKdP7a8eXw/s400/InKandovanWithProud.jpg


http://www.babakoto.eu/Weblogs/Jul-07/First-week-Iran/Man-in-Kandovan.jpg



http://www.babakoto.eu/Articles/Iran/Flashback/girls-kandovan.jpg


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6449205015_6a92640706.jpg


http://www.mirutadelaseda.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/P8241074-Iran-Kandovan.jpg


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/97/249852286_f310d8bf25.jpg


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oTdmD7BO6hQ/TzGO-NsLe-I/AAAAAAAAAEo/wQGygecyd28/s640/Kandovan-Man-&-Child.jpg


There is also a Five star Hotel in Kandovan. Here are some pictures of the hotel.

http://www.iranhotelreservation.com/kandovan.jpg


http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/35/35/fa/laleh-kandovan-international.jpg


http://www.holidaycheck.com/data/urlaubsbilder/mittel/92/1158448021.jpg


http://25.icrad.ir/Images/KANDOVAN_hotel1.jpg


http://lh6.ggpht.com/-AX0LU03SAuo/SlbPOEoHCrI/AAAAAAAACfY/UpxP5XSdDkA/DSC02157.JPG

World_citizen
2012-12-06, 20:46
"How Great, Old and Mysterious is Iran" Sadeq Hedayat

I am not sure about such Statements that are basically contrary to my thinking. Iran has always existed. There is no such a thing as non-Iranians. To be an Iranian does not mean you must belong to any particular tribe or family of languages. This is just a as RUBBISH as a statement can be. Iranians did NOT come at some given date from some other place into their present homeland; indeed they did not. They and their culture are the progeny of an evolution of native inhabitants and cultures of the Iranian Plateau coming to us from remote antiquity. Iran's history has no Beginning in a sense will have no End. Today Iranians are the descendants of all the Iranians civilization that have existed in Iran from Antiquity to Present.

There appears to be some misunderstanding between us mate. I don't mean that there are Iranians whom are more Iranian because of their ancestry, that's absolutely NOT what i'm implying here. A person doesn't have to have any Iranian ancestry for me to consider them Iranian, when someone is born in Iran or lives in Iran no matter what background is already 100% Iranian.

As you said Iran like most other countries in the world is a mixed country, which is wonderful. But the discussion is about "Elite Dominance" taking place in the region, which like i said earlier can't be the case with Iranian languages, considering the many Iranian languages spoken in ancient times up untill the present, the differences within the Iranian language family are vast and comparable with the differences within European languages. Even when you take in consideration that in present day Iran, there are many Iranian languages spoken, from Talysh, Kurdish, Persian, Luri Baluchi, Bakhtiari, Persian dialects and many other smaller languages within the borders of Iran. The vast quantity of ancient Iranian languages already mentioned in my previous post is already historically proven.

I gave you the example of Spanish and South America, where elite dominance did take place. A small group of pred Spanish " sailors" did change the languages of South American natives, before there where different native American languages which got replaced by Castilian Spanish, and Portuguesse in the case of Brazil. However elite dominace in Western Asia is, given the vast amount of Iranian languages a whole different story, because in that case every Iranian would only know how to speak Persian for example, and as you know for many Iranians, Persian was/is a second language, which suprised me as you should have known this fact, considering that you're Iranian yourself. But just to make it clear: a Persian speaker wouldn't understand Kurdish, Baluchi, Pashto, Luri, Gilaki etc and vice versa. Neither did the ancient Iranian speakers of Median, Parthian, Sogdian, Scythian etc etc understand each other. Elite Dominace was only true to the extent that many Iranian peoples did learn Persian as a second language, beside their "native" Iranian language. Which brings us to this, first Iranian people migrated to the Iranian plateau roughly 3000 years ago, which makes them indigenous, secondly, did Iranians mix with other people, ofcourse the did, however what you're implying is that a handful of Iranian people came to the region and changed the languages of the indigenous people whom where speaking an entire different language and that is false, given the historical facts.

Someone like Elias claiming Iranian people are the product of "Elite Dominance" clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Nor has he a background in Iranian studies. Let's leave it at that. And i mentioned him because you gave a link of a thread he started. I'm suprised that a Iranian like yourself would assume a theory which is baseless and made up by people with no information about contemporary Iranians.

- - - Updated - - -


How did you figure this out?
Darius may not have been from the early Elamite royal line, but he was clearly of the collateral Persian royal line - at least that is what I understand - and the Magus Gaumata was the usurper by impersonating a royal relative - and that Darius restored the the royal line.
It actually shows inflexibility, in that, Darius feels only someone of royal lineage, and not a Magus, can be the rightful ruler. This is also evident as the usurper had to pretend to be royal lineage to be considered.

"1. I am Darius the Great King, King of Kings, King in Persia, King of countries, son of Hystaspes, grandson of Arsames, an Achaemenian.

2. Darius the King says: My father was Hystaspes; Hystaspes' father was Arsames; Arsames' father was Ariaramnes; Ariaramnes' father was Teispes; Teispes' father was Achaemenes.

3. Darius the King says: For this reason we are called Achaemenians. From long ago we have been noble. From long ago our family had been kings.

4. Darius the King says: there were 8 of our family who were kings before me; I am the ninth; 9 in succession we have been kings.
...
Darius the King says: This is what was done by me after I became king. A son of Cyrus, Cambyses by name, of our family -- he was king here of that Cambyses there was a brother, Smerdis by name, having the same mother and the same father as Cambyses. Afterwards, Cambyses slew that Smerdis. When Cambyses slew Smerdis, it did not become known to the people that Smerdis had been slain. Afterwards, Cambyses went to Egypt. When Cambyses had gone off to Egypt, after that the people became evil. After that the Lie waxed great in the country, both in Persia and in Media and in the other provinces.

11. Darius the King says: Afterwards, there was one man, a Magian, named Gaumata; he rose up from Paishiyauvada. A mountain named Arakadri -- from there 14 days of the month Viyakhna were past when he rose up. He lied to the people thus: "I am Smerdis, the son of Cyrus, brother of Cambyses." After that, all the people became rebellious from Cambyses, (and) went over to him, both Persia and Media and the other provinces. He seized the kingdom; of the month Garmapada 9 days were past, then he seized the kingdom. After that, Cambyses died by his own hand.

12. Darius the King says: This kingdom which Gaumata the Magian took away from Cambyses, this kingdom from long ago had belonged to our family. After that, Gaumata the Magian took (it) from Cambyses; he took to himself both Persia and Media and the other provinces, he made (them) his own possession, he became king.

Darius the King says: There was not a man, neither a Persian nor a Mede nor anyone of our family, who might make that Gaumata the Magian deprived of the kingdom. The people feared him greatly, (thinking that) he would slay in numbers the people who previously had known Smerdis; for this reason he would slay the people, "lest they know me, that I am not Smerdis the son of Cyrus." Nobody dared say anything about Gaumata the Magian, until I came. After that I sought help of Ahuramazda; Ahuramazda bore me aid; of the month Bagayadi 10 days were past, then I with a few men slew that Gaumata the Magian, and those who were his foremost followers. A fortress named Sikayauvati, a district named Nisaya, in Media -- here I slew him. I took the kingdom from him. By the favor of Ahuramazda I became king; Ahuramazda bestowed the kingdom upon me."
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/darius/darius_inscription_biston.php

It's better to describe Class system rather than Caste system as nk already mentioned. The caste system is racist, and such racism is not inherent to contemporary Iran. India took a whole different path than Iran naturally, from ancient times up untill the present. Also in Zoroastrianism their is no such thing as caste system.

My source for Darius is a book from Micheal Axworthy: http://www.amazon.com/Iran-Empire-History-Zoroaster-Present/dp/014103629X

nk191919
2012-12-06, 20:51
There appears to be some misunderstanding between us mate. I don't mean that there are Iranians whom are more Iranian because of their ancestry, that's absolutely NOT what i'm implying here. A person doesn't have to have any Iranian ancestry for me to consider them Iranian, when someone is born in Iran or lives in Iran no matter what background is already 100% Iranian.

As you said Iran like most other countries in the world is a mixed country, which is wonderful. But the discussion is about "Elite Dominance" taking place in the region, which like i said earlier can't be the case with Iranian languages, considering the many Iranian languages spoken in ancient times up untill the present, the differences within the Iranian language family are vast and comparable with the differences within European languages. Even when you take in consideration that in present day Iran, there are many Iranian languages spoken, from Talysh, Kurdish, Persian, Luri Baluchi, Bakhtiari, Persian dialects and many other smaller languages within the borders of Iran. The vast quantity of ancient Iranian languages already mentioned in my previous post is already historically proven.

I gave you the example of Spanish and South America, where elite dominance did take place. A small group of pred Spanish " sailors" did change the languages of South American natives, before there where different native American languages which got replaced by Castilian Spanish, and Portuguesse in the case of Brazil. However elite dominace in Western Asia is, given the vast amount of Iranian languages a whole different story, because in that case every Iranian would only know how to speak Persian for example, and as you know for many Iranians, Persian was/is a second language, which suprised me as you should have known this fact, considering that you're Iranian yourself. But just to make it clear: a Persian speaker wouldn't understand Kurdish, Baluchi, Pashto, Luri, Gilaki etc and vice versa. Neither did the ancient Iranian speakers of Median, Parthian, Sogdian, Scythian etc etc understand each other. Elite Dominace was only true to the extent that many Iranian peoples did learn Persian as a second language, beside their "native" Iranian language. Which brings us to this, first Iranian people migrated to the Iranian plateau roughly 3000 years ago, which makes them indigenous, secondly, did Iranians mix with other people, ofcourse the did, however what you're implying is that a handful of Iranian people came to the region and changed the languages of the indigenous people whom where speaking an entire different language and that is false, given the historical facts.

Someone like Elias claiming Iranian people are the product of "Elite Dominance" clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Nor has he a background in Iranian studies. Let's leave it at that. And i mentioned him because you gave a link of a thread he started. I'm suprised that a Iranian like yourself would assume a theory which is baseless and made up by people with no information about contemporary Iranians.

I think your understanding of "elite dominance" is different and we can discuss it later. I have noticed that this site is riddled with individuals that use these terms for their racist and politically motivated agenda. Sometimes I am amazed at the amount of hatred that is displayed at this site. As i said i have been only posting things for the past few months and I have refused to participate in threads that are racist or politically motivated. I have noticed you have done the same as I have.

Iran has had unique history as you know, so we have to look at these terms in the context of Iran. But none the less, lets move and we can discuss things later.

Azeroglu
2012-12-06, 21:26
And how is Turkic languagues all the same? Even Azerbaijani Turkish and Anatolian Turkish which are close to each other has plenty of differences. There are three Oghuz languagues, which is Azerbaijani Turkish, Anatolian Turkish and Turkmen. Turkmen are pretty different from Azerbaijani and Anatolian Turkish, and Azerbaijani Turkish & Anatolian Turkish although being similiar are different aswell. Then there is Kypchak and Qarluq-Uyghur groups which are much less similiar. But I'm talking to bunch of people who are probably even unaware of existence of different Turkic language groups.

nk191919
2012-12-07, 14:09
http://en.ecieco.org/images/position36/2012/9/03.jpg

http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20120714/ebrahimpour20120714180736153.jpg


http://www.jstor.org/discover/pgs/index?id=10.2307/195476&img=dtc.88.tif.gif&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21101460841951&orig=/discover/10.2307/195476?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21101460841951

Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Behjat-Tabrizi (Azerbaijani: Seyid Məhəmmədhüseyn Behcət Təbrizi, Persian: سید محمدحسین بهجت تبریزی‎) (1906-September 18, 1988), chiefly known by his pen name as Shahriar (or Shahryar / Shahriyar شهریار), was a legendary Iranian poet of Azeri origin, wrote in Persian languages and Azeri Turkish language.



http://parstimes.com/literature/poetry/reza_baraheni/01.jpg


Reza Baraheni (Persian: رضا براهنی‎, born in Tabriz, Iran in 1935) is an exiled Iranian novelist, poet, critic, and political activist.


Former president of PEN Canada, the often called "Iran's finest living Writer"[citation needed] lives in Toronto, Canada, where he used to teach at the Centre for Comparative Literature at the University of Toronto.


He’s the author of more than fifty books of poetry, fiction, literary theory and criticism, written in Persian, Azeri Turkish and English.


His works has been translated in a dozen of languages. Moreover, he has translated into Persian works by Shakespeare, Kundera, Mandelstam, Andric, and Fanon.


Winner of the Scholars-at-Risk-Program Award of the University of Toronto and Massey College, Baraheni has taught in the University of Tehran, Iran,[citation needed] University of Texas in Austin, Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana, the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, the University of Toronto and York University. He has also been Fellow of St. Antony’s College, Oxford University, Britain, Fellow of the University of Iowa, Iowa City, and Fellow of Winters College, York University.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bailHJZK_GY&amp;sns=em

http://dta-turan.org/wp-content/uploads/Gholam-Reza-Sabri-Tabrizi-150x150.jpg

http://azworld.org/images/PPtabrizi.jpg

Gholam-Reza Sabri-Tabrizi was born in Tabriz,(IRAN) , and graduated in Persian and English languages from Tabriz university in 1958. In 1969 he completed a Ph.D. on the work of William Blake at the university of Edinburgh, where he taught for 30 years. The author of the ‘Heaven’ and ‘Hell’ of William Blake, he is a popular and respected academic who has presented papers to international conferences in the USA, Russia, Azerbaijan, India, Iran, Pakistan, Libya, Egypt, Switzerland, France, Italy, Taiwan, Malaysia and Germany. Since 1997 Professor Sabri-Tabrizi has been teaching English literature in the universities of Azerbaijan. He is elected as vice president of the Coordinating Committee of World Azerbaijanis in Baku. In his book: IRAN: A CHILD’S STORY, A MAN’S EXPERIENCE, the child is holding history’s hand and walking through the streets of Tabriz. This book is a remarkable autobiographical account of life in Iran from the 1930s to the Revolution of 1979, which the author witnessed in the streets of Tehran and Tabriz. Rich, colourful and as intricately woven as any Persian carpet, this book guides the reader through the social, cultural and political history of a nation in torment. Through the author’s childhood memories and impressions the reader passes beyond the closed doors of ordinary Iranian family life to meet the women in their houses, in the bazaars, in the bath-houses and at their weddings. We see the children at their schools and at work in the carpet factories. We meet the men at prayer and at play. Through the writer’s eyes we come to understand the country’s political and religious tensions and their historical roots. The book “ IRAN: A CHILD’S STORY,A MAN’S EXPERIENCE is a highly unique and moving book which will both enlighten and intrigue.

http://azerbaijans.com/uploads/bulut-qaracorlu-sehend2323.gif

Bulud Garachorlu Sahand (1926-1979) – poet. He was born in Tabriz. Previously began to write poems under Razi and then Sahand pseudonym. Youth years of Sahand had coincided with the period of national-liberation movement of Azerbaijani people. Formation in 1945 the National Government under the leadership of S.J. Pishavari in South Azerbaijan, then the progressive unprecedented reforms implemented in the country caused enthusiasm in him. Sahand had written many poems inspired of joy and proud of those years.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Samad_Behrangi.JPG

Samad Behrangi (Persian: صمد بهرنگی‎, Azerbaijani: صمد بهرنگی, Səməd Behrəngi, [sæmæd behrænɡiː]; June 24, 1939 - August 31, 1967) was an Iranian teacher, social critic, folklorist, translator, and short story writer of Azeri extraction.[1] He is famous for his children's book, The Little Black Fish.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/uploads/files/saedi_fig_1.jpg


Gholam-Hosayn SA'EDI,(Ḡolām-Ḥosayn Sāʿedi, b. Tabriz, 13 Dey 1314 Š./5 January 1936; d. Paris, 2 Āḏar 1364 Š./23 November 1985; Figure 1), psychiatrist, amateur ethnographer, editor, noted engagé dramatist (under the pen name Gowhar-e Morād), fiction writer, and influential figure in popularizing the theater as an art form, as well as a medium of political and social expression in contemporary Iran.

http://zirzameen.com/blog/media/blogs/a/Iraj_mirza_picture.jpg

Prince Iraj Mirza (1874–1926) (titled Jalāl-ol-Mamālek), son of prince Gholam Hossein Mirza, was a famous Iranian poet. He was a modern poet and his works are associated with the criticism of traditions. He had translations from the French language.

saran
2012-12-07, 18:46
...
It's better to describe Class system rather than Caste system as nk already mentioned. The caste system is racist, and such racism is not inherent to contemporary Iran. India took a whole different path than Iran naturally, from ancient times up untill the present. Also in Zoroastrianism their is no such thing as caste system.

My source for Darius is a book from Micheal Axworthy: http://www.amazon.com/Iran-Empire-History-Zoroaster-Present/dp/014103629X

Thanks. I will have to read that book to see why Darius is not considered to be of the noble line. Herodotus also points to this story, while not exactly the same, is quite in line with the Behistun inscription ( http://books.google.com/books?id=QsIcxGrq6QAC&pg=PA177 )

The castes in India were distinguished based on occupation. I do agree that rigidity of the caste system was and to an extent remains a problem.

Zoroastrianism is quite like other movements in India such as Buddhism that sought to abandon castes, and made the the priestly caste (Saman, Shramana) available to one from any occupation. Nevertheless, very few aspired to priesthood due to the rigors of that mantle.

When Greeks came to India, while they noticed that the caste system in India was quite rigid with no movement or marriage allowed outside one's caste, and that there were many gradations, they also noticed that India was a place where there were no slaves. Due to the prevalence of Buddhism at that time, they also mention that anyone could become a priest.

"This also is remarkable in India, that all Indians are free, and no Indian at all is a slave. In this the Indians agree with the Lacedaemonians. Yet the Lacedaemonians have Helots for slaves, who perform the duties of slaves; but the Indians have no slaves at all, much less is any Indian a slave... The Indians generally are divided into seven castes. Those called the wise men are less in number than the rest, but chiefest in honour and regard. For they are under no necessity to do any bodily labour; nor to contribute from the results of their work to the common store; in fact, no sort of constraint whatever rests upon these wise men, save to offer the sacrifices to the gods on behalf of the people of India. Then whenever anyone sacrifices privately, one of these wise men acts as instructor of the sacrifice, since otherwise the sacrifice would not have proved acceptable to the gods ... Then next to these come the farmers, these being the most numerous class of Indians; they have no use for warlike arms or warlike deeds, but they till the land; and they pay the taxes to the kings and to the cities, such as are self-governing; and if there is internal war among the Indians, they may not touch these workers, and not even devastate the land itself; but some are making war and slaying all comers, and others close by are peacefully ploughing or gathering the fruits or shaking down apples or harvesting. The third class of Indians are the herdsmen, pasturers of sheep and cattle, and these dwell neither by cities nor in the villages. They are nomads and get their living on the hillsides, and they pay taxes from their animals; they hunt also birds and wild game in the country ... The fourth class is of artisans and shopkeepers; these are workers, and pay tribute from their works, save such as make weapons of war; these are paid by the community. In this class are the shipwrights and sailors, who navigate the rivers. The fifth class of Indians is the soldiers' class, next after the farmers in number; these have the greatest freedom and the most spirit. They practise military pursuits only. Their weapons others forge for them, and again others provide horses; others too serve in the camps, those who groom their horses and polish their weapons, guide the elephants, and keep in order and drive the chariots. They themselves, when there is need of war, go to war, but in time of peace they make merry; and they receive so much pay from the community that they can easily from their pay support others. The sixth class of Indians are those called overlookers. They oversee everything that goes on in the country or in the cities; and this they report to the King ... The seventh class is those who deliberate abbut the community together with the King, or, in such cities as are self-governing, with the authorities. In number this class is small, but in wisdom and uprightness it bears the palm from all others; from this class are selected their governors, district governors, and deputies, custodians of the treasures, officers of army and navy, financial officers, and overseers of agricultural works. To marry out of any class is unlawful -- as, for instance, into the farmer class from the artisans, or the other way; nor must the same man practise two pursuits; nor change from one class into another, as to turn farmer from shepherd, or shepherd from artisan. It is only permitted to join the wise men out of any class; for their business is not an easy one, but of all most laborious."
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/arrian-bookviii-india.asp

Zoroaster was great thinker, in many ways far ahead of his time. His society as described in the Zand was quite rigid and divided into three peoples and artisans, and he in fact had to abandon his folk and move to different land to gain adherents and his ideas failed to gain currency in his homeland. His first followers were Turanians and the Kavi (poet king) Vishtaspa. The prophet himself was a Ratu (chief; a title still used in some parts of SE Asia http://books.google.com/books?id=Id4dj7txArMC&pg=PA66 ).

India had Jana (people), Vishaya (distict), and Desha (country), Iran had Zantu, Vis, and Dahyu. The Jana in India had divisions. Remarkably, the Prophet's land had three peoples (ThriZantu: Atharvan, Ratheshtaram, and Vastriosan, clearly recognizable as Brahman, Kshatriya, and Vaisya) and a fourth Huiti (artisans). His teachings were against the hegemony of the first two who he said were in cahoots to propagate the false doctrine of the daevas. The society of his time looks remarkably close to Indian society. His fight was against the inherent nature of beings to stratify, a fight which still goes on - in spite of the Buddha, the Prophet Mohammed, and Guru Nanak among others.


"(As the Ahu is excellent, so (is) the Ratu (one who rules) from the righteous Order, a creator of mental goodness and of life's actions done for Mazda; and the Kingdom (is) for Ahura which to the poor shall offer a nurturer.) ...

(Question.) With what classes of men? (Answer.) The priest, the charioteer (as the chief of warriors), the systematic tiller of the ground, and the artisan. These classes therefore accompany the religious man throughout his entire duty with the correct thought, the truthful word, and the righteous action. These are the classes and states in life which give attention to the rulers, and fulfill the (laws) of religion; (yea, they are the guides and companions of that religious man) through whose actions the settlements are furthered in righteousness...

(Question.) How are the chiefs (constituted)? (Answer.) They are the house-chief, the village-chief, and the tribe-chief, the chief of the province, and the Zarathushtra as the fifth. That is, so far as those provinces are concerned which are different from, and outside of the Zarathushtrian regency, or domain. [Ragha which has four chiefs (only) is the Zarathushtrian (district)] (Question.) How are the chiefs of this one constituted? (Answer.) They (are) the house-chief, the village-chief, the tribe-chief, and the Zarathushtra as the fourth ... ."
http://www.avesta.org/yasna/yasna.htm

nk191919
2012-12-07, 19:49
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Roshdieh.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/Hassanroshdieh.jpg


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2695/5718490451_c7ba65c074_z.jpg

Haji Mirza Hassan Tabrizi (میرزا حسن تبریزی; July 5, 1851, Tabriz – December 10, 1944, Qom), famously known as Hassan Roshdieh (حسن رشدیه), was an Iranian cleric, teacher, politician, and journalist. He introduced some modern teaching methods in Iran, especially in teaching the alphabet. These are still used to some degree in Iran's primary schools.
A Photograph of Hassan Roshdieh


Hassan Roshdieh was an ethnic Iranian Azeri and began studying as a Twelver Shi'a cleric there, Roshdieh abandoned his plans of going to Najaf to study in religious schools after reading an article about the hardships of education in the Persian language from the newspaper Akhtar. He left for Beirut in 1880 and studied for two years in its Daar ul-Mu'allimeen (teacher school), and then continued with visiting Istanbul and Egypt. In 1883, he left for Yerevan and founded the first modern school for Muslims there. In his new method of teaching, Roshdieh used the concept of sounds instead of alphabet letters to teach Persian and Azerbaijani Turkish languages (which use the Arabic script). During his four years of managing his school in Yerevan, Roshdieh wrote Vatan Dili (The Language of the Homeland) in Azerbaijani, which was taught in several schools of the Caucasus as a primer until the October Revolution.


It was during his stay in Yerevan that Roshdieh met Nasser-al-Din Shah, who took him to Nakhichevan. Roshdieh later return to his birthplace in Tabriz, where he established the first primary schools in Persia in 1886 or 1887. While Ahmad Kasravi has claimed in his book that the primary school were established with the help of Amin od-Dowle, the then prime minister, this cannot be confirmed by the records of Fakhreddin Roshdieh, Mirza Hassan's son.


The schools were highly rejected by the more conservative Tabrizis, specially clerics, alleging that Roshdieh is trying to make the students quit Islam, mentioning the school ring and its similarity to church bells. This resulted in mobs destroying some of his schools (which resulted in a few students being killed or injured), unsuccessful assassination attempts using guns, and later a fatwa against the modern schools, which finally resulted in him fleeing Tabriz.
An Image of Hassan Roshdieh with his students.


In Tehran, and during the reign of Mozzafar-al-Din Shah and the prime ministership of Amin od-Dowle, Roshdieh started the Roshdieh School with the help of the government. He was a member of the political Ma'āref Association and active for the fight for freedoms and constitution during the Persian Constitutional Revolution, leading to him being exiled or fleeing Persia a few times.


Afer a final return to Persia, Roshdieh established a new school and a magazine in 1904, both called Maktab. He finally quit his political and educational activities in 1927 and moved to Qom, where he died in 1944 and is buried.


Roshdieh is claimed to be the first Persian to write poems for children. He also had plans for education of the blind people and had helped establishing girl schools in Persia. He has several books and articles in Persian and Azerbaijani. He was called Roshdieh after the name of primary schools in the then Ottoman empire, roshdiyye, because he had established the first such schools in Iran.


Roshdieh is mentioned in a famous poem of Nima Youshij, yād-e ba’zi nafarāt (The Memory of Some People)



http://files.myopera.com/Ascendent/blog/Professor%20Hashtroodi_2.jpg


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Mohsen Hashtroodi (Persian: محسن هشترودی‎, French: Mohsen Hachtroudi) (December 13, 1908, Tabriz – September 4, 1976, Tehran) was an Iranian mathematician. His father, Shaikh Esmāeel Mojtahed was an advisor to Shaikh Mohammad Khiābāni who played a significant role in the establishment of the parliamentary democracy in Iran during and after the Iranian Constitutional Revolution.
Mohsen Hashtroodi attended Sirus and Aghdasieh primary schools in Tehran and subsequently studied at the élite school of Dar ol-Fonoon, also in Tehran, from where he graduated in 1925. He obtained his doctoral degree in mathematics in 1936 as student of Élie Cartan in France. He was a Distinguished Professor of University of Tehran. One of the Prizes of Iranian Mathematical Society is named after Professor Hashtroodi.[1]
Mohsen Hashtroodi married Robāb Modiri in 1944. They had two daughters, Farānak and Faribā, and one son, Rāmin.
Professor Hashtroodi is buried in the Behesht-e Zahra cemetery in Tehran

nk191919
2012-12-11, 17:13
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Fariba Hachtroudi was born in 1951 in Tehran. She comes from a family of scholars and professors. Her paternal grand-father was a religious leader who supported the constitutionalists in 1906, against other religious leaders who advocated for governance by Sharia law and the absolute rule of God as a monarchic authority.


Fariba’s father Mohsen Hachtroudi was a learned scholar, often called the “Ommar Khayyam” of contemporary Iran. As a well known French-educated mathematician, philosopher and poet, Mr Hachtroudi was unquestionably considered to be a moral authority for generations of Iranians. Hachtroudi fought his entire life for the promotion of democracy, social justice (most notably women rights) and secularism. Fariba’s mother, Robab Hachtroudi was a professor of humanities and Persian literature.


Fariba Hachtroudi received her doctorate (PHD) in art and archeology in Paris in 1978.




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Tahmineh Milāni (Persian: تهمینه میلانی‎) is an Iranian film director, screenwriter, and producer.

Milani was born 1960 in Tabriz, Iran.[1] Of Azeri descent[citation needed], she is the wife of the Iranian actor and producer Mohammad Nikbin.[2]




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Ali Javan (Persian: علی جوان‎ - ‘Ali Javān, Azerbaijani: علی جوان, born December 26, 1926) is an Iranian American physicist and inventor at MIT. His main contributions to science have been in the fields of quantum physics and spectroscopy. He co-invented the gas laser in 1960, with William R. Bennett.[1] In 2007 Javan was ranked Number 12 on the list of the "Top 100 Living Geniuses".[2]




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Nina Nasr Zanjani (born 1 September 1981 in Iran) is a Swedish actress of Persian origin. She played one of the two lead roles in Helena Bergström's directorial debut Mind the Gap as the daughter Yasmin.[1] She starred in the second Swedish series of Wallander, as the police woman Isabelle Melin.


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FIRUZ (Farmānfarmāʾiān), MARYAM (b. Kermanshah, 1292/1913; d. Tehran, 12 March 2008; Figure 1), political activist, feminist activist, and author. She was also a leading member of the Tudeh party of Iran and was arrested by the Islamic Republic security forces in 1983.


Firuz was born into the royal Qajar family. Her father was ʿAbd-al-Ḥosayn Mirzā Farmānfarmā (q.v.), the second son of Firuz Mirzā Noṣrat-al-Dawla Farmānfarmā, the sixteenth son of ʿAbbās Mirzā (q.v.), son and the crown prince of Fatḥ-ʿAli Shah (q.v.), the second Qajar king (ʿĀqeli, p. 1091).

nk191919
2012-12-12, 15:35
The Araz Ensemble


Mr. Shahryari is a multi talented well known professional performer in the music scene of Islamic Republic of Iran. He plays the authentic instrument of Qarmon (Gharman), the original instrument for Accordion. Qarmon is widely known as a traditional lead instrument in ethnomusicology of east European countries, Central Asia, Russia, and the Crocuses as well as Azerbaijan and Iran. Mr. Shaharyari has proven to be an exceptional vocalist as well. He burst into music arena in Iran in 1996, by forming the Araz Ensemble, a first of it’s kind in the country since the Islamic revolution of 1997. Since his debut in 1995, in Tehran International




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turboratur
2012-12-12, 16:43
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Monir Vakili (December 19, 1923, in Tabriz, Iran - February 28, 1983, in Belgium) was an Iranian singer. Monir was born to a family of art and music enthusiasts. Her father encouraged her love of opera and supported her decision to study abroad. Monir studied voice and the Conservatoire National de Paris and continued her training in opera directing at the New England Conservatory of Music in the U.S. A pioneer in the true sense, Monir started the very first opera company in Iran. She gave memorable performances as Madama Butterfly, Mimi in La Bohème, Violetta in La Traviata, Liu in Turandot, and many others at the Rudaki Hall. Her passion was to bring the level of artistry in Iran up to international standards. Among many other highlights in her illustrious career she produced and hosted a series in the National Iranian Television featuring the best selections from Rudaki Hall; she created an opera film festival which was the first of its kind in the world and established the Academy of Voice, a government-funded, co-ed boarding school to educate and train students in the art of opera and choral singing. In 1951 Monir placed 1st at the Berlin Youth Festival (vocal category) and in 1975 she was the recipient of the prestigious Forough Farrokhzad Award. Throughout Monir's life, her love for her country permeated all of her work. A manifestation of this love is an album recorded in Paris in 1958, of songs from different regions of Iran. She dazzled the public and international critics with her performance, and the album, Chants et Danses de Perse, won the Grand Prix du Disque of the Académie Charles Cros. Monir died in 1983. The memory of her ever-lasting spirit and talent lives on in Baazgasht ("Resurrection"), a glorious rendition of the 1958 award-winning album. Biographical Notes Monir attended American School in Hamedan where she performed as soloist and member of the church choir. Radio Tehran and Association of Friends of the French Culture-Soloist and Choir Member, 1969-71. Studied at the Conservatoire Nationale de Musique de Paris 1949-1952, majoring in Operatic Singing and Performing Arts. Recipient of the Best Folk Songs Award, Berlin Youth Festival, 1951. Vocal Coach at Tehran National Conservatory of Music, 1955-57. Recitals at the French Institute and Roumanian Embassy, Tehran, 1955-56. Studied at the New England Conservatory in Boston, Massachusetts, 1960-61. Majored in Opera Directing. First Persian singer to popularize Persian Folk Songs in Iran and the international music scene. Founder of the first Opera Company of Tehran. Staged the first televised opera scenes from Madama Butterfly and La Traviata on Sabet Television, May 1961. Executive Director of Rudaki Hall Programs for NIRTV (Performing Arts Program), Tehran, Iran. Creator and Founder of the Academy of Voice, Tehran, Iran, 1975 (government funded co-ed boarding high school for opera and choral singing). Recipient of the Forough Farrokhzad Award, 1976. Executive Producer of the first Opera Film Festival in the world at the Rudaki Hall in Tehran, Iran, 1977. Executive Director & Producer & Host of the Television Program for NIRTV: Rudaki Hall Presents (the best programs of the year were telecast all over the country). Appeared in 19 operas as the lead or second lead and directed two major operas in Tehran. Member of Board of Directors : The International Shiraz Arts Festival Toured and performed extensively in Russia, Tajikestan, Bulgaria, Romania, France, Germany, Italy and the United States. Married to Dr. Abdol-Madjid Madjidi, 2 daughters: Scheherazade (a.k.a. ZaZa[1][2]) and Djamileh. Died in a tragic car accident in Belgium Feb. 28, 1983 as her husband's car collided with a tank. They had been driving to an informal gathering with prominent diplomats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monir_Vakili

nk191919
2012-12-14, 16:08
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turboratur
2012-12-18, 20:47
Homeyra
Parvaneh Amir-Afshari (Persian: پروانه امير افشاری‎ born March 16, 1945) also known as Homeyra (Persian: حميرا‎) is an Iranian singer. She is a veteran celebrity of Iran's Golden Years of music. Her voice has been measured to span three octaves.

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turboratur
2012-12-20, 19:16
Famous Azariturks from TABRIZ :

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turboratur
2012-12-21, 12:24
Golshifteh Farahani
is originally from a Turkic village from MARKAZI(Arak) province of Iran .
Golshifteh Farahani (Persian: گلشیفته فراهانی‎, born July 10, 1983) is an Iranian actress.

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turboratur
2012-12-22, 14:44
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Soccerfan19
2012-12-26, 18:55
We need to clarify a few things. Turks/Oguz picked up Islam from the Iranian teachers not the Arabs. At that time the Iranians were still Sunni. Today all religious terminology is Persian not Arabic (namaz=salah, oruc=sawm, abdest=wudu, peygamber=prophet etc). the Turks that came to Anatolia continued this tradition (Seljuks and ottomans)

When we come to the Safavids their tribe was started by a Sunni sheikh. Instead of focusing on religion he was more involved world issues, he chose Shi'itism. There were many Turkmen warriors in ottoman lands, he attracts them to his army. Those that fought in the name of the Safavids where Turks that emigrated from central Anatolia and the Mediterranean coast. They are blood brothers with those living in Turkey today.. Savafids especially according to nationalist standards of that age were complete Turkish nationalists. The army and ruling class were always Turks and spoke Turkish.
Later on they forgot about Qizilbash and became si'ite, later on Persian speaking mullahs came to power. However, Iran is still an important country for Turks. It was ruled by Turks from the 10th to the beginning of the 20th century. They severed the Turkish language tradition as much as, if not more, than the Ottoman Turks. The poems written by shah Ismail can easily be read and understood by everybody today.

There are also people that say USA should hit Iran and the Azeris should separate. Why should the creators of Iran, the Azeris, leave it? Even in the Iraq -Iran war he most martyrs were the Azeri.
The Azeri are not a minority. To give you an example of a minority: In Turkey, the Kurds were not a creator of the Ottoman Empire. In Malazgirt (1071) they were shepherds, during the Selim - Ismail issues they were watchman. In the 19th century, when their privileges were taken from them, they immediately rebelled. While everyone was fighting for the honour of Islam in the Balkans, Crimea and Canakkale (Gallipoli) they were starting rebellions and stabbing the Ottomans in the back. only once did they work together with the Ottomans - that was against the Armenian gangs. However as a result they took the Armenians women and homes and all their land, so the region could be left to them.

Mandschure
2012-12-28, 12:35
Slightly more white-looking than the average Persian, however still very similar.

turboratur
2012-12-31, 14:52
jamal torabi tabatabaei from Tabriz , father of Numismatics of Iran.

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turboratur
2013-01-03, 07:07
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turboratur
2013-01-03, 11:45
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turboratur
2013-01-06, 19:13
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nk191919
2013-01-07, 22:18
Some Nice Pictures from the City of Tabriz the largest city in Azarbaijan.

Tabriz (Persian:تبریز) (pronounced [tæbˈriːz] ( listen)) is the fifth largest city[2] and one of the historical capitals of Iran and the capital of East Azerbaijan Province. Situated at an altitude of 1,350 meters at the junction of the Quru River and Aji River, it was the second largest city in Iran until the late 1960s, one of its former capitals, and residence of the crown prince under the Qajar dynasty. The city has proven extremely influential in the country’s recent history. Tabriz is located in a valley to the north of the long ridge of the volcanic cone of Sahand, south of the Eynali mountain. The valley opens out into a plain that slopes gently down to the northern end of Lake Urmia, 60 km to the west. With cold winters and temperate summers the city is considered a summer resort.


The estimated population of the city is around 1,400,000[3] based on results of the Iranian census bureau. Tabriz is the fourth most populous city in Iran after Tehran, Mashhad, and Esfahan, and is also a major Iranian heavy industrial and manufacturing center. Some of these industries include automobile, machine tools, oil and petrochemical and cement production.[4]
With a rich history, Tabriz contains many historical monuments, but repeated devastating earthquakes and several invasions during frequent wars have substantially damaged many of them. Many monuments in the city date back to the Ilkhanid, Safavid, and Qajar periods,[5][6][7] with the large Tabriz Historic Bazaar Complex being named as a World Heritage Site in 2010.[8] In addition to all of this there is an excavation site and museum in the city center with a history that dates back 2500 years, which is also regarded as one of the most historic cities in ancient Iran.



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ashrf1979
2013-01-08, 15:32
Two images of people have Iraqi-Bahrani surnames

Not only Iraqis and Bahranis have Iranian ancestors also Iranians have Iraqi and Bahrani ancestors the cause may be that the three peoples (iranians-iraqis-bahranis) in the past, they were citizens of the Safavid Empire.


Famous Azariturks from TABRIZ :
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Maliki(مالكى), Iraqi-Bahrani surname

Saa'di(ساعدى), Iraqi surname

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Saa'dies
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Malikis
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turboratur
2013-01-08, 16:47
Two images of people have Iraqi-Bahrani surnames

Not only Iraqis and Bahranis have Iranian ancestors also Iranians have Iraqi and Bahrani ancestors the cause may be that the three peoples (iranians-iraqis-bahranis) in the past, they were citizens of the Safavid Empire.


Maliki(مالكى), Iraqi-Bahrani surname

Saa'di(ساعدى), Iraqi surname

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Saa'dies
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Malikis
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A lot of people in IRAN have same surnames but this does not mean that they are related .
When Certificates was issued to IRANIAN (in Reza shah period) , most surnames was adapted from individual Iranian's father's names , such " Amadi " cause to a person that his father's name was Ahmad . of course name of a lot of people in IRAN in that time
were Ahmad and now their generations have Ahmadi or Ahmadzadeh or Ahmadpuor , ... surnames.

ashrf1979
2013-01-09, 19:50
A lot of people in IRAN have same surnames but this does not mean that they are related .
When Certificates was issued to IRANIAN (in Reza shah period) , most surnames was adapted from individual Iranian's father's names , such " Amadi " cause to a person that his father's name was Ahmad . of course name of a lot of people in IRAN in that time
were Ahmad and now their generations have Ahmadi or Ahmadzadeh or Ahmadpuor , ... surnames.

There are many Iraqi surnames use in Iran Like (ثقفی-Saqafi) (خزاعى-Khazaee) (اسدى-Asadi) (مزيدي-Mazidi) And many others.

In fact the links between the Shiite Muslims in Iran and Iraq is very strong and old , Umayyad governors in Iraq were abandoned tens of thousands of Iraqi Shiites to Iran Also many Shiite Muslims were fleeing to Iran especially to the north of Iran Because of that Shiism became the main religion of the Iranians since the ninth century.

Therefore we can say that Iraq is in second after Azerbaijan in cultural, ethnic and religious links with Iran

turboratur
2013-01-10, 16:35
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turboratur
2013-01-11, 07:12
Parisa Tabriz, security princess who manages Google’s information security engineering team at Google, made to the prestigious 30 under 30 list issued annually by Forbes.

She is responsible for improving Google’s product security. This team of “hired hackers” conducts security design and code reviews, builds and enhances Google technology to make secure development possible and easy, conducts security engineering training, and does vulnerability response. Parisa received her B.S. and M.S. from the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign and was advised by Nikita Borisov.

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turboratur
2013-01-13, 15:22
Behnam TASHAKKOR
actor

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nk191919
2013-01-16, 19:09
Iranian Azeris - The Formative Years of Their Influence in Iran
on Apr 30, 2012


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Iran is a multiethnic state whose population of 78 million people is divided between the Persian majority and various ethnic minorities (Iran, CIA World Fact Book). Azeri Turks, numbering around 20 million, are by far the largest of these minorities, predominating in northwestern provinces of Ardabil, East Azerbaijan, West Azerbaijan, and Zanjan. Like Iran’s Persian majority, Azeri Turks are Shi’a Muslims. A Turkic people, they speak a variation of Turkish, strongly influenced by Persian and to lesser extent Arabic languages (Riaux, 56-57). In addition eight million more Azeris reside in the neighboring Republic of Azerbaijan, which borders Iran’s Azeri populated provinces to the north.


Safavid and Qajar Dynasties

Between 1500 and 1722, Iran (then known as Persia), was ruled by the Turkic and Kurdish based Safavid Empire, which had its roots in Iran’s northern region of Azerbaijan (that region has since been split into the three of the four provinces mentioned earlier, excluding southernmost Zanjan). Azeri Turkish was the predominant language of the Safavid court, and Shah Ismail - the empire’s founder – was known for writing Azeri poetry and is considered to be an important contributor to the development of the Azeri language (Shaffer, 19). It was this dynasty that introduced Shi’a Islam as Iran’s official religion. The Safavid Empire is to this day revered as one of the most influential in the country’s history.

In 1779, another Azerbaijani based empire, the Qajars, assumed control over Persia. As it was under the Savafids, Azeri Turkish was the main spoken language of the Qajar court, and according to experts on Azerbaijan Brenda Shaffer and Pierre Oberling, “The position of the Azerbaijani language and one of the Azerbaijanis was so significant that all of the students first sent abroad in the beginning of the 19th century from Iran to study in Europe were from Azerbaijan.” (Shaffer, 22). In addition, Iran’s Azerbaijan region, particularly its largest city Tabriz, served as the political and commercial core of both empires, and played a key role in the country’s development in these spheres.

Azeris and the 1906 Iranian Constitutional Revolution

Just as they ran and influenced things from the top, Azeris were similarly active operating from the bottom, at the grassroots levels of Iran’s political life. In 1906 Tabriz became the center of Iran’s constitutional movement aimed at curbing the power of the Qajar dynasty, which has lost much of its appeal among the Iranian people due to its absolute rule and dependence on Russian and Britain support in return for these empires’ increased influence in Iran. Among the goals of the 1906 Constitutional revolution, which sought to abolish the absolute control of the monarchy and establish a parliamentary government that would better represent the will of the Iranian people, was to ensure the right of people in Iranian provinces to have their own provincial councils, which would supervise local affairs and collect and allocate taxes (Atabaki, 29).

When in 1908 Qajar Shah Mohammed Ali began neglecting the covenants of the constitution in an attempt to reimpose authoritarianism over Iran, the ruling court was assailed with telegrams from the members of the Council of Tabriz, referring to Shah as a traitor, and calling for “all Iranian brothers to stand up and safeguard the Constitution” (Atabaki, 31). These clashes between the Azeri-Turkish Shah of Iran and the ordinary Iranian-Azeri civilians that constituted the Council of Tabriz epitomized the far-reaching role of Azeris in Iran’s socio-political strata. The fact that the council called for unity of all Iranians against the empire’s Azeri-Turkish ruler goes on to show that Iranian Azeris were more concerned about Iran’s national, rather than its ethnic character.

The tensions between the monarchy and the constitutional movement soon culminated in a thirteen month long civil war. In his book, Azerbaijan: Ethnicity and the Struggle for Power in Iran, expert on Iranian Azerbaijan Touraj Atabaki describes the importance of Iranian Azeris during this time period:

“Generally speaking, the part which Azerbaijan, and especially the Tabrizi Constitutionalists, played during the course of these thirteen months of war and famine was so impressive that, from that time on, Azerbaijan was seen by many Iranians as the centre from which any future progressive political change would originate” (32).

Thus throughout the nascent years of the 20th century, Azeri Turks were an integral part of Iran’s political life, playing the role of both the power hungry despot and the uncompromising resistance. By being the birthplace of the influential Safavid dynasty and the Constitutional Revolution, Iran’s Azerbaijan province became the political hub of the nation, facilitating its emergence as a modern nation-state.


Sources


Atabaki, T. (1993). Azerbaijan: Ethnicity and Struggle for Power in Iran. New York: I.B. Taurus.
Iran (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ir.html.). (2012). The CIA World Factbook.
Riaux, G. (2008, March). The formative years of Azerbaijani nationalism in post-revolutionary Iran. Central Asian Survey, 27(1), 45-58.
Shaffer, B. (2002). Borders and Brethren: Iran and the Challenge of Azerbaijani Identity. Cambridge, Massachusetts: MIT Press.


Copyright Enver Guseynov (http://suite101.com/enver-guseynov)

turboratur
2013-01-20, 19:14
Kamal Shalorus
UFC fighter

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