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Ubirajara
2013-12-13, 12:05
What do you think about it? I find it kind of amazing that there are still two ethnic 'new christian' groups in Iberia, even if they are very small and the legal distinctions are gone a long ago. In Portugal the legal distinction between 'new' and 'old' christian was eliminated by Pombal around 1760. I suppose that kind of control existed in Spain as late as the XVIII century at least. New Christians kept to themselves. Astonishingly up to the XVIII century at least (Antonio José da Silva, "o Judeu", is an example of it, both his parents were conversos, and he married a converso cousin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Jos%C3%A9_da_Silva).

There are two ethnic judeoconverso ("new christian") enclaves in Iberia I'm aware of: the Xuetas from Majorca and those from Belmonte, Northern Portugal. They are very small communities. Those of Belmonte have managed to keep secret Jewish practices in spite of being an isolated endogamic group in the last 5 centuries. Both show Jewish genetics:

The Xuetas (an endogamic group of judeoconversos - "new christians") appeared quite Near Eastern compared to the rest of the population where they live (I've just read this study):


A variety of genetic studies conducted, principally, by the Departament of Human Genetics of the University of the Balearic Islands have indicated that the Xuetes constitute a genetically homogeneous group with the populations of Oriental Jews, and are also related to the Ashkenazi Jews and those of North Africa, based on analyzing both the Y chromosome, which traces patrilineal descent, and the mitochondrial DNA, which traces matrilineal descent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chueta

http://www.uib.es/digitalAssets/127/127863_68_gen.pdf
http://i44.tinypic.com/25zi88g.jpg

The Belmonte Jews:


The marranos that have been living in Belmonte are sometimes referred to as the "Belmonte Jews." They are a community that has survived in secrecy for hundreds of years by maintaining a tradition of endogamy and by hiding all the external signs of their faith.

The community in the municipality of Belmonte, Cova da Beira subregion, Portugal, goes back to the 12th century and they were only discovered in 1917 by a Polish Jewish mining engineer named Samuel Schwarz. Some of them returned to Judaism in the 1970s, and opened a synagogue, Bet Eliahu, in 1996.[1] In 2003, the Belmonte Project was founded under the auspices of the American Sephardi Federation, in order to raise funds to acquire Judaic educational material and services for the community[2] (which now numbers 300).[3] A Jewish Museum of Belmonte] (Museu Judaico de Belmonte) [4] opened on 17 April 2005.

Their Sephardic tradition of Crypto-Judaism is considered unique.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belmonte_Jews

Amazingly, a "New Christian" sample from Belmonte, Northern Portugal, plotted closer to other Jewish populations than to Iberians. They practiced so much endogamy that according to a Behar study a single haplotype would account for 93% of their maternal lineages (one also found among Sephardic diaspora communities from the former Ottoman Empire):

A map from an autusomal Behar DNA study on Jews (SJ - Sephardic Jews; AJ - Ashkenazi Jews; SbJ - Belmonte Jews; MJ - Moroccan Jews):

http://i42.tinypic.com/4kjl03.jpg

A very interesting documentary on the "last Marranos", the Xueta from Majorca were discriminated against as late as the XX century:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CpidcjO5uU

Ubirajara
2014-08-05, 17:57
This is how the crypto-Jewish community of Belmonte was uncovered, as told in the book "A History the Marranos", by the historian Cecil Roth:


In 1917, a Polish Jewish mining engineer established at Lisbon, M. Samuel Schwarz, was on a
business visit to Belmonte, a somewhat inaccessible spot in the hill-country in the north of
Portugal, not far from the Spanish frontier. One of the inhabitants, desirous of obtaining his
patronage, warned him pointedly against having anything to do with one of his competitors. "It
is enough for me to tell you," he said, "that the man is a judeu—a Jew." The information naturally
stirred M. Schwarz, a passionate student of things Jewish, to further inquiries. The person
indicated by his informant could not help him much; he had married an "Old" Christian, and was
thus out of touch with his former brethren in faith. However, he did his best to introduce the
inquirer to them. "E dos nossos"—"He is one of us," he whispered to them, confidentially. With
some difficulty, M. Schwarz began to gain their confidence. They were dubious as to the
stranger's claims. They had not heard of any Jews different from themselves. They had no
knowledge of the greater Jewish community living outside the bounds of Portugal. Their
conceptions were limited to an exiguous body in their own township and the immediate
neighbourhood, for whom secrecy was a primary condition of religious existence. The stranger
moreover could not recite any of the traditional Portuguese prayers current amongst that and the
sister communities. It was in vain that he tried to point out that the universal Jewish language of
prayer was Hebrew, in which the Jews throughout the world carried on their devotions. They
had not heard of the language, and doubted its existence. At last an old woman, whom the rest
treated with particular deference, asked him sceptically to repeat some prayer in the tongue for
which he claimed such sanctity. His choice was an obvious one. He recited the Jewish confession
of faith—the same which Isaac de Castro Tartas had on his lips when he perished at the stake:
"Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is One." As he pronounced the name of
God—Adonai—the woman covered her eyes with her hands—the traditional formality, intended
to shut out all outside distractions during the recital of this verse. When he had finished, she
turned to the bystanders. He is indeed a Jew," she said, authoritatively, "for he knows the name
of Adonai." Thus this solitary survival of the old Hebrew tongue, which had been preserved
orally throughout the long centuries of subterfuge and persecution, at last brought the remnant
of the Marranos into touch with a representative of the outside Jewish world.

Now that he was recognized as a coreligionist, M. Schwarz had no difficulty in being admitted
to full confidence. What he discovered was nothing less than amazing. Throughout the period
subsequent to the fall of the Inquisition, there had continued to exist in the remoter parts of the
northern provinces of Portugal whole colonies of crypto-Jews, absolutely isolated from the
general Jewish world, and not even suspecting its existence. Long centuries of persecution had
left its mark on their outlook. They could not conceive any form of Judaism except that stunted
and furtive one which they followed. They were not conscious of any short-comings or lapses
on their part. But, at the same time, their religion in its essentials was unmistakably Jewish—a
natural development of that which their ancestors had practiced at the time of the Inquisitional
persecutions, an account of which has been given above. They steadfastly denied the Messiahship
of Jesus and withheld recognition from the saints of the Roman Catholic Church. They recognized
themselves as Jews, or as New Christians. They met together at regular intervals for prayer. They
married only among themselves. They observed with the utmost possible fidelity the Sabbath
and the major solemnities of Passover and the Day of Atonement, together with the Fast of Esther.
True, the persecution of centuries had left its trace. On Friday night, many of them placed the
Sabbath light, which they so religiously kindled, inside a pitcher, safe from prying eyes. The
Day of Atonement and Passover were both observed a day or two after their proper date, when
the vigilance of their persecutors might be assumed to have been relaxed.

Their prayers, though sadly altered and diminished, were recognizably Jewish in inspiration and
in origin. They were in Portuguese—a. large number of them in verse. Nevertheless, the ancient
archetypes are in many cases recognizable. One or two words of Hebrew, even, survived—
notably, the name Adonai. The formula of benediction, before performing any religious function,
was strikingly similar to the traditional one. It ran thus: "Blessed art Thou, my Lord, my Adanai,
who hast commanded us with His blessed and holy commandments that we do . . as our brethren
do in the land of Promise." Only the concluding phrase, with its striking testimony to the unity
of Israel and the living influence of Palestine, is not to be found in the traditional Hebrew
formula.[4] The prayers were scanty in number, and were seldom written down, being transmitted
from generation to generation by word of mouth. The principal repositories of these as of other
traditions were the mothers and the wives. Indeed, on those occasions when meetings were held
for prayer, it was generally an old woman who acted as sacerdotisa ("priestess") or spiritual guide
of the community. Among themselves, they continued to maintain feelings of the utmost
solidarity, expressed in mutual charity and characteristically generous help at times of stress:,
All of this had continued for the past century and a half, absolutely unknown to the Jews of the
outside world, who were meanwhile endeavouring to understand how it was that the Marranos
had died away with such dramatic suddenness after Pombal's reforms.

What had happened was as a matter of fact by no means difficult to explain. In the principal
towns, the main centres of the Inquisitional activity, where surveillance was continual and whence
departure from the country was comparatively easy, the persecution had been more or less
effective. Almost all the Marrano population had been driven to emigrate, exterminated, or else
forced to conform. Indeed, in the last days of the period of the autos-da-fè, as has been seen,
only a small proportion of those who figured had been natives of the capital or the greater cities
in the western part of the country. But, in the rural centres, matters were different. The
maintenance of some sort of communal life was simpler, and traditions could thus be perpetuated
with greater ease. On the other hand, emigration from the country (for the poorer classes
especially) was difficult in the extreme. Hence, crypto-Judaism had here a greater vitality than
in the capital or the other great cities.

Ubirajara
2014-08-05, 23:17
This is the tale of the meeting of a Briton (George Burrow) with an Iberian crypto-Jew, as told by him, text quoted by Cecil Roth in his "A History of the Marranos":


George Borrow, the imaginative purveyor of the Bible in Spain, gives an extraordinary account of personal encounter in 1835, during his visit to the Peninsula. Having regard for the exuberant fancy of the author, this was universally regarded as a characteristic piece of romancing. There is perhaps more in it than was at one time thought; and it is worthwhile to cite it at length:

"There was something peculiarly strange about the figure: . . . I see him standing in the moonshine, staring me in the face with his deep calm eyes. At last he said — “Are you then one of us?'

Myself: You say you are wealthy. In what does your wealth consist?

Abarbenel: In gold and silver, and stones of price; for I have inherited all the hoards of my forefathers. The greater part is buried underground; indeed, I have never examined the tenth part of it. I have coins of silver and gold older than the times of Ferdinand the Accursed and Jezebel; I have also large sums employed in usury. We keep ourselves close, however, and pretend to be poor, miserably so; but, on certain occasions, at our festivals, when our gates are barred, and our savage dogs are let loose in the court, we eat our food off services such as the Queen of Spain cannot boast of, and wash our feet in ewers of silver, fashioned and wrought before the Americas were discovered, though our garments are at all times course, and our food for the most part of the plainest description . . .

Myself: Are you known for what you are? Do the authorities molest you?

Abarbenel: People of course suspect me to be what I am; but as I conform outwardly in most respects to their ways, they do not interfere with me. True it is that sometimes, when I enter the church to hear the mass, they glare at me over the left shoulder, as much as to say —'What do you here?' And sometimes they cross themselves as I pass by; but as they go no further, I do not trouble myself on that account . . .

Myself: Do the priests interfere with you?

Abarbenel: They let me alone, especially in our own neighbourhood. Shortly after the death of my father one hot-headed individual endeavoured to do me an evil turn; but I soon requited him causing him to be imprisoned on a charge of blasphemy, and in prison he remained a long time, till he went mad and died.

Myself: Have you a head in Spain, in whom is vested the chief authority?

Abarbenel: Not exactly. There are, however, certain holy families who enjoy much consideration; my own is one of these the chiefest, I may say. My grandsire was a particularly holy man; and I have heard my father say, that one night an archbishop came to his house secretly, merely to have the satisfaction of kissing his head.

Myself: How can that be? What reverence could an archbishop entertain for one like yourself or your grandsire?

Abarbenel: More than you imagine. He was one of us, at least his father was, and he could never forget what he had learned with reverence in his infancy . . . he then returned to his diocese, where he shortly afterwards died, in much renown for sanctity.

Myself: What you say surprises me. Have you reason to suppose that many of you are to be found amongst the priesthood?

Abarbenel: Not to suppose, but to know it. There are many such as I amongst the priesthood, and not amongst the inferior priesthood either; some of the most learned and famed of them in Spain have been of us, or of our blood at least, and many of them at this day think as I do. There is one particular festival of the year at which four dignified ecclesiastics are sure to visit me; and then, when all is made close and secure, and the fitting ceremonies have been gone through, they sit down upon the floor and curse.

Myself: Are you numerous in the large towns?

Abarbenel: By no means; our places of abode are seldom the large towns; we prefer the villages and rarely enter the large towns but on business. Indeed, we are not a numerous people, and there are few provinces of Spain which contain more than twenty families. None of us are poor, and those among us who serve, do so more from choice than necessity, for by serving each other we acquire different trades. Not unfrequently the time of service is that of courtship also, and the servants eventually marry the daughters of the house . . ."

Ubirajara
2014-08-07, 12:18
According to a 2001 poll among the people of Majorca, 30% answered they'd never marry a Xueta, and 5% said they did not want to have Xueta friends.


Todo ello, sin embargo, no implica la eliminación completa de conductas de rechazo, como indica una encuesta realizada entre los mallorquines por la Universidad de las Islas Baleares en 2001, en la que un 30% afirmó que no se casaría nunca con un/una chueta y un 5% declaró que no desea ni tener amigos chuetas
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chueta

Pic of a famous Xueta, Miquel Segura (journalist, writer and jeweller), who has returned to Judaism:


Miquel Segura Aguiló (La Puebla, Islas Baleares, 25 de enero de 1945) es un periodista, escritor y joyero español, de origen chueta. Es el padre del diplomático español Jaume Segura.

Nació en La Puebla, en el interior de la isla de Mallorca, en el seno de una ilustre familia de joyeros y plateros pertenecientes a la minoría chueta, un grupo de descendientes de judíos conversos mallorquines que por causa de las persecuciones religiosas y su posterior estigmatización a fines del siglo XVII se vieron obligados a practicar una estricta endogamia, a la vez que conservaron una sólida conciencia colectiva. Periodista autodidacta, ha colaborado desde 1981 en diferentes publicaciones de Baleares, entre ellos Ultima Hora, donde mantiene una columna periódica. También escritor prolífico, mayoritariamente en catalán, cultivó todos los géneros literarios a excepción del teatro.

Siendo consciente de su origen chueta, la aventura literaria de Miquel Segura con los años se profundiza en su identidad primero conversa, y luego judía. Su primer libro de la temática, Memòria xueta (Memoria chueta, de 1994) marcó un antes y un después en el tratamiento de la cuestión chueta en Mallorca, ya que rompió definitivamente con un estigma que la sociedad balear arrastraba desde hace centurias, al ponerla en el centro de la opinión pública. Habitual entrevistado, participante de programas de televisión, y ponente en diversos seminarios internacionales, su caso (y el de muchos otros) ha trascendido fronteras, llegando a oídos del Gran Rabino de Israel.

El 17 de diciembre de 2009 Miquel Segura retorna oficialmente al judaísmo, en una ceremonia efectuada en Nueva York, y adopta el nombre hebreo de Mihael Bar Haim. Es la primera persona de origen chueta que desde los tiempos de la Inquisición se le reconoce su retorno al judaísmo sin pasar por una conversión religiosa.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miquel_Segura_Aguil%C3%B3

http://i59.tinypic.com/2m6x4pe.jpg

Ubirajara
2014-08-07, 22:23
A documentary on the Xuetas telling the story of Miquel Segura too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyQYOUDE24w

Two other pics of the Xueta (now returned Jew) Miquel Segura (he could easily pass for a stereotypical Jew, either Sephardic or Ashkenazi):

http://i61.tinypic.com/m91v1z.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/352kmeo.jpg

Radiohead
2014-08-07, 22:45
Why so much hate against the Jews? :(

Ubirajara
2014-08-07, 23:18
Why so much hate against the Jews? :(

On this thread, none. I am just sharing interesting information. It is remarkable that they managed to keep different customs and different genetics, particularly in that context, strongly Catholic oriented Spain and Portugal.

Caipira
2014-08-08, 20:16
Wasn't writer Miguel de Cervantes from this Xueta background? Many of his rivals at the time suggested that he had Jewish background in a form to humilate him.

Looks like the Spaniards cared more about it than the Portuguese. There were many notable Portuguese settlers in Colonial Brazil from confirmed New-Christian background, like Fernando de Noronha. However, the Portuguese Inquisição was strong in the 18th century, specially in Minas Gerais. The only "safe haven" for Jews in Spanish America that I know more about was Santa Cruz de la Sierra, in Bolívia, founded by Ñuflo de Chávez.

Former Portuguese President Jorge Sampaio was from New-Christian background:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Jorge_Sampaio.jpg

proud adhd make
2014-08-08, 21:26
there is no such thing jewish phenotypes nor jewish race for that matter,jews from the middle east look like middle eastern jews from ethiopia look like ethiopians,jews from china look like chinese,jews from europe look like europeans and so on. it is that simple.

Ubirajara
2014-08-09, 02:54
Jorge Sampaio had partial Moroccan Jewish ancestry on his maternal side (Sephardic Jews who fled to Morocco).


His maternal grandmother Sara Bensliman Bensaúde, who died in 1976, was a of Sephardi Jew from Morocco of Portuguese origin, and his maternal grandfather Fernando Branco (1880–1940) was a Naval Officer of the Portuguese Navy and later the Foreign Minister of Portugal;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Sampaio


Former Portuguese President Jorge Sampaio was from New-Christian background:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Jorge_Sampaio.jpg

Caipira
2014-08-09, 04:10
Fernando Pessoa also had Jewish background. He was often cited in Mário Saa's book A Invasão dos Judeus ("The Jewish Invasion"). Mário Saa was a known antisemite and wrote many works about the Jewish presence on the Portuguese society of his days. He considered the Portuguese Republic to be a "Jewish plan to conquer Portugal". :lol:

In this book A Invasão dos Judeus, Mário Saa described the "typical phenotype of the Portuguese Jew". He often says that the "true Portuguese people" descends mainly from the Suebs and that the country was overrun by "Sephardic hordes". :ashamed:

The funny thing is that many Old Christians he described so proudly have more "Jewish phenotype" than New Christians he describes pejoratively.

- - - Updated - - -

According to Mr. Saa, these were totally true Portuguese, from Suebian and Gothic stock, all Old Christians that developed Portugal:

http://i.imgur.com/xtJ8oBz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WEhsQd5.jpg

While these, according to the same gentleman, were not true Portuguese, but rather descendants from the Asian hordes that ended the "Suebian Civilization":

http://i.imgur.com/6y6sshe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pAeoUas.jpg

:lol:

Ubirajara
2015-01-22, 13:13
This is from a recent genetic study focusing on the crypto-jews from Belmonte and Bragança (among Belmonte crypto-jews haplogroup J is the very predominant male lineage, unlike among the Portuguese population in general):

http://i62.tinypic.com/28c387k.png


The purpose of this review is to summarize and critically revise the existing genetic data concerning the Portuguese Sephardic Jewish population. In this regard, other Sephardic population studies will be reviewed for contextualization. The historical background of the Sephardic Jews, with an emphasis on the Portuguese history, will be addressed. With the exception of the studies on the Chuetas, an isolated Mallorcan community from the Moslem period, 10th to 13th centuries (Santamaría Arández, 1997), currently available genetic studies on the original population from Iberia are restricted to Portugal, namely to Belmonte municipality and Bragança district (Northeast Portugal). Until the decree of expulsion and the establishment of the Inquisition in Portugal during the 15th century, the Portuguese Jewish communities had quite a similar history. From the 15th century on, however, most of the Portuguese Jews were either exiled, or assimilated into the general population with the exception of a few Crypto-Jewish communities. The Crypto-Jewish phenomenon is defined as the secret adherence to Judaism while publicly professing another faith. These communities have kept, for more than 500 years, their hidden religious practices and their cultural identity using complex social strategies. Among these communities, special mention is due to Belmonte, a small town in the center of Portugal and also to several small villages and towns in the Bragança district.

Uniparental genetic markers were typed in both communities (Adams et al., 2008;Nogueiro et al., 2010;Teixeira et al., 2011;Nogueiro et al., 2014), showing genetic profiles and levels of genetic diversity in accordance with their dissimilar recent history compared to the Portuguese general population.

In conclusion, the demographic processes underlying the genetic pool of the Portuguese Crypto-Jews descendants studied so far, are much more complex than would be expected under the classical model of extreme inbreeding and drift, with consequent loss of genetic diversity. The contrasting patterns observed in Bragança community and Belmonte are enough to sustain that whatever the results of future studies, no simple and uniform evolutionary model will accommodate the sharp heterogeneity already observed. Notwithstanding this difference, both groups display a genetic pool clearly showing contributions of European and Near Eastern lineages, in accordance with a significant persistence of a Jewish heritage, translated in a conscience of belonging to a distinctive community. This ancestry was detected within both male and female lineages, indicating that introgression from and admixture with the host population does seem to have been significantly gender biased. Moreover, the high genetic diversity found in Bragança demonstrates that there was neither a low number of founder lineages, nor a significant reduction of effective population size as indeed occurred in Belmonte. It remains to be explained how this resistance to genetic erosion, as expected in endogamous, small sized populations, was achieved, that is to say, what mating strategies were undertaken by these communities which ensured a steady gene flow between them, counteracting the expected inbreeding.

New data from recombining genetic markers in the line of Behar et al. (2010), as well as from classical genealogical studies, will surely contribute decisively to explain how this was achieved. At any rate, the DNA evidence gathered so far adds a new facet to the already recognized astonishing cultural resistance of these communities: not only they have kept a sense of belonging throughout centuries of persecution but they also succeeded in maintaining a genetic heritage of their own.
http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fgene.2015.00012/abstract

Ubirajara
2015-01-23, 01:05
This is a film about Antonio José da Silva, "o Judeu" ("the Jew"). He was born in Rio de Janeiro into a New Christian family. He was later executed by the Inquisition. I wonder where he would plot in a genetic map.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvB2LD9PGjI

António José da Silva Coutinho. (8 May 1705 – 18 October 1739) was a Brazilian dramatist, known as "the Jew" (O Judeu). The Brazilian spelling of his first name is Antônio, António José da Silva in Hebrew אנטוניו ז'וזה דה סילווה.

His parents, João Mendes da Silva and Lourença Coutinho, were descended from Jews who had emigrated to the colony of Brazil to escape the Inquisition, but in 1702 that tribunal began to persecute the Marranos or anyone of Jewish descent in Rio, and in October 1712 Lourença Coutinho became a victim. Her husband and children accompanied her to Portugal, where she figured among the "reconciled" in the auto-da-fé of July 9, 1713, after undergoing the torment only.

Her husband, having then acquired a fixed domicile in Lisbon, settled down to advocacy with success, and he was able to send António to the University of Coimbra, where he matriculated in the faculty of law. In 1726 António was suddenly imprisoned along with his mother on August 8; on the 16th he suffered the first interrogation, and on September 23 he was put to the torment, with the result that three weeks later he could not sign his name. He confessed to having followed the practices of the Mosaic law, and this saved his life.

He went through the great auto-da-fé held on October 23 in the presence of King John V and his court, abjured his errors, and was set at liberty. His mother was only released from prison in October 1729, after she had undergone torture and figured as a penitent in another auto-da-fé.

Meanwhile António had gone back to Coimbra, and finishing his course in 1728–1729 he returned to Lisbon and became associated with his father as an advocate. He found what he believed to be an ignorant and corrupt society ruled by an immoral yet fanatical monarch, who wasted millions on unprofitable buildings though the country was almost without roads and the people had become the most backward in Europe. As his plays show, the spectacle struck António's observation, but he had to criticize with caution.

He produced his first play or opera in 1733, and the next year he married his cousin, D. Leonor Maria de Carvalho, whose parents had been burnt by the Inquisition, while she herself had gone through an auto-da-fé in Spain and been exiled on account of her religion. They had their first daughter in 1734, but the years of their happiness and of Silva's dramatic career were few, for on October 5, 1737 husband and wife were both imprisoned on the charge of "judaizing." A slave of theirs had denounced them to the Holy Office. Though the details of the accusation against them seemed trivial and contradictory, and some of his friends testified about his Catholic piety and observation, António was condemned to death. On October 18, like those who wanted to die in the Catholic faith, he was first strangled and after had his body burnt in an auto-da-fé. His wife, who witnessed his death, did not long survive him.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant%C3%B3nio_Jos%C3%A9_da_Silva

Semitic Duwa
2015-01-23, 01:45
This is from a recent genetic study focusing on the crypto-jews from Belmonte and Bragança (among Belmonte crypto-jews haplogroup J is the very predominant male lineage, unlike among the Portuguese population in general):

http://i62.tinypic.com/28c387k.png


http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fgene.2015.00012/abstract

This was reviewed by Eran Elhaik, so unless I'm missing something none of this makes sense :lol:

dbbrainer
2015-01-23, 02:20
@ Ubirajara: Do you know of any tests or research done on conversos in the Americas? I would assume they would be close to Puertorican descendants of Sephardics in the sense that, out of those that did not mix with afro-indigenous admixed people, their Jewish ended up diluting within the Iberian genepool. In contrast, these Majorcan Jews were so endogamous that they practically had no Spanish component, right?

Ubirajara
2015-01-23, 11:19
@Ddbrainer, I haven't seen any. What I have seen on 23andme is many people in the Americas having a higher Ashkenazi score, which would imply greater Sephardic ancestry, particularly among Mexicans. Share with Moroccan, Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews, not to mention Ashkenazi from Eastern Europe, they all have a fair number of cousins in Latin America (people of colonial, older, ancestry). I agree with the researchers that it is astonishing how they could maintain a group with a distinctive genetic pattern within the Iberian societies in a hidden way for so long. Until ~1750 the distinction was legal so in a way it helped them to keep it, but it seems they managed to preserve it even after, in a few pockets (mainly in Belmonte, Portugal, and in Mallorca, Spain). The Majorcans kept well to themselves, but I have not seen how much, since I have not seen a plot or something. A native Iberian introgression could have taken place, though generally minor IMO.

Svin
2015-01-24, 12:29
This was reviewed by Eran Elhaik, so unless I'm missing something none of this makes sense :lol:

In all seriousness but, if you remember that outlier Sephardic Jew in Behars autosomal study, you know the guy who's swimming even almost a little north of Southern Italians in the Eurogenes plots? Well that one sample was from Belmonte, Portugal. Makes me really wonder if maybe they did endure some sort of recent admixture, because if Moroccan, Bulgarian, Turkish, Greek and Italian Jews are similar enough, why not this guy too? Strange . . .

Semitic Duwa
2015-01-24, 16:25
In all seriousness but, if you remember that outlier Sephardic Jew in Behars autosomal study, you know the guy who's swimming even almost a little north of Southern Italians in the Eurogenes plots? Well that one sample was from Belmonte, Portugal. Makes me really wonder if maybe they did endure some sort of recent admixture, because if Moroccan, Bulgarian, Turkish, Greek and Italian Jews are similar enough, why not this guy too? Strange . . .

Yeah I remember that sample from the Behar et al. 2010 study:

http://pichoster.net/images/2015/01/24/nature09103-f2.jpg

^^ The SbJ sample looks roughly ~2/3 Sephardic + 1/3 Iberian, I'd say it's pretty obvious that there was admixture with the locals... Still, the fact that he plots so close to the Sephardic-Ashkenazi cluster is quite amazing. But I'm sure Elhaik will prove us wrong by telling us he's just a far-flung Khazar who got lost and ended up in Iberia:whoco:

joeyC
2015-01-24, 16:50
Belmonte Jews are identical to other Sephardim.

Behar has them on this last paper and they cluster with other Sephardi in the admixture analysis.

- - - Updated - - -

They are between Italian and Turkish Jews.

http://i.imgur.com/sr0iWoJ.jpg

Semitic Duwa
2015-01-24, 18:11
Belmonte Jews are identical to other Sephardim.

Behar has them on this last paper and they cluster with other Sephardi in the admixture analysis.

- - - Updated - - -

They are between Italian and Turkish Jews.

http://i.imgur.com/sr0iWoJ.jpg

Not exactly, check the population correlation plots (Figure 4):

http://pichoster.net/images/2015/01/24/behar%20et%20al%202013%20fig%204%20belmonte.jpg

Even though this is hair-splitting to some extent (especially as far as the "Western" and "Eastern" AJ* as well as Sephardic correlations are of concern), it's pretty clear that the Belmonte Sephardim aren't intermediate between Italian and Turkish Jews.
In the same way, Syrian Jews are between Iranian and Kurdish Jews in Figure 3 even though they actually belong to the Sephardic-Ashkenazi-NA Jewish cluster (I just call it "Western Jewish cluster").

*: Something the authors themselves admit; "Third, relatively little observable genetic difference exists between representatives of eastern and western Ashkenazi Jewish populations, suggesting that genetically, the Ashkenazi Jewish population approximates a single large community (Guha and others, 2012)."

joeyC
2015-01-24, 20:03
They are identical to Italian and Turkish Jews going by admixture.

Unless you also believe that they are closer to Basques than to Cypriots...

Semitic Duwa
2015-01-24, 21:11
They are identical to Italian and Turkish Jews going by admixture.

Unless you also believe that they are closer to Basques than to Cypriots...

If you have trouble reading what I just wrote, I'm afraid there isn't much I can do for you.

joeyC
2015-01-24, 22:36
Reading what? Your graph say that Belmonte Jews are closer to French Basques than to Cypriots. Obviosuly there is something wrong with that.

In the ADMIXTURE analysis Belmonte Jews are impossible to tell apart from other Sephardi.

Now it's time to buy a pair of glasses.

Celph Titled
2015-01-25, 04:28
@Ddbrainer, I haven't seen any. What I have seen on 23andme is many people in the Americas having a higher Ashkenazi score, which would imply greater Sephardic ancestry, particularly among Mexicans. Share with Moroccan, Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews, not to mention Ashkenazi from Eastern Europe, they all have a fair number of cousins in Latin America (people of colonial, older, ancestry). I agree with the researchers that it is astonishing how they could maintain a group with a distinctive genetic pattern within the Iberian societies in a hidden way for so long. Until ~1750 the distinction was legal so in a way it helped them to keep it, but it seems they managed to preserve it even after, in a few pockets (mainly in Belmonte, Portugal, and in Mallorca, Spain). The Majorcans kept well to themselves, but I have not seen how much, since I have not seen a plot or something. A native Iberian introgression could have taken place, though generally minor IMO.

whatever happened to the Jews of the Azores islands, they basically do not exist anymore
i do know that they existed, the founder of Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, Mexico was from Portugal, there were also other Portuguese settlers who were from the Azores islands, when they were governing Northeastern Mexico, they brought large Azorean families of Jewish background to populate Northeastern Mexico (the old surnames of that region were basically Hispanized throughout time, the Fernandes became Fernandez, Marques became Marquez, Gomes became Gomez ect.)

what i want to ask you Ubirajara since you are Brazilian, i know Azoreans also settled in Brazil, do those Brazilians who descendant from those Azorean settlers come out with Sephardic Jewish background? i would think so, unless Brazil in that time prohibited them from entering the country

Ubirajara
2015-01-25, 12:03
what i want to ask you Ubirajara since you are Brazilian, i know Azoreans also settled in Brazil, do those Brazilians who descendant from those Azorean settlers come out with Sephardic Jewish background? i would think so, unless Brazil in that time prohibited them from entering the country

They may show up 0,2% up to 0,5% Ashkenazi on 23andme, but not over 1% like some many Mexicans. In Mexico the impact was greater IMO. The center of criptojews in Portugal was in Trás-os-Montes, Beira, Fundão, when the expelled Jews from Spain entered Portugal. From there it spread to the Azores, Madeira, etc. And sure, Azorean ancestry is pretty common in Brazil, only ancestry from the Minho, speaking of Portuguese ancestry, surpasses it.

Ubirajara
2015-08-27, 14:26
The Xuetas of Palma de Mallorca


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yquS2XDsfVY

Ubirajara
2015-10-14, 00:11
Xueta mtDNA study:
Oct 08, 2015


Introduction The presence of Jews in the Balearic Islands is archaeologically documented since the 5th century AD, but the Jewish communities that can trace a historical continuity with today’s Chuetas date back to the Muslim period (10–13th centuries). Although the Christian conquest of Majorca in 1229 guaranteed the survival of the Jewish population, social and religious pressures forced their conversion between 1391 and 1435. Many of these converted Jews were assimilated into the general population, but a good few families continued to live in the ghetto and keep a secret adherence to Judaism. This crypto-Jewish community was persecuted by the Inquisition (15–17th centuries) [1] and, although the last “Autos de Fe” in 1691 put an end to their hidden Jewish religious practices, these convicts and their descendants (called Chuetas) were socially isolated and discriminated by their Majorcan neighbors until the mid-twentieth century. Therefore, Chuetas were an inbred population with scarce intermarriage with the Majorcan host population [2]. The family names known as Chuetas in Mallorca are Aguiló, Bonnin, Cortés, Forteza, Fuster, Martí, Miró, Picó, Piña, Pomar, Segura, Tarongí, Valentí, Valleriola and Valls, which do not have any relationship with Judaism anywhere but in Majorca. Genetic similarities and differences among Jewish populations and between Jews and their host people have been widely studied in an attempt to unravel what must be a complex system of interrelations. Chuetas are, together with the crypto-Jewish communities in Portugal (from Bragança and Belmonte) [3], the only direct descendants of the original Sephardic population; hence they are an interesting population to be studied due to their particular history. Monoparental genetic markers have been widely used to further the knowledge of factors that have shaped modern human population’s structure. Moreover, monoparental lineage studies enable to estimate the maternal and paternal contributions to the genetic pool of a particular population. The aim of the present study was to study the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroups in a sample of Chueta individuals and to compare with other Jewish populations and with their host population, in order to investigate the founding maternal lineages in this population.

In the 109 individuals studied 50 different haplotypes were identified. The haplotype and nucleotide diversities of the complete CR were 0.952 and 0.010, respectively. Comparing with other Iberian Jewish population, the genetic diversity values were just slightly lower than in Bragança Crypto-Jews [7] and much higher than in the Portuguese Jewish community from Belmonte (Table 1), where a very strong founder maternal effect has been previously described [8]. High haplogroup (Hg) diversity was found in Chuetas (Fig. 1), with 35 different haplogroups. The Middle Eastern haplogroup R0a was the most prevalent (19.3%), followed by the widespread European haplogroup H (16.5%). In order to identify traits of Jewish ancestry, we took into account those Hgs with frequencies higher than 4% and significantly different frequencies to those found in the Majorcan host population [unpublished data]. The haplogroups that stood out in the Chueta sample were: R0a, T1a, T2c1d, K1a1b1a, U1a1a and L3e2b, indicating a remarkable signature of Middle Eastern ancestry along with some degree of European and North African admixture. The haplogroup pattern in Chuetas pointed out that the most important Jewish putative founding lineage is R0a, found in other Jewish (especially North Africans) and Middle Eastern populations, like Druzes, Palestinian and Bedouins, but not in Portuguese Jewish populations. 4. Conclusion These data confirm that the Chuetas, due to their singular history, have kept not only the cultural memory of their Jewish origin through centuries but also a substantial degree of ancestral genetic signature. Also some degree of the host admixture can be detected, as in other diaspora Jewish populations. The significant differences observed between Chuetas and their host population should therefore be taken into account in forensic casework.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/282432998_FOUNDING_MOTHERS_OF_CHUETA_POPULATION

fd876
2016-05-29, 11:53
What do you think about it? I find it kind of amazing that there are still two ethnic 'new christian' groups in Iberia, even if they are very small and the legal distinctions are gone a long ago. In Portugal the legal distinction between 'new' and 'old' christian was eliminated by Pombal around 1760. I suppose that kind of control existed in Spain as late as the XVIII century at least. New Christians kept to themselves. Astonishingly up to the XVIII century at least (Antonio José da Silva, "o Judeu", is an example of it, both his parents were conversos, and he married a converso cousin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Jos%C3%A9_da_Silva).

There are two ethnic judeoconverso ("new christian") enclaves in Iberia I'm aware of: the Xuetas from Majorca and those from Belmonte, Northern Portugal. They are very small communities. Those of Belmonte have managed to keep secret Jewish practices in spite of being an isolated endogamic group in the last 5 centuries. Both show Jewish genetics:

The Xuetas (an endogamic group of judeoconversos - "new christians") appeared quite Near Eastern compared to the rest of the population where they live (I've just read this study):


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chueta

http://www.uib.es/digitalAssets/127/127863_68_gen.pdf
http://i44.tinypic.com/25zi88g.jpg

The Belmonte Jews:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belmonte_Jews

Amazingly, a "New Christian" sample from Belmonte, Northern Portugal, plotted closer to other Jewish populations than to Iberians. They practiced so much endogamy that according to a Behar study a single haplotype would account for 93% of their maternal lineages (one also found among Sephardic diaspora communities from the former Ottoman Empire):

A map from an autusomal Behar DNA study on Jews (SJ - Sephardic Jews; AJ - Ashkenazi Jews; SbJ - Belmonte Jews; MJ - Moroccan Jews):

http://i42.tinypic.com/4kjl03.jpg

A very interesting documentary on the "last Marranos", the Xueta from Majorca were discriminated against as late as the XX century:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CpidcjO5uU

nice post. Wish we can find more detailed information tho.