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Ubirajara
2015-07-25, 15:05
What is your take on it?

I'm just reading about it (Robert Scheina's Latin American Wars). It began ironically with American settlers in Texas. Then they proclaimed their independence and a conflict went on, Texas winning its independence. Then Texas joined the US and the conflict continued, this time the American forces occupied California, Monterrey, and from Veracuz, Mexico City. Long distances were covered by both armies, often in inhospitable desert like conditions. The US had 21 million as opposed to 8 million Mexicans. It was politically more stable and it had an industrial/manufacturing edge. Even then, at that time, these advantages were not clear, and it seems many thought Mexico would have won. The US also had a powerful Navy, which blockaded Mexico, and operated both in the Atlantic and in the Pacific.

Ironically again, what began with Americans settling in then Mexican lands has reversed back. Texas, California and New Mexico are becoming ethnically Mexican again:

http://i60.tinypic.com/2rx9y6a.png

A map showing the military operations:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War_%28without_Scott%27s_ Campaign%29-en.svg

Vetton
2015-07-25, 16:10
What is your take on it?
Ironically again, what began with Americans settling in then Mexican lands has reversed back. Texas, California and New Mexico are becoming ethnically Mexican again:

I get your point, but the lands of what is now California, New Mexico, etc had their own natives not the same as what modern mexican immigrants are.

Celph Titled
2015-07-25, 17:59
yes, a lot of American protestants were settling in Mexico, places like Texas, New Mexico, California, even places that are now Mexico like Chihuahua and Sonora. The reason why Mexico allowed them to stay was because they thought they were Catholics, little did they know they were racist white American protestants who later on wanted to keep slavery alive even though Mexico had already abolished it, but I will talk about that later.

The governor Pio de Jesus Pico was very against these Americans settling our lands

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/94/50/fd/9450fd92ceef2ce98b08c71defea613e.jpg



Pio Pico, last Mexican Governor of Alta California, “What are we to do then? Shall we remain supine, while these daring strangers are overrunning our fertile plains, and gradually outnumbering and displacing us? Shall these incursions go on unchecked, until we shall become strangers in our own land?"

His questions remained unanswered from Mexico City


Now lets move on to the whole Texas thing and their independence, what happened was that these white American protestants did not like the idea that Mexico had already abolished slavery, in fact they were bringing in slaves with them, most of these americans were coming from the south so as you can imagine, they were bringing their racist views along with them. It is said that around 20,000 Anglos and their slaves settled in Texas, by 1825, one out of five American immigrant in Texas was an African slave. Now this is where the conflict started, Mexico was offering those black american slaves full citizenship to be free, they were also allowed to own land, among other privileges that they wouldnt of had in the USA. In 1827, the legislature of Texas outlawed the introduction of additional slaves and granted freedom at birth to all children born to a slave.

That is how the tensions between the Mexican government and the Anglo settlers started to grow, eventually they declared independence from Mexico all because they were not allowed to keep slaves or allowed for them to keep bringing in slaves from American territories.

Mexico lost Texas and those blacks in Texas also lost their freedom and went back to being slaves, but during that time Mexico opened up their borders to them and allowed them to enter Mexico where they would have freedom and privileges just like any other Mexican citizen, many did move to Mexico


Black Seminole leader John Horse and about 180 Black Seminoles staged a mass escape in 1849 to northern Mexico, where slavery had been abolished twenty years earlier. The black fugitives crossed to freedom in July 1850.[2] They rode with a faction of traditionalist Seminole under the Indian chief Coacochee, who led the expedition. The Mexican government welcomed the Seminole allies as border guards on the frontier, and they settled at Nacimiento, Coahuila.


Here they are now, living in Coahuila
http://i.imgur.com/b7RAbsm.jpg


In the USA, they do not talk about this, in American textbooks it doesn't say that the conflicted started because of slavery. Mexico fought hard for those black americans to keep their freedom and yet they think Mexicans are racist :sick: makes me sick to my stomach when they think that after what my people did for their enslaved ancestors, they should be thankful, but like I mentioned, all of this is not mentioned in American textbooks, so they wouldnt know.



and yes, those lands are now becoming majority Mexican, I think it is funny though :lol: I bet those white americans wouldnt have imagined it, all those wars and invasions for nothing

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I get your point, but the lands of what is now California, New Mexico, etc had their own natives not the same as what modern mexican immigrants are.

natives like native americans? they are many native americans that are shared by Northern Mexico and Southwest USA, the only thing dividing them is the border

you also have the Kickapoo people who are found in Mexico like in the USA

The Kickapoo people (Kickapoo: Kiikaapoa or Kiikaapoi) are an Algonquian-speaking Native American tribe. Anishinaabeg say the name "Kickapoo" (Giiwigaabaw in the Anishinaabe language and its Kickapoo cognate Kiwikapawa) means "Stands here and there," which may have referred to the tribe's migratory patterns. The name can also mean "wanderer". This interpretation is contested and generally believed to be a folk etymology.

Today there are three federally recognized Kickapoo tribes in the United States: Kickapoo Tribe of Indians of the Kickapoo Reservation in Kansas, the Kickapoo Tribe of Oklahoma, and the Kickapoo Traditional Tribe of Texas. The Oklahoma and Texas bands are politically associated with each other. Around 3,000 people are enrolled tribal members. Another band, the Tribu Kikapú resides in Múzquiz Municipality, in the Mexican state of Coahuila.

filrabat
2015-07-25, 20:20
I don't think you can pin the Texas Revolution entirely on slavery, though slavery was definitely a major contributing factor.

*Racial superiority notions against Native Americans were also present even outside the slave-holding areas ("We can use this land a hell of a lot more efficiently than THEY can!").

*There were religious issues too (Catholic vs Protestant, as you said).

*Add plain old territorial greed ("Manifest Destiny" was already present, even before journalist Horace Greeley articulated the concept).

*The war was likely anyway. If the boundary dispute in Texas did not set off the war, the discovery of gold in California in 1849 surely would have (discovery happened just a few months after the Mexican Cession). California also had a lot of Anglo settlers, though practically no slaves that I'm aware of.

Celph Titled
2015-07-25, 23:00
I don't think you can pin the Texas Revolution entirely on slavery, though slavery was definitely a major contributing factor.

*Racial superiority notions against Native Americans were also present even outside the slave-holding areas ("We can use this land a hell of a lot more efficiently than THEY can!").

*There were religious issues too (Catholic vs Protestant, as you said).

*Add plain old territorial greed ("Manifest Destiny" was already present, even before journalist Horace Greeley articulated the concept).

*The war was likely anyway. If the boundary dispute in Texas did not set off the war, the discovery of gold in California in 1849 surely would have (discovery happened just a few months after the Mexican Cession). California also had a lot of Anglo settlers, though practically no slaves that I'm aware of.

The slavery issue was what triggered for the most part the war between Texas and Mexico. I haven't read much about California and other parts of the states that belonged to Mexico, although I do know that they also took slaves with them or were tying too.

The religion issue was not that serious, they just had more of a preference for Catholics than with other religions, that is why Irish immigrants were accepted in Mexico with no problem



Leaders in Mexico City became worried about immigrants taking over Texas, and they considered settling convicts in Texas or inviting Catholic migrants from Europe. In 1829 President Guerrero abolished slavery in Mexico's territories as a way of discouraging "Yankee" migration. In 1830, during the presidency of Anastasio Bustamante, Mexico's Congress passed a law prohibiting foreigners from settling on Mexican territory unless they had a passport issued by Mexico. Mexico vowed strict enforcement of laws against a further introduction of slaves, and it reimposed customs duties.

As you can see, most of the laws Mexico was reinforcing during that time was based on slavery, it was a way to make Americans not try to settle in those lands, because they were settling and bringing in slaves with them. The Mexican government did not put any laws against non-Catholics



Mexico began actively encouraging Mexicans and people from Europe, particularly from Switzerland and Germany, to settle in Texas. This upset the Anglos there. They were concerned about preserving their own culture and their ability to express themselves politically, including a demand that slavery be allowed.

They were demanding that slavery be allowed and for them to keep bringing them to Mexican territories. Eventually many Germans started to settle in Texas and Northeastern Mexico (that region and Texas were one big state) along with a tiny number of Swiss.

Ubirajara
2015-07-28, 12:55
This documentary is about the Anglo settlement in Texas. It began with Moses Austin, who brought 300 Anglo American settlers. It was out of this immigration that Texas went on to become an independent state and later to join the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA3smbU2b4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFJIR0YYI2A

Ebersdorf
2015-07-28, 14:28
Looking at the map above, it appears USA military forces marched through areas lived in by my wife's ancestors...makes me curious what the impact of that invasion was on her families.