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View Full Version : Gedmatch results of a Sami



Ubirajara
2016-03-04, 12:12
Quite interesting, are they not? What are your observations?

EUtest Oracle results:


EUtest Oracle results

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1EAST_EURO33.94
2SIBERIAN25.28
3SOUTH_BALTIC14.98
4NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO12.21
5ATLANTIC10.28
6EAST_ASIAN1.67
7WEST_AFRICAN0.98
8EAST_AFRICAN0.66

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Komi14.28
2Udmurt15.12
3Erzya23.99
4East_Finnish24.74
5East_Russian25.09
6North_Russian25.22
7South_Finnish28.56
8West_Russian32.61
9Ukrainian-Russian33.01
10North_Swedish34.51
11EE34.64
12Northwest_Russian34.75
13Belorussian35.06
14UA35.25
15PL35.4
16HU37.49
17LIT37.57
18KZ38.09
19Serbian38.74
20AT39

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 62%North_Russian+38%[email protected]
2 74.4%Udmurt+25.6%[email protected]
3 63.4%Erzya+36.6%[email protected]
4 62.6%East_Finnish+37.4%[email protected]
5 62.3%East_Russian+37.7%[email protected]
6 76.1%Komi+23.9%[email protected]
7 86.7%Udmurt+13.3%[email protected]
8 59.1%South_Finnish+40.9%[email protected]
9 83.6%Udmurt+16.4%[email protected]
10 84.3%Udmurt+15.7%[email protected]
11 54.1%EE+45.9%[email protected]
12 85%Komi+15%[email protected]
13 85.7%Komi+14.3%[email protected]
14 88.2%Komi+11.8%[email protected]
15 55.7%West_Russian+44.3%[email protected]
16 54%Northwest_Russian+46%[email protected]
17 53.8%Belorussian+46.2%[email protected]
18 55.4%Ukrainian-Russian+44.6%[email protected]
19 78.4%North_Russian+21.6%[email protected]
20 79.4%Erzya+20.6%[email protected]


EUtest 4-Ancestors Oracle

EUtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1EAST_EURO33.94
2SIBERIAN25.28
3SOUTH_BALTIC14.98
4NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO12.21
5ATLANTIC10.28
6EAST_ASIAN1.67


Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Komi @ 13.964991
2 Udmurt @ 14.299222
3 Erzya @ 22.399822
4 East_Russian @ 23.397924
5 North_Russian @ 23.474998
6 East_Finnish @ 23.679682
7 South_Finnish @ 27.800812
8 West_Russian @ 31.053610
9 Ukrainian-Russian @ 31.300018
10 Northwest_Russian @ 33.293659
11 EE @ 33.438686
12 Belorussian @ 33.577019
13 UA @ 33.944675
14 PL @ 34.058773
15 North_Swedish @ 34.381725
16 LIT @ 36.682125
17 Selkup @ 37.156391
18 HU @ 37.282078
19 KZ @ 38.185596
20 Serbian @ 38.936920

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% EE +50% Selkup @ 9.524814


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Komi +25% Selkup +25% Udmurt @ 7.091388


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 East_Finnish + Selkup + Udmurt + Udmurt @ 6.383100
2 East_Finnish + Komi + Selkup + Udmurt @ 6.662943
3 North_Russian + Selkup + Udmurt + Udmurt @ 6.739915
4 Komi + North_Russian + Selkup + Udmurt @ 6.781054
5 Komi + Selkup + Udmurt + Udmurt @ 6.825252
6 Selkup + South_Finnish + Udmurt + Udmurt @ 6.858149
7 Selkup + Udmurt + Udmurt + Udmurt @ 6.903999
8 Komi + Komi + Selkup + Udmurt @ 7.091388
9 Komi + Selkup + South_Finnish + Udmurt @ 7.101744
10 East_Russian + Selkup + Udmurt + Udmurt @ 7.159686
11 Komi + Komi + North_Russian + Selkup @ 7.160079
12 Erzya + Komi + Selkup + Udmurt @ 7.200747
13 Erzya + Selkup + Udmurt + Udmurt @ 7.223562
14 East_Russian + Komi + Selkup + Udmurt @ 7.243420
15 East_Finnish + Komi + Komi + Selkup @ 7.268037
16 Erzya + Komi + Komi + Selkup @ 7.503354
17 East_Russian + Komi + Komi + Selkup @ 7.645380
18 Komi + Komi + Selkup + South_Finnish @ 7.652911
19 East_Finnish + Erzya + Selkup + Udmurt @ 7.654217
20 East_Finnish + North_Russian + Selkup + Udmurt @ 7.660334

Done.

Elapsed time 0.2122 seconds.

Dodecad K12b Oracle results:


Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1North_European52.92
2Siberian22.05
3Atlantic_Med10.25
4East_Asian6.28
5Sub_Saharan2.98
6Gedrosia2.65
7South_Asian1.15
8Southeast_Asian1.01
9East_African0.7

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Chuvashs (Behar)11
2Russian (HGDP)22.38
3Mordovians (Yunusbayev)23.77
4FIN30 (1000Genomes)26.22
5Russian (Dodecad)27.17
6Finnish (Dodecad)27.89
7Russian_B (Behar)28.31
8Mixed_Slav (Dodecad)28.75
9Ukranians (Yunusbayev)29.99
10Polish (Dodecad)30.36
11Belorussian (Behar)31.09
12Hungarians (Behar)32.47
13Swedish (Dodecad)32.7
14Lithuanian (Dodecad)32.84
15Norwegian (Dodecad)34.25
16Lithuanians (Behar)34.33
17German (Dodecad)34.38
18Dutch (Dodecad)38.06
19Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad)38.18
20CEU30 (1000Genomes)39.75

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 75.2%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+24.8%Yakut (HGDP)@5.85
2 70.5%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+29.5%Tuva (Rasmussen)@6.36
3 74.1%Finnish (Dodecad)+25.9%Yakut (HGDP)@6.45
4 75.6%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+24.4%Yukagir (Rasmussen)@6.69
5 69.2%Finnish (Dodecad)+30.8%Tuva (Rasmussen)@6.86
6 69.8%Lithuanians (Behar)+30.2%Yakut (HGDP)@6.99
7 76.7%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+23.3%Evenk (Rasmussen)@7.03
8 74.4%Finnish (Dodecad)+25.6%Yukagir (Rasmussen)@7.3
9 73.8%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+26.2%Dolgan (Rasmussen)@7.36
10 70%Lithuanians (Behar)+30%Yukagir (Rasmussen)@7.41
11 67.5%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+32.5%Altai (Rasmussen)@7.57
12 75.6%Finnish (Dodecad)+24.4%Evenk (Rasmussen)@7.71
13 71.3%Lithuanians (Behar)+28.7%Evenk (Rasmussen)@7.72
14 72.2%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+27.8%Buryat (Rasmussen)@7.77
15 66%Finnish (Dodecad)+34%Altai (Rasmussen)@7.89
16 72.6%Finnish (Dodecad)+27.4%Dolgan (Rasmussen)@7.95
17 70.9%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+29.1%Yakut (HGDP)@7.96
18 78.8%Russian (HGDP)+21.2%Yakut (HGDP)@8
19 79%Russian (HGDP)+21%Yukagir (Rasmussen)@8.11
20 71.1%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+28.9%Yukagir (Rasmussen)@8.16


Dodecad K12b 4-Ancestors Oracle

The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1North_European52.92
2Siberian22.05
3Atlantic_Med10.25
4East_Asian6.28
5Sub_Saharan2.98
6Gedrosia2.65
7South_Asian1.15
8Southeast_Asian1.01

Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Chuvashs @ 11.832398
2 Russian @ 22.493855
3 Mordovians @ 23.906885
4 FIN30 @ 26.798918
5 Russian @ 27.180740
6 Russian_B @ 28.558954
7 Finnish @ 28.634939
8 Mixed_Slav @ 28.673565
9 Ukranians @ 30.055437
10 Polish @ 30.118151
11 Belorussian @ 31.128338
12 Swedish @ 32.663559
13 Hungarians @ 32.822582
14 Lithuanian @ 33.058243
15 Norwegian @ 34.515095
16 German @ 34.609623
17 Lithuanians @ 34.778652
18 Dutch @ 38.720879
19 Mixed_Germanic @ 38.889748
20 CEU30 @ 40.613102

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Chuvashs +50% Chuvashs @ 11.832398


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% FIN30 +25% FIN30 +25% Yakut @ 5.519077


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 FIN30 + FIN30 + FIN30 + Yakut @ 5.519077
2 FIN30 + FIN30 + Russian + Yakut @ 5.658966
3 FIN30 + FIN30 + Russian + Yakut @ 5.679262
4 FIN30 + Finnish + Russian + Yakut @ 5.729127
5 FIN30 + FIN30 + Finnish + Yakut @ 5.762564
6 FIN30 + FIN30 + Mordovians + Yakut @ 5.773994
7 FIN30 + Finnish + Russian + Yakut @ 5.780662
8 FIN30 + Finnish + Mordovians + Yakut @ 5.813045
9 Finnish + Finnish + Russian + Yakut @ 5.856310
10 Finnish + Finnish + Mordovians + Yakut @ 5.901878
11 FIN30 + FIN30 + Lithuanian + Yakut @ 5.903740
12 Finnish + Finnish + Russian + Yakut @ 5.934350
13 FIN30 + FIN30 + Lithuanians + Yakut @ 6.006109
14 Chuvashs + Finnish + Finnish + Yukagir @ 6.007059
15 FIN30 + Finnish + Finnish + Yakut @ 6.049306
16 FIN30 + FIN30 + Mixed_Slav + Yakut @ 6.072142
17 Chuvashs + FIN30 + Finnish + Yukagir @ 6.075535
18 FIN30 + Finnish + Mixed_Slav + Yakut @ 6.121606
19 FIN30 + FIN30 + Russian_B + Yakut @ 6.130524
20 Belorussian + FIN30 + FIN30 + Yakut @ 6.136892

Done.

Elapsed time 2.6213 seconds.

Eurogenes k13:


Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1Baltic45.29
2Siberian24.88
3North_Atlantic21.47
4Amerindian3.29
5South_Asian1.68
6East_Asian1.53
7Sub-Saharan1.2
8Oceanian0.35
9West_Asian0.3

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Mari9.8
2Chuvash11.05
3Tatar18.09
4East_Finnish19.68
5Erzya20.95
6Kargopol_Russian21
7Finnish22.64
8Estonian25.54
9Southwest_Russian26.27
10Southwest_Finnish26.33
11Estonian_Polish26.84
12Belorussian27.18
13Ukrainian_Belgorod27.48
14Russian_Smolensk27.62
15Lithuanian27.84
16Ukrainian28.12
17Ukrainian_Lviv28.36
18Polish28.8
19South_Polish29.13
20La_Brana-129.24

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 69.3%East_Finnish+30.7%[email protected]
2 69.4%East_Finnish+30.6%[email protected]
3 63.4%Estonian+36.6%[email protected]
4 66.4%Finnish+33.6%[email protected]
5 61.3%Lithuanian+38.7%[email protected]
6 63.4%Estonian+36.6%[email protected]
7 66.5%Finnish+33.5%[email protected]
8 72.6%Mari+27.4%[email protected]
9 75.8%Mari+24.2%[email protected]
10 61.3%Lithuanian+38.7%[email protected]
11 77.7%East_Finnish+22.3%[email protected]
12 80.9%Mari+19.1%[email protected]
13 79.2%Mari+20.8%[email protected]
14 79.6%East_Finnish+20.4%[email protected]
15 79.2%East_Finnish+20.8%[email protected]
16 79.4%Mari+20.6%[email protected]
17 83.5%Mari+16.5%[email protected]
18 77.3%East_Finnish+22.7%[email protected]
19 70.6%Lithuanian+29.4%[email protected]
20 86.9%Mari+13.1%[email protected]


Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1Baltic45.29
2Siberian24.88
3North_Atlantic21.47
4Amerindian3.29
5South_Asian1.68
6East_Asian1.53
7Sub-Saharan1.20


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Mari @ 11.231953
2 Chuvash @ 12.333737
3 Tatar @ 19.802999
4 East_Finnish @ 19.992474
5 Kargopol_Russian @ 21.095182
6 Erzya @ 21.199106
7 Finnish @ 23.199905
8 Estonian @ 25.967056
9 Southwest_Russian @ 26.452557
10 Estonian_Polish @ 26.927103
11 Belorussian @ 27.293833
12 Southwest_Finnish @ 27.434757
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 27.669825
14 Russian_Smolensk @ 27.714188
15 Lithuanian @ 28.007650
16 Ukrainian @ 28.517115
17 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 28.794773
18 Polish @ 29.073448
19 La_Brana-1 @ 29.508001
20 South_Polish @ 29.670759

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% East_Finnish +50% Mari @ 9.082389


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% East_Finnish +25% Mari +25% Selkup @ 6.201004


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 East_Finnish + Estonian + Mari + Selkup @ 6.182723
2 East_Finnish + East_Finnish + Mari + Selkup @ 6.201004
3 East_Finnish + Finnish + Mari + Selkup @ 6.204380
4 East_Finnish + East_Finnish + East_Finnish + Selkup @ 6.230320
5 Chuvash + East_Finnish + East_Finnish + Selkup @ 6.294711
6 Estonian + Finnish + Mari + Selkup @ 6.358221
7 Finnish + Finnish + Mari + Selkup @ 6.422235
8 East_Finnish + La_Brana-1 + Mari + Selkup @ 6.466443
9 East_Finnish + East_Finnish + Ket + Mari @ 6.500505
10 Chuvash + East_Finnish + Finnish + Selkup @ 6.506565
11 East_Finnish + Estonian + Ket + Mari @ 6.530151
12 East_Finnish + Lithuanian + Mari + Selkup @ 6.539822
13 Estonian + Estonian + Mari + Selkup @ 6.549804
14 Finnish + Lithuanian + Mari + Selkup @ 6.578066
15 East_Finnish + Finnish + Ket + Mari @ 6.594111
16 East_Finnish + East_Finnish + East_Finnish + Ket @ 6.614462
17 Chuvash + East_Finnish + Estonian + Selkup @ 6.656024
18 Chuvash + East_Finnish + East_Finnish + Ket @ 6.663435
19 Estonian + La_Brana-1 + Mari + Selkup @ 6.673038
20 La_Brana-1 + Lithuanian + Mari + Selkup @ 6.687708

Huck Finn
2016-03-04, 12:43
Very sensible results, I'd say. None of the single populations make a good match, you have to fex combine an East Finn such as myself with something like Selkup in order to get a better Saami match. This is very much in line with studies like Busby et al 2015. Finns, Erzyas, Mokshas and (yes indeed Aeon) Russians, probably some other groups like that too, are all biased slighly towards (mostly Western, according to Pugach et al 2015) Siberia but people like Saami and Chuvash are even more biased towards different types of Siberia, including the Western one, in the first case probably because of more Northern admixes and in the second one because of more eastern Volgaic Turkic component.

Ubirajara
2016-03-04, 12:52
Dodecad World 9:


Gedmatch.Com
World9 4-Ancestors Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1Atlantic_Baltic57.98
2Siberian23.76
3Caucasus_Gedrosia5.70
4African3.67
5East_Asian3.64
6Amerindian3.50
7South_Asian1.35


Using 1 population approximation:
1 Chuvashs @ 11.232799
2 Aleut @ 11.622582
3 Russian @ 23.578217
4 Mordovians @ 23.764305
5 Russian @ 27.018038
6 FIN30 @ 27.832911
7 Finnish @ 28.025549
8 Russian_B @ 28.318577
9 Ukranians @ 29.546967
10 Hungarians @ 30.278934
11 Belorussian @ 31.478308
12 Polish @ 31.835608
13 German @ 32.184288
14 CEU30 @ 32.204590
15 Dutch @ 32.274670
16 Mixed_Germanic @ 32.355324
17 AthabaskHD4 @ 32.472427
18 British @ 32.541210
19 Argyll @ 32.610321
20 Swedish @ 32.749104

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +50% Selkup @ 9.204177


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Finnish +25% Aleut +25% Yukagir @ 5.105581


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Finnish + Lithuanian + Aleut + Dolgan @ 4.965585
2 Lithuanian + Aleut + Dolgan + FIN30 @ 4.988650
3 Finnish + Lithuanians + Aleut + Dolgan @ 5.042583
4 Lithuanians + Aleut + Dolgan + FIN30 @ 5.072010
5 Finnish + Aleut + Yukagir + FIN30 @ 5.099835
6 Aleut + Yukagir + FIN30 + FIN30 @ 5.099970
7 Finnish + Finnish + Aleut + Yukagir @ 5.105581
8 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Aleut + Dolgan @ 5.152908
9 Finnish + Lithuanian + Aleut + Yukagir @ 5.195012
10 Lithuanian + Aleut + Yukagir + FIN30 @ 5.205859
11 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Evenk + Aleut @ 5.212732
12 Lithuanian + Lithuanians + Aleut + Dolgan @ 5.264457
13 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Yakut + Aleut @ 5.273965
14 Finnish + Lithuanians + Aleut + Yukagir @ 5.286301
15 Lithuanians + Aleut + Yukagir + FIN30 @ 5.296741
16 Lithuanian + Lithuanians + Evenk + Aleut @ 5.317589
17 Swedish + Lithuanian + Aleut + Dolgan @ 5.364439
18 Finnish + Swedish + Aleut + Yukagir @ 5.373277
19 Lithuanians + Lithuanians + Aleut + Dolgan @ 5.380016
20 Lithuanian + Yakut + Lithuanians + Aleut @ 5.383185

Done.

Elapsed time 1.1247 seconds.


World9 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1Atlantic_Baltic57.98
2Siberian23.76
3Caucasus_Gedrosia5.7
4African3.67
5East_Asian3.64
6Amerindian3.5
7South_Asian1.35
8Australasian0.4

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Chuvashs (Behar)10.57
2Aleut11.95
3Russian (HGDP)21.94
4Mordovians (Yunusbayev)22.2
5Russian (Dodecad)25.19
6FIN30 (1000Genomes)25.61
7Finnish (Dodecad)25.76
8Russian_B (Behar)26.42
9Ukranians (Yunusbayev)27.78
10Hungarians (Behar)28.79
11Belorussian (Behar)29.38
12Polish (Dodecad)29.79
13German (Dodecad)30.35
14CEU30 (1000Genomes)30.36
15Swedish (Dodecad)30.47
16Dutch (Dodecad)30.47
17Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad)30.61
18Argyll (1000 Genomes)30.62
19British (Dodecad)30.65
20Norwegian (Dodecad)30.79

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 62.7%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+37.3%[email protected]
2 64.2%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+35.8%[email protected]
3 73.3%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+26.7%Yakut (HGDP)@6.2
4 69.8%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+30.2%[email protected]
5 73.2%Finnish (Dodecad)+26.8%Yakut (HGDP)@6.26
6 68.5%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+31.5%[email protected]
7 64%Lithuanians+36%[email protected]
8 62.6%Lithuanians+37.4%[email protected]
9 69.7%Finnish (Dodecad)+30.3%[email protected]
10 68.3%Finnish (Dodecad)+31.7%[email protected]
11 68.6%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+31.4%[email protected]
12 68.1%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+31.9%Yakut (HGDP)@6.44
13 65.9%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+34.1%[email protected]
14 73.8%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+26.2%[email protected]
15 66.6%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+33.4%[email protected]
16 66.5%Finnish (Dodecad)+33.5%[email protected]
17 73.7%Finnish (Dodecad)+26.3%[email protected]
18 71.4%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+28.6%[email protected]
19 60.8%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+39.2%[email protected]
20 68.4%Lithuanians+31.6%[email protected]

Rugevit
2016-03-04, 13:37
Very sensible results, I'd say. None of the single populations make a good match, you have to fex combine an East Finn such as myself with something like Selkup in order to get a better Saami match. This is very much in line with studies like Busby et al 2015. Finns, Erzyas, Mokshas and (yes indeed Aeon) Russians, probably some other groups like that too, are all biased slighly towards (mostly Western, according to Pugach et al 2015) Siberia but people like Saami and Chuvash are even more biased towards different types of Siberia, including the Western one, in the first case probably because of more Northern admixes and in the second one because of more eastern Volgaic Turkic component.


Saami ancestry has been enigma to me. They seem to have north Uralic and eastern Finnish ancestry which makes sense.

Huck Finn
2016-03-04, 14:08
Saami ancestry has been enigma to me. They seem to have north Uralic and eastern Finnish ancestry which makes sense.

I'd say that a herder group of West Uralic speaking origin, arriving from the Upper Volga area via Finland-Russian Karelia, quite lately i.e. sometime in the Bronze Age-early Iron Age, has assimilated both Paleo Scandinavians but also other, genetically more northern and eastern and linguistically probably also Non Uralic immigrants, which have been travelling by or along the Arctic Coast.

"North Uralic" in terms of genetics seems to be based on admixes with people such as Evenki.

Rugevit
2016-03-04, 15:15
I'd say that a herder group of West Uralic speaking origin, arriving from the Upper Volga area via Finland-Russian Karelia, quite lately i.e. sometime in the Bronze Age-early Iron Age, has assimilated both Paleo Scandinavians but also other, genetically more northern and eastern and linguistically probably also Non Uralic immigrants, which have been travelling by or along the Arctic Coast.

"North Uralic" in terms of genetics seems to be based on admixes with people such as Evenki.

As an eastern Finn how do you view Saami? Cultural and genetic cousins or a foreign group of people such as Komi and Udmurts despite linguistic connection ?

Huck Finn
2016-03-04, 16:40
As an eastern Finn how do you view Saami? Cultural and genetic cousins or a foreign group of people such as Komi and Udmurts despite linguistic connection ?
Well, being Eastern Finn is, in my case, very much a genetic issue, to be honest. Saami, then, are just ordinary citizens of Finland in my eyes, good people, even though I do appreciate the fact that they have their own features and traditions, which is just nice. Actually, the whole idea of Saami being some kind of "cousins" feels wrong. They are us, kind of extended family, with all due respect.

Rugevit
2016-03-04, 17:07
Well, being Eastern Finn is, in my case, very much a genetic issue, to be honest. Saami, then, are just ordinary citizens of Finland in my eyes, good people, even though I do appreciate the fact that they have their own features and traditions, which is just nice. Actually, the whole idea of Saami being some kind of "cousins" feels wrong. They are us, kind of extended family, with all due respect.


Interesting!

Personally, I view all our immediate neighbours (Balts and Slavs including Russians of western Russia) as our cousins. Even some Finno-Ugric people of Russia, Estonia and Finland appear to be closer than many west Europeans.

Lemminkäinen
2016-03-04, 19:20
I want to tell something considered self-evident and something that is not. First, the amount of Siberian doesn't tell who are Saami and who Finns. It is the language. But then this comes more difficult. Before the Russian rise there was a Baltic Finnic language filter in the area from Ladoga to Estonia, gradually reaching Finland from south and southeast. People passing this region shifted to Baltic Finnic languages and finally to the modern Finnish. Secondly, we have not much information about who descends from original Baltic Finnic speakers, regardless of where in Finland one lives today. In a deep history someone can have Baltic Finnic ancestry, another Saami/Lappish ancestry and then also IE-ancestry, or all those ancestries.

Ubirajara
2016-03-04, 21:55
Eurasia K10 CHG Oracle results:


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 WHG 34.17
2 E_Asian 26.39
3 EHG 20.08
4 CHG 10.74
5 Anatolian_Farmers 5.5
6 W_African 2.19
7 Amerindian 0.92

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tatars 13.46
2 Russian 22.68
3 Karelia 23.41
4 Finnish 24.17
5 Scythian_IA 28.03
6 Ukrainian 28.91
7 RISE_baSin 29.55
8 Estonian 29.63
9 Belarusian 29.77
10 Norwegian 30.15
11 Turkmen_Afghan 30.15
12 Hungarian 30.52
13 Scottish 30.53
14 Czech 30.54
15 Icelandic 30.54
16 Lithuanian 30.92
17 Uzbek 31.12
18 English 31.52
19 Croatian 32.28
20 French 33.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.6% Finnish + 33.4% Altaian @ 4.66
2 75.4% Finnish + 24.6% Nganasan @ 5.04
3 67.4% Karelia + 32.6% Altaian @ 5.4
4 65% Finnish + 35% Kyrgyz @ 5.58
5 76.7% Russian + 23.3% Nganasan @ 5.62
6 61.8% Estonian + 38.2% Altaian @ 5.7
7 71.3% Estonian + 28.7% Nganasan @ 5.7
8 76.1% Karelia + 23.9% Nganasan @ 5.76
9 70.4% Lithuanian + 29.6% Nganasan @ 6.01
10 77% Finnish + 23% Ulchi @ 6.02
11 60.8% Lithuanian + 39.2% Altaian @ 6.08
12 65.9% Karelia + 34.1% Kyrgyz @ 6.09
13 74.7% Finnish + 25.3% Mongola @ 6.19
14 75.5% Finnish + 24.5% Ami @ 6.33
15 75.2% Finnish + 24.8% Naga @ 6.39
16 78.3% Russian + 21.7% Ulchi @ 6.59
17 68.4% Russian + 31.6% Altaian @ 6.68
18 74.8% Finnish + 25.2% Dai @ 6.72
19 75.5% Karelia + 24.5% Mongola @ 6.8
20 77.7% Karelia + 22.3% Ulchi @ 6.82


Eurasia K10 CHG 4-Ancestors Oracle

Eurasia K10 CHG-NAF Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 WHG 34.17
2 E_Asian 26.39
3 EHG 20.08
4 CHG 10.74
5 Anatolian_Farmers 5.50
6 W_African 2.19


Finished reading population data. 134 populations found.
10 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatars @ 14.527328
2 Russian @ 23.851667
3 Karelia @ 24.679119
4 Finnish @ 25.403082
5 Scythian_IA @ 29.560871
6 Ukrainian @ 30.379900
7 RISE_baSin @ 30.911409
8 Estonian @ 31.166679
9 Belarusian @ 31.271200
10 Norwegian @ 31.670193
11 Scottish @ 32.048660
12 Hungarian @ 32.049824
13 Czech @ 32.056358
14 Icelandic @ 32.058609
15 Lithuanian @ 32.518681
16 Turkmen_Afghan @ 33.028145
17 English @ 33.101856
18 Uzbek @ 33.844830
19 Croatian @ 33.934147
20 French @ 34.782261

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Kyrgyz +50% Lithuanian @ 10.501219


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Finnish +25% Nganasan +25% RISE_baSin @ 1.848117


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Finnish + Finnish + Nganasan + RISE_baSin @ 1.848117
2 Finnish + Karelia + Nganasan + RISE_baSin @ 2.114889
3 Karelia + Karelia + Nganasan + RISE_baSin @ 2.591517
4 Estonian + Finnish + Nganasan + RISE_baSin @ 2.678784
5 Finnish + Finnish + RISE_baSin + Ulchi @ 2.721863
6 Estonian + Karelia + Nganasan + RISE_baSin @ 2.819253
7 Finnish + Nganasan + RISE_baSin + Russian @ 2.868507
8 Estonian + Finnish + RISE_baSin + Ulchi @ 2.896464
9 Finnish + Lithuanian + Nganasan + RISE_baSin @ 2.968117
10 Karelia + Lithuanian + Nganasan + RISE_baSin @ 3.029986
11 Finnish + Lithuanian + RISE_baSin + Ulchi @ 3.076531
12 Karelia + Nganasan + RISE_baSin + Russian @ 3.151349
13 Finnish + Karelia + RISE_baSin + Ulchi @ 3.191169
14 Estonian + Karelia + RISE_baSin + Ulchi @ 3.310090
15 Karelia + Lithuanian + Srubnaya + Ulchi @ 3.310301
16 Estonian + Karelia + Srubnaya + Ulchi @ 3.350415
17 Karelia + Lithuanian + RISE_baSin + Ulchi @ 3.416532
18 Estonian + Nganasan + RISE_baSin + Russian @ 3.454069
19 Belarusian + Finnish + Nganasan + RISE_baSin @ 3.528595
20 Belarusian + Karelia + Nganasan + RISE_baSin @ 3.589115

Done.

Elapsed time 0.4118 seconds.

Evi
2016-03-04, 22:55
Very interesting, thanks!

Kind of reminds my own results (I remind, in case if somebody here doesn't know, I have mother from Western Siberia). Interesting that this Saami person has so much Siberian admixture. By the way, what country is this Saami person from - Finland, Norway, Sweden or Russia?

Krefter
2016-03-04, 23:03
Here a result I got for Saami using D_stats and 4mix. It's consistent with those ADMIXTURE results. They basically look like typical North Europeans with a big chunk of extra Siberian.




EN_Hungary
Yamnaya
WHG
CHG
Ket



Saami
24%
31%
18%
--%
27%
0.0031

Evi
2016-03-04, 23:04
I'd say that a herder group of West Uralic speaking origin, arriving from the Upper Volga area via Finland-Russian Karelia, quite lately i.e. sometime in the Bronze Age-early Iron Age, has assimilated both Paleo Scandinavians but also other, genetically more northern and eastern and linguistically probably also Non Uralic immigrants, which have been travelling by or along the Arctic Coast.

"North Uralic" in terms of genetics seems to be based on admixes with people such as Evenki.
Actually there are quite several Uralic speaking ethnicities, who have Siberian component in them typically more than 10% - it is Maris and Udmurts, and several Komi people (certainly I don't even touch the topic about Ob-Ugrians and Samoyeds). The Siberian admixture could have very well be spread to Fennoscandia by Uralic-speakers themselves.

- - - Updated - - -


Well, being Eastern Finn is, in my case, very much a genetic issue, to be honest. Saami, then, are just ordinary citizens of Finland in my eyes, good people, even though I do appreciate the fact that they have their own features and traditions, which is just nice. Actually, the whole idea of Saami being some kind of "cousins" feels wrong. They are us, kind of extended family, with all due respect.
But how do you view Saami from Norway, Sweden or Russia? The ones, who aren't Finnish citizens.

Celph Titled
2016-03-04, 23:24
pretty cool results, I have always been curious about the Sami people, thanks for sharing

Huck Finn
2016-03-05, 08:18
Here a result I got for Saami using D_stats and 4mix. It's consistent with those ADMIXTURE results. They basically look like typical North Europeans with a big chunk of extra Siberian.




EN_Hungary
Yamnaya
WHG
CHG
Ket



Saami
24%
31%
18%
--%
27%
0.0031


The origin and nature of this Siberian in different Uralic groups has been a subject of somewhat heated discussions in a Finnish forum lately. The are people who, following the results of Busby et al Globetrotter ,say that Uralic speaking groups don't share the same Siberian i.e. these groups have acquired their special type of Siberian after the diffusion of Non Siberian Uralic speaking founder population. I don't personally believe in this model and stubbornly stick to the idea of Proto Uralic being born between Uralic and Altay Sayan, among a group of people with West Siberian traits.

This RISE_baSIN is interesting, among the matches. The vocabulary of Saami, related to herding, is in some cases based on Aryan-Indo Aryan-Iranic loans. So, I'd guess that herding was among Saami main subsistences all the way from Urals to Scandinavia and in that sense they still represent remains of ancient Scythian reindeer peoples, reindeer still fex visible in the tattoos of Ukok princess: "Genetic studies showed that the Pazyryks were a part of Samoyedic family, with elements of Iranian-Caucasian substratum."

http://siberiantimes.com/culture/others/features/siberian-princess-reveals-her-2500-year-old-tattoos/

Huck Finn
2016-03-05, 08:29
The Siberian admixture could have very well be spread to Fennoscandia by Uralic-speakers themselves.
Yes, but the amount and nature of the Siberian remains to be seen.

Ubirajara
2016-03-05, 12:27
By the way, what country is this Saami person from - Finland, Norway, Sweden or Russia?

It was not informed.

Lemminkäinen
2016-03-05, 13:37
The Busby et al using Globetrotter gives very drastic results of the Finnish amixture. While my tests show only decent Central European admixture, this study claims that the Finns are a mixture of Central Europeans and aboriginal Scandinavans related to Saami. The weird thing is that Busby is not the only one considering this kind of approach and forgettig Baltic Finns. Of course this is wrong, but this implies what is slowly happeng when more and more ancient samples give light on our suppositions. I am conviced that in the future scientists will see into our history with less bias.

Rugevit
2016-03-05, 16:12
If I was a Baltic Finn I would have viewed Saami as part of extended family (as Huck Finn stated). I would not care about their large chunk of Siberian in them. Even if Siberian ancestry was not viewed favourably in Europe.

Lemminkäinen
2016-03-05, 16:41
If I was a Baltic Finn I would have viewed Saami as part of extended family (as Huck Finn stated). I would not care about their large chunk of Siberian in them. Even if Siberian ancestry was not viewed favourably in Europe.

Yeah, as I wrote it is the language that matters, or should I write "that mattered". And many people shifted language, Actually I have never understood this debate about the Siberian forgetting almost everything else. It seems to be enthusiastic on foras like this one. I see it challenging to discuss with some people, because the Siberian issue has become an issue bigger than life, lol. If I don't all the time write about Siberian admixture it doesn't mean that I have issues or I hate Siberians ;)

Evi
2016-03-05, 17:33
The origin and nature of this Siberian in different Uralic groups has been a subject of somewhat heated discussions in a Finnish forum lately. The are people who, following the results of Busby et al Globetrotter ,say that Uralic speaking groups don't share the same Siberian i.e. these groups have acquired their special type of Siberian after the diffusion of Non Siberian Uralic speaking founder population.
Can you post these Busby et al Globetrotter results, please?

Huck Finn
2016-03-05, 17:50
Can you post these Busby et al Globetrotter results, please?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4714572/

Read the whole study, if possible, including supplementary stuff.

Aila
2016-03-05, 22:21
How one views Saami is relative to one’s personal reference point – I would think.

Those two more Western GEDmatch Saami samples with hefty doses of Siberian are my cousins.
A FennoScandian mix I would imagine.