Do Most Louisiana Creoles Consider Themselves as Afram??

[tweet]

Louisiana Creoles are a mixture of African, Amerindian and French. Ive have only met a few when I was in Houston and they seem pretty proud of their culture and heritage. Do they blend in with other Aframs racially or are they quite distinct ? Also do they tend to seperate themselves from Aframs?

KD Aubert is also Creole, please classify her. She looks Habesha Ethiopian in the second pic

8822 8823

[Neon Gumbo]

Louisiana Creoles are a mixture of African, Amerindian and French. Ive have only met a few when I was in Houston and they seem pretty proud of their culture and heritage. Do they blend in with other Aframs racially or are they quite distinct ? Also do they tend to seperathe themselves from Aframs?

Also KD Aubert is Creole, please classify her

8822 8823

1. We view ourselves as both. Creole is only a subculture of African American culture.

2. Most Creoles today have mixed with other African Americans.

3. There is no Creole look, many people associate such with light skin negro folk, however a Creole is anyone who has ancestors who were living in Louisiana before the Louisiana purchase.

4. No we do not separate ourselves from African Americans. Creoles are more to known to separate themselves from Cajuns.

[jonboyclem]

There's a grip of Lousiana Creoles where I'm from in Los Angeles and they are well assimlated in the Afram community here. Creoles tend to be more mixed than the average Afram, but it doesn't really matter as we both had to deal with the same racism from Whites during the Great Migrations.

[CAONABO]

Louisiana Creoles are a mixture of African, Amerindian and French. Ive have only met a few when I was in Houston and they seem pretty proud of their culture and heritage. Do they blend in with other Aframs racially or are they quite distinct ? Also do they tend to seperate themselves from Aframs?

Also KD Aubert is Creole, please classify her. She looks Habesha Ethiopian in the second pic

8822 8823

No, its like a sub-group within the Afram community. They don't consider themselves another minority ethnic group or 'racial' category. There is also the exotic element in influencing some Afram (mostly women) in claiming 'I got some Creole in me'.

[tweet]

No, its like a sub-group within the Afram community. They don't consider themselves another minority ethnic group or 'racial' category. There is also the exotic element in influencing some Afram (mostly women) in claiming 'I got some Creole in me'.

Oh dear, sounds like the usual old self hating techniques, a simple perm and skin whitening gel can fool anyone. :(

[Neon Gumbo]

Oh dear, sounds like the usual old self hating techniques, a simple perm and skin whitening gel can fool anyone. :(

Cross-over.

- Ex. Beyonce claimed no Creole roots until she went to France. Such terms are used too cross-over to make one self more relatable to the people who buys her records.

Tyra Banks once stated that the people of "industry" once wanted her to claim admixture from elsewhere to make herself less black, she decided to differ.

[Magneto]

KD Aubert is also Creole, please classify her. She looks Habesha Ethiopian in the second pic

8822 8823

KD Aubert is only partially "Creole" by her own admission


What is your ethnic background?

KD Aubert: African-American with a dash of Creole.

http://www.cutiecentral.com/bios/kdaubert/index.html


Louisiana Creoles are a mixture of African, Amerindian and French. Ive have only met a few when I was in Houston and they seem pretty proud of their culture and heritage. Do they blend in with other Aframs racially or are they quite distinct ? Also do they tend to seperate themselves from Aframs?

Im sure there are Franco African (Creole) individuals who don't identify as "black" the same way there are Anglo African (standard Afram) individuals who don't identify as "black" but overall I would say yes, most "Creoles" just identify as "black" along with "Creole" and "Afram". LA Creoles just like the rest of Aframs had to face the same racism and Jim Crows laws which is stated in the article I posted for you in another thread

Black Like I Thought I Was (the article is written by a "Creole" Afram about a black identified "Creole" who found out he didn't have any African ancestry


Wayne Joseph is a 51-year-old high school principal in Chino whose family emigrated from the segregated parishes of Louisiana to central Los Angeles in the 1950s, as did mine. Like me, he is of Creole stock and is therefore on the lighter end of the black color spectrum, a common enough circumstance in the South that predates the multicultural movement by centuries. And like most other black folk, Joseph grew up with an unequivocal sense of his heritage and of himself; he tends toward black advocacy and has published thoughtful opinion pieces on racial issues in magazines like Newsweek.When Joseph decided on a whim to take a new ethnic DNA test he saw described on a 60 Minutessegment last year, it was only to indulge a casual curiosity about the exact percentage of black blood; virtually all black Americans are mixed with something, he knew, but he figured it would be interesting to make himself a guinea pig for this new testing process, which is offered by a Florida-based company called DNA Print Genomics Inc. The experience would at least be fodder for another essay for Newsweek.He got his kit in the mail, swabbed his mouth per the instructions and sent off the DNA samples for analysis.

Now, I have always believed that what is now widely considered one of slavery’s worst legacies — the Southern “one-drop” rule that indicted anyone with black blood as a nigger and cleaved American society into black and white with a single stroke — was also slavery’s only upside. Of course I deplore the motive behind the law, which was rooted not only in white paranoia about miscegenation, but in a more practical need to maintain social order by keeping privilege and property in the hands of whites. But by forcing blacks of all complexions and blood percentages into the same boat, the law ironically laid a foundation of black unity that remains in place today. It’s a foundation that allows us to talk abstractly about a “black community” as concretely as we talk about a black community in Harlem or Chicago or South-Central (a liberty that’s often abused or lazily applied in modern discussions of race). And it gives the lightest-skinned among us the assurance of identity that everybody needs to feel grounded and psychologically whole — even whites, whose public non-ethnicity is really ethnicity writ so large and influential it needs no name. Being black may still not be the most advantageous thing in the world, but being nothing or being neutral — the rallying cry of modern-day multiculturalists — has never made any emotional or real-world sense. Color marks you, but your membership in black society also gives you an indestructible house to live in and a bed to rest on. I can’t imagine growing up any other way.

Wayne Joseph can’t, either. But when the results of his DNA test came back, he found himself staggered by the idea that though he still qualified as a person of color, it was not the color he was raised to think he was, one with a distinct culture and definitive place in the American struggle for social equality that he’d taken for granted. Here was the unexpected and rather unwelcome truth: Joseph was 57 percent Indo-European, 39 percent Native American, 4 percent East Asian — and zero percent African. After a lifetime of assuming blackness, he was now being told that he lacked even a single drop of black blood to qualify.

“My son was flabbergasted by the results,” says Joseph. “He said, ‘Dad, you mean for 50 years you’ve been passing for black?’” Joseph admits that, strictly speaking, he has. But he’s not sure if he can or wants to do anything about that at this point. For all the lingering effects of institutional racism, he’s been perfectly content being a black man; it’s shaped his worldview and the course of his life in ways that cannot, and probably should not, be altered. Yet Joseph struggles to balance the intellectual dishonesty of saying he’s black with the unimpeachable honesty of a lifelong experience of beingblack. “What do I do with this information?” he says, sounding more than a little exasperated. “It was like finding out you’re adopted. I don’t want to be disingenuous with myself. But I can’t conceive of living any other way. It’s a question of what’s logical and what’s visceral.”

http://www.laweekly.com/2003-10-09/calendar/black-like-i-thought-i-was

[nomar6]

There's a grip of Lousiana Creoles where I'm from in Los Angeles and they are well assimlated in the Afram community here. Creoles tend to be more mixed than the average Afram, but it doesn't really matter as we both had to deal with the same racism from Whites during the Great Migrations.



Ex baseball player Ken Landreaux is from Los Angeles but obvious Louisiana Creole.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/ken_landreaux_autograph.jpg

Kenneth Francis Landreaux (born December 22, 1954 in Los Angeles, California) is a former center fielder in Major League Baseball. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Landreaux - Cached - Similar



Their French last names and usually lighter skins and Catholic religion gives it away.

---------- Post added 2010-06-08 at 16:30 ----------


KD Aubert is only partially "Creole" by her own admission



Her last name is clearly French.

[tweet]

KD Aubert is only partially "Creole" by her own admission

Errm. I guess Creole doesnt really have a certain 'look' but she looks heavily mixed race

[Neon Gumbo]

Their French last names and usually lighter skins and Catholic religion gives it away.


- The majority of Creoles today have English last names, for many have taken up relationships with other African Americans.

- All Creoles are not light skin, thats a stereotype.

- Many have moved on from the Catholic church.

[CAONABO]

Oh dear, sounds like the usual old self hating techniques, a simple perm and skin whitening gel can fool anyone. :(

Nah, its nothing to do with 'self-hating' because claiming creole is independent of skin color/phenotype even though the common creole stereotype is of a more mixed looking Afram. Its not about claiming lightness of skin, its just an exotic factor. Don't forget I'm in a region in which being creole is not common at all.

---------- Post added 2010-06-08 at 23:38 ----------

@ tweet,
All you have to do is study the history behind Louisianan creoles and you will know how and why they evolved into that distinct sub-group. In my opinion, Lousiana (before coming under the USA) was as close to a typical LatinAmerica as the US got. Anyway, under the Afram racialethnic label in the USA, I consider these to be distinctive regional sub-groups:

-Lousiana creoles
-SouthEastern Geechee/Gullah

[tweet]

Nah, its nothing to do with 'self-hating' because claiming creole is independent of skin color/phenotype even though the common creole stereotype is of a more mixed looking Afram. Its not about claiming lightness of skin, its just an exotic factor. Don't forget I'm in a region in which being creole is not common at all.

---------- Post added 2010-06-08 at 23:38 ----------

@ tweet,
All you have to do is study the history behind Louisianan creoles and you will know how and why they evolved into that distinct sub-group. In my opinion, Lousiana (before coming under the USA) was as close to a typical LatinAmerica as the US got. Anyway, under the Afram racialethnic label in the USA, I consider these to be distinctive regional sub-groups:

-Lousiana creoles
-SouthEastern Geechee/Gullah

I watched a video made by a Louisiana creole who was very well informed about his history and distinguished Creoles from Aframs. These Creoles dont seem to accept the one droppism the way some Aframs do

Here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS6a2uFwztQ&feature=related

[CAONABO]

I watched a video made by a Louisiana creole who was very well informed about his history and distinguished Creoles from Aframs. These Creoles dont seem to accept the one droppism the way some Aframs do

Here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS6a2uFwztQ&feature=related

I know a Cuban who is personally well informed about Lousiana creoles, but I'll let the Aframs here opine on this since the ODR is a very delicate topic for some here.

[Johnny Blaze]

Louisiana Creoles are a mixture of African, Amerindian and French. Ive have only met a few when I was in Houston and they seem pretty proud of their culture and heritage. Do they blend in with other Aframs racially or are they quite distinct ? Also do they tend to seperate themselves from Aframs?

KD Aubert is also Creole, please classify her. She looks Habesha Ethiopian in the second pic

8822 8823

I always thought this gal was afro-latina.

[Neon Gumbo]

I know a Cuban who is personally well informed about Lousiana creoles, but I'll let the Aframs here opine on this since the ODR is a very delicate topic for some here.

Speak on it when your culture rids it self of it.

[jonboyclem]

I always thought this gal was afro-latina.

Louisiana Creoles are also Latins(In a way because of the French influence).

[Johnny Blaze]

I mean, in a sense, that I thought she was directly a rican or colombian, etc.

[Magneto]

I watched a video made by a Louisiana creole who was very well informed about his history and distinguished Creoles from Aframs. These Creoles dont seem to accept the one droppism the way some Aframs do

Here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS6a2uFwztQ&feature=related

I chatted with this guy before just to see what his agenda was and it wasn't exactly "LA Creole" specific. The guy is/was basically a multiculturalist/mulattocentric/mixedraced movmnt type. If you go to his site, FrenchCreoles, he has tons of pictures on "Anglo Aframs" who have no connection to French Creoles. The main factor with these "Anglo Aframs" that he posted were that they were what he thought of as mixed looking. This is how I came to find out his agenda, which wasn't about preserving "Creole" history.

[nomar6]

- The majority of Creoles today have English last names, for many have taken up relationships with other African Americans.

Were does it say that? Mayor Morial, the Gumbel's.



- All Creoles are not light skin, thats a stereotype.



really?




Many have moved on from the Catholic church.

Most are still catholic.

[tweet]

I chatted with this guy before just to see what his agenda was and it wasn't exactly "LA Creole" specific. The guy is/was basically a multiculturalist/mulattocentric/mixedraced movmnt type. If you go to his site, FrenchCreoles, he has tons of pictures on "Anglo Aframs" who have no connection to French Creoles. The main factor with these "Anglo Aframs" that he posted were that they were what he thought of as mixed looking. This is how I came to find out his agenda, which wasn't about preserving "Creole" history.


Yeah I did notice that on some of his videos he adds pictures of light skin mulattos and Cabo verdeans which is a bit annoying because Cabo Verdeans are not French Creole. He doesnt add darker skin French Creoles

Nontheless I do agree when he says that people should accept all their racial heritage

[CAONABO]

Speak on it when your culture rids it self of it.

*gives you some attention* Nonsensical post.

[Magneto]

Yeah I did notice that on some of his videos he adds pictures of light skin mulattos and Cabo verdeans which is a bit annoying because Cabo Verdeans are not French Creole. He doesnt add darker skin French Creoles

I actually called him on that too which Is why it was obvious what his agenda was/is.


Nontheless I do agree when he says that people should accept all their racial heritage

As I explained before, just because you identify as "black" doesn't mean one is disregarding whatever other non-african ancestry they may have.

[Neon Gumbo]

*gives you some attention* Nonsensical post.

Lemba said hes white in the DR; all you need is one drop of Spanish blood. :lol:

[CAONABO]

^
:whoco: And there goes another thread derailment attempt.

[Magneto]

Tweet, here goes loads of Aframs (the African Anglo variety) on this page that have nothing to do with preserving "LA Creole" roots

http://www.frenchcreoles.com/CreoleCulture/quadroons/mulattoes,%20mixed%20race,%20creoles2.html

All of those old black and white pictures he has on the bottom of the page and upper right are Anglo Aframs. His agenda isn't with "LA Creoles" but it's with the whole mixed race movmnt. Dude even posted Rosa Parks as a "mixed race hero" lol

[aBonner]

Louisiana Creoles are a mixture of African, Amerindian and French. Ive have only met a few when I was in Houston and they seem pretty proud of their culture and heritage. Do they blend in with other Aframs racially or are they quite distinct ? Also do they tend to seperate themselves from Aframs?


it really depends

not even everyone who considers themselves LA Creole or of Creole descent agree on the definition of who is LA Creole

many have intermarried into AA families/communities, many see themselves as 'black' and Creole (but not AA, different heritage/ethnicity but same 'race') , some see themselves as AA and Creole even if they are solely of Creole descent because of history and culture (I believe Lt Gen Honore is one, I also have a friend who is totally Creole but sees it as a cultural subset of AA) - feeling closer to LA, TX, etc AAs than anyone else
there are also others who still only marry other Creoles, who consider folks like Beyonce 'of Creole descent' but not Creole because only one of her parents is, for whom culture and ethnicity is paramount
there are some for whom class (pedigree) and race (mixed/light) are of greatest concern so when they 'marry out' they tend to go for certain Latin Americans, light/upwardly mobile AAs... and others of mixed (direct or ancestral) descent... but often no one white (definitely not Cajun) or 'black'
quite a number of older generations blended straight into the 'white' community, in the states the migrated too (especially Cali), but also into old white Creole families many of whom are now Cajun, or just 'regular' white American

there are light/fair Louisianans and people with southern LA roots who go to great pains to differentiate themselves from LA Creoles
there are brown/dark LA Creoles, totally Creole descent, who get questioned even by other Creoles because of the assumption that all are highly mixed in appearance

---------- Post added 2010-06-09 at 01:42 ----------


All you have to do is study the history behind Louisianan creoles and you will know how and why they evolved into that distinct sub-group. In my opinion, Lousiana (before coming under the USA) was as close to a typical LatinAmerica as the US got. Anyway, under the Afram racialethnic label in the USA, I consider these to be distinctive regional sub-groups:

-Lousiana creoles
-SouthEastern Geechee/Gullah

the history there is interesting
prior to the mass migrations of Dominguen gens de couleur, the number and proportion of 'free people' and folks of mixed African descent was greatest in Virginia. Louisiana, N.O., was more similar to other deep south frontier outposts and the majority of 'free people' were of predominantly African descent, more likely to have earned/purchased freedom than granted through family relations
the gens de couleur from St Domingue were really, really white :lol: many faaaar removed from any identifiably 'black' family, many were slave holders, they reinforced/created a system that was more caste then simply race+class... including dark gens de couleur, excluding many Louisianan free people, even more so exclusive of AA/Yankee free people no matter how light, and disdainful of mixing with whites other than Creoles

that flood of folks from St D, of all colors and statuses, seriously reshaped southern LA
had an impact on other states too
caused a mini panic in 'mine' :mad:

---------- Post added 2010-06-09 at 02:01 ----------


I chatted with this guy before just to see what his agenda was and it wasn't exactly "LA Creole" specific. The guy is/was basically a multiculturalist/mulattocentric/mixedraced movmnt type. If you go to his site, FrenchCreoles, he has tons of pictures on "Anglo Aframs" who have no connection to French Creoles. The main factor with these "Anglo Aframs" that he posted were that they were what he thought of as mixed looking. This is how I came to find out his agenda, which wasn't about preserving "Creole" history.

I know who you're talking about without even clicking the link

there are other Creoles, black/AA/simply Creole identified, that find him full of it

it is total b.s. how he cherry picks 'mulato' types from around the diaspora
can't speak for other groups, but its annoying as hell for him to 'claim' light AAs, who are of AA heritage and black identity and have nothing to do with Creoles other than being of obvious mixed descent
does he even ever highlight the dark, 'black-looking notables of totally Creole ancestry? :lol: there are some well known ones

he's no different from some of those multi/bi extremists who essentially replace a racial system they claim to chafe under with a racial hierarchy that just as stupidly ignores culture, heritage and the right to self-identify
it is bad enough when they 'claim' Vanessa Williams, Lena Horne, WEB DuBois, Michael Ealy, Jada Pinikett as part of 'their group' and swear their black identities and acknowledgment of AA heritage was only by force from jealous 'unmixed' types :| (wont even get into the non-AA and mixed parentage folks who id as black)
but I've seen folks like Angela Bassett and Bill Cosby labeled as such :whoco: and there the credibility ends :lol:
can't just select the AAs that have the look, attractiveness, talent, achievement, fame that are desirable and use that to determine who gets aligned with your group and leave only those who fulfill negative stereotypes under the 'black' label

why don't they ever claim Ice-T?
or the crazy dude from Bone, Thug who was running across roof tops in Cleveland?
even, rough ass Charlie Baltimore?
or anyone else known for being butt ugly, stupid, lazy, 'ghetto', triflin', loud, ig'nant... who are obviously waaaaaay more mixed than some brown AA who just happens to be notable for positive reasons :lol:

[nomar6]

there are some for whom class (pedigree) and race (mixed/light) are of greatest concern so when they 'marry out' they tend to go for certain Latin Americans, light/upwardly mobile AAs... and others of mixed (direct or ancestral) descent... but often no one white (definitely not Cajun) or 'black'





Shiela E mom is Creole to.


Typically the pool or the 38-inch RCA TV in the family room are the home's hubs. Juanita makes everyone feel at home with homemade margaritas and a tantalizing mix of Mexican and Creole cuisine, reflective of her New Orleans roots. Sometimes the focus shifts to music and everyone migrates to the garage to jam. "It's always fun, and my wife, like Lucy [Ball], has no talent but always wants to get in the act," Escovedo laughs (he later admits that she's a good singer). "It's not like it used to be; now the kids all want to be paid," he quips. "But it's really great to see that they're all successful. Sheila has her production company and is currently touring with Ringo Starr; Peter Michael is musical director for The Wayne Brady Show; and Juan is working on his own material."





Kristina Debarge daughter of one of the Debarge singers and Mexican mom. She is like 20% black?

http://www.awesomedjproductions.com/images/singles/goodbyedebarge.jpg


http://blog.mlive.com/entertainment_impact/2009/07/large_090729-kristinia-debarge.jpg

http://mrpoplife.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ede41cc8833011572408805970b-320wi


her dad was probably no more than 40% black?
http://www.vashtie.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/55767657_27a812acd9.jpg

[Magneto]

Kristina Debarge daughter of one of the Debarge singers and Mexican mom. She is like 20% black?

http://www.awesomedjproductions.com/images/singles/goodbyedebarge.jpg


http://blog.mlive.com/entertainment_impact/2009/07/large_090729-kristinia-debarge.jpg

http://mrpoplife.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ede41cc8833011572408805970b-320wi


her dad was probably no more than 40% black?
http://www.vashtie.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/55767657_27a812acd9.jpg

The Debarges dont have any LA Creole roots

---------- Post added 2010-06-09 at 08:45 ----------




I know who you're talking about without even clicking the link

there are other Creoles, black/AA/simply Creole identified, that find him full of it

it is total b.s. how he cherry picks 'mulato' types from around the diaspora
can't speak for other groups, but its annoying as hell for him to 'claim' light AAs, who are of AA heritage and black identity and have nothing to do with Creoles other than being of obvious mixed descent
does he even ever highlight the dark, 'black-looking notables of totally Creole ancestry? :lol: there are some well known ones

he's no different from some of those multi/bi extremists who essentially replace a racial system they claim to chafe under with a racial hierarchy that just as stupidly ignores culture, heritage and the right to self-identify
it is bad enough when they 'claim' Vanessa Williams, Lena Horne, WEB DuBois, Michael Ealy, Jada Pinikett as part of 'their group' and swear their black identities and acknowledgment of AA heritage was only by force from jealous 'unmixed' types :| (wont even get into the non-AA and mixed parentage folks who id as black)
but I've seen folks like Angela Bassett and Bill Cosby labeled as such :whoco: and there the credibility ends :lol:
can't just select the AAs that have the look, attractiveness, talent, achievement, fame that are desirable and use that to determine who gets aligned with your group and leave only those who fulfill negative stereotypes under the 'black' label



That's the whole agenda of alot of these mixed raced movt types because if people that they overlap with are seen as black and identify as black, it will get in the way of they themselves are seen.

[nomar6]

The Debarges dont have any LA Creole roots

Aren't they from Louisiana?

[Lalo]

Why wouldn't Creoles intermarry with Cajuns?
I've heard of Cajuns claiming Creole heritage. :confused:

[Suum Cuique]

Black Like I Thought I Was (the article is written by a "Creole" Afram about a black identified "Creole" who found out he didn't have any African ancestry



http://www.laweekly.com/2003-10-09/calendar/black-like-i-thought-i-was

This is the author of that article. His results were surprising to say the least.
http://is.chinohills.groupfusion.net/modules/groups/homepagefiles/announcement/81183-89129913.JPG

[jonboyclem]

^Homedude looks more Indian than anything else.

[Suum Cuique]

^Homedude looks more Indian than anything else.

Dot or feather?

I dunno, he looks fairly black in this pic.
http://www.noprogram.org/ABCNews/abc_wayne_joseph_031121_nh.jpg

[blank slate]

There's no way to know with 100% certainty what Wayne Joseph's real ethnic background is, but I wouldn't take any results from DNA Print too seriously. Particularly since the test was taken back in 2002 or 2003.

[Johnny Blaze]

Looks more mestizoish in the second pic

[Suum Cuique]

Looks more mestizoish in the second pic
Hardly.

[Magneto]

Aren't they from Louisiana?

Nah, Detroit. There mother is black (english speaking) and their father is white (French)

[Neon Gumbo]

Why wouldn't Creoles intermarry with Cajuns?
I've heard of Cajuns claiming Creole heritage. :confused:

Taboo - A strong social prohibition (or ban) relating to any area of human activity or social custom that is sacred and forbidden based on moral judgment and sometimes even religious beliefs.