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Thread: Dodecad Ancestry Project1367 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    Is South Asian here a composite component or has ANI shifted into Atlantic-Baltic and Caucasus-Gedrosia here?
    In my opinion, ANI has split itself across Atlantic-Baltic, Caucasus-Gedrosia and South Asian components here. There are various examples of those components being elevated where we'd expect them to be (i.e. South Asian in West Asian Iranic speakers).

    Again, I will reiterate the World9 calculator is simply a modified Eurasia7 and only gives useful information for (potentially) admixed New World individuals.

    There is absolutely no improvement in Eurasian resolution here and users are posting their results for the sake of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humata View Post
    In my opinion, ANI has split itself across Atlantic-Baltic, Caucasus-Gedrosia and South Asian components here. There are various examples of those components being elevated where we'd expect them to be (i.e. South Asian in West Asian Iranic speakers).

    Again, I will reiterate the World9 calculator is simply a modified Eurasia7 and only gives useful information for (potentially) admixed New World individuals.

    There is absolutely no improvement in Eurasian resolution here and users are posting their results for the sake of it.
    This makes sense. Gedrosia is also shifted towards South Asia more than the other West Eurasian components. I imagine it is in the common West Eurasian ancestry shifting South Asian towards the West Eurasian components and shifting Gedrosia away from the other West Eurasian components.

    So I guess it is safe to say the Indo-Iranians(not the proto Indo-Iranians but the ones who formed as a result of Andronovo and BMAC/IVC contacts) were probably mostly Caucasus-Gedrosia with a significant Atlantic-Baltic component.

    Is there a reason why Atlantic-Baltic is higher in Eastern Iranian speakers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    So I guess it is safe to say the Indo-Iranians(not the proto Indo-Iranians but the ones who formed as a result of Andronovo and BMAC/IVC contacts) were probably mostly Caucasus-Gedrosia with a significant Atlantic-Baltic component.
    Caucasus-Gedrosia and Atlantic-Baltic at the very least, probably some of the South Asian-like component we're seeing in Iranians and Kurds as well.

    Is there a reason why Atlantic-Baltic is higher in Eastern Iranian speakers?
    Scythian back-migration from Europe (Saka paradraya) or Turkic gene-flow. Note that several Siberian groups (e.g. Selkups) have an unusually high percentage of "European" autosomal components (26.7% in World9).

    The "European" components in certain Siberian groups may be a relic of the prehistoric migration corridor between East Europe and Siberia, demonstrated by both ancient DNA and anthropological studies;

    Ancient Mitochondrial DNA From Pre-historic Southeastern Europe: The Presence of East Eurasian Haplogroups Provides Evidence of Interactions with South Siberians Across the Central Asian Steppe Belt - R. Newton

    While most of our samples possessed mtDNA haplotypes that can be linked to European and Near Eastern populations, three Neolithic and all three Bronze Age individuals belonged to mtDNA haplogroup C, which is common in East Eurasian, particularly South Siberian, populations but exceedingly rare in Europe. Phylogeographic network analysis revealed that our samples are located at or near the ancestral node for haplogroup C and that derived lineages branching from the Neolithic samples were present in Bronze Age Kurgans. In light of the numerous examples of mtDNA admixture that can be found in both Europe and Siberia, it appears that the NPR and South Siberia are located at opposite ends of a genetic continuum established at some point prior to the Neolithic. This migration corridor may have been established during the Last Glacial Maximum due to extensive glaciation in northern Eurasia and a consequent aridization of western Asia. This implies the demographic history for the European gene pool is more complex than previously considered and also has significant implications regarding the origin of Kurgan populations.
    On the Origin of Mongoloid Component in the Mitochondrial Gene Pool of Slavs - B Malyarchuk, M Perkova, M Derenko

    Concerning the population of Eastern Europe, it should be noted that the forest zone of Eastern Europe was the area of intense population admixture. It seems likely, that formation of the complex of Mongoloid traits happened not later than in Upper Paleolithic. For this reason, it is suggested that East Siberian populations could have much time for migration to Eastern Europe. The number of such migrations still remains unclear, since in the northwest of Eastern Europe Mongoloid component is detected 10000–8000 years ago; in Dnepr–Donetsk tribes, 7000–6000 years ago, and on the territory of Ivanovo oblast (Sakhtysh), 6000–5000 years ago.

    Biosphere origin and evolution - N Dobretsov

    A high proportion (60-70%) of typical west Eurasian mtDNA lineages among Hants, Mansi and Selkups living in the west Siberia does not fit to the opposite west east frequency gradient of European lineages. These populations are characterized by high frequency of U4 and low frequency of haplogroup W...
    To reiterate; I am postulating that some of the North European-like component currently observed in such strength in Central Asia may be attributed to ancient Turkic speakers.
    Last edited by Humata; 2011-12-20 at 20:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasishta View Post
    My results for world9 (as per the individual results tab of the main spreadsheet);
    • South Asian - 56.6%
    • Caucasus_Gedrosia - 36%
    • Atlantic_Baltic - 3.3%
    • Amerindian - 1.3%
    • Siberian - 1.1%
    • Southern - 1.1%
    • Australasian - 0.7%

    Fairly underwhelming and awfully similar to eurasia7 (of course, this run is basically eurasia7 along with American and Oceanian populations). We can only extrapolate ADMIXTURE to this extent.
    The same results for me read as:

    South Asian - 55.9%
    Caucasus-Gedrosia - 36.6%
    Atlantic-Baltic - 3.3%
    Amerindian - 0.4%
    Siberian - 1.3%
    Southern - 1.5%
    Australasian - 0.9%

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    My World9 results are super on point:

    0.00% Amerindian
    0.39% East_Asian
    73.75% African
    18.41% Atlantic_Baltic
    0.23% Australasian
    0.00% Siberian
    2.67% Caucasus_Gedrosia
    4.52% Southern
    0.03% South_Asian

    Dad's:

    0.16% Amerindian
    1.08% East_Asian
    75.04% African
    16.49% Atlantic_Baltic
    0.08% Australasian
    0.00% Siberian
    1.75% Caucasus_Gedrosia
    4.96% Southern
    0.44% South_Asian
    Last edited by ari87; 2011-12-21 at 01:28.

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    Notes: South Indian Ancestry, DIY runs

    World_9 Results:
    0.45% Amerindian
    2.18% East_Asian
    0.00% African
    5.69% Atlantic_Baltic
    0.90% Australasian
    1.14% Siberian
    33.94% Caucasus_Gedrosia
    2.69% Southern
    53.01% South_Asian

    K12a Results:
    0.47% Mediterranean
    1.53% Far_Asian
    0.80% Siberian
    7.20% North_European
    46.10% South_Asian
    0.00% West_African
    6.64% Caucasus
    34.08% Gedrosia
    0.00% East_African
    1.28% Southwest_Asian
    1.58% Southeast_Asian
    0.33% Northwest_African

    K12a Dodecad Oracle:
    [1,] "Kshatriya_M" "5.4956"
    [2,] "Indian_D" "6.0506"
    [3,] "Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu_M" "6.3015"
    [4,] "Tharus_M" "7.3937"
    [5,] "Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh_M" "7.4933"
    [6,] "Cochin_Jews" "8.1206"
    [7,] "Lambadi_M" "8.2907"
    [8,] "Bengali_M" "9.1364"
    [9,] "Kurmi_M" "9.4917"
    [10,] "INS25" "9.5205"

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    My boyfriend's:

    ----------------------------
    FINAL ADMIXTURE PROPORTIONS:
    ----------------------------

    7.82% Amerindian
    0.02% East_Asian
    6.28% African
    51.41% Atlantic_Baltic
    1.23% Australasian
    0.35% Siberian
    14.58% Caucasus_Gedrosia
    16.98% Southern
    1.34% South_Asian


    K12a:

    ----------------------------
    FINAL ADMIXTURE PROPORTIONS:
    ----------------------------

    26.47% Mediterranean
    1.42% Far_Asian
    3.05% Siberian
    33.86% North_European
    2.37% South_Asian
    5.29% West_African
    13.47% Caucasus
    5.55% Gedrosia
    1.03% East_African
    4.29% Southwest_Asian
    1.03% Southeast_Asian
    2.18% Northwest_African


    His Amerindian component is slightly inflated (about roughly 0.6%) though it is almost precise =)



    Paternal uncle's:

    ----------------------------
    FINAL ADMIXTURE PROPORTIONS:
    ----------------------------

    1.52% Amerindian
    0.00% East_Asian
    12.00% African
    46.58% Atlantic_Baltic
    0.40% Australasian
    0.08% Siberian
    14.29% Caucasus_Gedrosia
    23.58% Southern
    1.57% South_Asian

    K12a

    ----------------------------
    FINAL ADMIXTURE PROPORTIONS:
    ----------------------------

    29.30% Mediterranean
    0.02% Far_Asian
    0.67% Siberian
    25.47% North_European
    1.30% South_Asian
    10.10% West_African
    13.51% Caucasus
    5.90% Gedrosia
    1.56% East_African
    7.82% Southwest_Asian
    0.00% Southeast_Asian
    4.34% Northwest_African
    Last edited by Esther; 2011-12-21 at 01:16.

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    Razib Khan has a new blog entry up: Out of Africa to Out of Arabia

    I have never really thought much about the theory, to be honest. After reading the piece, one of the first things that came to mind were the relatively weak Dodecad "African" values observed among the minority Near East populations. Not that this necessarily supports "Out of Arabia," since there are numerous other questions one must resolve. But, out of curiosity, I wondered what rates of mtDNA L were found among those same Near East minority populations. The frequencies are provided below:

    Assyrians 0% *
    Azerbaijan Jews 0% **
    Druze 2% (L2) **
    Georgian Jews 0% **
    Irani Jews 0% **
    Iraqi Jews 0% **
    Samaritans 0% ***
    Uzbekistan Jews 0% **

    * FTDNA, 23andMe, and SMGF
    ** Behar et al.
    *** Shen et al.

    See also:
    Mother Tongue and Y Chromosomes
    Peter Forster, Colin Renfrew
    "[T]he female lineages, as indicated by mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) types, do not reflect the survivor language but represent more ancient settlement."
    Science 9 September 2011: Vol. 333 no. 6048 pp. 1390-1391
    DOI: 10.1126/science.1205331

    As far as aDNA data goes, this is what we know. Data from Jean Manco's site. Sources also listed on Jean's site. See here: Ancient Western Eurasian DNA

    mtDNA haplogroups may not be current.

    Code:
    Neolithic			
    1	T2b	Syria	PPNB
    2	H	Syria	PPNB
    3	T2b	Syria	PPNB
    4	T2b	Syria	PPNB
    5	H5	Syria	PPNB
    6	K?	Syria	PPNB
    7	R?	Syria	PPNB
    8	L2a1	Syria	PPNB
    9	L2a1	Syria	PPNB
    10	H	Syria	PPNB
    11	K	Syria	PPNB
    12	K	Syria	PPNB
    13	C1	Syria	PPNB
    14	H3a?	Turkey	Halaf
    15	H3a?	Turkey	Halaf
    
    Copper Age / Chalcolithic			
    16	H3a	Turkey	Ubaid
    17	U3a	Israel	
    18	H?	Israel	
    19	H6	Israel	
    20	H?	Israel
    	
    Bronze			
    21	H14a	Syria	Sumerian
    22	U4	Syria	Sumerian
    23	U4a2b	Syria	Sumerian
    24	R	Syria	Sumerian
    25	J1a1	Syria	Sumerian
    26	L2a1	Syria	Sumerian
    27	K	Syria	Amorite?

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    1.53% Amerindian
    1.26% South_Asian
    0.35% East_Asian
    0.07% Australasian
    0.01% Siberian
    5.43% Caucasus_Gedrosia
    8.71% Southern
    33.85% Atlantic_Baltic
    48.80% African

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    world9 (diy)

    me:
    Code:
     0.03%  Amerindian          
     1.03%  East_Asian          
     0.04%  African             
    32.94%  Atlantic_Baltic     
     0.28%  Australasian        
     2.41%  Siberian            
    35.32%  Caucasus_Gedrosia   
    27.51%  Southern            
     0.43%  South_Asian
    mom:
    Code:
     0.01%  Amerindian          
     2.29%  East_Asian          
     0.13%  African             
    15.65%  Atlantic_Baltic     
     0.47%  Australasian        
     2.68%  Siberian            
    44.23%  Caucasus_Gedrosia   
    32.61%  Southern            
     1.92%  South_Asian

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