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    Quote Originally Posted by Maryam View Post
    no one has ever done DNA test on Huis living in southeast china, like fujian and zhejiang, if they do, i suspect they will be finding alot of semitic Y-DNA haplogroup J, which is prevelant among arabs, rather than eurasian haplogroups, because many of them have geneologies which name specific arab ancestors.

    some of them are also descended from central asian, like the Ding family in fujian, but most of them are from arab.

    in yunnan some sources say they are descended from arabs, and others say central asians who moved in during the yuan dynasty, do you have any studies to post on them?
    As for Yunnanese Huis,I think they are descendants of central Asian sodiers brought by the Mongols to Yunnan,some of them are descendants of local converts
    http://s6.zetaboards.com/man/topic/8694689/1/
    Yegar 1966: The Panthay (Chinese Muslims) of Burma and Yunnan

    p. 74: in Yunnan Panthays bought children from poor Chinese in order to bring them up as Muslims
    p. 75: Panthay rebellion in 1856 was reinforced by Shan and Kachin on the Burmese border; Panthays killed men and took women and children with themselves
    p. 76: Chinese supported bandit groups which controlled some territories within the Panthay sultanate; these bandits hampered trade; Panthays managed that Burmese and Shan protected merchants on dangerous routes, but there were no ties to the Burmese king, who was allied with the Chinese emperor
    p. 80: Chinese army takes Dali, MUslims flee to Burma and partly become robbers
    pp. 82-83: Panthay demography in 1966:
    - small communities in and around the main towns of Burma:
    -- scattered along the Salween river: mainly Tanyan near Lashio/Shan Hills
    -- Kengtung
    -- Yangon
    -- Mandalay
    -- Mogok
    -- Taunggyi
    -- Bhamo
    - Yunnan: Momien/Theng-ye-chow/Teng-chung/Tengyeche/Tengchong

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    some sources say that Dongxiang with certain Han surnames are descended from han people, and those with hui surname from hui, etc. do you have any dna test study on dongxiang people?

    Encyclopaedia of the South-east Asian ethnography

    a British civil officer wrote this book : "Burma past and present" in 1878, in it, he said that the panthay hui were descended from arabs.

    Burma past and present

    there are also people descended from uyghurs, in taoyuan in Hunan, and the CCP allowed them to register as uyghur nationality, although i think that is like BS. the CCP newspapers claim they are muslim and practice uyghur culture, but i think they are also BSing big time in claiming that.

    apparently they kept genealogies, which recorded their ancestors were uyghurs who came with Hala Bashi during the ming dynasty, and they assimilated into the Han and Hui populations. And most have the surname Jian. they do things like other normal han people do, like worship at graves and genealogies, which makes the CCP's claim that they are uyghur and muslim look fake.

    some of them married into hui people, and were only muslim because of their hui ancestors. most noticably they don't speak a single word of uyghur.....

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    http://s6.zetaboards.com/man/topic/8684820/1/
    C-M130:
    - Bonan/Jishishan: 2,8% (B04)
    - Bonan/Baoan: 10,0% (Y08)
    - Han/Tianshui: 15,7% (Y08)
    - Han/Gansu: 20,0% (Z08)
    - Hui: 21,7% (B04)
    - Hui/Linxia: 3,1% (Y08)
    - Salar/Jishishan: 6,4% (B04)
    - Santa/Jishishan: 0% (B04)
    - Santa/Dongxiang: 7,1% (Y08)
    - Yugur/Sunan: 14,3% (Y08)
    - Yugur/western: 21,2% (Z08)
    - Yugur/eastern: 4,4% (Z08)

    DE-YAP:
    - Bonan/Jishishan: 5,6% (B04)
    - Bonan: 0% (Y08)
    - Han/Tianshui: 12,9% (Y08)
    - Han/Gansu: 6,7% (Z08)
    - Hui: 0% (B04)
    - Hui/linxia: 9,2% (Y08)
    - Salar/Jishishan: 6,4% (B04)
    - Santa/Jishishan: 6,5% (B04)
    - Santa: 11,4% (Y08)
    - Yugur/Sunan: 1,8% (Y08)
    - Yugur/western: 19,2% (Z08)
    - Yugur/eastern: 2,2% (Z08)

    M89+,M9-:
    - Bonan/Jishishan: 16,7% (B04), half of it M172 according to W03
    - Bonan: 25,8%=12,9%(hg J)+12,9% (Y08)
    - Han/Tianshui: 5,8%=2,9%(hg J)+2,9% (Y08)
    - Han/Gansu: 10% hg J (Z08)
    - Hui/Linxia: 41,6%=10,8%(hg J)+30,8% (Y08)
    - Hui/Liaoning Shenyang: 21,7% (B04), mostly M172 according to W03
    - Salar/Jishishan: 10,6% (B04), all M172 according to W03
    - Santa/Jishishhan: 15,2% (B04), mostly M172 according to W03
    - Santa: 17,2%=9,6%(hg J)+8,6% (Y08)
    - Yugur/Sunan: 21,4%=8,9%(hg J)+12,5% (Y08)
    - Yugur/western: 7,7%=1,9%(hg J)+5,8% (Z08)
    - Yugur/eastern: 17,7%=4,4%(hgJ)+13,3% (Z08)

    M9+,LY1-,LLY22g- => M122, M134 etc not being tested(!):
    - Bonan/Baoan: 21,4% (Y08)
    - Han/Tianshui: 54,3% (Y08)
    - Hui/Linxia: 20,0% (Y08)
    - Santa/Dongxiang: 12,9% (Y08)
    - Yugur/Sunan: 48,2% (Y08)

    M9+,M175-,M45-:
    - Bonan/Jishishan: 11,1% (B04)
    - Hui/Liaoning Shenyang: 13,0% (B04)
    - Salar/Jishishan: 0% (B04)
    - Santa/Jishishan: 10,9% (B04)

    M9+,M146-,M175-,M45-:
    - Han/Gansu: 6,7% (Z08)
    - Monguor: 2/7 M214+,M175-,M231- (Sen06/S09)
    - Yugur/western: 11,5% (Z08)
    - Yugur/eastern: 15,6% (Z08)

    M146:
    - Bonan/Baoan: 0% (Y08)
    - Han/Tianshui: 0% (Y08)
    - Han/Gansu: 0% (Z08)
    - Hui/Linxia: 3,1% (Y08)
    - Santa/Dongxiang: 0% (Y08)
    - Yugur/Sunan: 0% (Y08)
    - eastern Yugur: 0% (Z08)
    - western Yugur: 0% (Z08)

    M175+,M122-:
    - Bonan/Jishishan: 5,6% (B04), * and M95 according to W03
    - Han/Gansu: 13,4%=6,7%(MSY2)+6,7% (Z08)
    - Hui/Liaoning Shenyang: 10,5% (B04), M95, M119 and * according to W03
    - Monguor: 1/7 M175+,M119-,M268-,M122- (Sen06/S09)
    - Salar/Jishishan: 20,9% (B04), M95 plus a few % M119 according to W03
    - Santa/Jishishan: 6,5% (B04), * and M95 according to W03
    - Yugur/western: 1,9% (Z08)
    - Yugur/eastern: 13,3%=11,1%(MSY2)+2,2% (Z08)

    M122:
    - Bonan/Jishishan: 27,7% (B04)
    - Bonan/Baoan: 8,6% (LY1)+? (Y08)
    - Han/Gansu: 36,7% (Z08)
    - Han/Tianshui: 4,3% (LY1)+? (Y08)
    - Hui/Linxia: 6,1% (LY1)+? (Y08)
    - Hui/Liaoning Shenyang: 15,6% (B04)
    - Monguor: 3/7 M134 (Sen06/S09)
    - Salar/Jishishan: 30,2% (B04)
    - Santa/Jishishan: 19,6% (B04)
    - Santa/Dongxiang: 14,3% (LY1)+? (Y08)
    - Yugur/Sunan: 7,1% (LY1)+? (Y08)
    - Yugur/western: 34,6% (Z08)
    - Yugur/eastern: 31,1% (Z08)

    M45+ (92R7+ in Yang's study),M17- (SRY1532- in Yang's study):
    - Bonan/Jishishan: 5,6% (B04)
    - Bonan/Baoan: 21,4% (Y08)
    - Han/Tianshui: 4,3%
    - Han/Gansu: 0% (Z08)
    - Hui/Linxia: 12,3% (Y08)
    - Hui/Liaoning Shenyang: 0% (B04)
    - Salar/Jishishan: 4,2% (B04)
    - Santa/Dongxiang: 17,1% (Y08)
    - Santa/Jishishan: 9,2% (B04)
    - Yugur/Sunan: 7,1% (Y08)
    - Yugur/western: 1,9% (Z08)
    - Yugur/eastern: 13,3% (Z08)

    M17 (SRY1532 in Yang's study):
    - Bonan/Jishishan: 25,0% (B04)
    - Bonan/Baoan: 12,9% (Y08)
    - Han/Tianshui: 2,9% (Y08)
    - Han/Gansu: 6,7% (Z08)
    - Hui/Liaoning Shenyang: 17,4% (B04)
    - Hui/Linxia: 4,6% (Y08)
    - Monguor: 1/7 (Sen06/S09)
    - Salar/Jishishan: 21,3% (B04)
    - Santa/Jishishan: 32,1% (B04)
    - Santa/Dongxiang: 20,0% (Y08)
    - Yugur/western: 1,9% (Z08)
    - Yugur/eastern: 2,2% (Z08)
    - Yugur/Sunan: 0% (Y08)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    (B04) Black et al. 2004: Molecular evidence for the temporal stratification of CHinese genetic diversity
    (Sen06/S09) Sengupta et al. 2006: Polarity and Temporality of High-Resolution Y-Chromosome Distributions in India Identify Both Indigenous and Exogenous Expansions and Reveal Minor Genetic Influence of Central Asian Pastoralists AND
    Shi Wentao et al. 2009: A worldwide survey of human male demographic history based on Y-SNP and Y-STR data from the HGDP-CEPH populations
    (W03) Wang et al. 2003: The origins and genetic structure of three co-resident Chinese Muslim populations: the Salar, Bo’an and Dongxiang
    (Y08) Yang Yajun et al. 2008: Genetic analysis of Y-chromosomes in five ethnic groups from Northwest China
    (Z08) Zhou Ruixia et al. 2008: Origin and evolution of two Yugur sub-clans in Northwest China: a case study in paternal genetic landscape

    ---------- Post added 2010-11-25 at 19:04 ----------

    The C-M130 is more common in Hans than Dongxiangs and Bonans,as we know C-M130 is high in Mongols,so that means Dongxiangs and Bonans just spoke Mongolic languages,they are not of Mongol origin
    The DE-YAP is also more common in Hans than the muslim groups of Hexi, as we know the DE-YAP is more common in Tibetans
    The Hans of Gansu also had some west Eurasian Y-DNA,maybe those people are descendants of anciet Kushans,Scythains,Sogdinas and other pre-islam central Asian people
    The Dongxiangs,Bonans and Salars are more similar ti Huis than Turkic muslims,such as Salars were important part of their Qinghai army,they loyal to Ma family warlords
    Salar general Han Youwen's letter to Ma Chengxiang,Han Youwen was a former general of Ma Bufang's army,and lead the battle of Beitashan(北塔山),later he surrender to CCP,he and his army became part of PLA
    http://zhgl718.blog.163.com/blog/sta...0109235493890/
    云章兄:

    托真主洪福,士宏女士及公子抵迪探 杨母。时值开斋节,杨老太携士宏、 儿光临寒舍,带来兄长问候,惊喜万 分,愉快异常。

    遥想民国三十八年秋末,南梁拱别, 自东西;蹉跎岁月,斗转星移,转眼 四十春秋。时光如电,你我都由不惑 而达耄耋。喜闻兄长依然身心健康, 履轻捷,食宿有序,令人羡慕喜悦不 。

    提笔忘怀,心潮起伏。忆抗战狼烟熄 ,率师西进;马不停踢,人不下鞍; 行夜宿,百日抵疆;抗外来侵略,保 中华疆土;盛事空前,功勋卓著;后 师表,日月同辉。

    后来,虽兄弟东西,各有千秋。然思 之情,久久不忘。隔海相望,不能鞠 言欢,同寺礼拜,使人心绪不宁,实 为憾事也。

    四十冬夏,匆匆如烟。红山依存,绿 成荫;老满城残墙尽除,新楼房交错 立。如今迪化老城东西南北门痕迹难 辩,东从欧亚机场,西至妖魔山下, 从南梁山坡,北至小地窝铺机场,方 百里,道路四通八达,商店琳琅满目 。昔日荒凉戈壁,今日欣欣向荣。兄 若有方便之时,当可信步漫游。弟当 随左右,详为介绍。

    弟仍每日五次礼拜,跪敬真主。饭量 减,精神爽健。若能兄弟相见,握手 欢,干净归天而心满意足矣!

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    弟云卿

    一九八八年六月十日

    (编者注:马呈祥字云章,韩有文字 卿)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maryam View Post
    some sources say that Dongxiang with certain Han surnames are descended from han people, and those with hui surname from hui, etc. do you have any dna test study on dongxiang people?

    Encyclopaedia of the South-east Asian ethnography

    a British civil officer wrote this book : "Burma past and present" in 1878, in it, he said that the panthay hui were descended from arabs.

    Burma past and present

    there are also people descended from uyghurs, in taoyuan in Hunan, and the CCP allowed them to register as uyghur nationality, although i think that is like BS. the CCP newspapers claim they are muslim and practice uyghur culture, but i think they are also BSing big time in claiming that.

    apparently they kept genealogies, which recorded their ancestors were uyghurs who came with Hala Bashi during the ming dynasty, and they assimilated into the Han and Hui populations. And most have the surname Jian. they do things like other normal han people do, like worship at graves and genealogies, which makes the CCP's claim that they are uyghur and muslim look fake.

    some of them married into hui people, and were only muslim because of their hui ancestors. most noticably they don't speak a single word of uyghur.....
    Chinese muslims like to claim they are descendants of arabs,I don't believe their claim,I think it's more reasonable they are descendants of Central asians and local converts(Hans,Tanguts and Mongols)
    Some Huis even are descendants of Tibetans
    http://blog.nxnet.cn/user1/fanqianfe...61921220.shtml
    “那是乾隆年间,花寺太爷马来迟来 了卡力岗大山,在这里的藏族群众中 讲伊斯兰文化,久而久之,这里的上 万名藏族同胞开始皈依伊斯兰教,逐 融入回族。”到今天,卡力岗大山里 活着3万多藏回同胞,他们中很多人 藏服、说藏语,但信仰着伊斯兰教, 份证上明确地写着“回族”的民族成 份
    “过去,先人跟着马彪骑兵参加抗日 硬仗都是卡力岗回族给打下来的。如 ,广州的拉面馆子有一半是卡力岗回 族开的,西藏挖金矿的,也都是卡力 的回族。其他人,很少能有这般吃苦 !”马生林说这些话时显得很自豪。

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    Are Tibetan Muslims or the Kachee classified as Hui or just Tibetan in China?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsong2006 View Post
    Are Tibetan Muslims or the Kachee classified as Hui or just Tibetan in China?
    Those Tibetan muslims consider themselves Huis,don't consider themselves Tibetans.In fact,many Huis worked and do bussiness in Tibet are Tibetan muslims
    The native Tibetan muslims in Lhasa are different,they are of Kashmiri origin,it's another case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sahaliyan View Post
    Those Tibetan muslims consider themselves Huis,don't consider themselves Tibetans.In fact,many Huis worked and do bussiness in Tibet are Tibetan muslims
    The native Tibetan muslims in Lhasa are different,they are of Kashmiri origin,it's another case.
    Yeah I'm actually talking about those Kashmiri ones called Kachee. Are they considered Tibetan or Hui?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsong2006 View Post
    Yeah I'm actually talking about those Kashmiri ones called Kachee. Are they considered Tibetan or Hui?
    I don't know

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    there was also a Salar officer Han Yimu, in Ma Bufang's army, who led an insurgency, along with other hui officers like Ma Hushan 馬虎山, Ma Yuanxiang 馬元祥, and Ma Liang 馬良.

    They were supplied by parachutes and planes from Taiwan sent by the KMT during the 1950's and each of them lead various bands of thousands of guerilla fighters in qinghai, and gansu until they were defeated.

    ma yuanxiang was killied in action, Ma Hushan caught and executed, Han Yimu caught and executed in 1958, and i don't know what happened to Ma Liang.

    and do you know what Han Yimu's name is in chinese and any information about these insurgents?

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    and there are pictures taken by christian missionaries at the harvard yenching library, they took alot of pictures of hui, salar, and tibetans and others in the 1910s-1930-s

    one of the salars photographed looked caucasian, but the others all looked asian. They also photographed a quran said to date to several hundred years ago, which was originally from samarkand, until the salars migrated to china.

    in turkmenistan, the origin of the salars, turkmen look either caucasian, asian, or mixed.

    also they took photos of General Ma Anliang's tomb and sufi shrines

    Rev. Claude L. Pickens, Jr. Collection on Muslims in China

    type in "salar koran" to see pictures of the koran, or just "salar" to see salar pictures

    Search here for photos taken by the missionaries. type in salar, moslem, or tibetan

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