I do and yep, BIG difference between East and West Mediterranean people. I didn't include North Italians or Tuscans though.Do you have a similar chart for the Italian and Greek participants for comparison?
There is a Catalan in Dienekes' project who shows no Berber ancestry. I should try to figure out who he is and ask him to send his results to Polako for comparison. I suspect he may be a Catalan from the north, from like Gerona, which had heavy French immigration in the late 16th and early 17th century when the two nations were at peace and Catalunya was rebuilding its industry and demogaphics after a long decline in the late Middle Ages that was caused from severe epidemics and the losing out to the Venitians in the Mediterranean trade after previously smacking Genoa and Florence around, as well as taking over Naples and Siciliy.
I suspect, and I remember Argiedude made a similar argument based on Haplogroups, that Berber ancestry goes from a West to East decline, with Portuguese, and I suspect Spaniards in Huelva, Extremadura, Salamanca (regions bordering Portugal) having similar amounts instead of a north to south decline that would make sense from what we know from history. Galicians, if we base it off of me, and my parents (both from Ourense), and a Galician from Lugo, don't have similar Berber ancesty as Portuguese. I forget what Kadu's results were but it would be interesting since he's from Minho, which borders Galicia.Collectively as Iberians, they are comparatively less Arabian influenced than even Northern Italians and therefore much of Italy, Greece and likely parts of the Balkans. There is a difference it seems between North African admixture in the Portuguese and the Spaniards. The Spaniards show a degree of it which is similiar to Southern Italians, Cypriots, Ashkenazi Jews, though not as great as Sicillians and Sephardic Jews. The Portuguese appear to have even greater North African admixture than the latter two and therefore out of all European populations properly sampled, they so far show the greatest amount.
I also suspect that the relatively "heavy" Berber ancestry in western Iberia is not completely from the Moorish invasion but a long history of migration, with the Moorish impact playing more of a role with regards to North African influence in other parts of Spain. I have studies mentioned before of a older North African influence affecting southern and northern Portugal.
I can't agree with the Arabian influence being significant among the Moors. They appear just to be a small elite in the early years and their migration to Iberia would have been minimal during the 8th century and afterwards because of Cordoba's political independence.Its important to note though that detecting North African admixture is difficult. Many North Africans who ventured into Iberia were largely composed of both a Berber and Arabian background. Rather than admixture, it could also just be geneflow.
I would suspect they are people near the Basque lands, north eastern Castilla-Leon or La Rioja. I suspect folks from La Rioja may be classified as Castillians since it's a region that was ruled by Castile since the early 11th century after defeating Navarra.Heres a bar chart based on Dienekes participants results. Apparently in there are Catalans, Castilllians, Galician(s), not sure if there is Asturians and ofcourse there are Portuguese. Those two who show no SW Asian affinity, i wonder which group they might belong to, but i do have suspicions.
Last edited by Papa Anodyne; 2011-02-06 at 05:05.
Sicilians have more North African and SW Asian than Greeks, while Greeks have slightly more West Asian and Northern European. Their Southern European component is about the same. And all of these non-European components far outweigh the amount Iberians have it looks like (maybe not the North African).
Yet for some reason unknown to me many love to point out how foreign to Europe we (Iberians) supposedly are.
Last edited by Pinkpanda93; 2011-02-06 at 05:03.
As for Kadu's results, on the Dodecad project, he is less north african than me but more southwest asian.
I remember that goofy study (goofy with regards to Jewish ancestry but not Moorish) and I suspect that many Moriscos were sent to North Western Spain to break up their community. We know for a fact they were sent to other regions but only Castile is mentioned but Castile could mean the Kingdom of Castile, and not just the region, which would include Galicia and Asturias. Although I've never seen any indication it was carried out in Galicia or Asturias. All I have seen is Madrid asking Galician authorities if they could take some Moriscos and the Galicians pointing out the region was too poor to take any. But only regions under the Kingdom of Castile would be able to take them in considering any region that was was under the Kingom of Aragon had special rights and often could say fuck you to Madrid and the Basques had special privileges since the Middle Ages; I forgot the reason. I think it may have been to keep them loyal to Castile after they were attached after some war instead of rebelling in favor of the Kingdom of Navarra, which was a more natural fit.
I need to check his North African score. I wonder if it's closer to me (2.2%) than to you. I'm pretty average in every way for a Spaniard in Dienekes' project except for a relatively high West African admixture at 1.2% compared to the rest. This explains my ability at basketball and my distrust of "the man." Also, my very large penis.As for Kadu's results, on the Dodecad project, he is less north african than me but more southwest asian.
Last edited by Papa Anodyne; 2011-02-06 at 05:33.
Here's the study. I was talking about figure 4 but i made a mistake between north african and sephardic jewish, so nevermind what i said.
lolI need to check his North African score. I wonder if it's closer to me (2.2%) than to you. I'm pretty average in every way for a Spaniard in Dienekes' project except for a relatively high West African admixture at 1.2% compared to the rest. This explains my ability at basketball and my distrust of "the man." Also, my very large penis.
I checked and Kadu is in between the two of us.