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Thread: New branches of R1a1a1 - post all updates here plz2235 days old

  1. #781
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    Rare Collector's Item Otto Prohaska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namu View Post
    I should have double-checked on that, thanks.

    I went and directly read the actual Y chromosome file I get from 23andme. Unlike the other chromosomes, it's choke-full of "no call". 23andme's marketing says they verify that genomes are 99.9% complete at a minimum or else they ask for a new sample. That figure must be an overall average because on the Y alone, I get this:
    2144 lines, of which 946 are "--" (symbol for no call). That's almost half of the DNA data that is missing. Data for which I paid.

    This is unacceptable. I'll contact them and demand an explanation.

    In any case, you're right, there is nothing to this result until I can get proper data.
    23andme is notorious for no-calls on the Y.

    My own results from there have a 57% no call rate on the Y, using the V3 chip.

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    Semitic Duwa (2015-02-08)

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    I believe you misunderstood me. R1a-Z284+ is proto-Germanic and Scandinavian, R1a-Z93+ is proto-Indo-Iranian, and R1a-Z282+ is proto-Germano-Balto-Slavic.
    Hugely simplifying, yes. But that doesn't apply to every case. I have also doubts about Z284 being involved in forming a proto-Germanic. Rather L664, if anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    But Z93+ emerged in the proto-Indo-Iranians, that's the point. Obviously it spread to many non Aryan peoples later on, but it was originally a marker among the proto-Indo-Iranians.
    I guess we need more ancient samples but I think that some Z93* expanded along R1b with Yamna culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Can't have been Satem, you mean Centum.
    Why? If satem proto-Indo-Iranian was spread by Z93, satem proto-balto-slavic by Z283 (both clades have common ancestor at Z645 level) then some kind of satem langage existed even earlier. So I see CWC as satem-speaking.

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    So...what do we have is:
    1) R1a1-M459 from Yuzhnyy Oleni Ostrov, Karelia, Russia, Mesolithic. 5500 - 5000 BCE

    2) R1a-M417(xZ282xL664xZ645) from Corded Ware site at Esperstedt, Eneolithic/Early Copper Age, 2473 - 2348 cal BCE

    3)R1a-Z280 from Late Bronze Age Germany, site at Halberstadt, Lusatian Culture(of Urnfield horizon), 1113 -1021 cal BCE

    Nothing from Yamna, quite a surprise but I never thought that Yamna was predominantly R1a.

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    According to the R1a-M458 facebook page ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/R1aM...group_activity), there appears to be a new branch under M458.

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    Otto Prohaska (2015-03-04)

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    Quote Originally Posted by muso View Post
    According to the R1a-M458 facebook page ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/R1aM...group_activity), there appears to be a new branch under M458.
    Actually, this branch is upstream of M458. So it's a new macro-branch, basically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artek View Post
    Actually, this branch is upstream of M458. So it's a new macro-branch, basically.
    Yes, you are correct artek. It will be interesting to see how common this branch is, or how it will affect the estimated age of M458 and other branches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muso View Post
    Yes, you are correct artek. It will be interesting to see how common this branch is, or how it will affect the estimated age of M458 and other branches.
    I think it won't affect the age of M458 but it will just put the whole macro-branch slightly to the past. (just like Y2395 is obviously older than Z284)

    PF6xxx+ M458- branches were found among Sardinians sequenced by Paolo Francalacci. Due to the rarity of such branches and historical records, I think that it may be Vandallic in Sardinian context. But of course, high-resolution aDNA would be great to confirm it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artek View Post
    I think it won't affect the age of M458 but it will just put the whole macro-branch slightly to the past. (just like Y2395 is obviously older than Z284)

    PF6xxx+ M458- branches were found among Sardinians sequenced by Paolo Francalacci. Due to the rarity of such branches and historical records, I think that it may be Vandallic in Sardinian context. But of course, high-resolution aDNA would be great to confirm it.
    That is my thought as well. From what I have read the Vandals may have been multi-ethnic. My two closest matches through my y-dna trace their recent ancestry to the area of Silesia, or just across the border. I would find the Vandallic connection most interesting,as I am sure others would as well. It would certainly give an indication as to when R1a-L1029 was in parts of Poland such as Silesia - earlier then what many would estimate.

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    Seems like now Assyrians also have one R1a* individual (310205), he's R1a-L145+ but R1a-M459-, which makes him R1a* per latest ISOGG tree:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ct?iframe=ysnp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Some map of L260 (and subclades) samples:



    Quote Originally Posted by YFull
    R-L260 (...) formed 4500 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp
    Estimates based on a FTDNA project data:



    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2017-02-14 at 15:34.

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