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Thread: white men and black women in slave days1189 days old

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    Default white men and black women in slave days

    As mention in the blog post what is written is based on Eugene Genovese's scholarly work. He's a respected historian on slavery in America history.

    So do you think rape of Black women by Southern Whites was the norm? Not that I care what you think. Genovese is an authority on the subject, you are not.

    Note: This post comes mainly from “Roll, Jordan, Roll” by Eugene Genovese, a Brooklyn-born Marxist historian. He is a white man who argues that it was not as bad as black people think:

    When you think of white men and black women back in slave days in America the thing that springs to mind is the rape of black slave women by white slavemasters. It is an image so striking and terrible that it is hard to get it out of your mind. In fact, the Mammy stereotype was pushed by the South to counteract it.

    It is a fact of history: we have accounts of just such rapes. But while true, it was not as common as you might think. During the civil war when the Union army got to the large estates in the low country of Georgia and South Carolina the northerners were surprised by how unmixed the blacks were.

    In our time something like 75% of blacks are part white, but at the end of the civil war fewer than 25% were. Most of the mixing of the races took place after the civil war, after the slaves were freed.

    The government used to count mulattoes separately, those who were part black, part white. So we know where they lived and where they came from. They mostly did not come from the big slave estates in the deep South but from the towns and cities of the upper South, in states like Arkansas and Tennessee. As it turns out, these were the places where there was an oversupply of both white men and black women.

    And just as we have accounts of rapes and of black children of white slavemasters, so we also have accounts of the opposite, of slavemasters who did not permit such things – not just according to the slavemasters themselves, but even according to their slaves after they were freed and had no reason to lie about it.

    In fact, we even have the diary of one slavemaster, a 44-year-old virgin apparently, who complains about the lack of sex in his life – even though he owned slave women. When he thought about where to get it, he did not think about his black slave women but the white prostitutes in town.

    Some slave women, called fancy girls, mostly light-skinned, were sold to work in the household with the understanding that they would provide special services.

    While some white men did openly live with black women, most hid what was going on as something shameful. As late as the 1970s, more than a hundred years after the civil war, we have court records where it is assumed that having sex with a black woman is so shameful for a white man that none would admit to it unless it was true.

    In most cases slavemasters who had sex with black slave women were just using them, but it was not always that simple. From court records we know that sometimes it led to divorce and contested wills. While most white men did nothing to try to free their black children and black lovers, some did.
    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/09...in-slave-days/

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    If the white males were anything like the white males that I know today (not attracted to black women), then no.

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    I never believed that White men would willingly have sex with Black women when there was plenty of White women around. I suspect that when it happened it was done under one of two circumstances, either a poor White employed by the slavemaster did it because he wasn't wealthy enough to marry a White woman (then again, as the author of the article notes there were White prostitutes, presumably within everyone's price range) or it was done deliberately to insert two things into the prevailing Black consciousness- a loss of their own racial identity (or rather an obscuring of it) through the infusion of White genes and a renewed dominance acheived through raping the Black females (few things are more emasculating, for a community, than seeing your own women get raped and being powerless to prevent it).

    Then again, tastes have changed radically- look at what 18th century people found attractive (in clothes, women, music etc) and what 20th/21st century people found/find attractive and it may not be a massive jump to the conclusion that Black women, still exotic back then, were desired. Doubtful though.

    Then again, as Anodyne notes, none of us are experts.

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    even though there probably was some consensual sexual encounters between slaves and their masters i doubt most of it was..even if it wasn't forced on them i still was in the sense that they are slaves and are in no position to deny them sex. i mean who knows what would happen to them if they protested..so i think alot of these cases of consensual sex were more on the lines of coersion, even if the master wasn't necessarily aware of it, his position of power has sway..thats why bosses can get into so much hot water for sleeping with employees.

    and just because 75% of blacks are mixed today doesnt mean that a large percentage of them aren't descended from those same mixed bloods from back before the civil war, although it is true that it isn't as taboo today as it was back then to sleep with a black woman..

    ---------- Post added 2011-04-22 at 01:51 ----------

    shit wasnt like the roots in most cases, but it wasn't nice either..
    Last edited by elone; 2011-04-22 at 03:20.
    one step closer to world domination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elone View Post
    sigh...i don't understand why a white person can't be attracted to someone of a different race...the main reason why white men don't date black women more is most are intimidated by them..black females on average are much more "agressive" or should i say less submissive than white women.. but even still that didnt stop alot of them nowadays from hooking up with black chicks so that stereotype is only a half truth..



    even though there probably was some consensual sexual encounters between slaves and their masters i doubt most of it was..even if it wasn't forced on them i still was in the sense that they are slaves and are in no position to deny them sex. i mean who knows what would happen to them if they protested..so i think alot of these cases of consensual sex were more on the lines of coersion, even if the master wasn't necessarily aware of it, his position of power has sway..thats why bosses can get into so much hot water for sleeping with employees.

    and just because 75% of blacks are mixed today doesnt mean that a large percentage of them aren't descended from those same mixed bloods from back before the civil war, although it is true that it isn't as taboo today as it was back then to sleep with a black woman..

    ---------- Post added 2011-04-22 at 01:51 ----------

    shit wasnt like the roots in most cases, but it wasn't nice either..
    The vast majority of the white guys I've met were repulsed by the idea of hooking up with a black woman unless they're extremely light skinned/ have white looking features. Maybe it's different around where you live but the opinions seem to be consistent with every place I've visited..

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdou3 View Post
    If the white males were anything like the white males that I know today (not attracted to black women), then no.
    There's an old saying among Southern White Men that "You are not a man, until you split the black oak". Meaning that alot White men had sexual relations with Black women because it was no strings casual sex. My grandmother told me stories of White Men sexually harassing her in the Deep South during the Jim Crow era.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonboyclem View Post
    There's an old saying among Southern White Men that "You are not a man, until you split the black oak". Meaning that alot White men had sexual relations with Black women because it was no strings casual sex. My grandmother told me stories of White Men sexually harassing her in the Deep South during the Jim Crow era.
    Then I suppose they were a whole lot different than the typical modern day yankee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdou3 View Post
    Then I suppose they were a whole lot different than the typical modern day yankee.
    Out in the LA area. I've seen more Black Women/White Men couples than Black Men with White Women. And alot of the Black women I've seen were dark skinned and wore thier natural hair. You can't generalize for everywhere in the US.

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    Yeah a lot of that did happen in o'le good USA

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    Quote Originally Posted by jr1 View Post
    I never believed that White men would willingly have sex with Black women when there was plenty of White women around. I suspect that when it happened it was done under one of two circumstances, either a poor White employed by the slavemaster did it because he wasn't wealthy enough to marry a White woman (then again, as the author of the article notes there were White prostitutes, presumably within everyone's price range) or it was done deliberately to insert two things into the prevailing Black consciousness- a loss of their own racial identity (or rather an obscuring of it) through the infusion of White genes and a renewed dominance acheived through raping the Black females (few things are more emasculating, for a community, than seeing your own women get raped and being powerless to prevent it).

    Then again, tastes have changed radically- look at what 18th century people found attractive (in clothes, women, music etc) and what 20th/21st century people found/find attractive and it may not be a massive jump to the conclusion that Black women, still exotic back then, were desired. Doubtful though.

    Then again, as Anodyne notes, none of us are experts.
    GARBAGE

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