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Thread: Asiatic looking Jews.1203 days old

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    Default Asiatic looking Jews.

    I'm sure we've all heard of the Khazar theory (http://www.khazaria.com), although genetic testing has seemed to refute it. Ashekanzic Jews cluster with MENA Jews over any Central Asian population. I find it interesting though that some Jews have incredibly strong Asiatic appearances.


    What do you think, are these Jews the descendants of Khazars? What accounts for their appearance?
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    Last edited by Prince Chupacabra; 2011-08-08 at 05:39.

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    Maybe they have an Asian parent? At least the one in the middle appears as if he did.

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    Jews often look very Asiatic indeed, just not in the sense you're getting at.

    I see what you mean in the case of Joseph Gordon Levitt but not the other two. Landis has squinty eyes but note the bulging lower lids typical of MENA populations (I have them as well). Gottfried has eye folds but they're found at the outer corners of his eyes. This isn't particularly uncommon either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Chupacabra
    I find it interesting though that some Jews have incredibly strong Asiatic appearances.
    Or pseudo-Asiatic. That look sometimes appears even amongst Berbers, Arabs, and others...
    So I think it doesn't necessarily originate from Khazars.

    Is there any proof how 'Asiatic' Khazars themselves were phenotypically in the first place,
    to make such assumptions?

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    Right.

    Features like slanted eyes are found from South Africa to West Africa to MENA to East Asia to Siberia to Alask-anadia to South American indigenies.

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-08 at 01:06 ----------

    Also Europe like the Middle East has seen a plethora of foriegn incursions since humans first wiped Neanderthal out that at the beginnings of time; and so, the Khazar (where were they, again, on the map, I recall - could be mistaken - a Central European Empire influenced from the East?) Empire wouldn't even be the only historic Eastern influence Europe has ever seen -- there were the Mongols, Huns, Turks, Arabs, Kurgan Bronze age culture (in prehistoric times), Natufian-influenced Neolithic culture, Phoenicians, etc.

    But the study also found strong genetic ties to non-Jewish groups, with the closest genetic neighbours on the European side being Italians(and Greeks), and on the Middle Eastern side the Druze, Bedouin and Palestinians.

    The study provides a genetic basis for confirming or debunking theories of Jewish origin and history, says Ostrer. For example, one theory proposes that Ashkenazi Jews (of eastern European origin) are largely descended from Khazars in eastern Europe who converted to Judaism, but the genetic closeness between Ashkenazi Jews and other non-European Jews does not support this idea.

    Genetic studies:

    But the study also found strong genetic ties to non-Jewish groups, with the closest genetic neighbours on the European side being Italians(and Greeks), and on the Middle Eastern side the Druze, Bedouin and Palestinians.

    The study provides a genetic basis for confirming or debunking theories of Jewish origin and history, says Ostrer. For example, one theory proposes that Ashkenazi Jews (of eastern European origin) are largely descended from Khazars in eastern Europe who converted to Judaism, but the genetic closeness between Ashkenazi Jews and other non-European Jews does not support this idea.

    The study also highlights how genetics can reflect history, Ostrer says, including evidence of the dispersal of Jewish populations throughout the Middle East and Europe. "We really see the events of the Jewish diaspora in the genomes of Jewish people. Using a computer simulation, the researchers estimate that the genetic split between Middle Eastern and European Jews occurred about 100–150 generations ago, or 2,500 years ago — when Jewish communities are thought to have become established in Persia and Babylon. They also trace a high level of genetic mixing between Ashkenazi Jews and nearby non-Jews to more recent times , corresponding to a period between the beginning of the fifteen century and the start of the nineteenth century when the Jewish population in Europe swelled from about 50,000 to 5 million.
    - [source]

    One thing about the above bolded statement; it may not mean much if the non-European Middle Eastern Jewry tested also have Central Asian ancestry.

    My official stance on the whole Cohen modal haplotype as "Jewish DNA" thing -- is while I'm not sold on the bit it would seem to tie to gether a lot of people with actual Near Eastern ancestry, like these folks from Zimbabwe for instance:

    results are stunning. A group of genetic markers - a distinctive combination of letter changes and repeats, dubbed the Cohen Modal Haplotype - is seen in about 10% of the general Jewish population
    The geneticists found that the proportion of Lemba men carrying the genetic signature of Cohanim was about 10 percent, similar to the percentage found among Jewish men around the world and much higher than found in the general population. Moreover, the Cohen Modal Haplotype appeared in over 50% of one particular group of Lemba-the Buba clan.
    [source]



    Professor Mathiva, senior Buba Clan leader.

    [link]

    Jon Cohen Meets the Buba:

    He referred me to a Buba Lemba in Johannesburg, and after a few more phone calls, I had secured an invitation from Peter Mbelangwa to visit him at home. Whereas 56 percent of Lembas from the Buba clan have 17 of the 17 markers that constitute the Cohen modal haplotype , Goldstein found that I have only 16, making me a "one-step neighbor."
    [source]

    While the Lemba have all this Cohen modal haplotype, Ethiopian (accepted as authentic) Falasha (Jews) right next door to the MENA have none.
    Last edited by EclectYummination; 2011-08-08 at 07:14.

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    All in all, I'd have to say even were they to find Abraham or Jacob's exact mutation, people shouldn't get carried away with the whole genetics thing when there are cultural and religious factors to consider and when even during Biblical times people mixing were prevalent, and when even if you decided to make Israel (Jacob) or Abraham (Abram) the patriarch, you'd have closely genetically related cousin off-shoots like the line of Ishmael (whom some take to be patriarch of Arabs).

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