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Thread: Where was wheeled transport invented?2849 days old

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    Default Where was wheeled transport invented?

    Does anybody know when people first stated to produce wheeled vehicles pulled by animals?

    I ask this question as the answer to it could be a hint about the location of the pra-Indo-European Urheimat:

    The latest datable invention with a PIE name is the wheel, invented around 3300 BC.
    Jared Diamond on the Indo-European Expansion

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    i heard it was invented much earlier than what is currently being said 5000+ years ago.. prob as early in the neolithic.
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    [QUOTE=Surreal;524795]i heard it was invented much earlier than what is currently being said 5000+ years ago..

    But where?

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    Where was wheeled transport invented?
    Most probably in Poland around 3500 BC:
    The earliest well-dated depiction of a wheeled vehicle (here a wagon—four wheels, two axles), is on the Bronocice pot, a ca. 3500–3350 BCE clay pot excavated in a Funnelbeaker culture settlement in southern Poland.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronocice_pot
    http://www.ma.krakow.pl/x/zdjecie/1553
    http://bronocice.dzialoszyce.info/waza.htm

    In Poland megalithic Funnelbeaker culture was replaced by Indo-European Corded Ware culture which originated in central and southern Poland around 3000 BC as a result of some migrations from the Yamna and Tripolye cultures and mixing with Funnelbeaker:

    Corded Ware ceramic forms in single graves develop earlier in Poland than in western and southern Central Europe.[5] The earliest radiocarbon dates for Corded Ware come from Kujavia and Małopolska in central and southern Poland and point to the period around 3000 BC.
    Wheeled vehicles were used in Corded Ware culture:
    There are very few discovered settlements, which led to the traditional view of this culture as exclusively nomadic pastoralists. However this view was modified, as some evidence of sedentary farming emerged. Traces of Emmer wheat, bread wheat and barley were found at a Corded Ware site at Bronicice in south-east Poland. Wheeled vehicles (presumably drawn by oxen) are in evidence, a continuation from the Funnelbeaker culture era.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    It is believed that wheeled vehicles together with Indo-European vocabulary pertaining to wheel and wagon were disseminated by Corded Ware culture which originated in Poland.

    Slavic languages, which originated in Vistula area, where first wheeled vehicles were used, have the most complete, archaic and closest to PIE vocabulary pertaining to wheel and wagon (kolo/kulko etc.)
    Few years ago R1a1 hg. was discovered in ancient Corded Ware skeletons 2600 BC.
    Highest diversity and frequency of R1a1 hg. was measured in Poland and expansion of that hg. from Poland correlates well with Corded Ware expansion. (See the map in the upper right corner, note that it is now generally believed that timing on that map should be corrected and divided by 2):
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...l#figure-title

    from:
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2009194a.html

    What do you think Wojewoda, can we link wheel and wagon with R1a1 and Slavs?

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    It's odd how such an apparently simple invention wasn't known by the Meso-Americans (who were quite developed). Well, it also took very long for algebra to develop in Europe too. Just the mere concept of digits was unknown for a long time, and this is something we take for granted since childhood.

    I wonder whether Indo-Europeans have invented the wheel by themselves or whether they took it over from Mesopotamian cultures. Was it independent from each other? How widely was the wheel known in our in 4,000 BC around Central Europe ? How big was the area that stretched it and how fast did knowledge of the invention spread.
    "Political correctness is the (...) revenge of the (...) intolerant, (...) dunce upon all the liveliness in this world. It is no more than the (...) resort of minds (...) that, for them, a revival of Stalinism is preferable to the pain of a glimpse of self-it's the last sigh of the beast that Nietzsche identified as ressentiment."

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    Proto-Indo-European speakers of the Late Tripolye culture
    as the inventors of wheeled vehicles:
    Linguistic and archaeological considerations


    Asko Parpola
    University of Helsinki

    The very earliest presently known evidence for wheeled vehicles comes (in the form of
    wheeled animal-shaped cups and house models) from the Tripolye culture (phases B2 & early
    C1) (Gusev 1998; Burmeister 2004: 14f.). The slide-car pulled by oxen is widely assumed to
    have been the predecessor of wheeled vehicles, and it too is documented from the Tripolye
    culture (C1 and earlier, cf. Burmeister 2004: 21f.). The Tripolye culture is located in the middle
    of the earliest vehicle finds, in the forest-steppe with big trees needed for solid wheels yet with
    plains more trafficable than the forested central and NW Europe
    Valentin Dergachev (2002, 2007) has recently suggested that during Tripolye B1, the
    pastoralists of the Pontic steppes attacked Tripolye settlements on a vast scale. The number of
    arrowheads found in Tripolye settlements rises phenomenally, and previously unprotected
    settlements become fortified. Philip L. Kohl (2004, 2007: 23-54) calls attention to the subsequent
    transformation of the Tripolye people from settled farmers to more mobile pastoralists (Kohl
    2004, 2007: 23-54). I suggest that the linguistic Indo-Europeanization of non-Indo-European
    speaking Europe started with Tripolye, the farming culture closest to the steppe pastoralists, who
    had long received their metal from Tripolye and been under its cultural influence.

    So it seems that non-Indo-European people of Tripolye/Cucuteni invented the wheel, their offspring of late Tripolye got Indo-Europeanized (still speaking late proto-Indo-European language) by people coming from the east. PIE's got the wheel and the late Tripolians went through cultural suicide and became late-PIEs. They then again forwarded this new hybrid culture (and language) to those who became the first Corded Warians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danielion View Post
    It's odd how such an apparently simple invention wasn't known by the Meso-Americans (who were quite developed). Well, it also took very long for algebra to develop in Europe too. Just the mere concept of digits was unknown for a long time, and this is something we take for granted since childhood.

    I wonder whether Indo-Europeans have invented the wheel by themselves or whether they took it over from Mesopotamian cultures. Was it independent from each other? How widely was the wheel known in our in 4,000 BC around Central Europe ? How big was the area that stretched it and how fast did knowledge of the invention spread.
    Meso Americans knew the wheel, but since they didn't had horses or any big domestic animal, it didn't had more use than for toys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedex View Post
    Meso Americans knew the wheel, but since they didn't had horses or any big domestic animal, it didn't had more use than for toys.
    I knew they had the wheel for non-transport purposes. It makes sense what you say. They did't have animals nearby suitable for domestication. In South America they have the llama and the alpaca though, but that's pretty much it. Also important to note is that Meso-Americans couldn't contact South American peoples so easily due to different climate and and more radically changing conditions.

    Interesting fact: the Meso-Americans had a writing system of their own. South Americans on the other hand hadn't (but they had domisticated animals like the ones I mentioned). They would have had if they contacted one another.
    Last edited by Danielion; 2011-09-27 at 23:14.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danielion View Post
    I knew they had the wheel for non-transport purposes. It makes sense what you say. They did't have animal nearby suitable for domestication. In South America they have the llama and the alpaca though, but that's pretty much it. Also important to note is that Meso-Americans couldn't contact South American peoples so easily due to different climate and and more radically changing conditions.

    Interesting fact: the Meso-Americans had a writing system of their own. South Americans on the other hand hadn't (but they had domisticated animals like the ones I mentioned). They would have had if they contacted one another.
    South Americans had the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipu

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastPole View Post
    Most probably in Poland around 3500 BC:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronocice_pot
    http://www.ma.krakow.pl/x/zdjecie/1553
    http://bronocice.dzialoszyce.info/waza.htm

    In Poland megalithic Funnelbeaker culture was replaced by Indo-European Corded Ware culture which originated in central and southern Poland around 3000 BC as a result of some migrations from the Yamna and Tripolye cultures and mixing with Funnelbeaker:



    Wheeled vehicles were used in Corded Ware culture:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    It is believed that wheeled vehicles together with Indo-European vocabulary pertaining to wheel and wagon were disseminated by Corded Ware culture which originated in Poland.

    Slavic languages, which originated in Vistula area, where first wheeled vehicles were used, have the most complete, archaic and closest to PIE vocabulary pertaining to wheel and wagon (kolo/kulko etc.)
    Few years ago R1a1 hg. was discovered in ancient Corded Ware skeletons 2600 BC.
    Highest diversity and frequency of R1a1 hg. was measured in Poland and expansion of that hg. from Poland correlates well with Corded Ware expansion. (See the map in the upper right corner, note that it is now generally believed that timing on that map should be corrected and divided by 2):
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...l#figure-title

    from:
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2009194a.html
    On the similar topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    MAJOR INNOVATIONS IN THE LATE NEOLITHIC
    By 3500–3000 B.C. plows, wagons, copper metallurgy, horse riding, wool production, and the milking of cows, goats, and sheep were present in central Europe. These innovations had repercussions in economy, warfare, transportation, gender relations, and beliefs. When and where these numerous innovations first appeared is the subject of archaeological debate. Dairying may have occurred as early as 5000 B.C. Milk can be consumed sour, fermented, or processed into a wide variety of products, such as cheese; these products evade the problem of lactose intolerance, as little lactose remains in them. Domesticated horses were present in central Europe around 4000 B.C., and by 3500–3000 B.C. people were riding them. Horse riding gave people the ability to cover long distances in a relatively short period of time. Moreover, the riding of horses influenced warfare; riders could plunder or attack communities far away from home.

    The first wagons appeared in central Europe around 3500 B.C. At Bronocice in Poland, a vessel incised with wagon motifs was found in a late Funnel Beaker culture pit, which was dated to 3400 B.C. (fig. 1). What was the function of the earliest oxen-pulled wagons? Besides their practical purposes, such as transporting harvested crops, fodder, and firewood, it has been suggested that they had ritual or religious purposes. The first use of simple plows occurred around 4000–3500 B.C., as is indicated by marks found under Funnel Beaker mounds. Even simple ox-drawn plows could turn the earth to a greater depth than could digging sticks, thereby enabling greater crop yields. The plow probably facilitated the expansion of farming from the zones of easily worked soils cultivated during the Early Neolithic. Plows and wagons also represented a laborsaving technology, making many tasks easier and faster. Copper mining and smelting were conducted in the Carpathians by 4500 B.C. The first copper artifacts were made by hammering smelted copper; later, the melted metal was cast into various forms, such as axes with shaft holes.
    "LATE NEOLITHIC/COPPER AGE CENTRAL EUROPE"

    Quote Originally Posted by EastPole View Post
    What do you think Wojewoda, can we link wheel and wagon with R1a1 and Slavs?
    I don't know, but one might think that there is a hint in Polish mythology:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Piast Kołodziej (Piast the Wheelwright) was a semi-legendary figure in prehistoric Poland (9th cent. AD), the founder of the Piast dynasty that would rule the future Kingdom of Poland.
    (...)
    Two theories explain the etymology of the word Piast. The first gives the root as piasta (hub in Polish), a reference to his profession. The second relates Piast to piastun (custodian or keeper). This could hint at Piast's initial position as a maior domus (majordomo), or a "steward of the house", in the court of another ruler, and the subsequent takeover of power by Piast. This would parallel the development of the early medieval Frankish dynasties, when the majordomos of the Merovingian kings gradually usurped political control.


    ---------- Post added 2011-09-28 at 12:38 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by EastPole View Post
    In Poland megalithic Funnelbeaker culture was replaced by Indo-European Corded Ware culture which originated in central and southern Poland around 3000 BC as a result of some migrations from the Yamna and Tripolye cultures and mixing with Funnelbeaker:
    By the way I wonder what was the dominant haplogroup mix of the people of the Funnelbeaker/TRB cuture:

    The earliest well-dated depiction of a wheeled vehicle (here a wagon—four wheels, two axles), is on the Bronocice pot, a ca. 3500–3350 BCE clay pot excavated in a Funnelbeaker culture settlement in southern Poland.


    ---------- Post added 2011-09-28 at 12:48 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hweinlant View Post
    Proto-Indo-European speakers of the Late Tripolye culture
    as the inventors of wheeled vehicles:
    Linguistic and archaeological considerations


    Asko Parpola
    University of Helsinki






    So it seems that non-Indo-European people of Tripolye/Cucuteni invented the wheel, their offspring of late Tripolye got Indo-Europeanized (still speaking late proto-Indo-European language) by people coming from the east. PIE's got the wheel and the late Tripolians went through cultural suicide and became late-PIEs. They then again forwarded this new hybrid culture (and language) to those who became the first Corded Warians.


    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    The Kurgan Hypothesis holds that this violent conquest would have taken place during the Third Wave of Kurgan expansion, between 3000-2800 BC.

    However, in the 1980s another theory, using more current archaeological evidence as support, appeared that contradicted Gimbutas' Kurgan Hypothesis. In 1989 Irish-American archaeologist J.P. Mallory published a groundbreaking book called In Search of the Indo-Europeans, in which he used the data from archaeological sites in the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture's region to demonstrate that part of the Kurgan culture (which he refers to by their more accepted name of Yamna culture) established settlements throughout the entire Cucuteni-Trypillian culture's area, and that these two cultures lived side-by-side for over 2000 years of their existence before the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture finally ended.[3] Artifacts from both cultures are found within each of their respective archaeological settlement sites, attesting to an open trade that took place between them.[3] Additionally, the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture sites during this entire period indicate that there were no weapons found, nor were there indications of violent killings of people that would be commonplace if there had been warfare or raiding taking place. The conclusion that Mallory reached was that there was a gradual transformation that took place, instead of a violent conquest.[3]
    What would be the dominant male haplogroups of the Cucuteni-Tripilians and Yamna people respectively?
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2011-09-28 at 11:48.

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