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Thread: What did the ancient Nubians look like?1099 days old

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    Here is what i found over the net, unforunately it was in wikipedia, but i remember reading egyptologist/nubiologist Yurco book titled "Black Pharaoh" and i remember this particular quote from his book.

    Various pharaohs of Nubian origin are held by some Egyptologists to have played an important part towards the area in different eras of Egyptian history, particularly the 12th Dynasty. These rulers handled matters in typical Egyptian fashion, reflecting the close cultural influences between the two regions.

    ...the XIIth Dynasty (1991–1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region. As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress and cops at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies. (Yurco 1989) [22]
    In the New Kingdom, Nubians and Egyptians were often so closely related that some scholars consider them virtually indistinguishable, as the two cultures melded and mixed together.

    It is an extremely difficult task to attempt to describe the Nubians during the course of Egypt's New Kingdom, because their presence appears to have virtually evaporated from the archaeological record. The result has been described as a wholesale Nubian assimilation into Egyptian society. This assimilation was so complete that it masked all Nubian ethnic identities insofar as archaeological remains are concerned beneath the impenetrable veneer of Egypt's material culture. In the Kushite Period, when Nubians ruled as Pharaohs in their own right, the material culture of Dynasty XXV (about 750–655 B.C.E.) was decidedly Egyptian in character. Nubia's entire landscape up to the region of the Third Cataract was dotted with temples indistinguishable in style and decoration from contemporary temples erected in Egypt. The same observation obtains for the smaller number of typically Egyptian tombs in which these elite Nubian princes were interred

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    Here is what i found from the Sudanese forum, the poster Ta seti is actually of Dinka extraction, he explains this very well, which makes sense. Also, you can cross reference his statements, and from what i personally read from various scholars what "Ta seti" stated is basically true.

    Various pharaohs of Nubian origin are held by some Egyptologists to have played an important part towards the area in different eras of Egyptian history, particularly the 12th Dynasty. These rulers handled matters in typical Egyptian fashion, reflecting the close cultural influences between the two regions.

    ...the XIIth Dynasty (1991–1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region. As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress and cops at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies. (Yurco 1989) [22]
    In the New Kingdom, Nubians and Egyptians were often so closely related that some scholars consider them virtually indistinguishable, as the two cultures melded and mixed together.

    It is an extremely difficult task to attempt to describe the Nubians during the course of Egypt's New Kingdom, because their presence appears to have virtually evaporated from the archaeological record. The result has been described as a wholesale Nubian assimilation into Egyptian society. This assimilation was so complete that it masked all Nubian ethnic identities insofar as archaeological remains are concerned beneath the impenetrable veneer of Egypt's material culture. In the Kushite Period, when Nubians ruled as Pharaohs in their own right, the material culture of Dynasty XXV (about 750–655 B.C.E.) was decidedly Egyptian in character. Nubia's entire landscape up to the region of the Third Cataract was dotted with temples indistinguishable in style and decoration from contemporary temples erected in Egypt. The same observation obtains for the smaller number of typically Egyptian tombs in which these elite Nubian princes were interred

    http://www.sudanforum.net/showthread.php?t=89291&page=5

    website above.

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    Now, some some scholars have pointed out that at times - the "Nubians" and the Kemetians (ancient Egyptians) had bitter wars with each other. People postulate that because of these wars - the belligerents must have been racially or ethnically separate, however, Upper and Lower Egypt often fought long bitter wars with each other - so would we assume that the same is true for the ancient Kemetians?

    The answer is NO! At times, both Lower and Upper Egypt fought each other -with the Heru followers representing the South, and the Set followers representing the people in Lower Egypt. Even later in the dyanstic period, the people of Herakleopolis in Middle Egypt (modern Beni Suef) fought the rebellious Wasetans (Thebans) for the throne of Kemet.

    During the 6th dyansty, Kemetians initiated trade with Yam - according to the inscriptions of Harkhuf. The inscription also suggests that the chief of Yam was engaged with a conflict with a Tjemah (Libyan), so Harkhuf extends his help to the chief of Yam, helping him smite the Tjeamh. This shows that, despite the unfriendly relations with some "Nubians" (like the Kushites) - Harkhuf assisted the people of Yam — the people of Yam later served as mercenaries in Kemetian armies because their skills in warfare was much valued. Yamites also introduced a much more stronger and durable bow to the Kemetian arsenal.

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    Here is another depictions of nubians from this website talking about nubian wrestlers, which was the second wall pictures, highlighting 5 men holding sticks, according to the article.

    The earliest portrayal of Nubian wrestlers is found on a wall painting from the tomb of Tyanen, an Egyptian officer (d. 1410 B.C.)(4) (See Figure 1). The picture shows five men marching together, with the last man carrying a standard which has two wrestlers on it. All but one of the men have Nubian physical characteristics. The contrast between the Nubian wrestlers’ girth and the trim Egyptian, is pronounced. Perhaps the Nubians were a detachment of wrestlers. The sticks that the first four Nubians brandished were used in a dueling competition. Depictions of stick fighting and wrestling competitions often appear together, implying that the same people participated in both events.(5) Certainly these combative sports were used for military training. While it is known that the Egyptians recruited Nubian archers into their army, perhaps this picture implies that Nubian wrestlers were also highly esteemed by the Egyptians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post






    ^^these are said to be Nubians also. Notice the Nubians in the front (far right) have a different profile from the ones in the back (far left)? The ones in the back have a similar look to those in the top picture from above.



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    ^^Nubian prisoners are modern day Nubas?
    Why the Nuba? Nuba people are no phenotypically different from sorrounding populations in southern Northern Sudan.

    "Nubians" is thrown around a lot, espeshially by eurocentric elements. Some of the people classified as "Nubians" are not nessarily the Nubians of ore, i.e. the people of Ta-Seti, Kerma, Kush, or Meroe, but other riverine populations from further south that may have been incorporated into Nubia or were simply southern Nubians with a much more stronger Nilotic affinity, I favor the later. Nubians from in between Aswan and Khartoum where sometimes portrayed with features similar to the Ancient Egyptians, but usually portayed with a darker skin tone; Nubians from further south usually had features that were more distinct, features that overlap with modern peoples from the region of Kordofanian in southern Northern Sudan.

    "Nubians" simply equates to "Nehesu" which implies "southerner", so any southerner is therefore "Nubian". The Medjay and Puntites were all "Nubians", yet these two groups lack significant Nilo-Saharan ancestry; the Medjay are ancestral to the modern day Beja in SE Egypt, Eastern Sudan, and Eritrea, and Punt was likely confined to what is now modern day Eastern Sudan and Eritrea. Then you had the people Yam for example, which was likely found in what is now Chad/Darfur, and other Nilo-Saharan entities south of Khartoum. The Nubians of Aswan-Khartoum were likely intermediate to these two groups, reason for why Pharonic Nubians are portrayed with both Nilo-Saharan and Afrasan features.
    Last edited by Doctoris Scientia; 2011-10-23 at 13:47.

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    This is a Nice Quote but again it may be confusing to some because there was never an entity called "Nubia" during Dynastic times. The people in the Southern Nile Valley from Aswan on down were called "NHSI" by the Egyptians and different Nehesi belonged to different Tribes(Wa-wat, Kush, Yam, etc).

    Many have said it before but I guess I will repeat it, the Nehesi people were a diverse group and had not fixed look. For some reason people want to associate one NHSI caricature with the modern invention of "Nubia"..

    However the Egyptians beautifully depicted the various phenotype of the Southern Nilotics below Aswan..

    Tomb of Huy..









    More

    [/QB][/QUOTE]

    Nubian Archers..



    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    A quote I ran across


    Egyptian art also depicts a regional distinction in Nubian physical types. During the Old and Middle Kingdoms, Egyptian rule extended to around the third cataract. Nubians are portrayed with skin of varying shades of darkness, distinctive dress and the facial features of an Egyptian. When the New Kingdom extended its rule south beyond the fourth cataract, there was a corresponding change in the artist’s portrayal of the Nubian. The Southerners are shown with distinct Negroid features—dark skin, everted lips, prognathous jaws and kinkyhair . All of the ancient Nubian wrestlers share a physiognomic similarity to the south-Nubian Negroes alluded to in the Egyptian sources

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    So did the Nubians speak a Nilo-Saharan language?

    Are the modern Nuba of Egypt the best representatives of the people of Kush?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chicken View Post
    So did the Nubians speak a Nilo-Saharan language?
    nubians were probably originally a nilo saharan people (related to the Meroitic culture) who absorbed indigenous afro-asiatic horners and egyptians in their expansion in the north of the nile.

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    They were not Negroes.

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    Nubians and the Kemetic people were of the same ethnic origin. The earliest known records of Kemetic (Egyptian) culture started in Nabta Playa, right outside of what was called Kush. Typical Kemites- Typical Kushites- Modern day peoples of Sudan and farther south or abroad(Nilotics, Nilo-Saharans, other related africans) are the true descendants

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