Why americans are obesesed with virginity ?

[Unome]

Marllon,

Do I have this correct? If a father values "virginity", and doesn't want his daughter having sex with losers and degenerates, instead wanting his daughter to have sex with "better" types of men and individuals, then he is a "misogynist" and "woman hater"? Is this what you are trying to say??

To me, it seems the opposite. A father who "couldn't careless" about who his daughter has sex with, is irresponsible, uninvolved, and no real "father" at all. Because what are fathers supposed to do, except, protect their children from harm and lies??

Are you advocating yourself, as a father, will allow any man to have sex with his daughter, including homeless people, beggars, thieves, criminals, etc.? Is this what you are saying?? And this means "loving" or protecting women's rights??

[amerinese]

I think Unome is making some good points about the reasoning behind traditional ways of thinking, however disagreeable they may be.

I'll offer a real world example. I have three biological half-siblings, all younger than me.

One is on the maternal side, pretty brainy and responsible, although an artist and fairly liberal in mindset, to the point of being naive in my opinion. As she grows older she seems to be growing wiser, which is good. She has been with one guy for ten years, they co-habitate and have been eternally engaged for many years. They have no children. Time I have spent with this guy, I would judge him as highly intelligent. I'm willing to claim him as a brother-in-law.

Next is my brother on the paternal side. He's working on finishing his Bachelors in Education, planning to be a teacher. He has no children and isn't currently dating anyone I'm aware of. His last girlfriend I never met.

Then there is my youngest sister on the paternal side who is 22 and currently knocked up by this slimy sociopathic loser. He's just the latest in a long line of losers she's been fucking. She got knocked up by a different felon last year but miscarried. Anyway I could go on about her but it would be a waste of effort. Suffice to say based on her choices I have already disowned and excommunicated her. I won't claim this demon spawn kid she's about to pop out as family, she isn't welcome in my house, I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. I foretold all of this to her a few years ago, when she started down this path, like 10 losers ago, what it would be if it came to fruition. Now it has. Soon she'll be in section 8 housing collecting a government check, and this dude will skip town or go back to prison, but there will always be another one just like him.

After my dad died, I assumed the patriarch role, tried to guide this dumb cunt, but it was too late, I have failed, so now I cut my losses.

[Unome]

It apparently is true that "loving" and "protecting" women means that they ought to be "sluts". A woman ought to have sex with several men, or women, otherwise you do not "value", "respect", or "love" women. Instead, you hate them.

If a woman has less than, 8 sexual partners (?), then you are a Misogynist and hate her, until she has sex with 8 different men???

[Marllon]

Marllon,

Do I have this correct? If a father values "virginity", and doesn't want his daughter having sex with losers and degenerates, instead wanting his daughter to have sex with "better" types of men and individuals, then he is a "misogynist" and "woman hater"? Is this what you are trying to say??

To me, it seems the opposite. A father who "couldn't careless" about who his daughter has sex with, is irresponsible, uninvolved, and no real "father" at all. Because what are fathers supposed to do, except, protect their children from harm and lies??

Are you advocating yourself, as a father, will allow any man to have sex with his daughter, including homeless people, beggars, thieves, criminals, etc.? Is this what you are saying?? And this means "loving" or protecting women's rights??

Why are you spinning this off into something else?

If I was a father, I wouldn't want my daughter to repress her sexual appetite, but rather explore it in a healthy and safe manner. I would remind her that she may have as much sex as she wishes, just as long as she protects herself and doesn't do it to fill an emotional void.

I never said anything about homeless people, beggars, thieves, criminals, degenerates, thugs, or any of that. I was talking about sexual relations within peers. Being a slut doesn't mean you'll copulate with anyone. In fact, most sluts are picky with who they fuck.

I am not talking about love here. Just casual sex, and if I were a father, I most definitely wouldn't object to my hypothetical daughter having casual sex as long as it's safe and not pressured onto her.

[Unome]

Why are you spinning this off into something else?

Because you were spinning this off into something else. I thought, if you did that then I can too?

You started talking about "misogyny" and "man-hating" as-if those had anything to do with Virginity? I had no idea that loving and respecting women meant they had to have sex with several different men, until you just told me. That is news to me. I didn't realize that hating or loving women had anything to do with how many men they've had sex with.

If I was a father, I wouldn't want my daughter to repress her sexual appetite, but rather explore it in a healthy and safe manner. I would remind her that she may have as much sex as she wishes, just as long as she protects herself and doesn't do it to fill an emotional void.

So you condone sex for pleasure. I understand that. I'd say a majority of the world population condones sex for pleasure. Here in the West, and you know this Marllon since you are a New Worlder like me, the predominant attitude is "have sex for pleasure, as long as you use 'protection' (condoms & birth-control) then it is good".

I also support sex for pleasure, sometimes. My point is that Westerners ought to think a little bit more about "sex for procreation" too. This seems forgotten, and devalued.

Sometimes either, sex for pleasure, or procreation, have advantages and disadvantages for different people.

I never said anything about homeless people, beggars, thieves, criminals, degenerates, thugs, or any of that. I was talking about sexual relations within peers. Being a slut doesn't mean you'll copulate with anyone. In fact, most sluts are picky with who they fuck.

I disagree with that.

The definition of a 'slut' is that she is not picky with whom she has sex with.

The definition of a 'prude' is that she is very picky with whom she has sex with.

These are opposite, don't pretend like one is the other.

I am not talking about love here. Just casual sex, and if I were a father, I most definitely wouldn't object to my hypothetical daughter having casual sex as long as it's safe and not pressured onto her.

So you promote sex for pleasure, for your hypothetical daughter, but why not sex for procreation?

Instead of teaching her about "safe sex" only, why not teach her about the importance of sex, why people have sex in the first place (children), and the risks involved even with sex for pleasure? Why not teach her to have sex with 'dominant' men, men with "superior" genes, and raise a family?

I mean, why pick one value (sluttish or prudish) over the other? That's what I want to know about you, Marllon. Why is "sluttish" good, but "prudish" bad?

Or are you saying something different??

Are you implying that I believe that "sluttish" is bad?? Because that is not my position here. Just because I explain how & why other people believe sluttishness is "bad" doesn't mean that I, personally, believe the same thing. You shouldn't make this mistake of presumption against me.

[Marllon]

Because you were spinning this off into something else. I thought, if you did that then I can too?

You started talking about "misogyny" and "man-hating" as-if those had anything to do with Virginity? I had no idea that loving and respecting women meant they had to have sex with several different men, until you just told me. That is news to me. I didn't realize that hating or loving women had anything to do with how many men they've had sex with.

I said that because you started going on a tangent about how gender equality is bullshit, which was quite unsettling for me to read.

I disagree with that.

The definition of a 'slut' is that she is not picky with whom she has sex with.

The definition of a 'prude' is that she is very picky with whom she has sex with.

These are opposite, don't pretend like one is the other.

To be honest, most people consider any promiscuous woman a slut, regardless of whether she is picky or not. Many sluts, especially attractive sluts, would only screw a person who they find attractive. I fail to see the harm in this!

So you promote sex for pleasure, for your hypothetical daughter, but why not sex for procreation?

Instead of teaching her about "safe sex" only, why not teach her about the importance of sex, why people have sex in the first place (children), and the risks involved even with sex for pleasure? Why not teach her to have sex with 'dominant' men, men with "superior" genes, and raise a family?

I mean, why pick one value (sluttish or prudish) over the other? That's what I want to know about you, Marllon. Why is "sluttish" good, but "prudish" bad?

Or are you saying something different??

Are you implying that I believe that "sluttish" is bad?? Because that is not my position here. Just because I explain how & why other people believe sluttishness is "bad" doesn't mean that I, personally, believe the same thing. You shouldn't make this mistake of presumption against me.

Okay, now this last bit you posted is simply a cocktail of presumptuousness and ignorance. I never claimed to be against prudence or sex for procreation. I simply think prudes are generally boring people, not bad.

Whether my hypothetical daughter adopts a prudent or salacious behavior, I won't care either way, just as long as she's safe. Neither "prudish" nor "sluttish" is bad or good.

Your posts have led me to believe that you were bestowing your own views onto this thread. In every post, you spoke in a manner as though you were expressing your own personal stance. You can't fault me for my presumption. I, on the other hand, never said anything for you to assume that I believe promiscuity is "good" and prudence is "bad". You came up with that on your own.

[Unome]

Okay, now this last bit you posted is simply a cocktail of presumptuousness and ignorance. I never claimed to be against prudence or sex for procreation. I simply think prudes are generally boring people, not bad.

Now that reeks of presumption and ignorance!

You seem pretty adherent to promoting sluttish or promiscuous behavior. While my position is clear. Both have their evolutionary benefits. For some women, being "slutish" increases their survival odds and social status improvement. For other women, being "prudish" increases their survival odds and social status improvement. Do you disagree with this?

Whether my hypothetical daughter adopts a prudent or salacious behavior, I won't care either way, just as long as she's safe. Neither "prudish" nor "sluttish" is bad or good.

Well, you now claim that prudish behavior is "boring".

Your posts have led me to believe that you were bestowing your own views onto this thread. In every post, you spoke in a manner as though you were expressing your own personal stance. You can't fault me for my presumption. I, on the other hand, never said anything for you to assume that I believe promiscuity is "good" and prudence is "bad". You came up with that on your own.

I believe many men are hypocrites about this. Because if you plan to have sex then your risk having children. If men have daughters, and actually raise them, rather than abandoning them, then these men tend to want to protect their daughters from 'shady' or 'bad' men. In other words, fathers disallow their daughters to have sex with just any douchebag.

This behavior is easy to witness and verify. The hypocrisy appears when a [i]young man[i] opines about sluttish or prudish behavior, without thinking of the future, that one day he could be a father with a daughter who is also sluttish. This is when the opinion generally backfires into hypocrisy. That's why I brought the point up.

If you are "okay" with your potential daughter becoming a total slut, and fucking tons of guys who you disapprove of and detest, then that is your prerogative. I wish you the best, in that regard. Or who knows, you maybe a type of man who has no interest in raising your own children. That depends on your character as a man.

[Zerdn]

What is your own outlook on the issue cher Gavroche?

[Marllon]

Now that reeks of presumption and ignorance!

You seem pretty adherent to promoting sluttish or promiscuous behavior. While my position is clear. Both have their evolutionary benefits. For some women, being "slutish" increases their survival odds and social status improvement. For other women, being "prudish" increases their survival odds and social status improvement. Do you disagree with this?

Well, you now claim that prudish behavior is "boring".

Unome, you are truly doing the most! Don't put my words in my mouth. I said that I personally find most prudes boring. I definitely said generally, which does not mean all. This is my personal opinion, not a fact. I don't generally relate to prudes, which makes it less likely for me to enjoy their company. Some people don't generally enjoy the company of loud people and others may not enjoy the company of quiet folks. These kinds of personal preferences do not make a person ignorant or presumptuous! SMDH.

I believe many men are hypocrites about this. Because if you plan to have sex then your risk having children. If men have daughters, and actually raise them, rather than abandoning them, then these men tend to want to protect their daughters from 'shady' or 'bad' men. In other words, fathers disallow their daughters to have sex with just any douchebag.

This behavior is easy to witness and verify. The hypocrisy appears when a [i]young man[i] opines about sluttish or prudish behavior, without thinking of the future, that one day he could be a father with a daughter who is also sluttish. This is when the opinion generally backfires into hypocrisy. That's why I brought the point up.

If you are "okay" with your potential daughter becoming a total slut, and fucking tons of guys who you disapprove of and detest, then that is your prerogative. I wish you the best, in that regard. Or who knows, you maybe a type of man who has no interest in raising your own children. That depends on your character as a man.

I don't detest people, and I don't generally sit on some high horse unlike some folks... If I had a daughter, I would be interested in the man or woman who she would be committing to, not the playthings she'd be fucking around with for mere fun. People need to live a little. We're going to have to agree to disagree. You're an ultraconservative and I'm an extreme liberal, so I don't see us reaching a consensus here. Also, your "judgment" of my character is completely preconceived and uncalled for. You don't know who I am or how I carry myself at all. I don't socialize in a pseudo-aristocratic community where people are judged by their sexual appetite, so so-called perceived "status" is irrelevant.

[Unome]

I don't condemn sluttish behavior, Marllon. Quite the contrary, I am a male like yourself, and enjoy the pleasure of women. But you ought to at least distinguish the difference of behavior in prudish or sluttish women, and their ensuing consequences to them. It's different for women.

Yes, let's agree to disagree on this one, we may not agree in-principle.