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It is called Germanic animal style. It was a fashion. IE origin for fashion sounds retarded. It is like saying: Capri pants have IE origin. Germanic animal style propably originates during migration period. To me it looks like that there is Central Asian (Huns et al) influence on Germanic animal style.
That's incorrect, most of IE derived cultures share a common pattern in their ornaments and art - in this particular case the intertwined circular ornament that usually incorporates a dragon or a snake. The origins of this particular ornament are older than the Germanics and similar patterns can be observed in Scythian, Slavic and Celtic art. And yes, you can speak of artistic patterns being unique and corresponding to the cultures that produced them.
That's incorrect, most of IE derived cultures share a common pattern in their ornaments and art - in this particular case the intertwined circular ornament that usually incorporates a dragon or a snake. The origins of this particular ornament are older than the Germanics and similar patterns can be observed in Scythian, Slavic and Celtic art. And yes, you can speak of artistic patterns being unique and corresponding to the cultures that produced them.
Germanic animal style has influence from steppe Turks, then again they were influenced by the Iranics and other steppe nomads. I'm not arguing against cultural elements in fashion, germanic style was born amongst the migration period germanic tribes, who were influenced by the Hun-fashion. It was however fashion and fashions spread. Many Roman innovations are good example. Calling some fashion as IE just sounds silly to me. Germanic style originates with the germanics, Scythian style with Scythians etc.
---------- Post added 2010-03-06 at 13:23 ----------
Reconstruction of sword found from Viking era female burial, Tavastia, Finland
The Valkyrja is inspired from a fascinating Finnish find from Suontaka, Tyrvnt, Tavastland; a woman's grave that apart from other rich goods included two swords. One was a bare blade with silver decorations (it might once have had organic hilt furniture that is now lost?) and a splendid sword with a hilt of bronze.
Obviously this woman was an important person high in the social hierarchy. One might wonder if she was a female warrior. This is the reason we wanted to name the sword after those mytholigical female warriors of Odin; the Valkyrjas.
It has nothing to do with Huns or their animal styles, but rather with ancient IE cult of snakes and dragons, with one of the earliest found being from 6th millenium bc, for example the Vinca bowl.
It has nothing to do with Huns or their animal styles, but rather with ancient IE cult of snakes and dragons, with one of the earliest found being from 6th millenium bc, for example the Vinca bowl.
Germanic animal style also Salin's style I-III. I'm speaking about Salin's style I. That snakehead likely belongs to later fashion, called Salin's style III. It doesnt matter why they carved snakes or whatever, what matters is how they did it. The Artistic way. Question regarding Salin's style I is if it derived from the zoomorphic sculptures of Rome or from steppe nomads.
This ancient IE cult jadada sounds like some pseudo-mystic "science". You think it requires ancient IE cult for people to draw snakes or dragons ? Were those ancient IE people in China too ?
Too bad for you that the epic wroter called himself allways Finn (en Finne). Runeberg, Great Finn. Your "Finland-Swedish" ethnicity is mainly early 1900's invention
BS.
Finland-Swedish nationality (nationalitet) is 1860's "invention". Swedish ethnicity in sterland has always existed in parallel with the Finnish and Sami, and this won't change despite Porthan made up his bizarre theory in which geography builds the foundation for ethnic identity.
Finland-Swedish nationalaty is as old as the Finnish nationality whom the Swedish descents (Snellman, Arwidsson, Tengstrm, Forsman/Yrj-Koskinen) created by giving common identity to Tavastians, Savoanians and Carelians. In a similar fashion the German and Italian nationalities were born.
Runeberg never wrote anything in Finnish nor could even spoke Finnish, he was a Swedish Ostrobotnian whose writings shaped the whole Scandinavian literature (and, among many other things, earned him a street named after him in Stockholm). Lnnroth was the Finnic epic-writer.
Last edited by PeterThaGreat; 2010-03-06 at 15:25.
BS.
Runeberg never wrote anything in Finnish nor could even spoke Finnish, he was a Swedish Ostrobotnian whose writings shaped the whole Scandinavian literature (and, among many other things, earned him a street named after him in Stockholm).
He actually did spoke Finnish (hoono soomi). Anyhow, he did consider himself an Finn. His selfidentification was Finn. Do you deny that ?
Your great Finland's Swedish poet did never, ever, thought that he is Swedish, ever.
Same goes to Mannerheim too. Your phony political ethnicity group has been tarnishing these great men post-mortum as "swedes", idea that did not even cross the minds of these great Finns.
Germanic animal style also Salin's style I-III. I'm speaking about Salin's style I. That snakehead likely belongs to later fashion, called Salin's style III. It doesnt matter why they carved snakes or whatever, what matters is how they did it. The Artistic way. Question regarding Salin's style I is if it derived from the zoomorphic sculptures of Rome or from steppe nomads.
This ancient IE cult jadada sounds like some pseudo-mystic "science". You think it requires ancient IE cult for people to draw snakes or dragons ? Were those ancient IE people in China too ?
The beautiful bronze and silver jewelery and implements of war of the early Viking period found Norway Sweden and Denmark display no trace plant forms in their ornamentation the latter consisting wholly of interlacing animal forms chiefly the Dragons.
......
This myth explains much of the Scandinavian ornament for in figs 1 and 2 the story is told in a series of incidents remarkable for the fertility of invention and dracontine ornamentation.
Now we need to find out where Scandinavian folklore and myths have their roots in
One common myth which can be found among almost all Indo-European mythologies is a battle ending with the slaying of a serpent, usually a dragon of some sort (Watkins 1995).
Thor vs. Jrmungandr, Sigurd vs. Fafnir in Scandinavian mythology;
Zeus vs. Typhon, Kronos vs. Ophion, Apollo vs. Python, Heracles vs. the Hydra and Ladon, Perseus vs. Ceto, and Bellerophon vs. the Chimera in Greek mythology;
Indra vs. Vrtra in the Rigveda;
Krishna vs. Kāliyā in Bhagavata mythology;
Θraētaona, and later Kərəsāspa, vs. Aži Dahāka in Zoroastrianism and Persian mythology;
Perun vs. Veles, Dobrynya Nikitich vs. Zmey in Slavic mythology;
Tarhunt vs. Illuyanka of Hittite mythology;
Voron, I think we are speaking about two different things here. I'm speaking about archeological classification system of stylistics and you are speaking about the motifs. Sure, lizards are part of Scandinavian mythology.
Voron, I think we are speaking about two different things here. I'm speaking about archeological classification system of stylistics and you are speaking about the motifs. Sure, lizards are part of Scandinavian mythology.
- The interlacing style with different fragments being intertwined with each other is typically Scandinavian and Celtic, looks like the Urnes style http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urnes_style
- The motif being the main theme of an ornament has it roots in Scandinavian Indo-European mythology with accent on being Indo-European
Thus my original statement being that this design couldn't be produced by anything else than an IE culture was correct. It couldn't be a product of Finnish artist, for example, unless he was trying to imitate Scandinavian style.
- The motif being the main theme of an ornament has it roots in Scandinavian Indo-European mythology with accent on being Indo-European
Scandinavian mythology. Those tales and beliefs belong to Scandinavian people of that age. Finnish mythology has lot of snakes too btw. This is more regional cultural thing than anything connected with such a complete nonsense term as Indo-European culture.
Thus my original statement being that this design couldn't be produced by anything else than an IE culture was correct. It couldn't be a product of Finnish artist, for example, unless he was trying to imitate Scandinavian style.
Your statement is still nonsense. That spearhead can very well be import or it can be a local product. There is not much difference between iron age Finnish weaponry compared to Scandinavians or Balts. They all are pretty much the same.
Can you tell me when Indo-Europeans build this chinese sword ?
Originally Posted by Karhunkynsi
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