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So a buddy of mine was tested recently at 23andme, he's from the same region as I am, and we share a tribe in common.
Historical ancestry:
Alevi Kurds from Dersim, with oral ties to Khorasan. Paternal line allegedly descended from Seyyids.
Kurmanji speakers.
Dersim (nowadays Tunceli) is the only region in Anatolia with a majority of Alevis and a significant Zaza population. Alevism is a religion with roots in pre-Islamic Middle East and also Central Asia, but is nowadays considered a branch of Shia Islam.
Results:
Haplogroups:
Y-DNA: R1a1a
mtDNA: J1c
Global Similarity and Ancestry Painting:
Southern Europeans 67,43
Northern Europeans 67,35
Near Easterners 67,26
Central Asians 67,05
Northern Africans 66,39
Siberians 66,15
North Americans 66,1
South Americans 66,04
Eastern Asians 65,96
Oceanians 65,74
Eastern Africans 63,76
Southern Africans 63,64
Central Africans 63,61
Western Africans 63,57
Weac
35.07% Atlantic-Baltic
57.94% Near-East
6.60% Far-East
0.39% Africa
McDonald’s Results:
Most likely fit is 71.8% (+- 8.5%) Mideast (all Iran)
and 28.2% (+- 8.5%) Mideast (various subcontinents)
which is 100% total Mideast
The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
Iranian= 0.632 Armenian= 0.368 or
Iranian= 0.803 Jewish= 0.197
The Jewish is actually very unlikely. Other groups in the Caucasus area are also possible.
Doug Mcdonald
All Kurdish spots (in Green).
I'm related to him, sharing 0,41%, 4 segments, 3rd cousin.
Most of his 'Turkish' parts are what he's got in common with me, and another Dersima.
Not sure if he wants me to share his fictitious name on here, but you shouldn't have much trouble finding him anway.
I believe this fella sent me an invitation, and when I went to accept, the invitation was gone.
Also, is the mtDNA definitely J1c? Because my grandmother and mother have a new RF cousin (as of a couple of days ago):
New cousin. Appears to be related to both my maternal grandmother, and maternal grandfather. So, I presume they are Assyrian. At least in part. The Y-DNA is not frequently observed among Assyrians (~2%).
Match to my mother
3rd to 6th Cousin
0.23% shared, 2 segments
J1d, R1a1a
Match to my maternal grandmother
3rd to 6th Cousin
0.19% shared, 2 segments
J1d, R1a1a
I also found it odd, when I first saw your message in that thread, I also thought it might've been him, but he's definitely another person, J1c surely.
Anyway, there have been quite a number of Dersim/Alevi Kurds tested now (including a Zaza), and the myth that we are somehow Kurdified Turkomans seems entirely disproved.
I also found it odd, when I first saw your message in that thread, I also thought it might've been him, but he's definitely another person, J1c surely.
Anyway, there have been quite a number of Dersim/Alevi Kurds tested now (including a Zaza), and the myth that we are somehow Kurdified Turkomans seems entirely disproved.
Was there ever such a myth then? I must say that he does seem to have some sort of Turkic ancestry considering his Asian admix. But it looks like it's very little.
It could be anything really, it could be a minor Turkish admix, but quite some Kurds seem to have 1% of Asian, so perhaps it stems from another substratum.
For example, Sheikh Ubayd, an Iranian Kurd, also has 1% Asian.
Another Shia Kurd from Iraq also has 1% Asian.
Another Dersima also had 1% Asian.
Another Dersimi has <1%.
Another Alevi from Malatya has 1% Asian.
So, for the Dersimis it could very well be a minor Turkish admix, regarding the proximity to Turks, but the natural borders of Dersim and the Asian admixture among other Kurds make me suspect otherwise.
Anyway, I've often heard on anthroboards and whatnot that people think that Alevi Kurds are Kurdified Turkmen. It didn't really have a basis.
On the other hand, Alevi Kurds are also sometimes thought to be converted Armenians. Whilst there certainly have been quite a number of those willfully Kurdified Armenians, they certainly do not make up the majority of the Alevi Kurds.
Yes, but that doesn't really exclude it being Turkic. Considering the history of Iran and Turkey, it makes sence to me that the Asian admix in Iranians, but especially Kurds, is of Turkic origin - unless Kurds used to live very isolated from Turks, which is not the case as we can see in history but also our AF's. For example, most Kurds seem to have Turkish relatives (with the Turkish relatives having a far higher Asian score most of the time) and surely this doesn't mean that it's the Kurds who have Turkish ancestry (or the other way around), but I don't see why you would think that the Asian is from a different substratum when you are surrounded and ruled for decades by a population with significant Asian admix. Do you get my point?
Well yeah, among Turkish Kurds I can definitely understand, but among Iraqi and Iranian Kurds it's kinda hard for me to imagine that the population as a whole has Turkish ancestry in significant numbers.
When looking through my list at 23andme, a lot of Armenians and Iranians have ~1% Asian, and whilst the latter could surely have Turkic ancestry (Azeri), of the former I kinda doubt it.
Granted, we need more Iraqi and Iranian Kurds to be sure.
Zert's friend's 23andme Results
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Originally Posted by Zert
