The Bronze Age Indo-European invasion of Europe

[joseph capelli]

Some way, somehow, it will be still be "consistent" with his womb of nations hypothesis.

I thought he might have given up on the idea when he found out that pre copper age Europe was quite deprived of "north european", and that "north european" is pretty close to meso European.

I also didn't think he would say that indo European being closer to north caucasian than.south caucasian is consistent with a middle eastern origin of IE...

Oetzi had plenty of atlantic alleles, which are meso european.

[Vetton]

I have no idea why Oetzi from the Alps and the Gotland hunter-gatherers should be evidence that the West Asian component wasn't in Europe at that time? What about all those late Neolithic people in the Balkans, who weren't isolated on mountains or islands?

The balkans are an exception, because due to Geographic proximity they could have acquired the West-Asian much earlier than rest of Europe.

[nuadha]

Oetzi had plenty of atlantic alleles, which are meso european.

My point was that the "North European", largely meso, increased a lot after the copper age. However, "West Asian", whatever that is, didn't increase much...

So that should be an indication of where the migration came from.

[Polako]

Oetzi had plenty of atlantic alleles, which are meso european.

Nah, it's a mix.

One of the Brana samples jas clear Neolithic admix. See Vadim's test.

The balkans are an exception, because due to Geographic proximity they could have acquired the West-Asian much earlier than rest of Europe.

Yes, I agree, East Central Europe is indeed an exception, also in terms of the high number of Indo-European language groups located there.

That's why saying that the lack of West Asian in "Europe" before the Neolithic, without any samples from Neolithic East Central Europe being tested, is stooopid.

[newtoboard]

Many more archeologists and historians support the Eastern European and Central European homeland theories.

There's actually very little support today for an Indo-European homeland south of the Black Sea and Caucasus.

The Indo-European homelands south of the Caucasus are argued for only by Armenian, other West Asian and South Asian nationalists as well as a few Europeans who want to connect PIE with R1b.

Eastern Europe sounds best at this point.

[Hweinlant]

I found it pretty strange that the genetic "Indo-European component" should be present in all modern IE speaking populations. Original PIE spiekers can not have been a big bunch anyway, considering the time frame and how few the people really were. Indo-Europeanization must have been mainly cultural transformation and the genes of the real PIE people can not have spread very wide. As we know that PIE was spoken at Volga-Urals region shouldnt it be logical to consider the "Volga-Urals"-type of dna as the PIE genes ? Obviously the V-U is multilayered and the PIE level is down there somewhere but still imo that should be the main tracking device. Obviously the "Turkic" or "Turko-Mongolic" layer should be peeled off first and then look what is under it in that particular "component".

[EastPole]

Many more archeologists and historians support the Eastern European and Central European homeland theories.

And linguists too.
Frederik Kortlandt “THE SPREAD OF THE INDO-EUROPEANS”

The earlier migrations yielded the peripheral languages […]The Indo-Europeans who remained after the migrations became speakers of Balto-Slavic.

Bernard Comrie and Greville G.Corbett “THE SLAVONIC LANGUAGES”


Polish linguists prof. Mańczak and others on the basis of lexiostatistical and etymological analyses pointed to the Oder and Vistula river basins as Proto-Slavonic and Proto-Indo-European Urheimat.
He demonstrated that Polish is the most archaic and central IE language:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1....10.2.93.16720


I still think that Central-Eastern Europe, i.e. are Oder-Vistula-Dnieper area was IE homeland:



http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...11&postcount=5


http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...&postcount=406


There were no IE cultures and no IE languages in Anatolia before IE tribes started to migrate there from the North after 2000 BC.

[nuadha]

Nah, it's a mix.

One of the Brana samples jas clear Neolithic admix. See Vadim's test.

what website is that?

I didn't even think neolithics were in iberia at that time.

[Hweinlant]

And linguists too.
Frederik Kortlandt “THE SPREAD OF THE INDO-EUROPEANS”

According to Kortlandt PIE was language that was rooted in Indo-Uralic, or just Uralic-like language group but was spoken by migrants from area that was inabited by proto-Pontic/Caspian (Kavkaz) languages speakers.

So the "Kavkaz" speakers migrated from Kavkaz to Forest Steppe of Volga-Urals and went through linguistic and cultural transformation under the influence of "Uralic-like" language and became PIE speakers yet retaining strong substrata from their original language.

What do you think about that ?

I still think that Central-Eastern Europe, i.e. are Oder-Vistula-Dnieper area was IE homeland

Kortlandt certainly does not consider Poland as PIE urheimat but Volga-Urals region, like so many other linguistics.

[Vetton]

what website is that?

I didn't even think neolithics were in iberia at that time.

At the Dodecad the inidivdual shows 42% Atlanto-Med , at Harappa shows 27% Mediterranean or 44% Paleo-Mediterranean at the MLDP5, the question is not if he has already neolithic, but if these type of genetics were already introduced prior to neolithic.