User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: The dual2316 days old

  1. #1
    Established Member
    Junior Member
    Last Online
    2018-12-03 @ 16:46
    Join Date
    2012-04-28
    Posts
    1,667
    Gender
    Ethnicity
    Baltic/German

    Default The dual

    The dual is a grammatical feature of Proto-Indoeuropean, which has been almost completely lost in European languages - also in current Lithuanian.
    I was flabbergasted when I saw that it is preserved in standard Prussian-Lithuanian in all the grammatical categories where dual is possible. All the grammars which were published round 1900 have it.

    Here are a few examples:


    Noun endings:




    Adjectives:




    Personal pronouns:




    Reflexive pronouns:




    Demonstrative pronouns:







    The verb "to be":



    etc.

    Is there dual in your (non-) Indoeuropean language and in which grammatical categories?
    Last edited by Skomand; 2012-08-08 at 19:16.

  2. # ADS
    Advertisement bot
    Join Date
    2013-03-24
    Posts
    All threads
       
     

  3. #2
    Established Member
    .
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-07-02
    Posts
    1,728
    Gender

    Default

    Lost in standart Lithuanian to be more exact. The national comitee of Lithuanian language considers dual as unusable. I can give you examles of how it is used in dialects.

  4. #3
    Established Member
    Junior Member
    Last Online
    2018-12-03 @ 16:46
    Join Date
    2012-04-28
    Posts
    1,667
    Gender
    Ethnicity
    Baltic/German

    Default

    Linkus gave a few examples in another thread.
    The question is whether a few artefacts have been preserved or if it is a living mental concept, which seems to be the case in Prussia.

  5. #4
    Established Member
    .
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-07-02
    Posts
    1,728
    Gender

    Default

    Dual personal pronouns used in Nothern Samogitian:

    N. vedo, ved(v)ė, jodo, jod(v)ė, anodo, anėd(v)ė

    G. vedoms, ved(v)ėms, jodoms, jod(v)ėms, anodoms, anėd(v)ėms

    D. vedom, ved(v)ėm, jodom, jod(v)ėm, anodom, anėd(v)ėm

    A. vedo, ved(v)ė, jodo, jod(v)ė, anodo, anėd(v)ė

    I. vedom, ved(v)ėm, jodom, jod(v)ėm, anodom, anėd(v)ėm


    ---------- Post Merged at 21:34 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    Linkus gave a few examples in another thread.
    The question is whether a few artefacts have been preserved or if it is a living mental concept, which seems to be the case in Prussia.
    Positions of the dual is getting weaker, but it's not suprising because all dialects are being influenced by standart Lithuanian.

    A living mental concept you say. Well, I hope you understand that there are no lessons of local dialects at school where students could actually take a look at their talk through a scentific position. Unlike in East Prussia.


    P.S. I myself speak the dialect mentioned and use these words in daily talk...

  6. #5
    Established Member
    gaudeamus igitur impasible's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-08-31
    Posts
    2,555
    Location
    my wet dreams
    Gender
    Politics
    plutocracia
    Spain Old Aragon

    Default

    what is a 'dual' word?

    when is the same the plural and singular?

    I don't understand the concept of dual, could you provide some examples?

  7. #6
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2012-03-04
    Posts
    1,600
    Gender

    Default

    Dual is also present in Semitic languages, although in most cases it's rarely ever used any more. Most people will just use the full plural rather than the specific dual form.

  8. #7
    Established Member
    Junior Member
    Last Online
    2018-12-03 @ 16:46
    Join Date
    2012-04-28
    Posts
    1,667
    Gender
    Ethnicity
    Baltic/German

    Default

    It's the concept of "two" as a third numerus form alongside "singular" and plural".

    When you say in English "They go home", "they" can be any number above one, including two. In a language that has dual, you have an extra word expressing "the two of them".

    So the numerus system would look like this:

    Singular: He/she goes home.
    Dual: The two of them (in one word) go home.
    Plural: They (= more than two) go home.

    When you have a language with fully developed dual, you have dual forms for nouns, pronouns, adjectives and verbs - as you can see in the Prussian-Lithuanian examples.
    Last edited by Skomand; 2012-08-08 at 22:22.

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Skomand For This Useful Post:

    impasible (2012-08-08), Snchpnz (2012-08-09), The Apple (2012-08-10), yahooland (2012-08-08)

  10. #8
    Established Member
    gaudeamus igitur impasible's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-08-31
    Posts
    2,555
    Location
    my wet dreams
    Gender
    Politics
    plutocracia
    Spain Old Aragon

    Default

    I couldn't even imagine that 'dual' was that.

    Don't see the utility of the dual form, and it's more easy to add something to the plural form in order to specify the duality than having an entire new form in nouns, verbs etc.

    here they go (the pair, couple, etc)

  11. #9
    Established Member
    .
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-07-02
    Posts
    1,728
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by impasible View Post
    I couldn't even imagine that 'dual' was that.

    Don't see the utility of the dual form, and it's more easy to add something to the plural form in order to specify the duality than having an entire new form in nouns, verbs etc.

    here they go (the pair, couple, etc)
    Actually in a way it is easier that you don't have to say additional words to specify what you mean.

    Foreigners often find Lithuanian language hard to learn, but when you're a native speaker, you don't find it complicated. It is as hard as breathing.

    A comparison of Lithuanian which is a lot more flexional language than English:

    nebeprisikiškiakopūsteliaudavome
    first-person plural frequentative past tense of to not to pick up any oxalis anymore.

    From my perspective, I can say that English and similar languages seem to be more complicated in this regard, that is, I find it easier and more comfortable being able to express myself in one word than having to use several more.

  12. #10
    Established Member
    Junior Member
    Last Online
    2018-12-03 @ 16:46
    Join Date
    2012-04-28
    Posts
    1,667
    Gender
    Ethnicity
    Baltic/German

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamona View Post
    Actually in a way it is easier that you don't have to say additional words to specify what you mean.

    Foreigners often find Lithuanian language hard to learn, but when you're a native speaker, you don't find it complicated. It is as hard as breathing.

    A comparison of Lithuanian which is a lot more flexional language than English:

    nebeprisikiškiakopūsteliaudavome
    first-person plural frequentative past tense of to not to pick up any oxalis anymore.

    From my perspective, I can say that English and similar languages seem to be more complicated in this regard, that is, I find it easier and more comfortable being able to express myself in one word than having to use several more.
    This is the difference between synthetic and analytic languages. Since our brains are like computers, they are wired differently in the speakers of Lithuanian and English.
    "Rewiring" your brain is a painful effort, although the concept of synthetic language must be known to educated speakers from Latin.
    I don't think Lithuanian can be taught via immersion, which seems to be the most favoured learning approach for English.

    Lithuanian is also a redundant language ("we go" vs "MES einAME" : "we" is expressed twice).

    Cinnamona, could you separate the lexical units in

    nebeprisikiškiakopūsteliaudavome?
    Last edited by Skomand; 2012-08-09 at 19:06.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Dual Citizenship for descendants of enslaved Africans!
    By Maroon King in forum Race & Ethnicity in Society
    Replies: 223
    Last Post: 2012-09-14, 01:40
  2. The Dual Track Policy is Causing Confusion
    By Excel in forum Horn of Africa Tribune
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 2011-10-01, 12:39
  3. Is it easy to have dual unbiased identity?
    By Kwestos in forum Race & Ethnicity in Society
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 2011-08-29, 18:41
  4. Dual citizens: Divided loyalties?
    By alfieb in forum Ethnicity, Race & Nation
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 2011-04-03, 12:02
  5. Guess dual ancestry of brother and sister.
    By Pallantides in forum Guess Ethnicity
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 2010-03-03, 16:12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
<