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Thread: Ancient Egyptian frescos2265 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by gawasah View Post
    Very very likely a Mixed society, with a Black majority.......



    I cant imagine anywhere else, this person, would place but black African/
    No they weren't black, or white

    they distingushied themselves from blacks as seen in this photo.



    Their sense of race is not the same one as american ones, and since they claim their own identity (ie they distinguish themselves from west asians and blacks as seen in their frescoes), then even if they lived in this time period they would be seen as their own race (this is my assumption based on how indians are viewed) that would most likely overlap with what is considered brown in the west. I'm pretty sure this is the most sensible conclusion

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ethioboy For This Useful Post:

    Esekon Kimatt (2012-10-16), Fimbulvetr (2012-10-16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethioboy View Post
    No they weren't black, or white

    they distingushied themselves from blacks as seen in this photo.



    Their sense of race is not the same one as american ones, and since they claim their own identity (ie they distinguish themselves from west asians and blacks as seen in their frescoes), then even if they lived in this time period they would be seen as their own race (this is my assumption based on how indians are viewed) that would most likely overlap with what is considered brown in the west. I'm pretty sure this is the most sensible conclusion
    They certainly valued their culture and identity much like how the Germans (Nazi era) viewed themselves as superior and more distant from their own neighbouring kinsmen. We saw how they treated the French, Danish, Dutch, Polish and British. However, they seem to have formed a relationship and morphed their culture together with the Austrians and even Hungarians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethioboy View Post
    No they weren't black, or white

    they distingushied themselves from blacks as seen in this photo.



    Their sense of race is not the same one as american ones, and since they claim their own identity (ie they distinguish themselves from west asians and blacks as seen in their frescoes), then even if they lived in this time period they would be seen as their own race (this is my assumption based on how indians are viewed) that would most likely overlap with what is considered brown in the west. I'm pretty sure this is the most sensible conclusion
    I think this solves the issue with Ancient Egyptian's. And a wonderful example is the dark man sitting next to Dr. muhammad Arabi, follow also the 2nd part of this vid:

    http://youtu.be/t4gVs0OVs2Y

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esekon Kimatt View Post
    They certainly valued their culture and identity much like how the Germans (Nazi era) viewed themselves as superior and more distant from their own neighbouring kinsmen. We saw how they treated the French, Danish, Dutch, Polish and British. However, they seem to have formed a relationship and morphed their culture together with the Austrians and even Hungarians.
    Germans still depicted hungarians as white.. clearly there is a clear and obvious difference in depictions here. I mean its quite blatantly obvious(one is brown the other black).

    My point being that, you can't ascribe our definitions to their societies, their own phenotype is divergent enough so that it's not considered black or white.

    ---------- Post Merged at 17:47 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by brainblaster456 View Post
    I think this solves the issue with Ancient Egyptian's. And a wonderful example is the dark man sitting next to Dr. muhammad Arabi, follow also the 2nd part of this vid:

    http://youtu.be/t4gVs0OVs2Y
    No. It doesn't solve the issue, these are people living in a modern area who are thus subject to the modern definitions of black and white. If egyptian society survived untouched until now, their own claim of identity would be strong enough to diverge and create their own type. If they distinguished themselves from both black's and whites in the past and refered to them as such then as a cohesive group their heritage would be distinct.

    Secondly the guy in the video mistakenly attaches race to geography which is a paradox as this is not always the case (think east asian which is automatically linked to mongoloid phenotypes which in turn is ignorant of indians and central asians which aren't considered mongoloid living there).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethioboy View Post
    Germans still depicted hungarians as white.. clearly there is a clear and obvious difference in depictions here. I mean its quite blatantly obvious(one is brown the other black).

    My point being that, you can't ascribe our definitions to their societies, their own phenotype is divergent enough so that it's not considered black or white.
    Of course, I was pointing out that they isolated themselves from their neighbours. The Germans didn't depict the Polish, Jews or Italians as white but swarthy skinned...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethioboy View Post
    germans still depicted hungarians as white.. Clearly there is a clear and obvious difference in depictions here. I mean its quite blatantly obvious(one is brown the other black).

    My point being that, you can't ascribe our definitions to their societies, their own phenotype is divergent enough so that it's not considered black or white.

    ---------- post merged at 17:47 ----------



    no. It doesn't solve the issue, these are people living in a modern area who are thus subject to the modern definitions of black and white. If egyptian society survived untouched until now, their own claim of identity would be strong enough to diverge and create their own type. If they distinguished themselves from both black's and whites in the past and refered to them as such then as a cohesive group their heritage would be distinct.

    Secondly the guy in the video mistakenly attaches race to geography which is a paradox as this is not always the case (think east asian which is automatically linked to mongoloid phenotypes which in turn is ignorant of indians and central asians which aren't considered mongoloid living there).
    So you conclude the AE's as their own race??? And do you see these gentlemen in the video as Real modern Egyptian's. And plus in skin discription they are dark...
    Last edited by brainblaster456; 2012-10-16 at 20:08.

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    Why is there always supremacist making rubbish claims? Egyptians were not white, they are like modern day Egyptians. Which includes an dark skinned North African Caucasoid majority with an minority Ethiopian looking.



    Maybe they had both negroids and caucasoids? I'm confused. The history version of European tell us that Egypt were not Black but that doesn't mean I have to believe everything they say. However.... it's also absurd to think that all the North African people ( 200 million ) are descendants of Europeans and Arabs. They were refer to as "Black" but the meaning also mean't "dark" people.



    It's not uncommon to find dark skinned Caucasoid in Egypt





    ---------- Post Merged at 19:21 ----------


    GENETICS

    Genetic analysis of modern Egyptians reveals that they have paternal lineages common to indigenous North-East Africans, populations primarily, and to Near Eastern peoples to a lesser extent—these lineages would have spread during the Neolithic and maintained by the predynastic period. Studies based on maternal lineages also link Egyptians with people from modern Eritrea/Ethiopia such as the Tigray, who are characterized by haplogroup M1 believed to have originated in West Asia.

    ---------- Post Merged at 19:23 ----------

    University of Chicago Egyptologist Frank Yurco confirmed this finding of historical and regional continuity, saying:

    Certainly there was some foreign admixture [in Egypt], but basically a homogeneous African population had lived in the Nile Valley from ancient to modern times... [the] Badarian people, who developed the earliest Predynastic Egyptian culture, already exhibited the mix of North African and Sub-Saharan physical traits that have typified Egyptians ever since (Hassan 1985; Yurco 1989; Trigger 1978; Keita 1990; Brace et al., this volume)... The peoples of Egypt, the Sudan, and much of East Africa, Ethiopia and Somalia are now generally regarded as a Nilotic (i.e. Nile River) continuity, with widely ranging physical features (complexions light to dark, various hair and craniofacial types) but with powerful common cultural traits, including cattle pastoralist traditions (Trigger 1978; Bard, Snowden, this volume). Language research suggests that this Saharan-Nilotic population became speakers of the Afro-Asiatic languages... Semitic was evidently spoken by Saharans who crossed the Red Sea into Arabia and became ancestors of the Semitic speakers there, possibly around 7000 BC... In summary we may say that Egypt was distinct North African culture rooted in the Nile Valley and on the Sahara.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ButlerKing View Post
    Why is there always supremacist making rubbish claims? Egyptians were not white, they are like modern day Egyptians. Which includes an dark skinned North African Caucasoid majority with an minority Ethiopian looking.
    And who are you refering to? The several BLACK AND PROUD-users in this thread or me who criticized the extremly politically correct new idea that all former civilizations actually were black when its highly unlikely that Ancient Egypt was a black community from day one to the end. Why is there always some fucking anti-white pussy to yell about white guilt as soon you talk about anything that could make white be seen as anything else but evil? You'll get what you deserve in the coming race war in Europe.

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    Egyptians = North African Caucasoids with mixture of Ethiopian ( who are also hybrid Negroid/Caucasoid race).

    The horn of Africans are an very unique race. They are mixture of Black/Middle easterner.


    Many of the maternal origin of Egyptians are from Tigray.








    DNA studies on modern Egyptians

    In general, various DNA studies have found that the gene frequencies of North African populations are intermediate between those of Sub-Saharan Africa and Eurasia,though possessing a greater genetic affinity with the populations of Eurasia than they do with Sub-Saharan Africans.

    Luis, Rowold et al found that the diverse NRY haplotypes observed in a population of mixed Arabs and Berbers found that the majority of haplogroups, about 59% were of Eurasian origin. They found that markers signaling the Neolithic expansion from the Middle East constitute the predominant component.

    A study by Krings et al. from 1999 on mitochondrial DNA clines along the Nile Valley found that a Eurasian cline runs from Northern Egypt to Southern Sudan, and a Sub-Saharan cline extends from Southern Sudan to Northern Egypt.Another study based on maternal lineages links modern Egyptians with people from modern Eritrea/Ethiopia such as the Afro-Asiatic-speaking Tigre.Similarly, an mtDNA study of modern Egyptians from the Gurna region near Thebes in Southern Egypt revealed that Eurasian haplogroups represented 61% of the population, with the remainder 39% being of Sub-Saharan origin. The oral tradition of the Gurna people indicates that they descend from the ancient Egyptians
    A study using the Y-chromosome of modern Egyptian males found similar results, namely that African haplogroups are predominant in the South but the predominant haplogroups in the North are characteristic of other North African populations.

    A study of Coptic ethnic group in Sudan found relatively high frequencies of Sub-Saharan Haplogroup B (Y-DNA). The Copts are descendants of Egyptians who have recently migrated from Egypt. According to the study, the presence of Sub-Saharan haplogroups is consistent with the historical record in which southern Egypt was colonized by Nilotic populations during the early state formation.

    Other studies have shown that modern Egyptians have genetic affinities primarily with populations of North and Northeast Africa,] and to a lesser extent Middle Eastern and European populations. Studies done on ancient Egyptians' remains have shown uniformity and homogeneity among the samples, and cranial/limb ratio similarity with populations from North Africa, Somalia, Nubia, Southwest Asia and Europe. Blood typing and DNA sampling on ancient Egyptian mummies is scant; however, blood typing of dynastic mummies found ABO frequencies to be most similar to modern Egyptians and some also to Northern Haratin populations. ABO blood group distribution shows that the Egyptians form a sister group to North African populations, including Berbers, Nubians and Canary Islanders.

    Some genetic studies done on modern Egyptians suggest that most do not have close relations to most tropical Africans, and other studies show that they are mostly related to other North Africans, and to a lesser extent southern European/Mediterranean and Middle Eastern populations.A 2004 mtDNA study of upper Egyptians from Gurna found a genetic ancestral heritage to modern Northeast Africans, characterized by a high M1 haplotype frequency, and another study links Egyptians in general with people from modern Eritrea and Ethiopia. Though there has been much debate of the origins of haplogroup M1 a recent 2007 study had concluded that M1 has West Asia origins not a Sub Saharan African origin.Origin A 2003 Y chromosome study was performed by Lucotte on modern Egyptians, with haplotypes V, XI, and IV being most common. Haplotype V is common in Berbers and has a low frequency outside Africa. Haplotypes V, XI, and IV are all supra-Saharan/Horn African haplotypes, and they are far more dominant in Egyptians than in Near Eastern or European groups.

    Historically there have been differing accounts of the appearance of ancient Egyptians as compared to people of other nations. Egyptologists generally consider the ancient Egyptians to have been a continuum from the lighter northern population of Lower Egypt to the darker Upper Egyptians. A number of supporting studies have therefore been undertaken on craniometric patterns and skeletal remains. The results have varied, and interpretation has been complicated by conflict over the baselines to be used in analysing this data.


    AUTOSOMAL DNA OF EGYPTIANS = 77-85% Caucasoid + 15-23% Black

    Last edited by ButlerKing; 2012-10-16 at 22:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ButlerKing View Post
    Why is there always supremacist making rubbish claims? Egyptians were not white, they are like modern day Egyptians. Which includes an dark skinned North African Caucasoid majority with an minority Ethiopian looking.



    Maybe they had both negroids and caucasoids? I'm confused. The history version of European tell us that Egypt were not Black but that doesn't mean I have to believe everything they say. However.... it's also absurd to think that all the North African people ( 200 million ) are descendants of Europeans and Arabs. They were refer to as "Black" but the meaning also mean't "dark" people.



    It's not uncommon to find dark skinned Caucasoid in Egypt





    ---------- Post Merged at 19:21 ----------


    GENETICS

    Genetic analysis of modern Egyptians reveals that they have paternal lineages common to indigenous North-East Africans, populations primarily, and to Near Eastern peoples to a lesser extent—these lineages would have spread during the Neolithic and maintained by the predynastic period. Studies based on maternal lineages also link Egyptians with people from modern Eritrea/Ethiopia such as the Tigray, who are characterized by haplogroup M1 believed to have originated in West Asia.

    ---------- Post Merged at 19:23 ----------

    University of Chicago Egyptologist Frank Yurco confirmed this finding of historical and regional continuity, saying:

    Certainly there was some foreign admixture [in Egypt], but basically a homogeneous African population had lived in the Nile Valley from ancient to modern times... [the] Badarian people, who developed the earliest Predynastic Egyptian culture, already exhibited the mix of North African and Sub-Saharan physical traits that have typified Egyptians ever since (Hassan 1985; Yurco 1989; Trigger 1978; Keita 1990; Brace et al., this volume)... The peoples of Egypt, the Sudan, and much of East Africa, Ethiopia and Somalia are now generally regarded as a Nilotic (i.e. Nile River) continuity, with widely ranging physical features (complexions light to dark, various hair and craniofacial types) but with powerful common cultural traits, including cattle pastoralist traditions (Trigger 1978; Bard, Snowden, this volume). Language research suggests that this Saharan-Nilotic population became speakers of the Afro-Asiatic languages... Semitic was evidently spoken by Saharans who crossed the Red Sea into Arabia and became ancestors of the Semitic speakers there, possibly around 7000 BC... In summary we may say that Egypt was distinct North African culture rooted in the Nile Valley and on the Sahara.
    Yes, but my point is the Origin's of Lower Egypt (Modern day Egypt) is historically from Upper Egypt (modern day North Sudan). The bold proof of this is that the first 18 dynasties are called the Old kingdom and worked their way up from upper egypt, anything after that was the Middle kingdom who were european settler's and invader's who become high class in society and treating the indigenous egyptian's like trash. So how can european's claim to be indigenous to Lower Egypt. And if Lower Egyptian's were so called "european descent" why did they form union with Upper Egypt before the Middle kingdom's arrived?


    ^ Two woolly haired egyptian's one from Upper Egypt and the other from Lower Egypt uniting with eachother through the Giraffe's (A tablet from 3100 BC)

    Frescos from the Old kingdom




    Queen Tiye of Upper Egypt



    Last edited by brainblaster456; 2012-10-16 at 21:50.

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