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Thread: Cheese making in Poland in the 6th millennium BC and proto-Indo-European homeland2409 days old

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    Default Cheese making in Poland in the 6th millennium BC and proto-Indo-European homeland

    There is a new article about cheese making in Poland in the 6th millennium BC which may shed new light on PIE homeland :

    Here we apply the same approach to investigate the function of sieves/strainer vessels, providing direct chemical evidence for their use in milk processing. The presence of abundant milk fat in these specialized vessels, comparable in form to modern cheese strainers11, provides compelling evidence for the vessels having being used to separate fat-rich milk curds from the lactose-containing whey. This new evidence emphasizes the importance of pottery vessels in processing dairy products, particularly in the manufacture of reduced-lactose milk products among lactose-intolerant prehistoric farming communities6
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture11698.html

    Supplementary Information :
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...re11698-s1.pdf





    The earliest sites with evidence of cheese making belonged to Linear Pottery culture (LBK) in Kujavia 5400 BC. One of the sites was in Brześć Kujawski.

    In „ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE BARBARIAN WORLD” Tom I there is and article: „Brześć Kujawski” by Peter Bogucki. Here are some fragments:
    Page 378
    Brześć Kujawski (pronounced “brzheshch koo-YAV-sky”) is one of several large Neolithic settlements that flourished between about 4500 and 4000 B.C. on the lowlands of north-central Poland. The settlements are found primarily in the region known as Kujavia located to the west of the Vistula River, an area of low, rolling terrain with many streams, lakes, and marshes. Brzesść Kujawski and similar sites are important because they represent the first large agricultural settlements on the low-lands of northern Europe and for their presence on the frontier between farming societies to the south and the foraging peoples to the north.
    Agriculture had come to Kujavia a thousand years earlier, as indicated by the appearance of settlements of the Linear Pottery culture, but it developed very slowly as the farmers adjusted to the new terrain and soils. The Linear Pottery settlements existed as small frontier outposts among the indigenous Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. After several centuries, large Neolithic settlements sprang up at Brześć Kujawski, Osłonki, Krusza Zamkowa, and several other locations about 4500 B.C. They clearly descended from Linear Pottery antecedents, but the Lengyel culture, named after a site in Hungary. Even within the Lengyel culture, however, Brześć Kujawski and its neighbors are distinctive and are known as the “Brześć Kujawski Group.”
    Page 379:
    The copper artifacts found at Brześć Kujawski and similar sites in Kujavia represent the earliest known use of copper in this part of Europe, around 4400 B.C.
    Page 381
    In the end, the intensive pattern of land use for farming, herding, and hunting that supported set-tlements like Brześć Kujawski and Osłonki was not sustainable, and these sites were abandoned. In-stead of concentrations of houses occupied for a long period of time, subsequent inhabitants of this region spread themselves more widely across the landscape in shorter-lived settlements. Yet echoes of the Brześć Kujawski longhouses can be seen in the trapezoidal shape of the Kujavian long barrows of the Funnel Beaker culture built between 3900 and 3400 B.C.
    LBK culture is followed by Funnel Beaker culture. It is important to note that Funnel Beaker culture also originated in Central Poland:
    Page 297
    The Funnel Beaker culture was distributed across the North European Plain to the north of the groups that followed the Linearbandkeramik between the Netherlands and the Vistula River valley. The earliest Funnel Beaker radiocarbon date, obtained at Sarnowo in central Poland, was 4400 B.C
    We know from aDNA that Funnel Beaker farmers were similar to the Greeks, but in Poland they were mixing with hunter gatherers, who were a mix of locals and some migrants from the steppe, and as a result of that mixing they became more similar to Poles. As a result of that also new cultures emerged like Globular Amphora and Corded Were which are believed to be early Indo-European cultures possessing everything IE should have:

    Page 373
    By 3500–3000 B.C. plows, wagons, copper metallurgy, horse riding, wool production, and the milking of cows, goats, and sheep were present in central Europe.

    Corded Ware culture also originated in Central Poland in Kujavia:
    Corded Ware ceramic forms in single graves develop earlier in Poland than in western and southern Central Europe.[5] The earliest radiocarbon dates for Corded Ware come from Kujavia and Małopolska in central and southern Poland and point to the period around 3000 BC
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    After 3000 BC Globular Amphora and Corded Ware expanded from Poland East, West and South and with that we can observe the spread of R1a1 and Slavonic languages.
    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...ifferentiation


    The expansion East was described here:

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...l=1#post593611



    It may be also interesting to note that Slavonic languages have very archaic PIE vocabulary relating to dairy products, for example Avestan. ‘tūiri-‘ “chees” and Greek ‘τυρός’ „cheese” don’t have any other etymology than Slavonic ‘tvar-
    From Slavonic ‘tvarog’ Germanic ‘quark’ is also derived:

    The name comes from the Late Middle High German Quark, which in turn is derived through twarc, quarc, zwarg from the Lower Sorbian Slavic tvarog, (Polish twaróg, Belarusian тварог, Russian творог, and Czech and Slovak tvaroh, which means "curd". In Austria, the name Topfen (pot cheese) is used, and in Hungarian, túró is used. In Flanders, it is called platte kaas (flat cheese), while the Dutch use the name kwark. In Norway and Sweden, it is called kvarg. However, in Sweden it is more commonly known under the product name "Kesella".
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_%28cheese%29

    PIE language was formed between 4000 -2500 BC and after that started to migrate.
    I am more and more convinced that PIE homeland was in Poland and that the expansion of proto-Indo-Europeans had something to do with the expansion of R1a1 and proto-Slavonic languages from Poland and that it most likely had something to do with the expansion of Corded Ware and Globular Amphora cultures.
    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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    You Poles may have invented cheese, but we English perfected it lad.

    Is it true they found cave paintings of Wallace and Gromit nearby?

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    What does cheese have to do with Indo-European?

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    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azvarohi View Post
    What does cheese have to do with Indo-European?
    Everyone loves good cheese.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azvarohi View Post
    What does cheese have to do with Indo-European?
    If you don't like cheese, bread or sausages then you are not a European.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azvarohi View Post
    What does cheese have to do with Indo-European?
    Cheese and other preserved milk-derived products are and have always been a staple for Eurasian pastoralist nomads and derived cultures, like IE was. Agricultural peasants (like those of pre-IE Europe) don't have the abundance of milk required and/or necessity to preserve it (having access to other easily storageable foods).
    Last edited by Cail; 2012-12-13 at 15:15.

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    So we have words cognate to PIE ekwhos, 'horse' in all the daughter languages which was a wild steppe animal domesticated on the steppes where PIE was originally spoken.

    So then where is the PIE term for cheese and all its linguistic cognates in all other IE branches?

    Also why no heroic tales of cheese making in early IE cosmology but rather equine warfare and cattle raiding, something far more steppic in character rather then Central Europe?

    Yamna culture had wheeled vehicles, and many horse and cattle remains in addition to sheep BTW from 3600-2800 BC. Far more then GAC and TRB cultures and before them.

    TRB culture has no firm evidence of horse domestication, very little horse remains (only one found) and no archaeological evidence of a completely excavated wheeled vehicle. Yamna does however.
    Last edited by geomattica; 2012-12-13 at 15:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastPole View Post
    I am more and more convinced that PIE homeland was in Poland and that the expansion of proto-Indo-Europeans had something to do with the expansion of R1a1 and proto-Slavonic languages from Poland and that it most likely had something to do with the expansion of Corded Ware and Globular Amphora cultures
    I am more and more convinced that you are insane. But go ahead live in your own world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue3000 View Post
    I am more and more convinced that you are insane. But go ahead live in your own world.
    EastPole is an interesting individual. I've been reading a book which partially comments Polish chauvinism in 20th century (which is actually continuation or earlier times), I was surprised that it mentioned certain theories/claims popularized by Polish chauvinists, so much that I thought EP must have read those brochures of the first half of 20th century himself!
    Though the book comments Polish-Lithuanian relationships and so has nothing to do with PIE question, it awfully contrasts with EP's blames for repeating outdated shit.
    EastPole is so annoying I can not resist to bitch about him.
    Last edited by cinnamona; 2012-12-13 at 16:07.

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