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Thread: Mismodeling Indo-European Origins: The Assault On Historical Linguistics2378 days old

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetick View Post
    The Stormfront reference was great. Pointing out simple flaws in classification that many undergrads would not make is classic. With all those people listed in the original paper at least one of them reviewing should have been a "real" linguist and pointed out all the bad assumptions.

    Thank God for peer review!
    Hehe:

    What's the point of peer review (in reference to Marc Haber et al. 2012)?: http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2012...reference.html

    Peer-review is a great method, but it's certainly not idiotproof if the peer-reviewers are morons. The problem with the Bouckaert et al. article goes deeper than peer-review though; it's intimately tied to the decadence and degeneration of equality.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2013-01-16 at 03:36. Reason: clarify
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    thetick (2013-01-16)

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  4. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    What are your thoughts on it?
    I really enjoyed the lecture; I wish that I had 10-20 years to spend on studying cultural linguistics.

    I really would like to investigate the underlying assumptions into the competing hypotheses of Indo-European-Aryan geographical spreads. I'd investigate 100 base, common cognates: water, sun, warmth, cold, sword, wheel, sick, farm, city, etc. If linguistics can study the most common tribal & civilized conceptual cognates then it'd become much easier to hypothesize the spread of ancient languages to modernity.

    Plus I'd investigate the difference between spoken cognates (mother-tongue) and written cognates (Roman Catholic Latin popular predominance for example).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polako View Post
    Anyway, I still can't watch the vid here, because I don't have headphones with me. What was the reference to Stormfront?
    He sad anyone searching Google for ethno-graphical maps get results from Stormfront. He also quickly discussed Nazi Aryan ideology prior to discussing Stomfront.
    Last edited by thetick; 2013-01-16 at 04:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Excellent lecture. The Anatolian hypothesis (not theory, but hypothesis; that's an important distinction here) is not only pseudo-science, but more importantly, a text-book example of anti-intellectualism, and championed by ignorant fools.
    The lecture is not any major criticism of the Anatolian model but of the Atkinson paper. The Anatolian model was designed long before the Atkinson paper.

    The lecture by Martin W. Lewis and Asya Pereltsvaig brought up the issues, nonsense, inaccuracies and plain stupid bullshit championed by Colin Renfrew
    Renfrew is only seriously mentioned in the beginning (maybe more so in the FAQ, didn't want to waste my time anymore), and in the same part as they mention the nonsense of Gimbutas. You can't take criticism of a scientific paper and seriously use it against someone unrelated to the paper.

    Quote Originally Posted by thetick View Post
    Great thread. Very interesting and entertaining to see linguistic professionals rip apart another professional's research paper.
    Hopefully all the adfly nonsense has not chased off Jaska.
    Lewis is not a linguist, and Pereltsvaig is not educated/specialised in historical linguistics.
    Last edited by Azvarohi; 2013-01-16 at 06:34.

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    Alaron (2013-01-16)

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    Will take time out to watch this tonight. Currently at work. Can someone add a more brief summary here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fact-Finder View Post
    It's like using Leonardo Dicaprio to play Rambo or something.

    http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/...0.gif~original

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    By the way, Pereltsvaig, what's that, Polish? She talked about Slavic and Polish a lot.
    I was curious about it too. Her accent is Russian rather than Polish though.
    Her surname (as well as first name) are Ashkenazi Jewish:
    http://www.pereltsvaig.com/personal.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azvarohi View Post
    The lecture is not any major criticism of the Anatolian model but of the Atkinson paper. The Anatolian model was designed long before the Atkinson paper.
    I know. That's beside the point...

    Quote Originally Posted by Azvarohi View Post
    Renfrew is only seriously mentioned in the beginning (maybe more so in the FAQ, didn't want to waste my time anymore), and in the same part as they mention the nonsense of Gimbutas. You can't take criticism of a scientific paper and seriously use it against someone unrelated to the paper.
    It's not unrelated. The Bouckaert et al. paper's conclusions supported Renfrew's nonsensical hypothesis. The fact that Bouckaert's paper is pseudoscience, is a major blow to Renfrew's ideas. Had the virology method been valid for linguistics, Renfrew would have gained a +1 score. The fact that every pro-Renfrew paper is being invalidated from right to left by experts and laymen alike, should give you a hint on the Anatolian hypothesis; it's not a "competing hypothesis" at this point. As I've said before, the only valid scenarios of PIE urheimat are the Pontic-Caspian steppe and possibly Poland (due to R1a diversity not taken into account by Mallory et al.); the rest such as India, Anatolia etc. are all bullshit waste of time.

    Gimbutas was ideological on the ecofeminist stuff, but her connection between the Kurgan burial mounds and PIE was correct, and that's what matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azvarohi View Post
    Lewis is not a linguist, and Pereltsvaig is not educated/specialised in historical linguistics.
    Doesn't matter, their conclusions are accurate. Heck, I don't have any education/degree on PIE, and I could shoot down Renfrew's entire hypothesis going by what Mallory has written and the current plethora of knowledge on R1a alone. Your argument is an ad verecundiam ('you need an education title to be right about something').
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2013-01-22 at 12:13. Reason: clarify
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    By the way, Pereltsvaig, what's that, Polish? She talked about Slavic and Polish a lot.
    It was mentioned when she was introduced that she originally came from Russia to Israel and farther on.

    BTW, her Slavic arguments were not ideal like the claim that Russian has more loanwords than Polish or that Russians call ass ishak instead of osyol.

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    The sound quality is hurting on the ears...

    Osyol - Osioł

    - - - Updated - - -

    Słonina? Fuck this is słonina however I agree it looks like a word made of solić (to salt) I am not so sure this does not come from osłaniać (to shield) what usually fat tissue does.

    - - - Updated - - -

    again the wheel bullshit showing slavic as a language group with quite poor wagon vocabulary.
    and the IEEE Milestone for breaking the Enigma Code goes to... Polish Cipher Bureau 1932-39

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