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Thread: Afro-Asiatic Urheimat in the Green Sahara1749 days old

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    Default Afro-Asiatic Urheimat in the Green Sahara

    Proto-Cushitic split from Proto-Afro-Asiatic when the Sahara Desert dried out about 8000 years ago and people migrated north and south. Those who migrated north to the Levant and North Africa developed into Semitic languages and those that migrated southeast to the Horn of Africa developed into proto-Cushitic, and those that migrated southwest developed into the ancestor of languages like Hausa. For many thousands of years after this split happened it could be argued that people spoke the same language family and that these diverged over time. The event that dried out the Sahara was the "Younger Dryas", an abrupt climate shift.

    Here is a hydrology map of the Sahara, showing the material culture of the Sahara before the Younger Dryas.



    South of this area around mega Lake Tchad and Lake Bahr al Ghazal is the homeland of the Nilo Saharan peoples. North Africa at this time was forest and was inhabited by the people who's material culture was "Iberomaurusian", but the Younger Dryas dried out this area and turned it into grassland, where the migrating Saharans moved in and the merged people founded the Capsian culture and ultimately, the ancient proto-Amazigh, the people the Egyptians referred to as the Libu.

    The main thrust of the migration off the Sahara was eastwards to the Nile, where Saharan culture did not migrate but rather expanded along the Nile and absorbed the Kebaran culture of lower Egypt and pushed into Asia to establish the Natufian culture, from whence all Semitic languages descend.

    The ancestors of proto-Cushitic travelled east to the Nile as well, then south into the Horn of Africa, where it expanded as far south as Tanzania.


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    Quote Originally Posted by James Dahl View Post
    The problem with this map is that it doesn't follow linguistic paleontology, and so the entire hypothesis is invalid by default.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Linguistic paleontology is an oxymoron unless you are referring to actual inscriptions, and is largely bunk pseudoscience. Name me one leading historical linguist who believes paleolinguistics is anything more than that and I may concede your point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Dahl View Post
    Linguistic paleontology is an oxymoron unless you are referring to actual inscriptions
    No, I'm referring to reconstructible root words from extant cognates, and through this process, the possibility to know about the geography of said urheimat, by studying the vocabulary of a language family through the flora and fauna of the original speakers, and possibly also technology (or lack thereof).

    Quote Originally Posted by James Dahl View Post
    and is largely bunk pseudoscience.
    Linguistic paleontology is the best method to geographically locate and prehistorically date the age of a language family. If you disagree, you don't know what you're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Dahl View Post
    Name me one leading historical linguist who believes paleolinguistics is anything more than that and I may concede your point.
    Sure, here you go:

    Other linguists who may be considered paleolinguists due to their advocacy of long-range hypotheses include: John Bengtson, Knut Bergsland, Derek Bickerton, Václav Blažek, Robert Caldwell, Matthias Castrén, Björn Collinder, Albert Cuny, Igor Diakonov, Vladimir Dybo, Harold Fleming, Eugene Helimski, Otto Jespersen, Frederik Kortlandt, Samuel E. Martin, Roy Andrew Miller, Hermann Möller, Susumu Ōno, Holger Pedersen, Alexis Manaster Ramer, G.J. Ramstedt, Rasmus Rask, Jochem Schindler, Wilhelm Schmidt, Georgiy Starostin, Morris Swadesh, Henry Sweet, Vilhelm Thomsen, Vladimir N. Toporov, Alfredo Trombetti, C.C. Uhlenbeck.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoli...Paleolinguists

    ^^ Unlike jokesters such as S.O.Y. Keita and Martin Bernal, these linguists are all top notch professional experts in their field.

    I hate to break it down to you pal, but proto-Afro-Asiatic urheimat anywhere in the African continent, is as dead as disco.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2014-12-31 at 02:46.
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    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” ― H. L. Mencken

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

    “Damnant quod non intelligunt.” ― Latin proverb

    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    The spread of Afro-Asiatic languages also corresponds with the spread of Y-DNA haplogroup E-P2 (aka E1b) which is found in all Afro-Asiatic speaking populations, the only Y-DNA haplogroup lineage that is found in all populations from Hausa to Somalis to Arabs, Hebrews, Assyrians and Berbers. The spread of agriculture into Europe by Levantine pioneers also carried this lineage into the Balkans and deep into Europe.

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    I guess my challenge stands, you didn't name anyone with any level of degree or qualifications in Linguistics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Dahl View Post
    The spread of Afro-Asiatic languages also corresponds with the spread of Y-DNA haplogroup E-P2 (aka E1b) which is found in all Afro-Asiatic speaking populations, the only Y-DNA haplogroup lineage that is found in all populations from Hausa to Somalis to Arabs, Hebrews, Assyrians and Berbers. The spread of agriculture into Europe by Levantine pioneers also carried this lineage into the Balkans and deep into Europe.
    Yes, E1b is a classic standard argument among the proto-Afro-Asiatic in Ethiopia/sub-Sahara crowd. Logical problems with this belief arise, when E-P2 is first and foremost, far too old a mutation to match with or coincide with the spread of Afro-Asiatic languages, and second, Y-DNA E* as a whole, likely mutated in the Middle East in the first place (of course, long before proto-Afro-Asiatic existed as a spoken vernacular).

    Quote Originally Posted by James Dahl View Post
    I guess my challenge stands, you didn't name anyone with any level of degree or qualifications in Linguistics.
    Apparently you don't know anything about linguistics. Thanks for the clarification. Keep ya head up, dawg.
    ReactOS <--- support this project so that we can get rid of Windows!
    Ubuntu MATE 16.04.1 LTS | PRISM-Break! | Windows7sins

    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” ― H. L. Mencken

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

    “Damnant quod non intelligunt.” ― Latin proverb

    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    The only viable theory of an afro-Asiatic urheimat follows material culture towards linguistic culture. Every other accepted urheimat theory relies on following material culture (Indo-European languages and Kurgan material culture, Celtic languages and Hallstatt material culture) yet Afro-Asiatic is a special case? Don't be ridiculous.

    The spread of Afro-Asiatic culture directly corresponds with the spread of Saharan material culture to the Nile and the Sahel, transitioning to Proto-Semitic that directly corresponds with the Natufian material culture in Egypt and the Levant, which spreads throughout the near east.

    An Asiatic origin for Afro-Asiatic does not correspond with this archaeological reality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Yes, E1b is a classic standard argument among the proto-Afro-Asiatic in Ethiopia/sub-Sahara crowd. Logical problems with this belief arise, when E-P2 is first and foremost, far too old a mutation to match with or coincide with the spread of Afro-Asiatic languages, and second, Y-DNA E* as a whole, likely mutated in the Middle East in the first place (of course, long before proto-Afro-Asiatic existed as a spoken vernacular).

    Apparently you don't know anything about linguistics. Thanks for the clarification. Keep ya head up, dawg.
    That's hilarious, you already know about this and you still refuse to accept it? On grounds that it's "too old"? Wow

    I have presented you with the material culture evidence, with the genetic evidence, with the linguistic evidence (how did Afro-Asiatic get to Nigeria in ancient times under your hypothesis?) and you counter with some pseudoscience and that's it, debate over. I admire your debating skills sir

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Yes, E1b is a classic standard argument among the proto-Afro-Asiatic in Ethiopia/sub-Sahara crowd. Logical problems with this belief arise, when E-P2 is first and foremost, far too old a mutation to match with or coincide with the spread of Afro-Asiatic languages,
    Yet you've tried to attach R1b and J1 to Proto-Afro-Asiatic yet these are also far too old a mutations to match with or coincide with Afro-Asiatic.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    and second, Y-DNA E* as a whole, likely mutated in the Middle East in the first place (of course, long before proto-Afro-Asiatic existed as a spoken vernacular).
    Only glass "chinned/jawed" fools believe Y-DNA E* mutated in the Middle East.
    Last edited by Iron Hand; 2014-12-31 at 04:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Dahl View Post
    Linguistic paleontology is an oxymoron unless you are referring to actual inscriptions, and is largely bunk pseudoscience. Name me one leading historical linguist who believes paleolinguistics is anything more than that and I may concede your point.
    For what it's worth, here is a interesting critique on linguistic paleontology

    http://www.ddl.ish-lyon.cnrs.fr/coll...3-Heggarty.pdf

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