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Thread: Allentoft et al. 2015: Population genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia1761 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugevit View Post
    Are you suggesting that the authors of the study did not run DNA and carbon testing of the samples? Instead they expressed outdated ideas about the haplogroups? Archaeologists described the archaeological culture years ago. Population geneticists did the DNA testing recently.
    They used PCR techniques, which means the results might be due to modern contamination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    N1c obviously was there. At least it was in Belarus. 2,500 b.c.
    As to language, I believe it did speak Uralic something. Because N1c came from East. And East was Indo-Altaio-Uralic back then. Not much choise for what kind of language they had.
    Uralic or its cousin smth seems to fit the best.
    PIE was created near steppe on Indo-Uralic bases on NW Caucasian-ish substrate.
    Altaic is the other alternative.
    Fact that IE and paleo Euro was spoken before FU in Finland?
    Well, Paleo obviously was spoken there. And IE was spoken in between Uralic waves.

    Nothing is certain about the languages spoken in 4,000-6,000 years ago in eastern Baltic area. That's how I see it.


    Paleo-European languages - Comb Ceramic culture
    Early Indo-European languages — Corded-ware horizon
    Proto-Baltic-Finnic — 3000 years ago maybe a little earlier in eastern Baltics
    Late Indo-European languages in some area where Finnic was spoken. Arrival of Slavs to north-western and northern Russia and Balts to the Gulf of Riga.
    Last edited by Rugevit; 2015-06-25 at 07:50.

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    Comb Ceramic - did not it come from East? If so, those were not Paleo Euro languages, but rather Paleo Eurasian or Syberian. Wiki says same ceramics patterns go back to Baraba steppe.

    That is of course if imigrants pushed their language on locals together with culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Comb Ceramic - did not it come from East? If so, those were not Paleo Euro languages, but rather Paleo Eurasian or Syberian. Wiki says same ceramics patterns go back to Baraba steppe.

    That is of course if imigrants pushed their language on locals together with culture.
    There is a tendency in modern times to correlate the Comb Ceramic culture with paleo-European languages due to toponyms and hydronyms that some linguists consider paleo-European.

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    Comb Ceramic came from East with new Uralic anthro type. near Baltic it mixed with local Paleo Euro type, but they used new ceramics.
    It is possible that local guys did speak some Paleo dialekts before or even after mix but culture impulse and new commers obviously did not.
    I wonder if it is possible to distinguish
    Paleo-Uralic-IE-Uralic
    From
    Paleo-IE-Uralic

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Comb Ceramic came from East with new Uralic anthro type. near Baltic it mixed with local Paleo Euro type, but they used new ceramics.
    So-called "Uralic anthrotype" existed in NE Europe long before CC-culture. The "Karelian-R1a" is from cemetery that supposedly already had "Uralic anthrotype". Keep in mind that from mtdna-perspective that particular cemetery-island was more similar to modern "West Siberian/Uralian" populations than modern populations in or near Karelia.


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    If I recall Raisa Andrejevaa correct then there were two types of skulls first
    Then more Europoids arrived
    Then during CC more Uralic folk arrived
    Then during CW more Europoids again.

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    RISE61 from Denmark 2851-2492 BC, R1a-Z284:





    IE linguistics needs updating. I am more in favor of this model:



    It fits genetics better than others. Proto-Indo-Iranians, Proto-Balts and Proto-Germanics had recent i.e. after 2500 BC contacts with Proto-Slavs. It is seen in the genes and it changes the whole picture. We should start talking about Slavic influences or participation in formation of above mentioned proto languages.
    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    If I recall Raisa Andrejevaa correct then there were two types of skulls first
    Then more Europoids arrived
    Then during CC more Uralic folk arrived
    Then during CW more Europoids again.
    She wrote about one specific cemetery-site in Latvia called Zvejnieki burial grounds. She also wrote that there was no continuity between the earliest inhabitants and the early neolithic ones (described as "metis"). She also pointed out that the early neolithic cranias are similar to mesolithic cranias from Olenij Ostrov (=Karelia) mesolithic burial ground.

    Her dating to early neolithic period was and is shaky, as there are no ceramics in any of burials found from Zvejnieki. This leads to conclusion that "Uralic anthrotype" existed also in Latvia before Comb Ceramic Culture (defined by tat-ta-daa ceramics).

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    Sintasha Aryan charioteers seem to be very Scandinavian.

    Code:
    Eurogenes K13 / Gedmatch ID F999949
    
    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 North_Swedish @ 11.235116
    2 Swedish @ 12.282766
    3 Norwegian @ 14.551360
    4 North_German @ 15.159252
    5 Southwest_Finnish @ 15.790605
    6 Danish @ 16.338369
    7 North_Dutch @ 16.625210
    8 East_German @ 19.144930
    9 Irish @ 19.198999
    10 Orcadian @ 19.370138
    11 Finnish @ 19.979836
    12 West_Scottish @ 20.168552
    13 La_Brana-1 @ 20.266144
    14 Austrian @ 20.470215
    15 South_Polish @ 20.903767
    16 Southeast_English @ 21.404079
    17 Polish @ 21.442987
    18 Estonian @ 21.842094
    19 Hungarian @ 22.466314
    20 Southwest_English @ 22.565838
    
    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Finnish +50% Norwegian @ 11.085001

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