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Thread: Assyrian y-DNA Haplogroup Distribution1644 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgh View Post
    I'm somewhat confused. Assyrians are closer to Armenians than to the others...Turks are closer to Armenians than the others but Armenians are equal in their connection to Assyrians and Turks...I must be reading something wrong. I wonder if you can elaborate on that?
    "Turks" are basically genetically Armenian/Assyrian with around 5% non-Caucasoid admixture (Turco-Mongol), mostly on the paternal lineage. They're not really that Greek either, as they cluster much closer to Assyrians on autosomal PCA plots than they are to Greeks, even the pseudo-Turks from Western Anatolia (although I'd imagine the pseudo-Turks from Istanbul are very likely more or less Greek or generally more European).

    But it should be emphasised: Assyrians are more racially pure and don't have any Mongoloid admixture or anything like that, at least nowhere near the 5-10% admixture some Western Anatolian pseudo-Turks can have.

    Also, some Kurds do have some Negroid and Mongoloid admixture as well. I have yet to see any Assyrian with significant non-Caucasoid admixture though.
    Quote Originally Posted by birko19 View Post
    You're reading too much into it, it's just a haplogroup count, it does not mean they're closer to this or that.
    Actually, the fact that Y-DNA D (East Eurasian Y-DNA) is existent in pseudo-Turks at a 1-2% frequency and non-existent amongst Assyrians/Armenians/Maronites is evidence of the the genetic fact that Assyrians have virtually no Mongoloid admixture whereas pseudo-Turks have Mongoloid admixture below 10% of their autosomal DNA.

    This also explains the somewhat more eastern drag of pseudo-Turks on the PCA plot.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2010-04-28 at 07:42.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgh View Post
    I'm somewhat confused. Assyrians are closer to Armenians than to the others...Turks are closer to Armenians than the others but Armenians are equal in their connection to Assyrians and Turks...I must be reading something wrong. I wonder if you can elaborate on that?
    Assyrian y-DNA is most similar to Armenian y-DNA. Assyrian y-DNA is next most similar to Turkish y-DNA. Assyrian y-DNA is least similar to Maronite y-DNA.

    Armenian y-DNA is approximately similar to Assyrian and Turkish y-DNA. Armenian y-DNA is least similar to Maronite y-DNA.

    Turkish y-DNA is most similar to Armenian y-DNA. Turkish y-DNA is next most similar to Assyrian y-DNA. Turkish y-DNA is least similar to Maronite y-DNA.

    Maronite y-DNA is most similar to Armenian y-DNA. Maronite y-DNA is next most similar to Assyrian y-DNA. Maronite y-DNA is least similar to Turkish y-DNA.

    Assyrian Maronite Armenian Turkish
    Assyrian 0.00, 36.09, 7.12, 16.16
    Maronite 36.09, 0.00, 27.65, 47.69
    Armenian 7.12, 27.65, 0.00, 7.18
    Turkish 16.16, 47.69, 7.18, 0.00

    The lower the #, the higher the y-DNA affinity.

    ---------- Post added 2010-04-28 at 02:49 ----------

    Note: Assyrian y-DNA is now based on 51 samples. Taken from SMGF database. I failed to update the chart.
    Last edited by Humanist; 2010-04-28 at 07:48.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    "Turks" are basically genetically Armenian/Assyrian with around 5% non-Caucasoid admixture (Turco-Mongol), mostly on the paternal lineage. They're not really that Greek either, as they cluster much closer to Assyrians on autosomal PCA plots than they are to Greeks, even the pseudo-Turks from Western Anatolia (although I'd imagine the pseudo-Turks from Istanbul are very likely more or less Greek or generally more European).

    But it should be emphasised: Assyrians are more racially pure and don't have any Mongoloid admixture or anything like that, at least nowhere near the 5-10% admixture some Western Anatolian pseudo-Turks can have.

    Also, some Kurds do have some Negroid and Mongoloid admixture as well. I have yet to see any Assyrian with significant non-Caucasoid admixture though.Actually, the fact that Y-DNA D (East Eurasian Y-DNA) is existent in pseudo-Turks at a 1-2% frequency and non-existent amongst Assyrians/Armenians/Maronites is evidence of the the genetic fact that Assyrians have virtually no Mongoloid admixture whereas pseudo-Turks have Mongoloid admixture below 10% of their autosomal DNA.

    This also explains the somewhat more eastern drag of pseudo-Turks on the PCA plot.
    Do you have a link to these graphs/plots? I'd like to seem them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Also, some Kurds do have some Negroid and Mongoloid admixture as well. I have yet to see any Assyrian with significant non-Caucasoid admixture though.Actually, the fact that Y-DNA D (East Eurasian Y-DNA) is existent in pseudo-Turks at a 1-2% frequency and non-existent amongst Assyrians/Armenians/Maronites is evidence of the the genetic fact that Assyrians have virtually no Mongoloid admixture whereas pseudo-Turks have Mongoloid admixture below 10% of their autosomal DNA.

    This also explains the somewhat more eastern drag of pseudo-Turks on the PCA plot.
    Being Turk and belonging to a certain haplogroup is irrelevant, today the most popular haplogroup in Central Asia is R1a, that's where most of those real Turk populations live today.

    If we base ourselves on haplogroups we're nowhere near pure, how do you explain the R1a, R2, L, Q, N, and even some of the R1b's? Or how about explaining the I in the Lebanese population? There's no such thing as pure when it comes to haplogroups unless we're dealing with isolated groups.

    Read what I said earlier, 10 generations away from you is 1024 ancestors, this is around 400 years ago, this haplogroup only makes up 1 out of the 1024, the deeper you go the more ancestors you have, this makes me question people's intelligence when they start basing populations on these haplogroups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by birko19 View Post
    Being Turk and belonging to a certain haplogroup is irrelevant, today the most popular haplogroup in Central Asia is R1a, that's where most of those real Turk populations live today.

    If we base ourselves on haplogroups we're nowhere near pure, how do you explain the R1a, R2, L, Q, N, and even some of the R1b's? Or how about explaining the I in the Lebanese population? There's no such thing as pure when it comes to haplogroups unless we're dealing with isolated groups.

    Read what I said earlier, 10 generations away from you is 1024 ancestors, this is around 400 years ago, this haplogroup only makes up 1 out of the 1024, the deeper you go the more ancestors you have, this makes me question people's intelligence when they start basing populations on these haplogroups.
    Yeah apparently the Lebanese and the Armenians got hot and heavy(moderately so lol) with those I-carrying Europeans; the Turks even more so(no shame)...damn we didn't get any action holed up in our mountains ...then again it was the European guys getting it on with Levantine and Anatolian women...God bless those mountains.
    Last edited by sgh; 2010-04-28 at 08:36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by birko19 View Post
    Being Turk and belonging to a certain haplogroup is irrelevant, today the most popular haplogroup in Central Asia is R1a, that's where most of those real Turk populations live today.
    And R1a was brought there with Indo-European speakers (Caucasians). R1a may have "Eastern" origins but it is not an East Eurasian/Mongoloid Y-DNA.

    The Emerging Tree of West Eurasian mtDNAs.

    You don't find R1a at a high frequency in ethnic Chinese/Japanese and other Mongolid groups, you mostly find R1a in race mixed hybrid Mongoloid populations.
    Quote Originally Posted by birko19 View Post
    If we base ourselves on haplogroups we're nowhere near pure, how do you explain the R1a, R2, L, Q, N, and even some of the R1b's? Or how about explaining the I in the Lebanese population? There's no such thing as pure when it comes to haplogroups unless we're dealing with isolated groups.
    So called "purity" is really just a substitute term for homogeneity (i.e., stable breeding isolates). No such thing as "pure races" or ethnicities (Mussolini was right about that), but there are homogeneous genetic breeding isolates, and that's what most people usually mean when they discuss racial purity.

    So it's irrelevant that Assyrians have various haplogroup lineages, because most of our haplogroups are West Eurasian specific haplogroups, and these various paternal/maternal lineages have been mixing with each other for so long by now that its carriers no longer carry haplogroup-specific autosomal DNA (meaning, regardless of their haplogroups, their autosomal DNA is relatively homogeneous).

    This is why the race denying crowd is dumb when they use haplogroups as some sort of evidence for denying race.
    Quote Originally Posted by birko19 View Post
    Read what I said earlier, 10 generations away from you is 1024 ancestors, this is around 400 years ago, this haplogroup only makes up 1 out of the 1024, the deeper you go the more ancestors you have, this makes me question people's intelligence when they start basing populations on these haplogroups.
    Before questioning other peoples' intelligence, perhaps you should question your own understanding of haplogroups? Not that I'm omniscient myself when it comes to haplogroups (I don't really care that seriously about haplogroups; it gets awfully geeky when you study every DYS-value and subclade. I mean seriously, who cares about that shit except DNA nerds?), but you still have some basics to learn.

    So anyway, the fact that Anatolian pseudo-Turks carry some Y-DNA D is a testament to their minor and recent Mongoloid admixture.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2010-04-28 at 09:43.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    And R1a was brought there with Indo-European speakers (Caucasians). R1a may have "Eastern" origins but it is not an East Eurasian/Mongoloid Y-DNA.
    I think R1a is far older than Indo-European languages, so basically two different subjects.

    The Emerging Tree of West Eurasian mtDNAs.

    You don't find R1a at a high frequency in ethnic Chinese/Japanese and other Mongolid groups, you mostly find R1a in race mixed hybrid Mongoloid populations.So called "purity" is really just a substitute term for homogeneity (i.e., stable breeding isolates). No such thing as "pure races" or ethnicities (Mussolini was right about that), but there are homogeneous genetic breeding isolates, and that's what most people usually mean when they discuss racial purity.
    But once again R1a is far older than the Turks, real Turks don't exactly come from Mongols either, they're different (Even Genghis Khan had Turk enemies), they may be related but they're not the same.

    So it's irrelevant that Assyrians have various haplogroup lineages, because most of our haplogroups are West Eurasian specific haplogroups, and these various paternal/maternal lineages have been mixing with each other for so long by now that its carriers no longer carry haplogroup-specific autosomal DNA (meaning, regardless of their haplogroups, their autosomal DNA is relatively homogeneous).

    This is why the race denying crowd is dumb when they use haplogroups as some sort of evidence for denying race.Before questioning other peoples' intelligence, perhaps you should question your own understanding of haplogroups? Not that I'm omniscient myself when it comes to haplogroups (I don't really care that seriously about haplogroups; it gets awfully geeky when you study every DYS-value and subclade. I mean seriously, who cares about that shit except DNA nerds?), but you still have some basics to learn.

    So anyway, the fact that Anatolian pseudo-Turks carry some Y-DNA D is a testament to their minor and recent Mongoloid admixture.
    What I say is the truth though, don't be surprised if some of that R1a or heck even J2 in the middle east was brought by actual Mongolian looking Turks, these people came in waves from Central Asia and surely, whatever haplogroups were there did cross over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by birko19 View Post
    I think R1a is far older than Indo-European languages, so basically two different subjects.
    Sure, but there's no genetic study as far as I'm aware of, postulating highest genetic variation of Y-DNA R1a amongst ethnic groups of Mongoloid race. Hence, R1a in semi-Mongolid groups is the result of admixture rather than original mutation in indigenous population.

    2,000-year-old R1a1 west Eurasian dug up in Mongolia
    Quote Originally Posted by birko19 View Post
    But once again R1a is far older than the Turks, real Turks don't exactly come from Mongols either, they're different (Even Genghis Khan had Turk enemies), they may be related but they're not the same.
    See above.
    Quote Originally Posted by birko19 View Post
    What I say is the truth though, don't be surprised if some of that R1a or heck even J2 in the middle east was brought by actual Mongolian looking Turks, these people came in waves from Central Asia and surely, whatever haplogroups were there did cross over.
    I'm not disputing R1a came from Central Asia. What I'm saying is, it was most likely from a Caucasoid group rather than the current race-mixed Turkic populations. Keep in mind R1b is from Anatolia, so they were likely not that far off from each other. You could basically say R1a is native to the Middle East or Eurasian steppes rather than East Asia.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2010-04-28 at 10:36.
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    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    The Iranians are now also included.
    Last edited by Humanist; 2012-07-24 at 23:52.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    What I'm saying is, it was most likely from a Caucasoid group rather than the current race-mixed Turkic populations. Keep in mind R1b is from Anatolia, so they were likely not that far off from each other. You could basically say R1a is native to the Middle East or Eurasian steppes rather than East Asia.
    R1b is the other thing, while it did develop in Anatolia I'm quite positive some of it came back from Europe and mixed into the middle eastern populations (The European R1b for most part was probably developed in Spain), I'm not too familiar with some of this stuff yet but check out post #51 in by Rochefaton in this thread for more detail.

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