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Thread: Map of East European y-dna (I2 and R1a) in Greece1124 days old

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    Default Map of East European y-dna (I2 and R1a) in Greece

    This was made by Passa on Anthrogenica, and is a compilation of data from academic sources. I can ask him if anyone would like to see those, if I have access.

    This map shows the y-dna frequency, by region of Greece, that is Eastern European in origin (Slavic, Indo-European, etc).

    I2 and R1a. No region, not even the islands, are unaffected but there is much more in the north and center of the country, and parts of the Peloponnese.

    This explains why compared to Sicily, Crete, Ashkenazim, etc. they plot northeast of us.


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    Are those sub-clades really Slavic-specific, or is this admixture more ancient, something from the Bronze or Iron Age?

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    Quote Originally Posted by voron View Post
    Are those sub-clades really Slavic-specific, or is this admixture more ancient, something from the Bronze or Iron Age?
    The I2 was definitely Slavic, but the R1a was shared with both Slavs and non-Slavs. But we can assume based on regions of maximum frequency that much of it is Slavic.

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    It shows a tendency of high Slavic y-dna in the borders of Bulgaria, could be explained by mixing with Bulgarians or "Thracian" heritage.

    The reason it has a hotpot in Crete is probadly of bottleneck effect.

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    But I2 is a pretty much Balkan and not really Slavic. Seems like it would be a common ancestry to both Greece and Balkans, before R1a was brought there by Slavs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voron View Post
    But I2 is a pretty much Balkan and not really Slavic. Seems like it would be a common ancestry to both Greece and Balkans, before R1a was brought there by Slavs.
    Greeks share the same I2 subclades that are present in Poland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuelLevy View Post
    The reason it has a hotpot in Crete is probadly of bottleneck effect.
    More likely due to repopulation from the mainland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voron View Post
    But I2 is a pretty much Balkan and not really Slavic. Seems like it would be a common ancestry to both Greece and Balkans, before R1a was brought there by Slavs.
    We don't know that for sure. It could, just as easily, have been introduced by the Slavic migrations and suffered a founder effect in the Balkans. Y-DNA can be very deceiving when it comes to ancient migrations.

    I would like to see how each Greek region plots in an autosomal PCA to take any conclusions.

    If someone has a good number of samples from each region, they could calculate their Eurogenes K15 averages and place them on this map:

    http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

    If the Greeks from the areas with greater Slavic Y-DNA plot closer to the Slavic populations, that would be a good argumentation point.

    Just a though. It would be interesting to see.

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    I sincerely doubt all of the I2a and R1a in Greece is Slavic, though I have seen many Macedonian Greeks with Slavic paternal lineages.


    Quote Originally Posted by MnM View Post
    Morocco is a western lapdog.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    Those Bronze Age samples are just red herrings to distract you from the actual arrivals of populations with Semitic ancestry. Don’t take the bait by focusing on the wrong samples, lol. He is passing off Bronze Age Levantines with no evidence of strong predynastic input, as “Semites“. This way, he can flip it around and say Proto-Semitic speakers and predynastics were more or less identical to the Bronze Age Levantines sampled so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    @Semitic Duwa

    Wonder what the resident Proto-Semite has to say about this. I thought unmixed Egyptians were supposed to be Abusir with less/zero Chl?

    In your view, does this prove you wrong, or is it just a coincidence () that M1 is absent in one of the three subsamples from Abusir, and rare overall?

    And don’t change your signature now, please. I’m looking forward to you looking more and more incompetent as more aDNA is published. Wish there was a way to speed this up. But the extra wait and seeing you with your pants down every day, kinda has its own appeal, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldBedBug View Post
    I would like to see how each Greek region plots in an autosomal PCA to take any conclusions.
    It's not a neat north versus south gradient, rather one large cluster. Still with that said, the most northeastern shifted Greeks tend to be Epirotes, Macedonians, and even some Peloponnese. Island Greeks, as you know, are similar to Sicilians and Calabrese, with the same spectrum of comparatively more European vs more Near Eastern people like Sicily has.

    I have not seen a full Thracian to be able to tell, but I cannot imagine them being any different than Macedonians. The people whose results I see from Thessaloniki fall closer to Bulgarians than to Sicilians, for whatever it is worth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BoldBedBug View Post
    If someone has a good number of samples from each region, they could calculate their Eurogenes K15 averages and place them on this map
    I will compute averages later.

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