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Thread: Honour Killings not a 'Muslim' problem as many claim

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    Established Member Swarthy Brunet Kyte's Avatar
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    Default Honour Killings not a 'Muslim' problem as many claim

    It is clear honour killings are a despicable act and unacceptable be it in Assyrian, Kurdish, Arab or any other culture. The common misconception that honour killings are limited to Muslims leads people to neglect the disgraceful extent this practice has reached among Mesopotamian cultures.

    If you relied on the Islam-bashers like Michelle Malkin, Sean Hannity, Brigitte Gabriel and others, you would believe the practice of "honor killings" is typically a Muslim and "Arab" problem.

    But of course, the truth lies well beyond that simplistic and racially motivated claim.

    "Honor killings" are not only committed by Muslims and Arabs, but also by Jews and Christians, too.

    It is a gender-driven crime that occurs in many Third World nations and particularly in countries where poverty-stricken families cling to male-dominated cultural traditions.

    An act of violence that is almost always fatal, the victim is always female, the victim of a male usually either a member of the victim's family, a relative or even a family friend.

    The purpose or "justification" for the killing is to redress a dishonor that has been brought upon a family such as one involving women accused of infidelity, premarital sex, and more often than not, rumors that regardless of veracity have so embarrassed a family that even women not guilty of the allegations are none-the-less victimized.

    The crime becomes even more pernicious because the societies in which these crimes occur often condone the crimes, usually by minimizing the punishment of the killers. In many cases, the killers serve only a few months in prison.

    Tragically, those convicted of theft or corruption or even making slanderous statements against the governments or the religion, are punished far more severely, some being executed.

    Recently, an alleged "honor killing" occurred in Damascus, Syria, involving a 16-year-old girl who died at the hospital in January after she was brutally attacked by her brother. Prosecutors charged the killing was a premeditated act organized by her family who suspected her of having an affair out of wedlock, dishonoring the family.

    Zahra, according to reports, allegedly fled her family with another man who told her that her father was having an extra-marital affair. To protect her father, the daughter agreed to leave with the man.

    If convicted under Syria's "honor killing" law, the brother would only be forced to serve three months, although a prominent Syrian sheik has denounced the possibility and the crime as "un-Islamic."

    A similar killing may have occurred more than 9,000 miles away in the United States, in the city of Chicago, just this past week.

    There, an Assyrian Christian immigrant from Iran, Daryoush Ebrahimi, was charged this week with murdering his wife, his wife's sister and his mother-in-law, after they allegedly criticized him and questioned his manliness.

    Ebrahimi was denied bond in a Chicago court Monday. He reportedly told police he killed his wife, sister-in-law and mother-in-law because "they disrespected" him. Disrespect is a major motivation behind "honor killings."

    Ironically, the Ebrahimi family came to the United States in November seeking asylum from Iran. They claimed they feared persecution in Iran because they are Christians. The family was granted asylum because of the anti-Iranian hysteria whipped up by President Bush and other Islamophobes.

    Typical of male killers of women, Ebrahimi said he wanted to kill himself. He was reportedly found after the slayings by police "hitting himself" with a hammer. Despite much bleeding, Ebrahimi was treated and released from a hospital the same day.

    Police said his wife, Karmin Khooshabeh, 44, and her stepsister, Karolin Khooshabeh, 40, had been bludgeoned to death and stabbed repeatedly with a 16 inch knife. They died at the scene. Ebrahimi then walked to the home of his 60-year-old mother-in-law and killed her.

    There are approximately 100,000 Assyrians living in Chicago. Assyrians are often mistaken for "Arabs" because many speak both Arabic and Aramaic. They are a Christian minority group living primarily in Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria. Ebrahimi speaks Farsi, the language of Iran.

    The family lived in an apartment in Rogers Park, a north side neighborhood of Chicago and attended the Assyrian Church of the East, St. George Parish. A priest at the church told a local television station that the alleged killer and his now deceased wife attended a baptism at the church only a week before.

    Under American laws, the perpetrators of "honor killings" are not given special protections and Ebrahimi could face the death penalty unless a jury finds that he was "insane" at the time of the murder.

    While a convicted "honor killing" perpetrator in another country could be released after only three to six months imprisonment, it is very likely that if convicted in the Chicago slayings, Ebrahimi will spend years behind bars, if not given a death sentence.

    "Honor killings" are a problem in the Arab and Muslim World, but they are also a problem in many other countries, too.

    Rather than using these tragedies to advance political agendas, the focus should be on the criminal act rather than on the race, ethnicity or religion of the perpetrators and the victims.

    By Ray Hanania

    The Arab American News

    Copyright Arab American News Mar 3-Mar 9, 2007
    Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning Company. All rights Reserved
    http://findarticles.com/p/news-artic.../ai_n50653511/

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    I have to ask, since you are secular, why do you care about what is associated with Islam or not?

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    Well... I guess we can call it a Middle Eastern problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by Froll View Post
    I have to ask, since you are secular, why do you care about what is associated with Islam or not?
    Why wouldn't I care? Do you ignore all news about something that you don't believe in? Do you actively avoid the 'world news' buttons on news websites? Islam, especially being the majority religion in my country of origin, and a big concern in neighbouring countries is a subject of interest to me. Your apathetic view point shocks me as I have never been questioned for having an interest in daily events around the world before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyte View Post
    Why wouldn't I care? Do you ignore all news about something that you don't believe in? Do you actively avoid the 'world news' buttons on news websites? Islam, especially being the majority religion in my country of origin, and a big concern in neighbouring countries is a subject of interest to me. Your apathetic view point shocks me as I have never been questioned for having an interest in daily events around the world before.
    You are forgetting and glossing over one thing, this isn't news, this is some apologetic garbage opinion piece defending Islam.

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    "The Arab American News"

    It's clear they just want to say " See, christians do it too" by bringing up one case with a mentally ill man. It's the muslim culture, don't fool yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Froll View Post
    You are forgetting and glossing over one thing, this isn't news, this is some apologetic garbage opinion piece defending Islam.
    You are incredibly opinionated but show a complete lack of interest in the subject. An analysis informing people that honour killings are not necessarily a part of Islam and to say the least, not limited to it, is in no way an apologetic 'opinion' but a publication of facts.

    I defend Turkish Islam in some cases as it is very different to the other forms of Islam but this is not one of those cases.

    ---------- Post added 2010-05-05 at 05:12 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Othuroyo View Post
    "The Arab American News"

    It's clear they just want to say " See, christians do it too" by bringing up one case with a mentally ill man. It's the muslim culture, don't fool yourself.
    You're entitled to your opinion. But I will continue to know that it is an integral aprt of Mesopotamian culture. Yazidis also practice honour killings as you know. A culture not far from your own

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyte View Post
    It is clear honour killings are a despicable act and unacceptable be it in Assyrian, Kurdish, Arab or any other culture. The common misconception that honour killings are limited to Muslims leads people to neglect the disgraceful extent this practice has reached among Mesopotamian cultures.
    This is not a Mesopotamian problem. It's Kurdish problem, more than anything, and Kurds are not Mesopotamians in my book. Arabs do it too sometimes, but not nearly as often as Kurds (Kurds are, with good reason, infamous for killing their daughters). Assyrians rarely or never kill their daughters.

    Notable examples of Kurdish fathers killing their daughters:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fadime_Sahindal
    http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pela_Atroshi (unfortunately only available on Swedish Wiki)

    There was also this case a few years ago, something like thousand Kurds (from Yazidi tribe) stoning an innocent teenage girl to death. They weren't exactly 1,000 Kurds, but it was like the entire village throwing huge rocks on her head, completely fucking insane. The clip was available here, from the jebar site:

    http://www.aina.org/news/20070425181603.htm

    I knew you Kyte or someone like you would post this nonsense article. This so called Assyrian Christian from Iran, has been used by a few media outlets ("Arab News") to pretend honour killing is a Christian phenomenon and that it has nothing to do with Islam. But it has everything to do with Islam, because Sura 4:34 encourages such behaviour.

    I'm not even sure if he is Assyrian, but regardless of that, it's one of the only few cases of "Christian honour killing". Not like it has anything to do with his religion though, nor his honour, and the guy was mentally insane as he was violently abusing himself after he killed off all of his family. Unlike the Kurds who murder their daughters, this Ebrahimi lunatic, was mentally ill. The Kurds however, are in no way mentally ill when they murder their children. It's simply a very deeply embedded part of their sick culture. That's one of the reasons why I'd never allow my future daughters to date Kurds (the other reason being Kurds are so inbred they're ugly).

    Also, something that must be made clear here: Kurdish fathers murdering their daughters because they date innocent Swedish blokes, has nothing to do with "honour" and it's a misnomer by the media, calling it honour.

    For the record, I support honour killing. But not parents murdering their children. That has nothing to do with honour. Real honour killing is if someone murders, let's say your child, brother, mother or whatever, you find out the murderer and kill him in return. That's real honour killing; it's a matter of revenge, and it's an honourable act of defending your own blood by equal retaliation. It's what the ancient Mesopotamians called eye for an eye. There's nothing wrong with honour killing.

    In recent years though, largely because of disinformation, Kurdish parents throwing their daughters out of the balcony here in Sweden, or shooting their daughters or stoning their daughters to death in northern Iraq, has incorrectly been called "honour killing". It's very unfortunate that anti-intellectual Kurdish behaviour is associated with honour practice.

    And individuals with anti-Assyrian sentiments (or sometimes anti-Christian, as a cheap shot to pretend Christianity encourages such behaviour), have used this "Daryoush Ebrahimi" case as some sort of means to put the blame on Assyrians, and they do this because they're intellectually dishonest.

    Assyrians do not kill their children, and that's one of the reasons we despise Kurds so much, because Kurds are fanatics when it comes to killing their children. Also, this Daryoush Ebrahimi character, was clearly insane. He murdered his entire family. In no way, is he representative of Assyrians in general. His case is not common practise. Such incidents don't happen amongst Assyrians, and if they do, it's some mentally insane Assyrian who's been braind damaged for life after having lived amongst Kurds since childhood.

    In ancient Assyria, Daryoush Ebrahimi's eyes would be gouged out, his tongue would be cut off, and his skin would be flayed while he was still alive.

    That said, it's a relatively common cultural norm amongst Assyrians to disown their children if they do something outrageous, like e.g. converting to Islam, or marrying Muslims, pseudo-Turks, Kurds, Somalis and so on (not that it ever happens Assyrians and Somalis get married, as we thankfully have a religious barrier saving us from such disasters as giving our daughters away to Somalis, but I'm just saying, if an Assyrian woman married a Somali, her parents would disown her if they were honourable Assyrians). And it's the right thing to do. If your child fucks up big time, you disown your child as a matter of principle and honour, for not only disrespecting himself, but also his own parents. This applies to both sons and daughters.

    Nice try though Kyte, I see you're trying to get back at me for showing what kind of anti-free speech idiots you pseudo-Turks are, not realising that my balls are unbreakable.
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    Well thanks for showing the world how sympathetic you are of honour killings. Because ripping someones eyes out and cutting their ears off really is the way to deal with mentally ill people.

    I'm also glad you are at least being honest while so comfortably preaching genetic racism among communities and declaring that you would disown your child for marrying outside your own gene pool. It really is the modern perspective.

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    There is nothing wrong with honor killings. It's merely a different way of administering social punishments. As a Christian I'm all for it. Though seeing as how the law is what it is, disowning the offender is IMO just as good.
    Last edited by Baboon; 2010-05-05 at 14:55.
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