The Nordic Bronze Age civilisation 1800-500 B.C.

[Balder]

The Nordic Bronze Age civilisation 1800-500 B.C. - second in Europe only to Mycenae (Greece)?
Link: http://arno.daastol.com/history/NordicBronzeAge.html

In 2005, the Nordic state television companies have co-produced and broadcasted a documentary (three episodes, each one hour), called "Stenristarna " - or 'Helleristerne' - the stone carvers.

The content of the thorough documentaries is intriguing. The stone carvings along the coast line between Copenhagen-Gothenburg-Oslo + Bergen and Trondheim have for centuries ... been unintelligible. This concerns the southern carvings from 2000-500 B.C.

The northern carvings in Fennoscandinavia (North Finland and -Norway, north of the map shown above) from the period 6000-2000 B.C. are more easily interpreted as those of hunter and gatherer peoples. As opposed to the northern carvings , the southern carvings (in Denmark, Sweden and Norway) include multifarious categories of elements that show close contact to the Atlantic facade of Europe and the inner Mediterranean.

Reinterpretation indicates not only that the bronze age technology in Scandinavia was second in Europe only to Mycenae i Greece, but also that contact was particularly strong between Scandinavia and the eastern Mediterranean areas and with Greece, in particular, in addition to India, Africa, Egypt, Phoenicia, and Italy. (the later Vikings also had contact with all these culture including India). When seen as an ideographic language (like Chinese and Egyptian hieroglyphs) the carvings tell stories of humans and Gods, of technology and travels.

'Recently' researchers started to compare the carvings and housing technology, ship and sail technology, chariots, burial techniques, armament, art and jewellery etc, - with other cultures and found amazing and very close similarities:

E.g. between Bohuslän (north of Gothenburg) and Ulster (Ireland); between Fyn (Danish island) and the Villa Nova culture in the Italian Alps; between Bergen (western Norway) and Spain; between Trondheim (middle Norway) and Egypt. There are close similarities to images (wall paintings, pottery etc) in Egypt and Northern Africa, but above all the similarities are between Scandinavia and Mycenae (90 km NW of Athens). The mythology and Gods seem similar. The Phoenician god Baal could well be the Nordic god Balder.

The Swedish archaeologist Sven Nilsson suggested 100 years ago that Scandinavia was a Phoenician trading outpost. He was never taken seriously. This may be supported by the "fact" that this culture appeared suddenly, similarly disappeared suddenly, and accordingly the following civilisation was less advanced. (I wonder how the archaeologists can be so sure of this 'fact' of sudden appearance and disappearance, some 3-4000 years ago - and what is "suddenly".)

The other possibility is that Scandinavians went south, as Jordanes claims in his http://www.programmaitalia.com/sinestesiaeartesinestetica/articolo2.htmldersp/Courses/texts/jordgeti.html"]The Origin and Deeds of the Goths.[/URL]

This also fits nicely with genetic indications of a southward movement and Felice Vinci's articles "Homer in the Baltic", and Synesthesia and Homer's world, namely that the story of Homer's Illiaden actually took place in the Nordic countries (the geography described does not fit the Mediterranean but fits like a glove with the Nordic waters).

Whichever way the contact went, the most important trading item of the north seem to have been fur and above all amber, used as necklaces also by Egyptian pharaohs.

The Greeks claimed to come "from the north" - the Dorians first arrived in Greece around 1100 BC.
Many Nordic rock carvings are older, but most correspond with that period as for instance those in the Oslofjord.
A new and unknown characteristic is that the 1074 carvings south-west of Oslo at Skien, looked Celtic.
They are around 2500 to 3100 years old and were found by the local history association, Skien Historielag and the local association for ancient memorials Gymir. There are photos and movies in this article:

9000 years BC: Trade between western Norway and the Baltic
Archaeological preparations due to construction of a gas link to the UK from western Norway has again revealed old settlements, this time 11.000 years old at Aukra (between Bergen and Trondheim). 320.000 items have been found, again with amber suggesting contact with the Baltic. The archaeologists argue that the people came from Northern Germany and Denmark. http://www.dagbladet.no/magasinet/20...11/405197.html

There are now 3 known major areas of rock carvings between Copenhagen and Oslo:

Tanum (north of Gothenburg)
Sarpsborg- Skjeberg (just north of the Swedish/Norwegian border)
Skien (across the Oslofjord from Sarpsborg)

In addition there are many other finds in southern Scandinavia, but these are e.g. items, like bronze weapons, jewelery, and many huge stone coffins of an even older date - possibly from non-Indo-European peoples soon after the last ice age (8-10.000 years ago.
See e.g. www.raa.se/sites/kivik.asp

I watched the Swedish documentary "Stenristarna" some months ago, unfortunately for non-Swedish speaking I doubt that there's an English version, I am not sure though. But reading the article and following the links on, what you think about it?

I find it a lot interesting...

Out of curiosity, some simple articles about Nordic Bronze age;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age
http://stason.org/TULARC/travel/nord...ric-times.html

[Zupan]

Interesting.. It's far fetched the thing with the phoenician/meditteranean link but it sure sounds fascinating.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Reinterpretation indicates not only that the bronze age technology in Scandinavia was second in Europe only to Mycenae i Greece, but also that contact was particularly strong between Scandinavia and the eastern Mediterranean areas and with Greece, in particular, in addition to India, Africa, Egypt, Phoenicia, and Italy. (the later Vikings also had contact with all these culture including India). When seen as an ideographic language (like Chinese and Egyptian hieroglyphs) the carvings tell stories of humans and Gods, of technology and travels.

This appears quite natural to me as rivers and waterways were the highways of that time. The whole river/lake system from Fennoscandia to east Mediterranean would be the natural route. The Alps was a huge physical barrier. The Atlantic coast may have been too big and scary. But the whole northeast/southeast European area was easily navigated waterways and populated by different peoples eager to do business. So if you traveled for a day any direction you think you'd come as far as you can get, but the people would just tell you "oh, furtherdown/-up the river there's another village and they have blue pearls,white hides,cool knifes, plenty of pussy etc"

[Magavariko]

Nordic Bronze is really interesting, but Felice Vinci assumptions (Illyad taking place in the Nordic countries) are more than paranoic. Homer describes the Aegean world without any doubt.

[Polako]

The Nordic Bronze Age civilisation 1800-500 B.C. - second in Europe only to Mycenae (Greece)?

Not sure what they're tring to say in that quote, but the best early metallurgists in Europe were the Yamnaya tribes. They spread east, along with Corded Ware groups, to form the Abashevo culture, which mined and worked brozne and iron, and eventually spread to much of Eurasia as the Scythians etc.

[Balder]

Nordic Bronze is really interesting, but Felice Vinci assumptions (Illyad taking place in the Nordic countries) are more than paranoic. Homer describes the Aegean world without any doubt.

I also think it a little delirious, and the text in question may be exaggerated in some way, although Felice Vinci refers to the current region of the Baltic sea where is currently located in Estonia and Latvia, claiming to be a supposedly ancient legend of area ...

And I have no idea how he developed this theory and I doubt that is taken up seriously in academic circles, in fact what I always found it interesting, is how the ancient Greeks described the ancient Dorians.

What I find something usable in the text in question is that the region of the Nordic countries were not as isolated as many think or had claimed, recent archaeological finds and studies are proving it.

Although the region has always possessed a relatively small population, it has no meant everything to the isolation

This appears quite natural to me as rivers and waterways were the highways of that time. The whole river/lake system from Fennoscandia to east Mediterranean would be the natural route. The Alps was a huge physical barrier. The Atlantic coast may have been too big and scary. But the whole northeast/southeast European area was easily navigated waterways and populated by different peoples eager to do business. So if you traveled for a day any direction you think you'd come as far as you can get, but the people would just tell you "oh, furtherdown/-up the river there's another village and they have blue pearls,white hides,cool knifes, plenty of pussy etc"

I agree, this region (between the Fennoscandia to east Mediterranean) must have been quite busy in ancient times and connection to the south of Europe would be better made in this area across forests, villages and rivers given to the technologies of navegation of the time.

Not sure what they're tring to say in that quote, but the best early metallurgists in Europe were the Yamnaya tribes. They spread east, along with Corded Ware groups, to form the Abashevo culture, which mined and worked brozne and iron, and eventually spread to much of Eurasia as the Scythians etc.

Well, regards to the ancient Scynthians there is a crazy Danish author who connects the Scynthians with Spartan analogies in Herodotos’ texts...

Scythian and Spartan Analogies in Herodotos’ representation

[Tuohikirje]

Bronze Age in Finland is divided in eastern and western spheres of influence. Eastern influence from 1500 BC Seima-Turbino culture and 800-400 BC Ananjino culture. Bronze artifacts were manifactured, but most were imports (axes, swords, jewelry).

In western Finland some graves were built like Scandinavian graves ('hiidenkiuas' in Finnish or 'Lapland's ruins' in the eastern Finland, pile of stones built with inner circles).

[Motörhead Remember Me]

The Swedish archaeologist Sven Nilsson suggested 100 years ago that Scandinavia was a Phoenician trading outpost. He was never taken seriously. This may be supported by the "fact" that this culture appeared suddenly, similarly disappeared suddenly, and accordingly the following civilisation was less advanced. (I wonder how the archaeologists can be so sure of this 'fact' of sudden appearance and disappearance, some 3-4000 years ago - and what is "suddenly".)

I don't believe the culture disappeared. Instead I would like to think that this culture gradually fusioned with the contemporary Scandinavian hunter gatherer Pitted ware culture. The newcomers can not have represented a large migrational population that took over and continued to mediate innovations from the continent, instead they were increasinglý assimilated with the more numerous Scandinavian "aboriginals".
After all, they lived in a relative isolation this far north and the south - north traffic of peoples was not so large that they would not have had time to fusion with and assimilate into the existing population and develop an intermediate culture of their own. Eventhough they brought with them new ideas, cultures, tools, technologies from the continent, the geographical distances allowed a gradual transformation into a local culture. After all, the aboriginal had ways and customs that were deep rooted and survival of the fittest on these latitudes require an adoption to what has been proven by trial and error. The same phenomena of fusion and adoption of a more primitive culturalform with both new and old ways can be seen in Finland in the shape of the Kiukainen culture.

Take another modern example from the first English settlers in north America. Some settlements were in good pace to be naturalised in a co existence with the natives if it wasn't for continuous migration of English and their religious zealousness which worked against a peaceful co existence.

[Balder]

Here an interesting article related for the climate of period...

Nordic Bronze Age - Climate

The Nordic Bronze Age was characterized by a warm climate (which is compared to that of the Mediterranean), which permitted a relatively dense population, but it ended with a climate change consisting of deterioriating, wetter and colder climate (sometimes believed to have given rise to the legend of the Fimbulwinter) and it seems very likely that the climate pushed the Germanic tribes southwards into continental Europe.

During this time there was Scandinavian influence in Eastern Europe (and a thousand years later, the numerous East Germanic tribes that claimed Scandinavian origins (e.g. Langobards, Burgundians, Goths and Heruls) rendered Scandinavia (Scandza) the name womb of nations in Jordanes' Getica).

In fact, the Scandinavian influence on Pomerania and northern Poland from period III and onwards was so considerable that this region is sometimes included in the Nordic Bronze Age culture (Dabrowski 1989:73).

Due to the climate change and the loss of population, the nordic countries are generally described as going through a cultural recession at the end of the Bronze Age, lasting for a thousand years until the rise of another advanced civilization in the so-called Viking Age.

[Tuohikirje]

During this time there was Scandinavian influence in Eastern Europe (and a thousand years later, the numerous East Germanic tribes that claimed Scandinavian origins (e.g. Langobards, Burgundians, Goths and Heruls) rendered Scandinavia (Scandza) the name womb of nations in Jordanes' Getica).

They did not. Someone else did.

http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Scandinavia

Germanic reconstruction

The Latin names in Pliny's text gave rise to different forms in medieval Germanic texts. In Jordanes' history of the Goths (AD 551) the form Scandza is used for their original home, separated by sea from the land of Europe (chapter 1, 4).[41] According to recently published notes by Jūrate Statkutė de Rosales the Charles C. Mierow translation of the Jordanes text was supported by the earlier translation of Wilhelm Martens which was actually incorrect. This fact raised a lot of discussions between scholars that Jordanes actually wrote about peninsulas of the eastern Baltic coast: Sambia, Curonian spit, Gdansk or Danzig. This region was the largest centre of the amber trade in the ancient world. Later medieval sources, such as the writings of Adam from Bremen, the royal chronicle of Alfonso X and others support this theory. A lot of widely accepted historical facts connected with the history of Germanic peoples, Skandinavia appeared only because of a mistake or possible falsification caused by ideas of pangermanism[42] [43]. The form Scadinavia as the original home of the Langobards appears in Paulus Diaconus' Historia Langobardorum[44]; in other versions of Historia Langobardorum appear the forms Scadan, Scandanan, Scadanan and Scatenauge.[45] Frankish sources used Sconaowe and Aethelweard, an Anglo-Saxon historian, used Scani.[46][47] In Beowulf, the forms Scedenige and Scedeland are used, while the Alfredian translation of Orosius and Wulfstan's travel accounts used the Old English Sconeg.[47] This article is about the Germanic tribes. ... Scandza was the name given to Scandinavia by Jordanes, in his work Getica. ... Sambia (German: ; Polish: ; Russian: ) is a peninsula in the Kaliningrad Oblast of Russia, on the south-eastern shore of the Baltic Sea. ... Curonian Spit and Lagoon The Curonian Spit (Lithuanian: KurÅ¡ių Nerija, Russian: Куршская коса, German: Kurische Nehrung) is a 98 km long, thin, curved sand dune peninsula that separates the Curonian Lagoon from the Baltic Sea. ... For alternative meanings of Gdańsk and Danzig, see Gdansk (disambiguation) and Danzig (disambiguation) Motto: Nec temere, nec timide (Neither rashly nor timidly) Voivodship Pomeranian Municipal government Rada miasta Gdańska Mayor Paweł Adamowicz Area 262 km² Population - city - urban - density 461 400 (2003) Ranked 6th 1 035 000 1761/km² Founded... For alternative meanings of Gdańsk and Danzig, see Gdansk (disambiguation) and Danzig (disambiguation) The title given to this article is incorrect due to technical limitations. ... The Amber Road (in Lithuanian: Gintaro kelias; Polish: Szlak Bursztynowy, Jantarowy Szlak; in German: Bernsteinstraße; in Hungarian: Borostyán út, in Russian: Янтарный путь) was an ancient trade route for the transfer of amber. ... Alfonso X, El Sabio, or the Learned, (November 23, 1221 - April 4, 1284) was a king of Castile and León (1252 - 1284). ... The hard-to-translate word völkisch has connotations of folksy, folkloric, and populist. ... The Lombards (Latin Langobardi, whence comes the alternative name Longobards found in older English texts), were a Germanic people originally from Northern Europe that entered the late Roman Empire. ... Paul the Deacon (c. ... This article is about the epic poem. ... For the 10th century Bishop of Sherborne, see Alfred (bishop). ... Paulus Orosius (c. ... Wulfstan of Hedeby (Latin Haithabu) was a late 9th century traveller and trader. ... Old English (also called Anglo-Saxon[1], Old English: ) is an early form of the English language that was spoken in parts of what is now England and southern Scotland between the mid-fifth century and the mid-twelfth century. ...


The first segment in "Scandinavia" is also sometimes attributed to Norse mythology, namely the Scandinavian giantess Skaði (Skade). Norse, Viking or Scandinavian mythology comprises the indigenous pre-Christian religion, beliefs and legends of the Scandinavian peoples, including those who settled on Iceland, where most of the written sources for Norse mythology were assembled. ... A giantess is a female giant. ... In Norse mythology, Skaði ‡ is a mountain giantess, wife of the Van god Njord and thus a Van goddess herself. ...