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Thread: Brazilian Genetic Discussion129 days old

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montanini View Post
    Impact of Non-Iberian Presence in Brazil











    4140 Cities are between 100% to 81,4% Iberian, Amerindian, African
    775 Cities are between 81,4% to 62,75% Iberian, Amerindian, African
    292 Cities are between 62,75% to 44% Iberian, Amerindian, African
    279 Cities are between 44% to 25,5% Iberian, Amerindian, African
    79 Cities are between 25,5% to 7% Iberian, Amerindian, African


    PD: There are some examples of people with 2 Non-Iberian Surnames with Colonial admixed ancestry yes, example: Andressa Urach (but she is 50% German, plus I bet maybe 12,5% or 25% Italian), but there other examples of people with 2 Iberian surnames with over 50% Non-Iberian heritage. Example of a person with 2 Portuguese Surnames with No-Portuguese admix the member of Apricity LESM (37,5% Italian) and I know many examples here, out that many people with Italian, Spanish and German changed their surnames, either by the facility like many Spanish or for the campaign of nationalization realized;


    http://www.ipea.gov.br/portal/images...Ds/td_2229.pdf Post #2


    Particular Estimative







    About Curitiba, these are the estimatives for the RM (~35%) and based on this study (the only that I made it for all the RM), but I find again the other test from Curitiba that yes it is old and based on Blood (so the total of Euro input are not that accurate), but for me, according my observations and perceptions, the % of European components/contributions for the city is very accurate, in the fact that Italian here is the first (non-Iberian component) and then German little more than Polish/Ukranian, the rest exist, Dutch, British, French, but they are like <2%, perhaps little more than 2% if include the Spanish (there are some Galicians here and some Paulistas/Northern Paranaenses that perhaps are like 5%-10% Spanish maybe), but still I agree with Italian >> German > or = Polish/Ukranian.

    So,

    HLA class I polymorphism, as characterised by PCR-SSOP, in a Brazilian exogamic population.


    http://docslide.us/documents/hla-cla...-exogamic.html



    Result:




    If you can realize in this sample 150 'Whites', 158 'Pardos' and 40 'Blacks' the Euro component was 62,5% from the Portuguese/Iberians, 20% from the Italians, 10% from the Germans and 7,5% from the Polish.

    150 'Whites' with 94,4% Euro blood (av)
    158 'Pardos' with 57% Euro Blood (av)
    40 Blacks with 25% Euro Blood

    OK but this sample had more Blacks and Pardos than the Census from the city Racial Census of Curitiba:


    http://www.ippuc.org.br/nossobairro/...ua%20Verde.pdf

    and also despite some wrong things like the more African component in Pardos and Blacks (like 20%) and the less Native American component, I would say something like 4 or 5% less, ok but whatever let's go...

    The total Euro input in that sample would be
    150 'Whites' x 0.944 = 141,6 Euro
    158 'Pardos' x 0.572 = 90,4 Euro
    40 Blacks x 0.25 - 10 Euro
    Total 242 Euro ==> 151,2 Portuguese (62,5%), 48,4 Italian (20%), 24,2 German (10%) and 18,2 Polish (7,5%)
    but the non-Iberian elements are not very well distributed, if the Euro component of Pardos and Blacks is about 85% (could be more imo) Portuguese, then

    Pardos 90,4 Euro (76.85 Iberian, 7.3 Italian, 3,65 German, 2.6 Polish)
    Blacks 10 Euro (8.5 Portuguese, 0.8 Italian, 0.4 German, 0.3 Polish)


    Whites 141 Euro less the Euro components of Pardos and Blacks = 65.65 Portuguese, 40.3 Italian, 20,15 German and 15.3 Polish)[/B] So Whites are ~ (relative of their Euro components) 46,5% Portuguese, 28,5% Italian, 14,25% German 11.75% Polish.

    If I put the Whites (78,9%) from Curitiba as 85% Euro, the Pardos(16,8%) as 69% Euro and Blacks (2.85%) as 39% Euro (similar to Test Candela), then I would say that Curitiba is about 79,7% Euro (67,15% from 'Whites' and 12,55% from 'Non-Whites')

    67.15 x 0.465 + 12.55 x 0.85 = 41.9% Portuguese
    67.15 x 0.285 + 12.55 x 0.08 = 20.15% Italian
    67.15 x 0.1425 + 12.55 x 0.04 = 10.07% German
    67.15 x 0.1125 + 12.55 x 0.03 = 7.6% Polish

    or ~42% Iberian and 38% Italian, German, Polish, 19% Amerindian and African, 1% Japanese.

    Btw, I feel based on other results (Bambui, Baependi, Pelotas ...) that the Euro component could be little more than 79,7% Euro, more like 83% (and 9,5% African, 7,5% Amerindian) as a whole because Curitiba is more immigrant than these cities, more self-identified 'White' and less self-idenfied Black. (just compare it with Baependi) and even if it is not 38% Non-Iberian, it is very very likely over 30% (both studies in fact put Curitiba over 30%, "blood test" and Ancestry for Surnames), so 30%-35% seems reasonable for me.

    Gigafoto de Curitiba: http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebo...megafoto2.html

    Btw, Southern Brazil as a whole is easily more immigrant than Curitiba according this study that I agree.

    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-02-13 at 05:49.

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    ^^

    There is some thing that I forget sometimes, for example São Paulo state (1.0 could be somewhere about 2% Japanese and Paraná about 1% - 1,5% Japanese.

    1.232.000 in São Paulo
    232.000 in Paraná
    136.000 in the rest of the country.

    ~1.6k Japanese

    http://www.cenb.org.br/articles/display/293

    And most of them still are fully or at least 50% Japanese (at least here in Paraná).

    Some Japanese surnames:
    Spoiler: 

    Sato
    São Paulo 1855 (76,1%)
    Paraná 356 (14,6%)
    Rest of Brazil 226 (9,3%)
    Total 2437
    http://www.locatemyname.com/brazil/Sato

    Yamamoto
    São Paulo 1172 (81,3%)
    Paraná 163 (11,3%)
    Rest of Brazil 106 (7,4%)
    Total 1441
    http://www.locatemyname.com/brazil/Yamamoto

    Suzuki
    Sao Paulo 994 (74,8%)
    Paraná 223 (16,8%)
    Rest of Brazil 111 (8,4%)
    Total 1328
    http://www.locatemyname.com/brazil/Suzuki

    Kato
    São Paulo 510 (72,3%)
    Paraná 112 (15,9%)
    Rest of Brazil 83 (11,8%)
    Brazil 705
    http://www.locatemyname.com/brazil/Kato

    Tanaka
    São Paulo 1240 (80,2%)
    Paraná 203 (13,1%)
    Rest of Brazil 102 (6,6%)
    Total 1545
    http://www.locatemyname.com/brazil/Tanaka

    http://forebears.io/japan


    I put some of the most common Japan surnames (and Japanese surnames are somewhere more frequent than many others), the result would be according this some surnames (shouldn't be far from it) in that: 77% of people with Japanese surname are in São Paulo, 14,5% in Paraná and 8,5% in the rest of the country.

    or

    1.232.000 in São Paulo
    232.000 in Paraná
    136.000 in the rest of the country.

    ~1.600.000 Japanese-Brazilians

    http://www.cenb.org.br/articles/display/293

    And if Brazil is (0,75%) 0,7% to 0,8% Japanese as a whole like many estimatives (surnames and other American study) put.




    Only Japanese from SP represent for ~0,5775 (0,58%) of all contributions of Brazil, Japanese from Paraná 0,11% (0,11%) and the rest of country 0,06% (0,06%)

    SP represent 21,7% of Brazil, (0,58 / 21,7)
    Paraná represent 5,455% of all Brazil (0.11 / 0.5455)
    ftp://ftp.ibge.gov.br/Estimativas_de...6_20160913.pdf

    So the total Japanese input of SP would be like 2,7% and for Paraná 2%. And my opinion is that it can be correct or then a little less like 2% for SP and 1,5% for Paraná since other states also claim to have Japanese ancestry, but prob. they lost the surname due to the mixing since they are a tiny minority in those places, still 1,9% and 1,5% of Paulistas and Paranaenses are self-identified Japanese-Brazilians and is in that moment that you can see the SP input in Paraná (cities like Maringá and Londrina colonized for Paulistas are like 3,5% Asian (https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londri...3o_.C3.A9tnica, https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maring...3o_.C3.A9tnica and Curitiba 1,32%).

    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imigra...sil#Demografia

    Remember, "brute" numbers... 343.441 Japanese came to Brazil (most of them between 1910 and 1930)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...zil#Statistics
    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-02-13 at 14:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldBedBug View Post
    This map gives us the impression that southern Rio Grande do Sul is as Black as some northern areas of the country, which is not correct.

    Compare it to this map, which shows the frequency of Blacks and "Pardos":



    Still, it is true that, at least out of Rio Grande do Sul and Santa Catarina, the southern area of RGS is the least European. Pelotas is a good representative for these southern areas of the state, which have not been very influenced by the European immigration from Germany, northern Italy, etc.

    I am actually surprised to see how European Pelotas scores, because their inhabitants seem very dark if you are used to the population of northern RGS, which is where I am from. I see a lot more people I consider "Black" there than I normally see up here, indeed. Excluding Haitian and African immigrants, obviously. Also, perhaps the Iberian element helps them appear "darker" to me, since Iberians are on average more southern looking than the northern Italians and Germans I see more often. Northern Italians from around here look fairly Central European, although obviously the German areas are lighter and taller on average.

    It would be really interesting to see admixture tests coming from these northern and more European-influenced towns and cities of RGS.

    These studies from Porto Alegre and Pelotas are way more representative for the southern/colonial part of the state, rather than the northern/German-Italian part in my opinion.

    If a city like Caxias do Sul were tested, easily some 50% of the population would be completely European (mostly of Northern Italian/Venetian origin). If we could travel to the past, probably even more, as the city is very developed, and has been receiving many migrants.

    Take a look at this regional map of the state:




    Areas 4 and 5 are good candidates to the most European region of Brazil. About half of the contribution from areas 1 and 2 would be of German/Italian stock, the second most European area of the state. Area 3 would be mostly of colonial/Brazilian origin, but with some German/Italian influence. Areas 6 and 7 would have received only minor German/Italian influence, if any at all.
    Hey maybe you like to see this post:

    Posted by BirdMan in Apricity Forum

    Some country specific graphs from different studies showing the same thing as above.

    Various cities in Brazil (Pelotas, Rio Grande do Sul; Salvador, Bahia; Bambuí, Minas Gerais). Pretty interesting results, espescially the notable Northern Euro influence in Pelotas.



    The Rio Grande do Sul (Pelotas*) European component tended to plot between Iberians and Northern Europeans, but there was a lot of diversity. A significant group clustered with Northern Euros and some with Italians, for example.
    Commentary ==> If you analyze all people from the city it could be prob. still more Northern European.

    The Bahia European component plotted almost exactly with Iberians, with very little diversity. Commentary ====> Mostly are Portuguese, but because the test was realized only in Favelas and most of them were Negros, but yes at least 95% of Euro from Salvador should be from Portugal AND Spain. (there is some Spanish influence among upper class there)

    The Minas Gerais Euro component was also close to Iberia, with perhaps some drift (likely the result of a small founding population). Also interesting is the group that clusters with Middle Easterners. Commentary ====> Brazil received many Middle Eastern/Lebanese mostly in Southeast Brazil, Paraná and maybe Center-Western as far I know, so there is OK.

    Btw, there is my estimation about the Non-Iberian input in some cities and Places based on Ancestry/Surnames study:



    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-02-13 at 22:23.

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    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...a-Chile-Brazil

    Post 46 http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...e-Brazil/page5

    I was thought that Southern Brazil was 5% Eastern Europe (Ukranian and Polish mainly). Paraná is prob. the most Eastern European state of Latin America and I think Center-South Paraná is maybe about 7,5-12.5% Eastern Europe and the Paraná as a whole maybe 7,5%. Curitiba is very Italian to be more Polish/Ukranian and German than the rest of the Center-South Paraná, little more non-Iberian.

    Of these 1,3% Slavic contribution, I guess some 0,9 comes from the Polish, 0,3% from the Ukranian and 0,1% from the rest. Prob. 80% of Poles are in Southern Brazil, prob. some 60% of Ukranians are in Southern Brazil also. and the rest prob. half, then I would say that ~70 to 75% of Eastern European input in Brazil are in Southern Brazil. Prob. some 40% only in Paraná. Then Paraná is prob. about 10% Eastern. European and the South of Brazil, ~ 6,5%.

    70-75% x 1.3 = 0.9425/14,3 (Southern Brazil) = 6,6% (~6,5%)

    Germany similar case, almost 80% of the German input of Brazil (~77,5), are from the South, (~65%) only in the SC and RS, according some Surname Database, if the all the German input of Brazil is about 4% to 5%, then the Southern Brazil is about 21,6% to 27% German (and Austrian/Swiss-German) or little more than 24%. Paraná about almost 10% to 12% German. SC and RS about 28,6% to 35,7%.

    So the total of German + Polish/Ukranian could be according these data about 30,5% of All Southern Brazil contribution.

    However If we use this data, more conservative, part of the same study of the table "Predicted Ancestry":



    If Brazil is 0,8 East Europe and ~72,5% is from the South, then Southern Brazil according this data is prob. about 4% Eastern Europe. It is possible too.

    And if Brazil is 3,3% German and 77,5%¨is from the South, then Southern Brazil is prob. about 18% German.

    Both German and Eastern Euro input combine to 22% of all ancestry from Southern Brazil.

    I don't know the truth but I'm almost sure that the Polish/Ukranian/East Euro + German/Austrian contribution is somewhere between 22% to 33,5% of all Southern Brazilian components. Before I had put the German contribution at 21% and the Eastern European contribution at 5%. The other big component Non Iberian, the Italian, is prob. at least 15%.
    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-02-15 at 19:52.

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    About this post from Birdman.

    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...archive/page84

    First Study I already explain this in the first page (due to the low markers they overstimate the Amerindian and African component)

    Second I already posted it too, the % of Euro blood of all the three group (Pardos, Blacks and Whites) are all considerable (about 6-8%) less Euro than the rest of studies from Southeast for the same categories. It is the less Euro test and I think it could be because of the Low-Markers or whatever.

    Third, strange study however I agree that Brasilia is proba. 70 Euro / 20/23 African / 7/10 Amerindian, the results is pretty homogeneous for being for Brazil. I don't think Whites from Brasilia are just 72% Euro or Blacks 63% Euro and only 27 African. Strange results. This city (Brasilia) has many Whites from Southeast and South, and mixed/Black people of Bahia and whatever in North / Northeast. Even if prob. more Northeast than Southeast/South, the variation is not only like 9% between these groups, for sure this is BS.

    There is a Gigafoto from Brasilia, I don't think all people here are 'Pardos' with few Whites and few Blacks. Even if Pardos are predominant, the city is diverse.

    http://gigapan.com/gigapans/130887

    http://gigapan.com/gigapans/130888
    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-02-21 at 10:33.

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    Btw, I don't think Brazil is 68-72 European, no fucking way.

    IMO, would be something like:

    67,25% European/Caucasoid (47% Portuguese, 3% Spanish, 11% Italian, 4,5% German, 1% Eastern Europe, 0,75% Lebanese)
    0,75% East Asian
    19% African
    13% Amerindian



    But also I don't think SP is only 63%, Southern Brazil 74% Euro as a whole and Cuba 75%+ Euro like some people think.


    I've been seeing a lot of genetic tests in the Northeast for example, and most tests with many markers put the Northeast near 60% Euro, and I do not think it's too out of it either, unless it's a test with few markers or performed In the Favelas. I posted at the bottom of page 6, page 6 save for mistake, a test with many many markers performed in 6 Northeastern cities in different states there, and although the Study is no longer available for free the average European contribution there was 61% Euro, and one realized in Favelas from Ceará was 57% Euro.

    Ceará, for example, has two genetic studies, one with an average of 70% and the other with 48%. But all Brazilians know that this state is more European than Bahia for example, especially in relation to the Reconcavo Baiano / Salvador. So why should I take into account the less European result if a study in the favelas of Salvador shows that even there the European component was over 40% and a little more in the middle class has already risen to 50% with a test on the inside of Bahia rising to 60% Euro. In my opinion is that 70% for Ceará makes much more sense than 48%. Prob. not 70% but who knows about 60% or just little?

    The results vary a lot, some are biased, some are realized in Public Hospital or even in Favelas, most with few markers. But there are some tendencies. If Northeast is 60% Euro and I believe, How can São Paulo be 63% European? or Rio 55% European? Northeast is 95-99% Colonial and always was less European than Southern/Southeast states, always and it is prob. about 60% Euro.


    These places marked a great number of times more than 10% of Euro immigrants in their population. The city of Rio always had 20-30% of European immigrants living in the city in its time, outside of the colonial White population.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montanini View Post
    Other point that many people don't pay attention is that the number of 'Pardos/Mulattos/Whatever' in these states were bigger than the Black population and the Pardo group is normally much more European than the Blacks/Morenos (#53: http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...scussion/page6).

    Compare these 4 States (1872) with Cuba (1860) for example:



    Blacks: Cuba (35,77%), SP (20%), RS (18,19%), PR (10,41%), SC (9%)
    Whites: SC (79%), RGS (59,5%), PR (55%), SP (52%), Cuba (51%)


    The huge number of Blacks for Cuba is normal because they received far more slaves proportionally than these Brazilian states, and then they still continued to receive many Haitians and Jamaicans after: (#115: http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...ck-quot/page12)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanis...y_20th_Century
    [...] Other results show that between 1902 and 1931, 780,400 (60.8%) were from Spain, 197,600 (15.4%) from Haiti, 115,600 (9.0%) from Jamaica and 190,300 (14.8%) other countries. [...]

    São Paulo for example, I believe that it didn't received more Africans or Jamaicans/Haitians after 1888 https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lei_%C3%81urea (I don't even know if after 1872 to speak the truth), and it had ~20% of European population in some census end XIX - early XX.

    The impact of the immigration in these states was clear, [...]Clevelário's conclusions are as following: considering hypothesis 1 (unrealistically low), the Population of Immigrant Origin in 1980 would be of 14,730,710 people, or 12.38% of the total population. Considering hypothesis 2 (based on Neiva), it would be of 17,609,052 people, or 14.60% of the total population. Considering hypothesis 3 (based on Mortara, and considered most realistic), it would be of 22,088,829 people, or 18.56% of the total population. Considering hypothesis 4 (no return at all), the Population of Immigrant origin would be of 29,348,423 people, or 24.66% of the total population.[52] Clevelário believes the most probable number to be close to 18%, higher than Mortara's previous estimate of 1947.[...]

    If the impact of the European immigration was ~18% for all Brazil, the impact in the South/SP was bigger than that except maybe for SC (but both PR and SC received many Euro-migrants from SP, SC and RS in the case of PR and from the RS in the case of Santa Catarina), look:

    1900-1920

    Credit CMV88

    Brazil, 6,6% (1900) and 5,2% (1920)

    SP, 20,9% (1900) and 17,9% (1900)
    PR, 12,1% (1900) and 8,5% (1920)
    RS, 11,3% (1900) and 6,2% (1920)
    SC, 6,6% (1900) and 3,5% (1920)

    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imigra...a.C3.A7.C3.A3o

    If you take all these data into account, doesn't make sense that pre-Northeast São Paulo (#29 http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...scussion/page3) be more or at least as European as Cuba Pre-Castro? In my opinion, yes.






    ^^
    If the South is 74% Euro and 15% African like in this test why Pelotas, 80-85% Colonial city imo (Prob. the South is just half Colonial), with 16% Self-identified Blacks (only 3,5% of Southern Brazilians are self-identified Blacks save mistake) and it is only 16-14% African? And half the city was made up of slaves back to 1835, no other Southern city came close to it. And remember Pelotas in the Census is only 9% Black, not 16% Black like in that test, so the African component is really lower (my estimative is close to 13%).
    So how could the South be 15% African if Pelotas, a more colonial city with greater past of slavery and with much more Blacks than the average for the other cities from the South is less than 15% African? I don't understand, maybe North of Paraná could be near Pelotas in that theme, the rest I'm sure is less African and many if not most less Amerindian as well. Remember that the Pelotas test specified the racial self-identification and had many markers also, the results were somewhere 76,1% to 77,X% Euro, 14,X% to 15,8% African and 7,X to 8% Amerindian, but with 16% Self-identified Blacks.

    I've posted several crowds at football stadiums, I still do not understand why many countries in Latin America seem less European than Brazil in these circumstances? I would really like to see an image of Cuba in this same situation. I'm going to have a big surprise if they appear to be more European than us in the same position, for example, even though I think they could be about 74,5% Euro or even more as many people think and I also.


    http://www.gremio360.com.br

    http://globoesporte.globo.com/rs/fut...beira-rio.html

    http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebo...megafoto2.html

    http://www.clicrbs.com.br/megafoto/j...247283&order=1

    http://www.clicrbs.com.br/megafoto/j...879690&order=1

    http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/130278

    http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/156208

    http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/86955

    http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/86954

    http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/47778

    http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/77434

    http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/129249

    Of course there is a possibility of the South and São Paulo be 74% and 63%, but we are talking about 10% of chance or less imo.
    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-02-21 at 13:56.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montanini View Post
    Btw, I don't think Brazil is 68-72 European, no fucking way.

    IMO, would be something like:

    67,25% European/Caucasoid (47% Portuguese, 3% Spanish, 11% Italian, 4,5% German, 1% Eastern Europe, 0,75% Lebanese)
    0,75% East Asian
    19% African
    13% Amerindian



    But also I don't think SP is only 63%, Southern Brazil 74% Euro as a whole and Cuba 75%+ Euro like some people think.


    I've been seeing a lot of genetic tests in the Northeast for example, and most tests with many markers put the Northeast near 60% Euro, and I do not think it's too out of it either, unless it's a test with few markers or performed In the Favelas. I posted at the bottom of page 6, page 6 save for mistake, a test with many many markers performed in 6 Northeastern cities in different states there, and although the Study is no longer available for free the average European contribution there was 61% Euro, and one realized in Favelas from Ceará was 57% Euro.

    Ceará, for example, has two genetic studies, one with an average of 70% and the other with 48%. But all Brazilians know that this state is more European than Bahia for example, especially in relation to the Reconcavo Baiano / Salvador. So why should I take into account the less European result if a study in the favelas of Salvador shows that even there the European component was over 40% and a little more in the middle class has already risen to 50% with a test on the inside of Bahia rising to 60% Euro. In my opinion is that 70% for Ceará makes much more sense than 48%. Prob. not 70% but who knows about 60% or just little?

    The results vary a lot, some are biased, some are realized in Public Hospital or even in Favelas, most with few markers. But there are some tendencies. If Northeast is 60% Euro and I believe, How can São Paulo be 63% European? or Rio 55% European? Northeast is 95-99% Colonial and always was less European than Southern/Southeast states, always and it is prob. about 60% Euro.


    These places marked a great number of times more than 10% of Euro immigrants in their population. The city of Rio always had 20-30% of European immigrants living in the city in its time, outside of the colonial White population.









    ^^
    If the South is 74% Euro and 15% African like in this test why Pelotas, 80-85% Colonial city imo (Prob. the South is just half Colonial), with 16% Self-identified Blacks (only 3,5% of Southern Brazilians are self-identified Blacks save mistake) and it is only 16-14% African? And half the city was made up of slaves back to 1835, no other Southern city came close to it. And remember Pelotas in the Census is only 9% Black, not 16% Black like in that test, so the African component is really lower (my estimative is close to 13%).
    So how could the South be 15% African if Pelotas, a more colonial city with greater past of slavery and with much more Blacks than the average for the other cities from the South is less than 15% African? I don't understand, maybe North of Paraná could be near Pelotas in that theme, the rest I'm sure is less African and many if not most less Amerindian as well. Remember that the Pelotas test specified the racial self-identification and had many markers also, the results were somewhere 76,1% to 77,X% Euro, 14,X% to 15,8% African and 7,X to 8% Amerindian, but with 16% Self-identified Blacks.

    I've posted several crowds at football stadiums, I still do not understand why many countries in Latin America seem less European than Brazil in these circumstances? I would really like to see an image of Cuba in this same situation. I'm going to have a big surprise if they appear to be more European than us* in the same position, for example, even though I think they could be about 74,5% Euro or even more as many people think and I also.
    * Southern Brazilians, like I think really think that Cuba is ~75% Euro, they are easily more European than Brazilians, especially if Brazil is only ~60,5% European.



    But there is one point... all people in this sample are at least 4,25% African and Amerindian, while in fact a large portion of the Brazilian population does not have indigenous or black blood in these values.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...004&size=large

    There is a test realized mainly in the Colonial areas of RS, Bahia and Rondonia and still you can see that 21,5% of the sample does not have a drop of black blood (I think it could be more than half, an in some case easily, in most of Southern Brazil areas, for example), 64% have less than 4,2% African blood and also many does not have native blood and if they have is like irrelevant, 39,3% of the sample have less than 4,2% of Native blood. Again this test was realized mainly in colonial areas and also in Rondonia (very Amer. state) and Bahia (very African state).



    Database: S2 Table: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...e.0169287.s002

    That is why I think the ~8,5% non-White blood (Amerindian and African) in that test is biased perhaps due to the few markers used.


    Btw, I can see Southern Brazil and SP being 74% and 63% and Brazil being 60,5% Euro. Latin America, all things can happen.
    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-02-22 at 10:16.

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    @975
    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...archive/page98

    Good post.

    Yep, 70-71% for RMSP is not far from the true actually, of course the RMSP is only about 60% 'White' not 65% 'White' but this test was realized in a Public Hospital (where there are many people with Northeast background), if it was analyzed in Private Hospital like Sirio Libanese or other, the result could be different with the same % of Whites (prob. 4-5% Euro more), but since SP is not 65% 'White' but 60% White and the prob. euro ancestry could be the Private+Public/2. SP seems right being 71% Euro. Actually I agree, SP received too many Northeast people, and there many of them with full Northeast Background and "Whites" w/ Mixed Parentes. Also the Black influence is very notable in SP city (and even the SP state) despite of the myth of the most amerindian state from Southeast, they are much more African than Amerindian. (Most GT put SP between 6% and 8% Amerindian), close to the reality in fact. Of course there are many niggas from SP who thinks that the State of SP is close to the South and not from Rio or Minas, but after received tons of Baianos and other mainly mixed population they are closer to other Southeast regions than even Paraná (with excpt of Northern Paraná, they are like people from Interior of SP, but it is the less Euro region of Paraná too).

    I would say that:

    SP State is prob. about 73% or 74% European (9% East Asian/Amerindian and 17%/18% African).
    Rio, MG and Espirito Santo about 68% European (7% Amerindian and 25% African)

    PR about close to 80% in fact.
    RS about 83%/84%.
    and SC about 88%/89%.

    SC is hard to define there are still many 100% Europeans there.

    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-03-08 at 11:12.

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    If all 90%+ Europeans from Argentina (~14 millions) immigrated to Southern Brazil, then us could be very close to 90% Euro as a whole, since the average of 90%+ Europeans is ~96,5% European (CANDELA w/ database), and Southern Brazil imo is about 82,5% European,

    29,5 ==== 82,5% European
    14 === 96,5% European

    43,5 == 87% European, very close to Santa Catarina and w/ ~30 millions of people over 90% European (69% of all people), but even though that number looks impressive and 14 million almost-European people is a lot. The total European ancestry changed only 4.5%. That was I talking about, 5% means a lot of difference after all.

    Ditto, I would say that Argentina, São Paulo state and Southern Brazil has a similar number of Whites (90-100% European), about ~15 million (+-2). Argentina more Italian and Spanish, SP more Italian, Portuguese and Spanish and Southern Brazil more German, Italian and Portuguese.

    In the rest of Brazil Whites do not surpass another 15 million people, imo. In Uruguay they are like 1.5-2 million only.

    So, if Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay together have only 62 million people over 90% European, maybe 65 w/ Cuba. Probably all Hispanic American doesn't have more than 25 million people 90% or more European. And Latin American (~70 at max), compared with United States (200-210 millions) it is almost nothing.

    Latin America: ~70 million Whites (11%) and most of them being less than 98% European, but all over 90% of course.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America
    Anglo-America: ~230 million Whites (64%) and most of them being more than 98% European, most prob being 100% European.
    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-03-08 at 17:04.

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