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Thread: Map of R-L617233 days old

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    Default Map of R-L617

    I made a map of distribution of people with my subclade, R1b1a1a2a1a2a2a (DF27>L617):

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L617/



    I've counted several dozen surnames associated with L617. It seems that families who carry L617 originate from Cornwall (seven families, more than in any other region or country), Poland-Lithuania, the Basque Country, Welsh Marches, Cambridgeshire, Northumberland, Aragon, Asturias, Scotland, Brittany, French Flanders, Ile-de-France, Belgium, Hessen (in Germany), Somerset, Oxfordshire, Essex, Kent, London, Yorkshire, Cumbria, Scotland, Durham, Devon, Isle of Man. There are also families of colonial American background (in Virginia and Pennsylvania since the 1600s) who carry L617.

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    Cool, can you make maps like this one for other haplogroups as well, or just R1b?
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    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Cool, can you make maps like this one for other haplogroups as well, or just R1b?
    I can, but I made this one first because it is my own subclade.

    I'm sure many similar maps were already made by others before.
    Ancient R1b-DF27 sample:
    ~2431-2150 BC, Bell Beaker, Quedlinburg
    Ancient samples of W6a:
    ~3500-2700 BC, Yamnaya, Lopatino II
    ~3260-2630 BC, Corded Ware, Plinkaigalis
    ~2566-2477 BC, Corded Ware, Esperstedt

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    Some people think that L617 originated in Iberia and expanded from there to the British Ilses and to Eastern-Central Europe. But I tend to think that it originated in East-Central Europe and later expanded to the British Isles and to Iberia. The fact that older and more basal branches of L617 can be found in the East rather supports my point of view. All Iberians and Brits with L617 belong to younger, more derived branches.

    Distribution of L617 also seems to correlate with Lugus-related Celtic ethnonyms and toponyms:

    Lugidunon / Lugidunum (= Legnica or Głogów, in Poland)
    Luguvalium (= Carlisle in Cumbria, in northern England)
    Lugudunum / Lugdunum (= Lyon, in Rhône-Alpes, France)
    Lugdunum Batavorum (= Leiden, in Zuid-Holland, the Netherlands)
    Lugdunum Convenarum (= Saint-Bertrand-de-Comminges)

    Ethnoses called Lugii (later Lugiorum nomen - the Lugian federation), Lugi, Luggones and Lougei:

    1) Poland:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugii

    The Lugii (or Legii, Lugi, Lygii, Ligii, Lugiones, Lygians, Ligians, Lugians, or Lougoi) were a large tribal confederation mentioned by Roman authors living in ca. 100 BC–300 AD in Central Europe, north of the Sudetes mountains in the basin of upper Oder and Vistula rivers, covering most of modern south and middle Poland (regions of Silesia, Greater Poland, Mazovia and Little Poland).
    2) Britain:

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...lemy/2/2*.html

    from the Lemannonis bay as far as the Varar estuary are the Caledoni, and above these is the Caledonian forest, from which toward the east are the Decantae, and next to these the Lugi extending to the Cornavi boundary, and above the Lugi are the Smertae; below Caledonia are the Vacomagi, among whom are the following towns
    3) Iberia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astures#Origins

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Ro...ninsula#Celtic

    The Transmontani, placed between the Navia River and the central massif of the Picos de Europa, comprised the Cabarci, Iburri, Luggones, Paesici, Paenii, Saelini, Vinciani, Viromenici, Brigaentini and Baedunienses; the Cismontani comprised the Amaci, Cabruagenigi, Lancienses, Lougei, Tiburi, Orniaci, Superatii, Gigurri, Zoelae and Susarri (which dwelled around Asturica Augusta, in the Astura river valley, and was the main Astur town in Roman times). Prior to the Roman conquest in the late 1st century BC, they were united into a tribal federation with the mountain-top citadel of Asturica (Astorga) as their capital.
    Lugus was a Celtic god of intelligence, art, crafts, truth and light.



    I guess that L617 was an eastern Bell Beaker marker or an eastern La Tène marker (or both):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...enturies_BC.29
    Ancient R1b-DF27 sample:
    ~2431-2150 BC, Bell Beaker, Quedlinburg
    Ancient samples of W6a:
    ~3500-2700 BC, Yamnaya, Lopatino II
    ~3260-2630 BC, Corded Ware, Plinkaigalis
    ~2566-2477 BC, Corded Ware, Esperstedt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    In the book Germania (43:3), Tacitus mentions the Lugii as "Legii," writing that they were divided into many tribes ('civitates'), of which he mentions the five most powerful: Harii, Helveconae, Manimi, Helisii and Nahanarvali.


    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    According to John Lindow, Andy Orchard, and Rudolf Simek connections are commonly drawn between the Harii and the Einherjar of Norse mythology; those that have died and gone to Valhalla ruled over by the god Odin, preparing for the events of Ragnarök.[2][3][4] Lindow says that regarding the theorized connection between the Harii and the Einherjar, "many scholars think there may be basis for the myth in an ancient Odin cult, which would be centered on young warriors who entered into an ecstatic relationship with Odin" and that the name Harii has been etymologically connected to the -herjar element of einherjar.[3] Simek says that since the connection has become widespread, "one tends to interpret these obviously living armies of the dead as religiously motivated bands of warriors, who led to the formation of the concept of the einherjar as well as the Wild Hunt".
    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    The Wild Hunt is a European folk myth involving a ghostly or supernatural group of huntsmen passing in wild pursuit.
    (...)
    The concept of the Wild Hunt was first documented by the German folklorist Jacob Grimm, who first published it in his 1835 book Deutsche Mythologie.[12] It was in this work that he popularised the term Wilde Jagd ("Wild Hunt") for the phenomenon.


    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2017-03-23 at 10:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post


    I guess that L617 was an eastern Bell Beaker marker or an eastern La Tène marker (or both):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...enturies_BC.29
    I wonder if these supposedly R1b Lugii from Poland could be "French-like"/Baskoid atosomally a la Hungarian Bronze Age samples?

    EDIT. A legthy discussion of the Lugii.

    EDIT2: A trail of toponyms left by Lugii migration from Lugansk.

    EDIT3: Hic sunt Lugii.

    EDIT4: Two Lugii made famous by Sienkiewicz - Ligia and Ursus:

    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2017-03-23 at 10:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    Two Lugii made famous by Sienkiewicz - Ligia and Ursus
    Lugius (of the Lugii?) and Boiorix (of the Boii?) also fought against Romans:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugius

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiorix

    They probably joined the Cimbri during their migration towards the south?
    Ancient R1b-DF27 sample:
    ~2431-2150 BC, Bell Beaker, Quedlinburg
    Ancient samples of W6a:
    ~3500-2700 BC, Yamnaya, Lopatino II
    ~3260-2630 BC, Corded Ware, Plinkaigalis
    ~2566-2477 BC, Corded Ware, Esperstedt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Lugius (of the Lugii?) and Boiorix (of the Boii?) also fought against Romans:
    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Bohemia (Czech: Čechy;[1] German: About this sound Böhmen (help·info); Polish: Czechy; French: Bohême; Latin: Bohemia; Italian: Boemia) is the westernmost and largest historical region of the Czech lands in the present-day Czechia. In a broader meaning, Bohemia sometimes refers to the entire Czech territory, including Moravia and Czech Silesia,[2] especially in a historical context, such as the Lands of the Bohemian Crown ruled by Bohemian kings.
    (...)
    In the 2nd century BC, the Romans were competing for dominance in northern Italy, with various peoples including the Boii. The Romans defeated the Boii at the Battle of Placentia (194 BC) and the Battle of Mutina (193 BC). After this, many of the Boii retreated north across the Alps.[7]

    Much later Roman authors refer to the area they had once occupied (the "desert of the Boii" as Pliny and Strabo called it[8]) as Boiohaemum. The earliest mention[7] was by Tacitus' Germania 28 (written at the end of the 1st century AD),[9] and later mentions of the same name are in Strabo and Velleius Paterculus.[10] The name appears to include the tribal name Boi- plus the Germanic element *haimaz "home" (whence Gothic haims, German Heim, English home). This Boiohaemum was apparently isolated to the area where King Marobod's kingdom was centred, within the Hercynian forest.
    When we discuss the Celtic people the later fate of Boii - in nomem omen Galicia - is also interesting:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Boykos (Cyrillic: Бойки, Polish: Bojkowie, Slovak: Pujďáci), or simply Highlanders (verkhovyntsi) are a Ukrainian ethnographic group located in the Carpathian Mountains of Ukraine and Poland. Along with the neighboring Lemkos and Hutsuls, the Boykos are a sub-group of the Ukrainian people and speak a dialect of the Ukrainian language.[3][4] Boykos differ from their neighbors in dialect, dress, folk architecture, and customs.
    (...)
    An older view proposed by the 19th century authors I. Vahylevych, Ya. Holovatsky, and P. Šafárik links the Boykos to the Celtic Boii, a tribe unattested since the beginning of the Christian Era.
    I guess that Polish word "bój" (fight, combat) comes from the name of Boii. Also as "b" is often interchangable with "w" then my nickname should probably be "Boiiwoda" - "the one who leads Boii" or "the leader of Boii" - instead of "Wojewoda" (meaning "the one who leads worriors" or "the leader of worriors"):

    Please note that the word “Lugi” sounds identically with a Polish word “Ludzi(e)” which means people or men. Possibly it is coincidental bur perhaps not.
    (...)
    Lug does sound that way but note too that lud is common to many languages. For example, in German you have leute and ludi was a common reference to “peoples” even in German space (thus, we have Nordliudi and similar names). Cognates also appear in Anglo-Saxon. It may be that these were some sort of German-Slav hybrid but most people think they were German speaking Nordics. Note too the word “leader” – that too has the same root. In other words, even if you were to ignore the difference between a “d” and a “g” that would not necessarily mean it’s Slavic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugius

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiorix

    They probably joined the Cimbri during their migration towards the south?
    It seems that Lugii and Boii were best buddies:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Boiorix was a king of the Cimbri tribe during the Cimbrian War. His most notable achievement was a spectacular victory against the Romans at the Battle of Arausio in 105 BC.[1] He was later defeated and slain along with Lugius at the Battle of Vercellae in 101 BC.
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2017-03-23 at 11:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wojewoda View Post
    On this map Arii (Lugii Harii) are located near Kraków. And also near Kraków we have Tyniec:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Tyniec is a historic village in Poland on the Vistula river, since 1973 a part of the city of Kraków (currently in the district of Dębniki). Tyniec is notable for its famous Benedictine abbey founded by King Casimir the Restorer in 1044. The name of the village comes from a Celtic language word "tyn", which means wall or fence, and which means that the history of Tyniec as a fortified settlement (see gord) dates back to pre-Slavic times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    They probably joined the Cimbri during their migration towards the south?
    Cimbri=Cymru?

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Wales (Listeni/ˈweɪlz/; Welsh: Cymru [ˈkəm.rɨ] ( listen)) is a country that is part of the United Kingdom and the island of Great Britain.

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