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Thread: Map of R-L61790 days old

  1. #11
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    "I still vividly remember the day one of my schoolmates told me: we Rhinelanders are the true Germans. The Prussians are Slavs, Obotrites, Wends, and the like who put together their state by theft and violence." - Konrad Adenauer.

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    Wojewoda (2017-03-23)

  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Some people think that L617 originated in Iberia and expanded from there to the British Ilses and to Eastern-Central Europe. But I tend to think that it originated in East-Central Europe and later expanded to the British Isles and to Iberia. The fact that older and more basal branches of L617 can be found in the East rather supports my point of view. All Iberians and Brits with L617 belong to younger, more derived branches.

    Distribution of L617 also seems to correlate with Lugus-related Celtic ethnonyms and toponyms:

    Lugidunon / Lugidunum (= Legnica or Głogów, in Poland)
    Luguvalium (= Carlisle in Cumbria, in northern England)
    Lugudunum / Lugdunum (= Lyon, in Rhône-Alpes, France)
    Lugdunum Batavorum (= Leiden, in Zuid-Holland, the Netherlands)
    Lugdunum Convenarum (= Saint-Bertrand-de-Comminges)

    Ethnoses called Lugii (later Lugiorum nomen - the Lugian federation), Lugi, Luggones and Lougei:

    1) Poland:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugii


    2) Britain:

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...lemy/2/2*.html



    3) Iberia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astures#Origins

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Ro...ninsula#Celtic



    Lugus was a Celtic god of intelligence, art, crafts, truth and light.



    I guess that L617 was an eastern Bell Beaker marker or an eastern La Tène marker (or both):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...enturies_BC.29
    Creative! Primary one remark, Lugdunum Batavorum is most probably a Gallo-Romanic name giving. Still Celtic but most probably not 'native'.

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    Litvin (2017-03-23)

  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    I guess that L617 was an eastern Bell Beaker marker or an eastern La Tène marker (or both):
    YFull dates for L617:

    Quote Originally Posted by YFull
    R-L617 FGC14937/Y9057 * L617 * FGC14934/Y9056+3 SNPs formed 4300 ybp, TMRCA 3800 ybp
    ... look Bell Beakerish:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    The Bell-Beaker culture (...) c. 2900 – 1800 BC
    .... rather than La Tene-ish:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    La Tène culture (...) (from about 500 BCE to the Roman conquest in the 1st century BCE)
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2017-03-23 at 18:18.

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    Litvin (2017-03-23)

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