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Thread: Summary of Argentine Genetic Studies138 days old

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montanini View Post
    [Off-Topic]

    Some questions:

    Spoiler: 

    1- In Argentina exist a leftist propaganda pro-miscegenation as exist in Brazil*? Other words, an propaganda where the couple is one mestizo with a white woman, would be possible to see it on the national television or just no?

    *

    (0:06)

    2- Exist one movement of the Mestizos against the Whites where they always want advantages like quotas in Public Universities, quotas in Public Services, quotas in Jobs, Cash Benefits etc?

    3- Is there a crime for racism or racial insult in Argentina? Or exist freedom of expression like in the US?

    4- Is there anything good in the Northwest Argentina?
    Regarding number 3, I know a guy who spent some time in Argentina, and he told me people there were shocked when he told them about the anti-discrimination laws we have here. They probably do have some PC laws there, but mild compared to what we are used to.

    He told me people in Argentina are more casual when it comes to using racial insults, that is, it is not as taboo as in here.

    "A nation that separates from its history, and keeps a burning shame on the forehead, is erased by God from the board." - Otto von Bismarck

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it" - George Orwell

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  4. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldBedBug View Post
    Regarding number 3, I know a guy who spent some time in Argentina, and he told me people there were shocked when he told them about the anti-discrimination laws we have here. They probably do have some PC laws there, but mild compared to what we are used to.

    He told me people in Argentina are more casual when it comes to using racial insults, that is, it is not as taboo as in here.

    Argentine vocabulary must be the most racist in the world maybe. We use "negro" to refer low class people, thiefs, etc. all the time. It's something normal and not seen racist, except you are on TV. Racist insults are very common as well as xenophobic insults like "Bolivian".

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldBedBug View Post
    Regarding number 3, I know a guy who spent some time in Argentina, and he told me people there were shocked when he told them about the anti-discrimination laws we have here. They probably do have some PC laws there, but mild compared to what we are used to.

    He told me people in Argentina are more casual when it comes to using racial insults, that is, it is not as taboo as in here.

    This for me could clearly represent that 'Whites' (people 90% or over European blood) and Off-Whites (people between 80% and 90% European) are still the majority in Argentina. If mestizos were the majority in the country they would not accept it, that's for sure.

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    We are still a majority for sure, but there are lots of mestizos who self-identify as whites. They use racist and xenophobic slurs even though they're similar to the people they are insulting. That's why racist slurs will continue despite the ethnic make up of the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benzgolv View Post
    We are still a majority for sure, but there are lots of mestizos who self-identify as whites. They use racist and xenophobic slurs even though they're similar to the people they are insulting. That's why racist slurs will continue despite the ethnic make up of the country.
    True,

    Self-Identified race per Latin America Country:

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...erican-Country



    Of course this is not the equivalent of a Census, but it still seems to give you an idea. And the results for Brazil match well with the results of the Brazilian Census, for example (I would like to see the results for Cuba).

    Average/Self-Identified Whites

    Argentina: 67,5%
    Chile: 58%

    If the standard of the Self-Identified Whites in Chile are the same as in Argentina. After all the main mix of these two countries are Native and European.

    People over ~60% European will identify themselves as White. (I put little more than 55% Euro because the test of Chile indicate some corrections that make the average of the country stay 3 or 4% more European).
    http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms7472

    Look:




    Then like I said if the definition of 'White' is the same in both countries Argentina and Chile, ~67,5% of Argentinians are over 60% European.

    Argentinian Result for 76% European, 4% African (Including MENA probably) and 20% Amerindian.



    80% of Argentinians over 60% European.


    Argentinian result for 65% European, 4% African (Prob. Including MENA) and 31% Amerindian.



    65% of Argentinians over 60% European.


    Argentinian result for 67,5% European.



    70% of Argentinians over 60% European.


    However there are some details:
    a) These tests were performed in public hospitals and therefore forgot part of the Whitest population in Argentina.
    b) We do not know if the definition of "being white" in Argentina is the same as in Chile (~60% Euro), it may be different or even very different. Brazil is little different for example (You can see here #Post 53: http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...scussion/page6), United States is very different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ispanic_Whites

    If I had to bet I would think that the definition of 'White' (for the Census or where people would begin to identify themselves as White) in Argentina would be near Brazil (or between Brazil and Chile) with the difference that the racial components is mostly Euro-Native and not triracial. Go with 65% or 70% European and make your estimates.
    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-01-12 at 07:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montanini View Post
    True,

    Self-Identified race per Latin America Country:

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...erican-Country



    Of course this is not the equivalent of a Census, but it still seems to give you an idea. And the results for Brazil match well with the results of the Brazilian Census, for example (I would like to see the results for Cuba).

    Average/Self-Identified Whites

    Argentina: 67,5%
    Chile: 58%

    If the standard of the Self-Identified Whites in Chile are the same as in Argentina. After all the main mix of these two countries are Native and European.

    People over ~60% European will identify themselves as White. (I put little more than 55% Euro because the test of Chile indicate some corrections that make the average of the country stay 3 or 4% more European).
    http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms7472

    Look:




    Then like I said if the definition of 'White' is the same in both countries Argentina and Chile, ~67,5% of Argentinians are over 60% European.

    Argentinian Result for 76% European, 4% African (Including MENA probably) and 20% Amerindian.



    80% of Argentinians over 60% European.


    Argentinian result for 65% European, 4% African (Prob. Including MENA) and 31% Amerindian.



    65% of Argentinians over 60% European.


    Argentinian result for 67,5% European.



    70% of Argentinians over 60% European.


    However there are some details:
    a) These tests were performed in public hospitals and therefore forgot part of the Whitest population in Argentina.
    b) We do not know if the definition of "being white" in Argentina is the same as in Chile (~60% Euro), it may be different or even very different. Brazil is little different for example (You can see here #Post 53: http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...scussion/page6), United States is very different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ispanic_Whites

    If I had to bet I would think that the definition of 'White' (for the Census or where people would begin to identify themselves as White) in Argentina would be near Brazil (or between Brazil and Chile) with the difference that the racial components is mostly Euro-Native and not triracial. Go with 65% or 70% European and make your estimates.
    The average "white" Chilean would probably be considered as mestizo in Argentina, while the average mestizo Argentinian would be considered white in Chile.
    I think people of European-Native admixture are more likely to identify as whites than those of mixed European and African.

    And yes, the fact that these studies took place in public hospitals favors the mestizo input. Had the same studies been carried out in private hospitals and it would be between 80-90% European. However they're all estimates.

    Perhaps in a future we will have official statistics of race/ancestry incluided in the census like Brazil.

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    In my opinion people who is in the 70-100% euro range (whites in most of latin america) are the majority of the country.

    This genetic studies tend to use public hospitals and still at least half of the sample is +70% euro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmv88 View Post

    - - - Updated - - -

    Basing myself in all this genetic studies, and taking into accounnt the population of each provice, the euro component in the Argentine population should be as follows

    Compare, the less Euro Provinces normally have more children and also more people of childbearing age than the more European provinces:

    Porcentaje de población de menores de 15 años, 2010. Elaboracion propia sobre la base de datos del INDEC

    CABA 19%
    Buenos Aires 23,9%
    Córdoba 22,9%
    Entre Ríos 26,1%
    La Pampa 23,8%
    Santa Fé 23%

    ===========
    Santiago Del Estero 28,6%
    Salta 31,5%
    La Rioja 27,6%
    Jujuy 29,8%
    Catamarca 30,5%



    Tasa global de fecundidad (proyecciones y estimaciones 2005-2010).

    CABA: 1,39%
    Buenos Aires: 2,17%
    Córdoba: 2,16%
    Entre Ríos: 2,52%
    La Pampa: 2,51%
    Santa Fé: 2,31%

    ===========
    Santiago Del Estero: 3,03%
    Salta: 2,87%
    La Rioja: 2,76%
    Jujuy: 2,76%
    Catamarca: 2,82%


    http://www.paho.org/arg/images/galle...014_opsarg.pdf


    ========================================

    It is the same here in Brazil (and also in United States with Hispanics: https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.co...19802013_b.png), Northern States (normally more Non-White, esp. Amerindian) have more children than the Southern States:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ErkZ2Ak_vZ...ade_brasil.jpg

    "Número de Filhos por Mulheres"
    http://www.correiodopovo.com.br/Noti...l-sao-gauchos-
    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-01-16 at 14:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montanini View Post
    Compare, the less Euro Provinces normally have more children and also more people of childbearing age than the more European provinces:

    Porcentaje de población de menores de 15 años, 2010. Elaboracion propia sobre la base de datos del INDEC

    CABA 19%
    Buenos Aires 23,9%
    Córdoba 22,9%
    Entre Ríos 26,1%
    La Pampa 23,8%
    Santa Fé 23%

    ===========
    Santiago Del Estero 28,6%
    Salta 31,5%
    La Rioja 27,6%
    Jujuy 29,8%
    Catamarca 30,5%



    Tasa global de fecundidad (proyecciones y estimaciones 2005-2010).

    CABA: 1,39%
    Buenos Aires: 2,17%
    Córdoba: 2,16%
    Entre Ríos: 2,52%
    La Pampa: 2,51%
    Santa Fé: 2,31%

    ===========
    Santiago Del Estero: 3,03%
    Salta: 2,87%
    La Rioja: 2,76%
    Jujuy: 2,76%
    Catamarca: 2,82%


    http://www.paho.org/arg/images/galle...014_opsarg.pdf


    ========================================

    It is the same here in Brazil (and also in United States with Hispanics: https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.co...19802013_b.png), Northern States (normally more Non-White, esp. Amerindian) have more children than the Southern States:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ErkZ2Ak_vZ...ade_brasil.jpg

    "Número de Filhos por Mulheres"
    http://www.correiodopovo.com.br/Noti...l-sao-gauchos-
    Yes sadly the poorest provinces have higher fertility rates...

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    It would be nice if you did three scenarios for the racial composition of Argentina, I really did one from Brazil, the first table, conservative, the second would be the "optimistic" and the third would be pessimistic.


    The funniest part is that the conservative version was right on the middle of the two. Anyway, as I said, it's better to give a range in the estimates.

    Detail, I feel that the optimistic version of Brazil is more prone to match with the reality than the pessimistic one.
    Last edited by Montanini; 2017-01-20 at 17:52.

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