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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    And perhaps you ought to learn how to spell this word properly: Paleolithic, not "Paleolethic".



    The sky is blue, the grass is green... Relevance to the topic at hand?



    Of course I'm serious, we have not found a single Villabruna-type population in the Near East so far, besides Villabruna also had a fair amount of AG3-type ancestry. So yeah, you're arguing against the data.



    Wishful thinking, Villabruna's phenotype has little to no bearing on his origin. The only reason you find this compelling is because it mentions "deep ancestry" from "the Southern Near East"... Which, I guess, is why R1b is absent in all Near Eastern samples predating the Bronze Age.



    Cool story, last time I checked, the oldest R* sample we had was from Lake Baikal (MA-1), and ANE was basically derived from this 24kya old sample... Not from Yemen or "the Paleolethic Southern Near East".



    Did you not read my post above? I clearly stated that "CHG-type populations seem to have been centered around the Caucasus and the shores of the Caspian". Note, I am not saying that this is an absolute certainty, by that same token I'd have to argue that R1b originated in Italy since Satsurblia is about as old as Villabruna. For the very same reason, I keep an open mind, the Iranian plateau, the Pleistocene Gulf refuge (AKA "Gulf Oasis"), Mesopotamia and even SE Anatolia remain valid contenders in the absence of additional data.

    You see, unlike you, I have no identity problems when it comes to my paternal lineage. I don't keep arguing against the data over and over again like a broken record, if the data unequivocally shows that J1 originated in the Caucasus (which is somewhat likely), I'll have no problems accepting this and moving on. You, on the other hand, keep arguing despite the very conclusive nature of the evidence on R1b, simply because you don't like the idea of having ancestry from Europe.
    "The truth hurts, so let me switch to the correction of his writting". I am not a native English speaker. Again and again: R1b is not R* and also not R1a. Is that too hard to understand? R1b evolved somewhere else than R1a. Otherwise they never would have split. I have an identity problem? I am not the Jew who has a British mom and from a religious point of view, is not counted as a Jew. Show me your Siberian R1b* or L389*. Why are they in the Near East? Your logic is senseless and science is doing good to kick your steppe where it belongs: into the trash. I wonder why this is accepted by Germans on their genetic forums, but is denied by some Jews and Polaks here on this meeting point of racists.
    Last edited by mangotree; 2017-04-02 at 14:35.

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ageladakos View Post
    There can be no doubt that the Yamnaya carried (at least some of the) IE languages into europe but as the Yamnaya (pretty much like every groups of humans) were mixed, questions arise about the origin of the IE language that they did speak.
    Markers and genetics might track the expansion of peoples which carry a language, but they do not (and probably cannot) provide a definite answer on the origin of a language.

    I am not trying to doubt which marker tracks IE better, or where the language developed, or anything like that, I am questioning the use of genetic findings as linguistic answers.

    Obviously, real scientists do not make claims that they cannot support:
    "However, the question of what languages were spoken by the “Eastern European hunter-gatherers” and the southern, Armenian-like, ancestral population remains open." (Haak et al. 2015)

    Why couldn't it be that this J1 dude that you mentioned spoke a very early IE language?
    I am not "claiming" anything, but why not?

    On Lazaridis et al. 2016, or Jones et al. 2015, i cannot really comment as i have not read these papers yet. When i find time to do so i'll get back to you if it is worth doing.

    P.s. i hate you for removing lakupiipu :P
    I've never said that genetics alone can provide the answer to the PIE homeland debate, this is a linguistic issue first and foremost, and as far as the linguistics go the debate has been over for quite some time now since the Pontic-Caspian steppe has achieved consensus status. Arguing over this isn't too different from trying to drown a fish at this point.

    Now of course, the question of which ancient population is tied to the genesis of PIE remains open, nevertheless in terms of likeliness EHG is the best candidate. You asked why Satsurblia could not have spoken an early IE language, first off he predates PIE unity by 7,000 years at the very least, second J1 (including the branch he belongs to) shows next to no correlation with IE speakers, finally J1 in the Caucasus (which is mostly Z1828) is strictly associated with Northeast Caucasian speakers.

    So while Satsurblia could have spoken some sort of language ancestral to PIE, this is extremely unlikely... And I'm just talking about the genetics here, if we consider the linguistic evidence this becomes even more unlikely because the most convincing long-range genetic relationship for PIE is with Proto-Uralic (AKA "Indo-Uralic"), not with any Caucasian language family.

    Quote Originally Posted by mangotree View Post
    "The truth hurts, so let me switch to the correction of his writting".
    Writing, not "writting"... You were saying?

    I am not a native English speaker.
    I'm learning new stuff every day here on ABF!

    Again and again: R1b is not R* and also not R1a.
    And R1b is not 23,000 years old, MA-1 pretty much is though, so tell me: How come?

    R1b evolved somewhere else than R1a.
    Both R1b and R1a are... *drum roll* ... branches of R1. For some odd reason, you keep forgetting that.

    I have an identity problem? I am not the Jew who has a British mom and from a religious point of view, is not counted as a Jew.
    Yeah? That's not really going to work with me, you know:



    Need I remind you of what you wrote on an another forum?

    "How glad I would be if I were from J1.. I am R1b and this doesnt fit with my Arab identity.."
    -Mangotree/Raspberry/Tahir0277; 08-11-2016


    Show me your Siberian R1b* or L389*.
    Nah, you show me an R1b sample from "the Paleolethic Southern Near East" first, then we'll talk

    Why are they in the Near East?
    You're asking the wrong question: Where did all the R1b Natufians go?

    Your logic is senseless and science is doing good to kick your steppe where it belongs: into the trash.
    If believing that makes you sleep all tight and comfy at night, then by all means don't stop... Just don't start running away when more data proves you wrong

    I wonder why this is accepted by Germans on their genetic forums, but is denied by some Jews and Polaks here on this meeting point of racists.
    That's not going to work either:

    Last edited by Semitic Duwa; 2017-04-02 at 15:00.
    لأَنَّ فِي كَثْـــرَةِ الْحِكْمَةِ كَثْـــرَةُ الْغَمِّ
    وَالَّذِي يَزِيـــدُ عِلْماً يَزِيـــدُ حُزْناً



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    Quote Originally Posted by mangotree View Post
    Who is Tahir0277? I am raspberry/mangotree but not that guy
    He's one of the numerous sockpuppet accounts you've created after having requested a ban from this site, I could've added "raspberry1" as well.

    What have you smoked you jew?
    Don't play dumb, turk.

    Yes R1 is the father of R1a/b.
    And R* is "the father of R1"... Geddit?

    "What is 9+9? - the car has 4 wheel!", correct but what is the point?
    The point is that R1b is associated with AG3-type admixture, not Basal Eurasian.

    What are with your J1 Natufians? You will see yourself.
    I have never claimed that Natufians would be J1, what are you on about?

    Btw I said that because I believed that my clade was IE, which is not the case (thank god). But seriously I am not Tahir and you seem to be my stalker.
    You said that because R1b does not fit with your Arab identity, this is why you keep claiming that R1b comes from the Near East despite the overwhelming amount of evidence this funny theory ignores. Also, you seem to forget I'm a moderator here, I don't even need to stalk.
    لأَنَّ فِي كَثْـــرَةِ الْحِكْمَةِ كَثْـــرَةُ الْغَمِّ
    وَالَّذِي يَزِيـــدُ عِلْماً يَزِيـــدُ حُزْناً



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    Quote Originally Posted by ageladakos View Post
    Ancient Greeks or even Mycenean Greeks would have no trouble reading it
    So what? Asko Parpola who is Finnish, can read Sanskrit, and his brother Simo Parpola can read Sargon and Hammurabi era Akkadian, does that mean these two Finns are of Aryan and Semitic ancestry? That you understand ancient Greek doesn't mean your genome profile is identical to that of Greeks 3,000 years ago.

    Logic dawg, logic, didn't you Greeks invent it and named it logos? Why is logic so difficult for modern Dienekes-like Greeks?

    Quote Originally Posted by ageladakos View Post
    Do you have any scientific proof that the indo-European languages came from the ANE ancestry?
    If you do, then share it with us, I am interested
    How about the fact that the Yamnaya tribe was something like 50% ANE ancestry (which didn't exist in Europe until Indo-European tribes migrated west), and that most linguists have difficulties demonstrating deep linguistic relations between proto-Indo-European and other archaic and/or extinct language families from Europe and MENA? Add to that, the fact that Mal'ta boy was Y-DNA R* and mtDNA U (both haplogroups were present in Yamnaya in the form of subclades), and that linguists have discussed possible relations between proto-Indo-European and proto-Uralic (and other Siberian/Asian languages, like proto-Turkic, proto-Mongolian etcetera), I think it's pretty obvious that what we can see in the ancient DNA of Yamnaya, is that it was basically relatives of Mal'ta boy that had migrated into 'west Eurasia', settled down and mixed with the indigenous populations who were basically Near Easterners (Semites or otherwise) and archaic European hunter-gatherers. It's very obvious that the ancestor of the proto-Indo-European language family, came from further north-east, and its speakers were most likely of an ANE or ANE-related genome profile.

    Quote Originally Posted by ageladakos View Post
    Why are they choosing their words carefully???
    Because they're geneticists first and foremost, not linguists (nor Indo-Europeanists as far as I know), and as such, they don't understand the laws of linguistics in the field of urheimat theories: you can't have two widely geographically separated urheimats for the same language family. What you'd end up with, is two language families that may be clearly closely related (demonstrably so), but still different language families with different vocabulary and so on. David W. Anthony for example, mentioned that there have been Indo-Europeanists who argued that proto-Anatolian may have been a "sister or cousin language" to proto-Indo-European, and not a daughter language to it, on the basis of some of its archaic features, however, this clearly can't be the case because proto-Anatolian while certainly the earliest split from PIE, shares too much vocabulary (as in cognates) with other Indo-European branches and so it can't have developed too far away from the original urheimat.

    Quote Originally Posted by ageladakos View Post
    I quoted Haak et al. and Dienekes also quoted Haak et al.
    Haak et al. 2015 isn't the ultimate bible to the proto-Indo-European urheimat. All it did was give us some important genetic evidence/data on the genetic makeup of the Yamnaya tribe. To understand why Dienekes has the wrong mentality, you actually have to read linguistics oriented literature in this field. Then you'll understand the strength of the linguistic evidence, which Dienekes disregards because apparently he has some Mediterranean tribalism to prioritize.

    Anyway, trust me, I'm a lot more versed in Indo-European urheimat literature than you are, and my expertise says you cannot have an urheimat in Ukraine/Russia and another urheimat in Greece/Anatolia. At such a distance in prehistoric times, there'd be little to no linguistic contact and the two languages would have diverged so radically that they'd be unintelligible at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by ageladakos View Post
    "The Yamna population generally belongs to the European race. It was tall (175.5cm), dolichocephalic, with broad faces of medium height. Among them there were, however, more robust elements with high and wide faces of the proto-Europoid type, and also more gracile individuals with narrow and high faces, probably reflecting contacts with the East Mediterranean type" (Kurts 1984: 90)

    ?????????
    So you believe "the Mediterranean race" came from Ukraine? You know, modern European populations while not perfect genetic clones of their prehistoric ancestors, still reflect to a significant degree the ancestry of past human settlements. Mediterraneans are more or less Early European Farmers (who had significant ancestry from the original Neolithic farmers from the Near East), and modern east Europeans are significantly descended from, you guessed it, "the dolichocephalic proto-Europoid Yamna population". And genetically, Scandinavians and Russians are much closer than either are to Greeks and other south Europeans, which brings us back to the Scythians: they lived in the PIE urheimat region, shortly after the post-PIE era. Who do you think they'd be genetically more similar to, today: Greeks or Poles?

    And that contact with East Mediterranean talk, I think David W. Anthony or J. P. Mallory wrote about it (or maybe both did, I can't remember off of the top of my head right now), that eventually, as Yamnaya groups began spreading west, they began mixing with Balkan women (I think it was in Romania or something this happened). Physical anthroplogists speculated about this stuff back in the 1980s based on differences in skull shape and such, in regions closer to the Mediterranean sea, as opposed to the original Yamnaya skulls, but this was before there was ancient DNA available to work with. This does not mean the proto-Indo-European language was originally spoken in Anatolia, or that the proto-Indo-Europeans were of "Mediterraneans race".

    Also, keep in mind that I'm an outsider in this debate: Dienekes may very well be a moron, but politically I'm pro-Greek and the Scythians were the Barbarian enemies of my ancestors! I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just tired of Dienekes having used his blog as a disinformation source for a decade, and that some n00bs who are too lazy to read real literature, apparently still take that blog seriously.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2017-04-02 at 16:56.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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  9. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post

    The point is that R1b is associated with AG3-type admixture, not Basal Eurasian.
    No, the earliest R1b to date is linked with WHG (villabruna). It's R3 (The dead R branch of Mal'ta who has been separated for more than 4000 years from the R branch who gave birth to R1 and R2 ) who is associated with AG-3type admixture.

    We don't exactly know how was R1b when he was born but yes he was clearly not basal Eurasian for that matter.

    I hope the hunters gatherers genomes from lake Baikal will shed some light on this.
    Last edited by yahooland; 2017-04-10 at 01:14.

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    Villabruna had AG3-type admixture though, so it's unlikely R1b was a WHG marker.
    لأَنَّ فِي كَثْـــرَةِ الْحِكْمَةِ كَثْـــرَةُ الْغَمِّ
    وَالَّذِي يَزِيـــدُ عِلْماً يَزِيـــدُ حُزْناً



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    On a somewhat related note, I reckon many of these heavily East Asian admixed eastern Scythians would've looked like Karen O, who's 50/50 Polish/Korean.





    Last edited by Polako; 2017-04-16 at 10:38.

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    Hilarious meme made by @Alexander I believe, summarizing this thread:





    @ageladakos
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Hilarious meme made by @Alexander I believe, summarizing this thread:



    @ageladakos
    @Alexander It is a pity that the thread where you said that you would rape women (because you are inferior and incompetent) got deleted... i wanted to quote it again :/



    Memes make you feel powerful!



    Aryans ... lol
    Last edited by ageladakos; 2017-05-08 at 12:57.
    brb

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    Quote Originally Posted by ageladakos View Post
    Why were they waiting for more ancient DNA????

    39 different authors of the Haak et al. 2015,
    Wolfgang Haak1,*, Iosif Lazaridis2,3,*, Nick Patterson3, Nadin Rohland2,3, Swapan Mallick2,3,4, Bastien Llamas1, Guido Brandt5, Susanne Nordenfelt2,3, Eadaoin Harney2,3,4, Kristin Stewardson2,3,4, Qiaomei Fu2,3,6,7, Alissa Mittnik8, Eszter Bánffy9,10, Christos Economou11, Michael Francken12, Susanne Friederich13, Rafael Garrido Pena14, Fredrik Hallgren15, Valery Khartanovich16, Aleksandr Khokhlov17, Michael Kunst18, Pavel Kuznetsov17, Harald Meller13, Oleg Mochalov17, Vayacheslav Moiseyev16, Nicole Nicklisch5,13,19, Sandra L. Pichler20, Roberto Risch21, Manuel A. Rojo Guerra22, Christina Roth5, Anna SzécsényiNagy5,9, Joachim Wahl23, Matthias Meyer6, Johannes Krause8,12,24, Dorcas Brown25, David Anthony25, Alan Cooper1, Kurt Werner Alt5,13,19,20 and David Reich2,3,4
    co-author this damn paper and the word which is chosen is "some",
    but EliasAlucard on this forum knows




    Validity???? validity??? OoOoOOO
    NO!

    Lets take a look at this part of Haak et al.:
    "The Armenian plateau hypothesis gains in plausibility by the fact that we have discovered evidence of admixture in the ancestry of Yamnaya steppe pastoralists, including gene flow from a population of Near Eastern ancestry for which Armenians today appear to be a reasonable surrogate "

    Don't make me be harsh towards you Elias.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    No it doesn't you stupid idiot.

    “These results provide support for the theory of a steppe origin of at least some of the Indo-European languages of Europe.” (Haak et al. 2015)

    at least some = not all
    none < at least some < all

    Proper science is not about opinions, it is about facts.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    Again, no you stupid idiot.

    The paper does not say
    "that it's possible for all Indo-European languages to have come from the steppe".

    I agree with their actual findings, not your interpretation of their findings., or your assumptions

    Did you miss this part?

    The Armenian plateau hypothesis gains in plausibility by the fact that we have discovered evidence of admixture in the ancestry of Yamnaya steppe pastoralists, including gene flow from a population of Near Eastern ancestry for which Armenians today appear to be a reasonable surrogate "

    I guess you did, because you are a Μαλάκας.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    Having trouble reading and understanding your own sources????



    my question was
    "Do you have any scientific proof that the indo-European languages came from the ANE ancestry?"

    You are giving me some paper about testing/using new methods for linguistic macrofamilies???????

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    Before you said



    You are just a retard writing bullshit.

    Quotes from Haak et al. 2015:

    1 -
    " [b]This pattern is also seen in ADMIXTURE analysis (Fig. 2b, SI6), which implies that the Yamnaya have ancestry from populations related to the Caucasus and South Asia[b] that is largely absent in 38 Early or Middle Neolithic farmers but present in all 25 Late Neolithic or Bronze Age individuals."

    2 -
    "These results can be explained if the new genetic material that arrived in Germany was a composite of two elements: EHG and a type of Near Eastern ancestry different from that which was introduced by early farmers (also suggested by PCA and ADMIXTURE; Fig. 2, SI5, SI6). We estimate that these two elements each contributed about half the ancestry each of the Yamnaya (SI6, SI9), explaining why the population turnover inferred using Yamnaya as a source is about twice as high compared to the undiluted EHG."

    3 -
    "first the EHG, then the Yamnaya formed by mixture between EHG and a Near Eastern related population, and then the Corded Ware who were formed by a mixture of the Yamnaya with Middle Neolithic Europeans. We caution that the sampled Yamnaya individuals from Samara might not be directly ancestral to Corded Ware individuals from Germany. It is possible that a more western Yamnaya population, or an earlier (pre-Yamnaya) steppe population may have migrated into central Europe, and future work may uncover more missing links in the chain of transmission of steppe ancestry. "

    4 -
    "The inclusion of a large number of ancient hunter-gatherers has probably caused such an ancestral population to appear in this analysis. European farmers now appear to be mixture of a Near Eastern (orange) and European hunter-gatherer (dark blue) ancestral populations, with an increase in the hunter-gatherer ancestry during the Middle Neolithic (reflecting the “resurgence” of such ancestry shown in PCA, Fig. 2a) and also during the Late Neolithic"

    5 -
    "A similar (darker green) component also distinguishes LN/EBA groups from earlier ones at K=16; this component appears to be highly represented in groups from South Asia, the Near East, and the Caucasus."

    6 -
    "the analysis of SI9 also suggests an even split between an EHG and a Near Eastern component in the ancestry of the Yamnaya"

    7 -
    "It seems that an unknown population, related to present-day Near Eastern populations, entered eastern Europe at some time between the EHG and the formation of the Yamnaya. "

    8 -
    " In the Russian steppe, where farming did not get established, [b]the Yamnaya pastoralists emerged as a mixture of the EHG and a Near Eastern population.[b]"

    9 -
    "There is evidence (SI7) that Yamnaya has diluted EHG (Karelia_HG-related) ancestry from a source related to present-day Near Eastern populations. If some of the farmer-related ancestry in the Corded Ware was not of local European origin but came with the Yamnaya, ultimately from the Near East, then this ancestry would represent a farmer-related population that was basal to European farmers and thus occupy a phylogenetic position similar to that of Q in Fig. S9.18. "

    10 -
    "Ancient genomes from the Caucasus, the Near East, and Central Asia might reveal the existence of Neolithic populations there that may be involved in the ancestry of ancient steppe populations and central Europeans"

    11 -
    "Figure S9.20: The Yamnaya show a pattern of negative correlation when using Karelia_HG and either Iraqi_Jew or Armenian as references. This is consistent with it having a component of ancestry related to the Caucasus/Near East, suggesting that ancient DNA work in these regions may reveal a good surrogate for this type of ancestry."

    12 -
    "Furthermore, we showed that the Yamnaya population from the early Bronze Age in the Russian steppe may have been related to the population that admixed into Late Neolithic central Europeans, as it was not of purely eastern European huntergatherer descent but had additional ancestry of a farmer-related population that split off before the differentiation of European farmers, perhaps from the Caucasus or Near East, although more work is needed to identify the source of this population."

    13 -
    "Yamnaya can be modeled as a mixture of Armenians and Karelia_HG"

    14 -
    "We may not currently have a good surrogate for the population that diluted the EHG to form the Yamnaya, although the analysis of f-statistics (SI7) suggests a source related to Near Eastern populations, and the Yamnaya show evidence of such admixture (SI7, SI9)."

    15 -
    "[b]Past genetic data from ancient DNA has confirmed one of the major predictions of the Anatolian hypothesis – the migration of early farmers from the Near East (inclusive of Anatolia) to Europe – using both mitochondrial DNA22-24 and whole genome analysis"

    16 - "
    1. The Steppe hypothesis gains in plausibility by our discovery of a migration during the Late Neolithic from the steppe into central Europe. This migration was predicted by some proponents of the Steppe hypothesis and we have now shown (definitively) that it occurred. We also note that our results help to differentiate between variants of the steppe hypothesis: we do not find evidence of an influence of steppe migrants earlier than the Corded Ware, although we cannot rule out the possibility that such evidence might be found with larger sample sizes and more sampling locations in central Europe. However, we can definitely reject that the breakup of Indo-European occurred as late as 4000 years ago28, as by ~4500 years ago the migration into Europe had already taken place. Moreover, this migration clearly resulted in a large population turnover, meaning that the Steppe hypothesis does not require elite dominance9 to have transmitted Indo-European languages into Europe. Instead, our results show that the languages could have been introduced simply by strength of numbers: via major migration in which both sexes participated (SI2, SI4)

    2. The Anatolian hypothesis becomes less plausible as an explanation for the origin of all IndoEuropean languages in Europe

    3. The Balkan hypothesis faces similar difficulties as the Anatolian.

    4. The Armenian plateau hypothesis gains in plausibility by the fact that we have discovered evidence of admixture in the ancestry of Yamnaya steppe pastoralists, including gene flow from a population of Near Eastern ancestry for which Armenians today appear to be a reasonable surrogate (SI4, SI7, SI9). [b
    However, the question of what languages were spoken by the “Eastern European hunter-gatherers” and the southern, Armenian-like, ancestral population remains open.
    Examining ancient DNA from the Caucasus and Near East may be able to provide further insight about the dynamics of the interaction between these regions and the steppe. Our results show that southern populations diluted the ancestry of populations from the steppe, but also that ancestry related to Ancient North Eurasians forms a major ancestral component of the populations of the present-day Caucasus25. Thus, both south-north and north-south genetic influence across the Caucasus is plausible.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Oh, so you guys wish to argue genetix?
    Can you argue against proper science?
    You can't even understand a single fucking paper and you try to speak about stuff like the origin of IE languages and populations that lived thousand years ago.

    SUCK MY BIG, GREEK, E-DICK!
    (it even fucking rhymes!)



    If you don't stop playing word games like assholes, then this was the last time i reply to this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    I believe, summarizing this thread:
    No bro, most of this thread is about you and Polako acting like little bitches because i took a shit on your fantasies.
    brb

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