Donate Now Goal amount for this month: 180 EUR, Received: 120 EUR (67%)
By donating, you not only support the continued existence of this site, you also improve this site in various ways, by making it affordable for ForumBiodiversity to upgrade the server with better hardware and licensed non-free proprietary software, but also motivating the staff to work harder. ABF will always be free of charge (gratis) to use. However, if everyone donates a small monthly amount, it makes a tremendous difference for the forum's overall quality in the long haul.


User Tag List

Page 47 of 56 FirstFirst ... 37 45 46 47 48 49 ... LastLast
Results 461 to 470 of 560

Thread: Ancient Egyptian Mummy Genomes106 days old

  1. #461
    Regular Member
    Race Scientist Itoli's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2017-04-16
    Posts
    187
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones View Post
    Its quite obvious E1b1b has origins within an eurasian derived population who where phenotypically caucasoid or similar. all over north africa and east africa where these lineages have the most diversity and the oldest subclades we see that caucasoid phenotypes dominate, in the horn/east africa though you can sometimes see some individuals with more negroid/ssa phenotypesdue to admixture with neighboring nilo-saharans/nilotes and even in more recent times mixture with bantus.

    But Mota actually had minor eurasian admixture which explains why he had E1b1b, but he was also living in a cave and presumably his ancestors also did so, which can explain why his eurasian admixture was so minor when its likely at that point in time ethiopians would already have recieved a larger ammount of it.

    Natufians however where shown to carry E1b1b and had no affinity to SSAs whatsoever. And its even shown that this component is the most representative of the eurasian admixture in horners. We also know natufians had a lot of the basal eurasian component which is also unrelated to SSA. Today people witht he most Basal euroasian admixture and probably natufian admixture as well is bedouins. And they have a caucasoid phenotype. The natufian morphology where likely archaic, which can explain why some of the neolithic levantine reconstructions are claimed to have affinity with SSA, but its likely they didnt look negroid or negroid influenced at all and its just archaic features which made them think that.

    So anyone who still claims horner/easy african phenotypes is native to africa is clearly delusional.
    Funny how you note the Natufians carried these lineages without close affinity to Africans, yet, you ignore that E1b is the predominant haplogroup among Africans as a whole, most of whom have no affinity with Eurasians. These are the self critical thought processes you skip when you have an *agenda* I actually already addressed this fallacious eyeball anthropology in a previous post in this thread: http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1292408 It's yet to be countered.

  2. # ADS
    Advertisement bot
    Join Date
    2013-03-24
    Posts
    All threads
       
     

  3. #462
    Regular Member
    Junior Member Roseai's Avatar
    Last Online
    2017-06-20 @ 20:29
    Join Date
    2016-08-09
    Posts
    77
    Gender
    Age
    27
    Race
    Sub-Saharan African
    Phenotype
    Sudanid
    Ethnicity
    African American
    United States Nigeria Ghana Senegal Mali Cameroon

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nee4speed111 View Post
    My comment was more directed at @Roseai , who I felt was opening up a random tangent that contributed nothing to the conversation. My point about cranial measurements, or limb proportions, was that these arguments have been rehashed for years now, from the egyptians to prehistoric Europeans to Native Americans, and all it has shown is that in ancient remains, physical proportions don't seem to be a very good indicator of genetic affinity in these ancient remains. Now, if we were arguing as to how some of these ancient remains would look like, perhaps it would be a relevant argument to make, but as this thread was about the genetic affinity of these samples, and the broader genetic affinity of Ancient Egyptians in general, thus I felt that it was a unnecessary tangent that distracted from the issue at hand, which is why I made the comment.

    But I think we may have come off on the wrong foot, so I apologize for any hostility or hypocrisy that my comment conveyed, I knew your Aryan comment was tongue in cheek so my comment wasn't directed at you.

    When you say North African component, do you mean the Maghrebi component that seems to peak in modern day Tunisians & Berbers, or something different? Yes, I too think modern Egyptians will probably be the closest descendants of Ancient ones, although I think people perhaps exaggerate the difference between lower and upper Egyptians, genetically speaking, other than the outliers that exist in all populations, Egyptians will cluster together whether from Upper or Lower Egypt. Its only when you are talking about Aswan, and to a much lesser extent Luxor, that you see significant deviation from the Egyptian average, and even then it still fits in perfectly well with a Egyptian cline.

    But anyways, sorry again for the poor first impression, its always nice to meet someone else interested in serious academic study of the Nile Valley and broader MENA region, and origins of the peoples living within this region.
    Then stop ignoring Elias and pay less attention to me because he was the one who said Egyptians being Nordics makes more sense. I never said the Egyptians were black, and have never thought that, that's your own projection. I've always thought of them as mixed race.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    It has nothing to do with disgust. Both are preposterous but if I had to guess/classify the ancestry of these Egyptian rulers:




    And the only choices I had, would be Negroid or Nordic, I'd guess them as Nordic every single time. These are clearly Caucasoid facial traits.
    Argument is always trash. Mixed race people can have those facial features. They can also have Caucasian type hair. Which is what the Egyptians were, mixed race. I do not care what a test of one part of Egypt from 100 some people presents. I have a brain in my head so I can think logically.

  4. #463
    Senior Moderator
    Plant of Life = Biological Magic 麻 EliasAlucard's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2009-10-22
    Posts
    12,047
    Location
    Sweden
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    J1a2b2-L147+ CMH-6
    mtDNA
    H5a
    Race
    Caucasian
    Phenotype
    Alpinid
    Metaethnos
    proto-Semitic
    Ethnicity
    Assyrian/Armenian
    Politics
    Ecofascism, Radicalism
    Religion
    Secular Agnostic
    Assyria Assyria 1913-1923 Armenia Lebanon Sweden Greece

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roseai View Post
    Then stop ignoring Elias and pay less attention to me because he was the one who said Egyptians being Nordics makes more sense. I never said the Egyptians were black, and have never thought that, that's your own projection. I've always thought of them as mixed race.
    It doesn't make sense at all that the ancient Egyptians were Nordic, it only makes sense if the alternatives are Nordic or Negroid only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roseai View Post
    Argument is always trash.
    Yeah, that's a good way to describe your arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roseai View Post
    Mixed race people can have those facial features.
    Rarely. Not to that degree anyway, and not consistently for over thousands of years. Those two statues are of Menkaure (2530 BC) and Tuthmosis III (1479–1425 BC) That's like a full millennia separating them, and their facial traits were quite similar still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roseai View Post
    They can also have Caucasian type hair.
    "Can". How many Egyptian rulers have been depicted with anything resembling an afro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roseai View Post
    Which is what the Egyptians were, mixed race.
    Not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roseai View Post
    I do not care what a test of one part of Egypt from 100 some people presents.
    Well we're going to be getting a lot more tests eventually, and they'll all show, from various Egyptian rulers covering thousands of years, that the Egyptians were less Negroid admixed than modern Copts. This is of course especially true the earlier back in dynastic times the specimens are from.

    You can then continue being delusional about your mixed Egyptians belief. Modern Egyptians have less than 20% Negroid admixture, and it's super unlikely that the ancient Egyptians were more mixed than modern Egyptians are. That's not to say I'm totally ruling out any Negroid admixture in the ancient Egyptians, I mean I personally wouldn't be surprised if they had something like 10% SSA admixture or along those lines, but it sure as hell wasn't anything like 50/50.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roseai View Post
    I have a brain in my head so I can think logically.
    How do you know it's logical? I mean you're clearly wrong on this stuff, so either you can't think logically, or your brain is filled with disinformation.

    Anyway, out of all the Egyptian sculptures I've seen, I think Taharqa looks the most black, and he was Nubian or something like that:



    And he was defeated and driven out of Egypt by the Assyrians I'm pretty sure my racist ancestors wouldn't have bothered invading Egypt and saving it from Nubian supremacy, if the throne of Egypt hadn't been taken over by some black dude
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2017-04-21 at 17:10.
    ReactOS <--- support this project so that we can get rid of Windows!
    Ubuntu MATE 16.04.1 LTS | PRISM-Break! | Windows7sins

    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

    “Damnant quod non intelligunt.” ― Latin proverb

    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

  5. #464
    Established Member
    Evolutionary Biologist
    Last Online
    Today @ 19:48
    Join Date
    2015-09-03
    Posts
    235
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    J1-P58
    mtDNA
    T2b
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Phenotype
    Alpinid
    GEDmatch
    m735006

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    It doesn't make sense at all that the ancient Egyptians were Nordic, it only makes sense if the alternatives are Nordic or Negroid only.

    Yeah, that's a good way to describe your arguments.

    Rarely. Not to that degree anyway, and not consistently for over thousands of years. Those two statues are of Menkaure (2530 BC) and Tuthmosis III (1479–1425 BC) That's like a full millennia separating them, and their facial traits were quite similar still.

    "Can". How many Egyptian rulers have been depicted with anything resembling an afro?

    Not really.

    Well we're going to be getting a lot more tests eventually, and they'll all show, from various Egyptian rulers covering thousands of years, that the Egyptians were less Negroid admixed than modern Copts. This is of course especially true the earlier back in dynastic times the specimens are from.

    You can then continue being delusional about your mixed Egyptians belief. Modern Egyptians have less than 20% Negroid admixture, and it's super unlikely that the ancient Egyptians were more mixed than modern Egyptians are. That's not to say I'm totally ruling out any Negroid admixture in the ancient Egyptians, I mean I personally wouldn't be surprised if they had something like 10% SSA admixture or along those lines, but it sure as hell wasn't anything like 50/50.

    How do you know it's logical? I mean you're clearly wrong on this stuff, so either you can't think logically, or your brain is filled with disinformation.

    Anyway, out of all the Egyptian sculptures I've seen, I think Taharqa looks the most black, and he was Nubian or something like that:



    And he was defeated and driven out of Egypt by the Assyrians I'm pretty sure my racist ancestors wouldn't have bothered invading Egypt and saving it from Nubian supremacy, if the throne of Egypt hadn't been taken over by some black dude
    Habibi no need for the racist black remarks... you are better than that habibi... I dont like to go by what I think but rather by what evidence has been presented thus far at hand which is that Egyptians seem to have gotten blacker or more "african" as time went on and that Copts are more representative of ancient egyptians and have less african dna . I myself have 11% east african dna and to me is quite negligible in comparison to my big chunk of near eastern dna. Based on evidence thus far it makes more sense to conclude near eastern ancestry for ancient egyptians but this can always change. I dont doubt ancient egyptians had a nilotic element in the country but not as a majority element.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Desertrose For This Useful Post:

    mhagneto49 (2017-04-22), nee4speed111 (2017-04-23), pgbk87 (2017-04-22)

  7. #465
    Wiki Editor
    Moderator
    Your favourite (((Skype))) Semitic Duwa's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-02-26
    Posts
    2,813
    Location
    In your closet
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    J1-Z18271 (YSC234+)
    mtDNA
    J1c5
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Metaethnos
    (((Skype))) + British
    Ethnicity
    (((Shasu of Yhw)))
    Politics
    Pump & Trump
    Religion
    Jehovah's Fitness
    Israel Israel Star of David Israel Israel

    Default

    Cut the crap about AEs being mixed race or what have you, unless you're willing to back this up with data I'm just going to delete that kind of talk.

    //mod
    لأَنَّ فِي كَثْـــرَةِ الْحِكْمَةِ كَثْـــرَةُ الْغَمِّ
    وَالَّذِي يَزِيـــدُ عِلْماً يَزِيـــدُ حُزْناً



  8. #466
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist nee4speed111's Avatar
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:02
    Join Date
    2011-12-01
    Posts
    360
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertrose View Post
    Habibi no need for the racist black remarks... you are better than that habibi... I dont like to go by what I think but rather by what evidence has been presented thus far at hand which is that Egyptians seem to have gotten blacker or more "african" as time went on and that Copts are more representative of ancient egyptians and have less african dna . I myself have 11% east african dna and to me is quite negligible in comparison to my big chunk of near eastern dna. Based on evidence thus far it makes more sense to conclude near eastern ancestry for ancient egyptians but this can always change. I dont doubt ancient egyptians had a nilotic element in the country but not as a majority element.
    At this point, I just want the data to be published, so I can compare our DNA to theirs and see where the similarities and differences lie. It should be very fascinating, once more testing is done from all regions of Egypt, throughout the Dynastic and pre-dynastic era, so we can finally figure out what exactly we are in terms of genetic composition, and how much ancestry we have absorbed from outside over the past couple thousand years.

  9. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to nee4speed111 For This Useful Post:

    beyoku (2017-04-23), EliasAlucard (2017-04-23), mhagneto49 (2017-04-23), pgbk87 (2017-04-23), Semitic Duwa (2017-04-23)

  10. #467
    Established Member
    Evolutionary Biologist
    Last Online
    Today @ 19:48
    Join Date
    2015-09-03
    Posts
    235
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    J1-P58
    mtDNA
    T2b
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Phenotype
    Alpinid
    GEDmatch
    m735006

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nee4speed111 View Post
    At this point, I just want the data to be published, so I can compare our DNA to theirs and see where the similarities and differences lie. It should be very fascinating, once more testing is done from all regions of Egypt, throughout the Dynastic and pre-dynastic era, so we can finally figure out what exactly we are in terms of genetic composition, and how much ancestry we have absorbed from outside over the past couple thousand years.
    I think that paternally speaking most copts obciously descend from ancint egyptians based on our haplogroups with about 20-30% being j1 semitic and j2 and the rest etc...the question is autosomally who are we from... thats what Im most interested in..

  11. #468
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist
    Last Online
    Today @ 19:30
    Join Date
    2010-01-07
    Posts
    3,762
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    E1b1a8*
    mtDNA
    L0a1a2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertrose View Post
    I think that paternally speaking most copts obciously descend from ancint egyptians based on our haplogroups with about 20-30% being j1 semitic and j2 and the rest etc...the question is autosomally who are we from... thats what Im most interested in..
    I wouldn't be quite clear to call that just yet. Like I have asked before, If you are speaking of E and the African paternal lineages of this sample are just as small as their maternal lineages THEN what?

  12. #469
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2015-01-05
    Posts
    314
    Location
    Sweden
    Gender
    Religion
    Buddhism

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Itoli View Post
    Funny how you note the Natufians carried these lineages without close affinity to Africans, yet, you ignore that E1b is the predominant haplogroup among Africans as a whole, most of whom have no affinity with Eurasians. These are the self critical thought processes you skip when you have an *agenda* I actually already addressed this fallacious eyeball anthropology in a previous post in this thread: http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1292408 It's yet to be countered.
    Thats not a legitimate argument. The E clades that other africans share with east africans have a very old split. E1a and E1b are very old. But even with the more recent clades, we know y haplogroups where spread around through africa relatively recently with the bantu migrations, so even if the E clades of other africans came from east africa and ultimately came from euroasia they would have been so diluted at this point that only trace affinity to eurasians would still be visible.

    then you can add the issue of the fact that haplogroups usually end up being classified into newer subclades as the research gets extended.

    As for your earlier post. Horn/east africans are not the source population for OOA, it was already established by genetics that the OOA group didnt look anything like horners/east africans and didnt have any relation genetically tot hem either. Modern east africans are the result of dinka like natives which evolved their in isolation after OOA, and back migrating eurasians which looked similar to arabs/middle eastern people. So no their phenotype is not native to africa.

    That paleolithic east african skull, do you have any source for that proving it is actually that old and from east africa? the Skhul and Hafze skulls most likely represent a line of humans that didnt pass on their lineage and simply died out.
    And that neolithic levant remodeled skull you showed, if that is supposed to be a natufian, it could be an admixed individual, or an outlier. Even so they have stated he had a broken nose and that the jaw they used for the model was taken from another ancient skull from a region nearby, because the state of the jericho skull was to damaged to 3d model on its own. So we cannot expect it to be very accurate, and regardless its just one old individual and he looks ambiguous at best most likely due to the damage the skull had sustained.

  13. #470
    Established Member
    Evolutionary Biologist
    Last Online
    Today @ 19:48
    Join Date
    2015-09-03
    Posts
    235
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    J1-P58
    mtDNA
    T2b
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Phenotype
    Alpinid
    GEDmatch
    m735006

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    I wouldn't be quite clear to call that just yet. Like I have asked before, If you are speaking of E and the African paternal lineages of this sample are just as small as their maternal lineages THEN what?
    im not sure what you mean..

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Desertrose For This Useful Post:

    beyoku (2017-04-24)

Page 47 of 56 FirstFirst ... 37 45 46 47 48 49 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Predynastic Egyptian mummy Gebelein man B
    By AlpArslan in forum Egyptology
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 2017-06-13, 00:02
  2. Revisiting the Ancient Egyptian Identity
    By Mela-nun in forum Physical Anthropology
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 2015-10-10, 21:44
  3. Have no genome bloggers analyzed the ancient Thracian genomes?
    By Arch Hades in forum General Genetics Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 2015-09-07, 13:37
  4. Ancient Egyptian frescos
    By Ubirajara in forum Africa
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 2012-11-18, 22:08
  5. Ancient Egyptian Demographic Proportions
    By Doctoris Scientia in forum History
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2011-06-17, 15:17

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
<