First J2* is an Armenian (per FTDNA J Project)

[Humanist]

An excerpt of the announcement, taken from the FTDNA J Haplogroup Project page:

May 19th, 2010

Since [the] project was founded in 2006, this is the first J2* person...seen! That is, he is positive for the M172 SNP, but negative for both M410 and M12...Interested researchers may compare it to J2a and J2b haplotypes and see the similarities and differences with each.

His ethnicity is Armenian. The Armenians have shown the greatest diversity of members of such rare, basal lineages of any localized ethnic group so far. This intriguing phenomenon suggests that the earliest population in which the haplogroup J first arose is well represented in the Armenians. It would be valuable to have more participants from other peoples closely related to them and from the areas surrounding their homeland.

Heed the call, men! His most distant known Y-DNA ancestor was from Tomarza, Turkey.

[sgh]

[Quote] "This intriguing phenomenon suggests that the earliest population in which the haplogroup J first arose is well represented in the Armenians"

I'm not sure what this is saying...is it saying that J originated with the Armenians or simply that it is well represented among them? I haven't had my coffee yet...my brain is still half asleep lol.

[Mike the Jedi]

According to 23andme, I'm just J2 by itself as well. Am I a freak of numbers, too, or they cheating me out of my subclades?

[Grasshoppa]

According to 23andme, I'm just J2 by itself as well. Am I a freak of numbers, too, or they cheating me out of my subclades?

Probably this.

[The_Majerten]

Probably this.

I don't think so, Ethioboy had the same problem (didn't get any deeper clades than E1b1b) so he tested himself at ftdna and still remained at the ancestral state of E1b1b*

[Stefan]

According to 23andme, I'm just J2 by itself as well. Am I a freak of numbers, too, or they cheating me out of my subclades?

Yep same with me. Maybe they don't have sufficient enough data to determine the all subclades?

[Mike the Jedi]

That's what I thought, but then again there are plenty of J2-descended people on the site that have been given their proper subclades. I'm not sure what the dealio is.

---------- Post added 2010-05-20 at 21:09 ----------

Using the Ancestry Labs feature called Haplogroup Tree Mutation Mapper, one can see the defining mutations used to determine haplogroups and subclades. 23andme gives the mutations for J2a and J2a1 as "N/A" though the ones for J2a1b and so on are listed. That's weird. The mutations for J2b are listed as well, so I'm guessing we fall somewhere in the J2a or J2a1 category and the site just lacks the data to tell us what the hell we are. Bastards.

[Stefan]

That's what I thought, but then again there are plenty of J2-descended people on the site that have been given their proper subclades. I'm not sure what the dealio is.

Maybe they don't have identifying SNPs that could determinine some subclades, and that is why we only have J2, since all the SNPs they have to identify the subclades they do have are negative, but they do test SNPs for other mutations that identify for other subclades in others. That is the only other reason I could think of. I guess to be certain we would have to find somebody who has only J2 on 23andme, but with more specific subclades in a company that tests STRs opposed SNPs, or maybe even other SNP-based companies that have a more detailed analysis.

edit:

Using the Ancestry Labs feature called Haplogroup Tree Mutation Mapper, one can see the defining mutations used to determine haplogroups and subclades. 23andme gives the mutations for J2a and J2a1 as "N/A" though the ones for J2a1b and so on are listed. That's weird. The mutations for J2b are listed as well, so I'm guessing we fall somewhere in the J2a or J2a1 category and the site just lacks the data to tell us what the hell we are. Bastards.

That makes sense as well. Maybe in the future with updates we'll get a better picture.

[Graeme]

23andMe only look for commonly known SNPs on their chip for the Y Chromosome. Whereas FTDNA keep up with the latest known SNPs, but they don't implement the newer ones to their nomenclature until some time has passed and the newer ones are used by everyone. There have been quite a few new, recently found SNPs in all haplogroups, the latest are listed on ISOGG. You might be lucky in that the latest SNPs are actually listed, and are also on the 23andMe chip. It pays to check your raw data.

I don't know what the surprise is with the Armenian being J2*. It has been established a few times already that the haplogroup J family originated in the northern Middle East/Anatolian/Caucasus region, and that includes J*, J1* and J2*, the only thing not established is the origin point for the downward SNPs, subclades of the J family, other than J1* and J-P58 which also originated in the north of the Middle East. Some subclades of J2 obviously have a European origin, but which and when, is not known exactly.

[Grasshoppa]

I wonder what Caine would say about this.