User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 11 to 17 of 17

Thread: Assyrian Monotheism3607 days old

  1. #11
    Established Member
    Member
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-01-29
    Posts
    6,302
    Location
    New York, US
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    G1*
    mtDNA
    HV4a2a
    Metaethnos
    Mesopotamian
    Ethnicity
    Suraya
    Religion
    Transhumanism
    United States Assyria United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Hey, you never know.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Humanist For This Useful Post:

    Silesian (2012-01-23)

  3. # ADS
    Advertisement bot
    Join Date
    2013-03-24
    Location
    ForumBiodiversity.com
    Posts
    All threads
       
     

  4. #12
    Established Member
    Member
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-01-29
    Posts
    6,302
    Location
    New York, US
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    G1*
    mtDNA
    HV4a2a
    Metaethnos
    Mesopotamian
    Ethnicity
    Suraya
    Religion
    Transhumanism
    United States Assyria United States

    Default

    On both Assyrians and Chaldeans. The clip, towards the bottom of the post, is a Mandaean priest saying a few words about their faith. Whether it is related to what is written below is open to debate. Mandaeans, before becoming what is now a largely Arabic-speaking community, spoke a Babylonian-Aramaic dialect as a vernacular. Their particular dialect of Aramaic, Mandaic, has many loanwords from Akkadian. A great deal of those loans are specific to the religion of our forefathers. See the paragraph, farthest below, for a list of some Akkadian loanwords in Mandaic.*

    Hippolitus: (170 – 235 AD)

    Hippolitus: Refutation of All Heresies
    BOOK V.

    CHAP. II.--NAASSENI ASCRIBE THEIR SYSTEM, THROUGH MARIAMNE, TO JAMES THE LORD'S BROTHER; REALLY TRACEABLE TO THE ANCIENT MYSTERIES; THEIR PSYCHOLOGY AS GIVEN IN THE "GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THOMAS;" ASSYRIAN THEORY OF THE SOUL; THE SYSTEMS OF THE NAASSENI AND THE ASSYRIANS COMPARED; SUPPORT DRAWN BY THE NAASSENI FROM THE PHRYGIAN AND EGYPTIAN MYSTERIES; THE MYSTERIES OF ISIS; THESE MYSTERIES ALLEGORIZED BY THE NAASSENI.

    "Now earth," say the Greeks, "gave forth a man, (earth) first bearing a goodly gift, wishing to become mother not of plants devoid of sense, nor beasts without reason, but of a gentle and highly favoured creature." "It, however, is difficult," (the Naassene) says, "to ascertain whether Alalcomeneus, first of men, rose upon the Boeotians over Lake Cephisus; or whether it were the Idaean Curetes, a divine race; or the Phrygian Corybantes, whom first the sun beheld springing up after the manner of the growth of trees; or whether Arcadia brought forth Pelasgus, of greater antiquity than the moon; or Eleusis (produced) Diaulus, an inhabitant of Raria; or Lemnus begot Cabirus, fair child of secret orgies; or Pallerie (brought forth) the Phlegraean Alcyoneus, oldest of the giants. But the Libyans affirm that Iarbas, first born, on emerging from arid plains, commenced eating the sweet acorn of Jupiter. But the Nile of the Egyptians," he says, "up to this day fertilizing mud, (and therefore) generating animals, renders up living bodies, which acquire flesh from moist vapour." The Assyrians, however, say that fish-eating Oannes was (the first man, and) produced among themselves. The Chaldeans, however, say that this Adam is the man whom alone earth brought forth. And that he lay inanimate, unmoved, (and) still as a statue; being an image of him who is above, who is celebrated as the man Adam, having been begotten by many powers, concerning whom individually is an enlarged discussion.

    In order, therefore, that finally the Great Man from above may be overpowered, "from whom," as they say, "the whole family named on earth and in the heavens has been formed, to him was given also a soul, that through the soul he might suffer; and that the enslaved image may be punished of the Great and most Glorious and Perfect Man, for even so they call him. Again, then, they ask what is the soul, and whence, and what kind in its nature, that, coming to the man and moving him, it should enslave and punish the image of the Perfect Man. They do not, however, (on this point) institute an inquiry from the Scriptures, but ask this (question) also from the mystic (rites). And they affirm that the soul is very difficult to discover, and hard to understand; for it does not remain in the same figure or the same form invariably, or in one passive condition, that either one could express it by a sign, or comprehend it substantially.

    But they have these varied changes (of the soul) set down in the gospel inscribed "according to the Egyptians." They are, then, in doubt, as all the rest of men among the Gentiles, whether (the soul) is at all from something pre-existent, or whether from the self-produced (one), or from a widespread Chaos. And first they fly for refuge to the mysteries of the Assyrians, perceiving the threefold division of the man; for the Assyrians first advanced the opinion that the soul has three parts, and yet (is essentially) one. For of soul, say they, is every nature desirous, and each in a different manner. For soul is cause of all things made; all things that are nourished, (the Naassene) says, and that grow, require soul. For it is not possible, he says, to obtain any nourishment or growth where soul is not present. For even stones, he affirms, are animated, for they possess what is capable of increase; but increase would not at any time take place without nourishment, for it is by accession that things which are being increased grow, but accession is the nourishment of things that are nurtured. Every nature, then, as of thins celestial and (the Naasene) says, of things celestial, and earthly, and infernal, desires a soul. And an entity of this description the Assyrians call Adonis or Endymion; and when it is styled Adonis, Venus, he says, loves and desires the soul when styled by such a name.
    Mandaean Priest: "Mandaeans believe that they follow Adam as the first prophet and messenger."

    *
    In the area of loanwords, Mandaic inherited from Akkadian an abundance of termini technici concerning religion, but also many words in other areas. Despite the limitation in its attested lexicon, due to the loss of texts, Mandaic shows more Akkadian borrowings than any other Aramaic dialect. The Mandaean gnostic sect recruited from a Babylonian population, and a stock of Akkadian words had belonged to the idiom of that geographical area for some centuries. Particular borrowings in Mandaic are: priest classes, cult, divination, and magic terms: brʾyʾ < bartū “diviner,” zʾbʾ 2 “esoteric priests,” gynyʾ “sacrifice,” ʿkwrʾ < ekurru “temple,” prykʾ < parakku “altar, shrine,” pyšrʾ < pišru “dissolving of a magic bond,” ʾšp < ašāpu “to bewitch,” šʾptʾ < šiptu “incantation”; terms concerning the gnostic doctrine and cult: gynyʾ < ginû “sanctuaries,” zywʾ < zīmu “brilliance,” nʾndbyʾ < nindabû “offering,” nʾṣwrʾyʾ “watcher of secrets,” nʾṣyrwtʾ “secrecy” < niṣirtu; architectional terms: ʾngrʾ < agāru “wall,”roof,” kšwrʾ < gušūru “beam, post”; body parts: gysʾ 2 “side”; ktʾ < qātu “hand, handle,” šʾyryʾnʾ < “vein, artery”; directions of the wind, name of winds, astronomical terms: šʾrʾ <šārū “direction of the wind,” stʾnʾ < ištānu north(wind), ywniʾ 2 <ūmu 3 “storm,” tʾlyʾ < attala “eclipse.”

    Dr. Christa Müller-Kessler

    Originally Published: July 20, 2009


    ---------- Post added 2012-01-25 at 15:47 ----------

    Wikipedia:
    Funerary stele of Licinia Amias, one of the most ancient Christian inscriptions. Upper tier: dedication to the Dis Manibus and Christian motto in Greek letters ΙΧΘΥC ΖΩΝΤΩΝ / Ikhthus zōntōn ("fish of the living"); middle tier: depiction of fish and an anchor; lower tier: Latin inscription “LICINIAE AMIATI BE/NEMERENTI VIXIT”. Marble, early 3rd century CE. From the area of the Vatican necropolis, Rome.


    Ichthys, from Koine Greek: ἰχθύς, (capitalized ΙΧΘΥΣ or ΙΧΘΥϹ) is the Greek word for "fish". (Alternative transliterations include Ichthus and Ikhthus[citation needed]). In English, this refers to a symbol consisting of two intersecting arcs, the ends of the right side extending beyond the meeting point so as to resemble the profile of a fish, used by early Christians as a secret symbol[1] and now known colloquially as the "sign of the fish" or the "Jesus fish."[2]

  5. #13
    Established Member
    Member
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-01-29
    Posts
    6,302
    Location
    New York, US
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    G1*
    mtDNA
    HV4a2a
    Metaethnos
    Mesopotamian
    Ethnicity
    Suraya
    Religion
    Transhumanism
    United States Assyria United States

    Default

    Some more on the Assyro-Babylonian (Sumero-Akkadian) god Oannes/Dagon/Ea/Enki, referred to in the above post.

    At first they led a somewhat wretched existence and lived without rule after the manner of beasts. But, in the first year appeared an animal endowed with human reason, named Oannes, who rose from out of the Erythian Sea, at the point where it borders Babylonia. He had the whole body of a fish, but above his fish’s head he had another head which was that of a man, and human feet emerged from beneath his fish’s tail. He had a human voice, and an image of him is preserved unto this day. He passed the day in the midst of men without taking food; he taught them the use of letters, sciences and arts of all kinds. He taught them to construct cities, to found temples, to compile laws, and explained to them the principles of geometrical knowledge. He made them distinguish the seeds of the earth, and showed them how to collect the fruits; in short he instructed them in everything which could tend to soften human manners and humanize their laws. From that time nothing material has been added by way of improvement to his instructions. And when the sun set, this being Oannes, retired again into the sea, for he was amphibious. After this there appeared other animals like Oannes.

    Berossus
    Berossus (also Berossos or Berosus; Akkadian: Bēl-rē'ušu, "Bel is his shepherd" Greek: Βήρωσσος[1]) was a Hellenistic-era Babylonian writer, a priest of Bel Marduk[2] and astronomer writing in Greek, who was active at the beginning of the 3rd century BC. Versions of two excerpts of his writings survive, at several removes.

  6. #14
    Established Member
    Member
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2010-01-29
    Posts
    6,302
    Location
    New York, US
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    G1*
    mtDNA
    HV4a2a
    Metaethnos
    Mesopotamian
    Ethnicity
    Suraya
    Religion
    Transhumanism
    United States Assyria United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Some more on the Assyro-Babylonian (Sumero-Akkadian) god Oannes/Dagon/Ea/Enki, referred to in the above post.
    If one believes in the southern Mesopotamian location of "Ur of the Chaldees," Oannes' supposed origin is not far removed, based on the accounts of Berossus:
    At first they led a somewhat wretched existence and lived without rule after the manner of beasts. But, in the first year appeared an animal endowed with human reason, named Oannes, who rose from out of the Erythian Sea, at the point where it borders Babylonia.

    And when the sun set, this being Oannes, retired again into the sea, for he was amphibious. After this there appeared other animals like Oannes.
    Wiki, on Abraham:
    Abraham, whose birth name was Abram, is the eponym of the Abrahamic religions, among which are Judaism, Christianity and Islam. According to both the Hebrew Bible[1] and the Qur'an, through his sons Ishmael and Isaac, Abraham is the forefather of many tribes, including the Ishmaelites, Israelites, Midianites and Edomites.[1] Abraham was a descendant of Noah's son, Shem.[2][3] Christians believe that Jesus was a descendant of Abraham through Isaac, and Muslims believe that Muhammad was also descendant of Abraham through Ishmael.[4]

  7. #15
    Wiki Editor
    Established Member
    Fimbulvetr's owner Simi's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2012-10-27
    Posts
    785
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    R1a1a*
    mtDNA
    U5a1b
    Metaethnos
    Corded Ware
    Ethnicity
    Swedish/Czech
    Politics
    Authoritarian

    Default

    How do modern religious Assyrians percieve the ancient Assyrians? Since old Ashurism was monotheistic, do modern Assyrian priests regard ancient Assyrians as "religiously correct" for the time? Or are they regarded as heathens pre-Christianization?

  8. #16
    Wiki Editor
    Established Member
    Fimbulvetr's owner Simi's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2012-10-27
    Posts
    785
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    R1a1a*
    mtDNA
    U5a1b
    Metaethnos
    Corded Ware
    Ethnicity
    Swedish/Czech
    Politics
    Authoritarian

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simi View Post
    How do modern religious Assyrians percieve the ancient Assyrians? Since old Ashurism was monotheistic, do modern Assyrian priests regard ancient Assyrians as "religiously correct" for the time? Or are they regarded as heathens pre-Christianization?
    Doesn't anyone know?

  9. #17
    Senior Moderator
    Plant of Life = Biological Magic 麻 EliasAlucard's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2009-10-22
    Posts
    14,715
    Location
    Sweden
    Gender
    Age
    34
    Y-DNA
    J1a2a1a2-P58+
    mtDNA
    H5a
    Race
    Caucasian
    Phenotype
    Alpinid
    Metaethnos
    proto-Semitic
    Ethnicity
    Assyrian/Armenian
    Politics
    Environment, Cannabis
    Religion
    Secular Agnostic
    Assyria Assyria 1913-1923 Armenia Lebanon Sweden Greece

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simi View Post
    How do modern religious Assyrians percieve the ancient Assyrians? Since old Ashurism was monotheistic, do modern Assyrian priests regard ancient Assyrians as "religiously correct" for the time? Or are they regarded as heathens pre-Christianization?
    I regard it as a, basically, tribal religion, which wasn't universal in the sense that it wasn't really a proselytizing religion, but also not really closed to non-Assyrians either. It was also not textbook monotheism, but something perhaps, in that direction. However, it was probably not any more monotheistic than for example the ancient Greek religion, with Zeus as its highest tribal deity (or, to borrow a funny Swedish expression, "högsta hönset"). The term "henotheism" is accurate for Assyrian polytheism.

    From what I've read, the priesthood in ancient Mesopotamia was more of a theocracy in Babylon (the Babylonian priesthood had a lot of say-so on the Babylonian kings), whereas in Assyria, it was more strictly a military dictatorship, with the Assyrian king(s) as absolute ruler, and the Assyrian monarch was actually quite similar to the modern papacy, as someone who represented God on earth (in fact, Simo Parpola has argued that the papacy is quite influenced by Assyrian monarchy in that regard). I guess you could also say that the Assyrian king was also the ultimate priest in his own way, as he was also a religious leader of sorts, and actually seen as "God incarnate" somehow (Parpola has argued this, if I remember correctly). So, a lot of the ideas for Christianity, were ultimately borrowed from or influenced by Assyrian school of thought. This is of course not only true for Christianity, but also Islam; both these Abrahamic off-shoots, took their own preferred ideas from the Mesopotamian 'meme-pool' of religious ideas, and clearly, Islam favored the militaristic aspects of Assyrian theology.

    @Semitic Duwa I'm sure can fill in with his 2 cents on this, in any case.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2016-10-12 at 22:44.
    ReactOS <--- support this project so that we can get rid of Windows!
    Ubuntu MATE 16.04.1 LTS | PRISM-Break! | Windows7sins

    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

    “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” ― H. L. Mencken

    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

    “Damnant quod non intelligunt.” ― Latin proverb

    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to EliasAlucard For This Useful Post:

    redifflal (2016-10-12), Simi (2016-10-12)

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Similar Threads

  1. Assyrian DNA on Fox News, Nineveh Dinha (GeneTree)
    By EliasAlucard in forum Genetic DNA Companies
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 2013-01-12, 19:05
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 2012-02-14, 05:58

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
<