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Thread: Is there a diference between Sudanid and Congoloid features?3105 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by bandar qasim View Post
    the term 'sudanid' is bit of a misnomer, it refers to the most common west african phenotype rather than what is common in sudan. Historically arabs refered to the southern fringe of the sahara stretching from present-day senegal to sudan as "bilad al sudan" (land of the blacks) and the name stuck only recently with the modern republic. Sudan itself was known as funj, nuba, sennaar, kordofan, darfur, etc
    Yup. QFT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oditous View Post
    She does look very ghanaian too btw, coastal palenegrid type. Kinda like this girl also from ghana

    [imglink]http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Africa/divinea.jpg[/imglink]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    The lady's portrait, the one in braids is Sudanid.
    Quote Originally Posted by oditous View Post
    Nah, she's unmistakingly coastal westafrican to me, too edgy cheekbones to be angolan, also the almond eyeshape seems much more frequent in westafrica than in centralafrica.

    ghanaians can be sudanids too, but she's not one of them. compare with this ghanaian girl who i consider to be much more of a prototype sudanid

    [imglink]http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Africa/Clipboard05-2.jpg[/imglink]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    Yes, the girl you have posted in the second is Sudanid.
    The woman with the braids resemble this girl here, she's sudanid.
    They are very much similar but I do admit the woman has minor Palaenegrid influence. Still, she's pred. Sudanid.
    The girl is found on SNPA.
    Quote Originally Posted by oditous View Post
    ^she's somewhat similar yeah but wouldn't classify her as sudanid either. Maybe a PN-sudanid intermediate. You do agree there's a difference between them and the clearly sudanid example i posted right?

    Generally i think the african samples pics used by old school anthro literature suck. It should be redone in a proper way

    That pic is from Human Races by G.Glowatzki , can't say i'm impressed by the samples he's using for other (sub)races either
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    Both subjects that I've posted is not PN or predominately PN. Paleonegrids are a flt cheek and eye area, weak chins, turned up nostils, short-skulled an occurrance of epilcanthus. The original subject has lowered jawline, which is obvious in all Sudanid people. You show me an example of PN and I'll show you mine.
    We don't have any profiles for both ladies, that would probably settle the matter as Sudanids usually have a projecting occiput and more prognathy than PN's who usually have a more rounded back of the head.

    I don't take descriptions of PN's all too literally though, to me outstanding features are wide face, brachy/mesocephalic, projecting cheekbones, often almond eyes although very big eyes are also common, stocky bodytype and usually not tall. Basically it's the type that's mostly found along coastal westafrica and more specifically the Gulf of Guinea countries. I use the term freely but many will be PN-Sudanid intermediates strictly speaking.

    They are related to and have much overlap with the bantuid types of angola/congo/gabon, but i do distinguish between the two because the bantuid (or congolese PN) types seem to have more "smoothed out" features and contours overall.

    Anyways here some examples from Nigeria and Ghana. i actually think a less edgier variant of PN also exists in the savannah zone of WA. As in that there's widefaced roundskulled people over there as well, but they are often mixed with sahelid types.
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    Last edited by oditous; 2011-06-20 at 01:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oditous View Post

    Anyways here some examples from Nigeria and Ghana. i actually think a less edgier variant of PN also exists in the savannah zone of WA. As in that there's widefaced roundskulled people over there as well, but they are often mixed with sahelid types.
    There is more than enough for me to classify.
    Most of the pictures you've posted are progressive; Some more PN influenced, some less of it. Yes. PN is a result of Sudanid and Bantuid/Kafrid breeding. The projecting occipital area is not a PN element, which is true.
    Last edited by Jason; 2011-06-20 at 02:14.

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    Here are some more examples of Palaenegrids
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    We are using the term "congoid" and "Palaenegrids" to mean the same thing yes? So who is a mix of who now?

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    No, "Congoid" = "Negroid." Paleonegrid is a subtype just like Sudanid, Bambutid, Kafrid, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonboyclem View Post
    ^ [/URL]

    Paleonegrid(Gulf of guinea)

    http://74.54.19.227/GHP/img/pics/81286808.jpg

    [/URL]
    That's not a good example of the palaenegrid subtype. The others are on point. Igbo isn't a subtype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    That's not a good example of the palaenegrid subtype. The others are on point. Igbo isn't a subtype.
    Sahelid was an Anthroforum creation also.

    Igboid should be its own subtype, because of the higher instances of lighter skin found in Southeastern Nigeria and Cameroon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    PN is a result of Sudanid and Bantuid/Kafrid breeding.
    I don't think so, both linguistics and genetics seems to suggest it's the other way around. Palaenegrids (from coastal westafrica) would actually be the oldest substratum, going by the name palae-negrid that's also how their classification was first conceived by anthropologists.

    Bantuids (bantu speaking people in central/eastern/southern africa) are an offshoot from a protobantu speaking people originally living in the borderzone between savannah and rainforest somewhere in SE Nigeria. They would have been a population consisting of either sudanids, PN's or maybe already mostly sudanid/PN intermediates. Depending on the subregion there's also additional elements in bantuid people (khoisanid/pygmyoid/aethiopid/nilotid). That's why i don't use PN for bantu speaking people in centralafrica (Congo/Angola).

    This is also confirmed in the african ancestry project where various bantu speaking peoples were found to show considerable affinity with either pygmy, san or maasai besides the principal component of "nigercongo" ancestry which they share with westafrican yoruba and brong.
    Last edited by oditous; 2011-06-21 at 22:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonboyclem View Post
    Sahelid was an Anthroforum creation also.

    Igboid should be its own subtype, because of the higher instances of lighter skin found in Southeastern Nigeria and Cameroon.
    Igbos could be a subtype within a subtype like Sahelids, which her high headed Sudanids.
    Is that man you representing igbo American?
    The Palenegrid subject should be switched with the Bantuid one. PNs have short and round heads and flatted, flared noses.


    ---------- Post added 2011-06-22 at 01:12 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by oditous View Post
    I don't think so, both linguistics and genetics seems to suggest it's the other way around. Palaenegrids (from coastal westafrica) would actually be the oldest substratum, going by the name palae-negrid that's also how their classification was first conceived by anthropologists.

    Bantuids (bantu speaking people in central/eastern/southern africa) are an offshoot from a protobantu speaking people originally living in the borderzone between savannah and rainforest somewhere in SE Nigeria. They would have been a population consisting of either sudanids, PN's or maybe already mostly sudanid/PN intermediates. Depending on the subregion there's also additional elements in bantuid people (khoisanid/pygmyoid/aethiopid/nilotid). That's why i don't use PN for bantu speaking people in centralafrica (Congo/Angola).

    This is also confirmed in the african ancestry project where various bantu speaking peoples were found to show considerable affinity with either pygmy, san or maasai besides the principal component of "nigercongo" ancestry which they share with westafrican yoruba and brong.
    PNs could be an old negroid race because they have paleolithic features.

    Yes. We both agreed to most PNs being progressive due to the inbreeding with Sudanids.
    Many people are usually composites of 2 races. Some are extreme or close to it. It depends.

    I don't expect people to take extreme characteristics of one subrace. That's why I say 'predominately' with a minor.

    I don't go by tribes, I go by crainofacial features.
    Last edited by Jason; 2011-06-22 at 02:16.

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