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Thread: What is the most genetically British region in the Americas?3203 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducheff View Post
    White Americans are mostly of English descent, a fact. What happens is that this English ancestry is often very old, from the 18th century or maybe earlier, and latter those people mixed with Germans, Irish and other immigrants, so many Americans claim to be of German descent because they have a more recent German ancestor, when in fact most of them are still mostly English.
    Defintely not 100% true. I live in the Midwest of the U.S. most of us here (excluding my families) are not of English Descent. The part of the midwest I live in is strongly of German ancestry. Both sides of my family didn't get here to the late 19th century and early 20th, and we aren't Anglo mixed.

    So, what your saying doesn't speak whole for white Americans. I will not deny that a lot of them are Anglo mixed, but not all are of Anglo/British Isles descent. My case is proof enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliades View Post
    Defintely not 100% true. I live in the Midwest of the U.S. most of us here (excluding my families) are not of English Descent. The part of the midwest I live in is strongly of German ancestry. Both sides of my family didn't get here to the late 19th century and early 20th, and we aren't Anglo mixed.

    So, what your saying doesn't speak whole for white Americans. I will not deny that a lot of them are Anglo mixed, but not all are of Anglo/British Isles descent. My case is proof enough.
    It doesn't apply to all americans but there are definitely more people descended of british isles combined and Ireland than from anywhere else. Most americans have some anglo/irish in them.
    Last edited by Debian; 2010-12-25 at 04:52.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Anodyne View Post
    You don't include Irish as British unless you want to get punched in the face, and you don't include Scots-Irish as Irish if you don't want to get punched in the face, either

    I'm looking out for your health.



    That's not a fact.

    If you say that British-Americans (English, Scottish, Welsh, Scots-Irish, Anglo-Irish descendants) make up the majority among White Americans then that can be argued, I suppose. I haven't crunched the numbers. If you say White Americans are mostly of English descent, then you're wrong. As of 2000 12 million people claim to be simply American. Many I'm sure are mostly English but when looking at ethnic maps areas where people claim that they are American live in areas that are traditionally heavy on Scots-Irish ancestry (a group very under represented in the US census). Although many areas would have people of English or partial English ancestry also. But lets assume that all 12 million are of English descent. Lets add that to the total population that claim to be English, which is 32 million. Together they fall short to the 57 million people who claim German ancestry.

    Of course, many of these people are partially English and German (and other things), as stated people can pick more than one ancestry, and so they fall in both camps, and perhaps some are more German than English and the opposite but normally people don't include anything below the full heritage of a grandparent (25%).



    You just made that up, basically. You believe people, who are supposedly mostly English, are denying it by the millions. It's like you're trying to insult everyone's intelligence. There is a trend among people descended from colonials, especially in the South, to simply say American, as I said. Who knows how many of them are descended of English. Many of them, no doubt.

    This data from the 2000 U.S. census

    I quote relevant parts.





    http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/c2kbr-35.pdf
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea..._United_States

    In the 1980 census, 49 million Americans claimed to be of English ancestry, while in the 2000 census it dropped to only 24 million people. In the 1980 census, also 49 million Americans claimed to be of German ancestry, and in the 2000 census 42 million people claimed German ancestry.

    How can you explain that in 20 years millions of people who claimed English ancestry "disappeared" from the USA while the number of people claiming German ancestry remained similar in both censuses?

    This is because many Americans of English descent do not claim or care about this ancestry. A person of 17th century English ancestry will often claim to be "American" or claim a more "unusual" or recent ancestry, like German, Irish or Italian and will not mention the English ancestry (which many times is unknown because it is often too distant).

    A person whose grandfather was German and also have 17th century English ancestors will often claim only German ancestry and not mention English ancestry. That's why English ancestry is undercounted in the census.

    English ancestry is too "average" in the USA, and people prefer to claim more "exotic" ancestries, such as Italian and others

    The 1980 census is more accurate, and 49 million Americans claimed English ancestry. If we also include the people who did not claim English ancestry (but who do have English ancestry) it is obvious that English is the main ancestry in the USA (not mentioning that millions of African-Americans and Native Americans also have English admixture).

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-25 at 13:50 ----------

    It is important to note that breakdowns of the European American population into sub-components is a difficult and rather arbitrary exercise. Farley (1991) argues that "because of ethnic intermarriage, the numerous generations that separate respondents from their forbears and the apparent unimportance to many whites of European origin, responses appear quite inconsistent".[24]

    In particular, a large majority of European Americans have ancestry from a number of different countries and the response to a single 'ancestry' gives little indication of the backgrounds of Americans today. When only prompted for a single response, the examples given on the census forms and a pride in identifying the more distinctive parts of one's heritage are important factors; these will likely adversely affect the numbers reporting ancestries from the British Isles. Multiple response ancestry data often greatly increase the numbers reporting for the main ancestry groups, although Farley goes as far to conclude that "no simple question will distinguish those who identify strongly with a specific European group from those who report symbolic or imagined ethnicity." He highlights responses in the Current Population Survey (1973) where for the main 'old' ancestry groups (e.g., German, Irish, English, and French), over 40% change their reported ancestry over the six-month period between survey waves (page 422).

    An important example to note is that in 1980 23.75 million Americans claimed English ancestry and 25.85 claimed English ancestry together with one or more other. This represents 49.6 million people. The table below shows that in 1990 when only single and primary responses were allowed this fell to 32 million and in 2000 to 24 million.[25]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...n#Demographics

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    Quote Originally Posted by Debian View Post
    It doesn't apply to all americans but there are definitely more people descended of british isles combined and Ireland than from anywhere else. Most americans have some anglo/irish in them.
    I agree, but I was just trying to explain that not all Americans have Anglo/Irish ancestry, my family being the case. She just seemed to give off the impression that Americans distantly have English ancestry. l

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    I'd bet it's in Canada. Maybe the old-stock inhabitants of southern Ontario, maybe somewhere in the Maritimes where there's been no Acadian or Amerindian influence (PEI?). Maybe even white folks from BC? They do look very British, and I'm not aware of significant German, French, Scandinavian, Eastern European or Amerindian influence on these people, unlike inhabitants of other parts of Canada.

    Maine has had a lot of French Canadian genetic contribution, even if it might have been the only big non-British influence. I wouldn't bet on any population in the American South either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    I wouldn't bet on any population in the American South either.
    Who would you say is responsible for the ancestry of the American Southrons then? In not just my own family but the families of my neighbors down home British Isle's lineages dominate our pedigrees (though a quarter of my British Isle's ancestry is of a different sort than my old neighbors as it came from an English Canadian great grandma). On the FTDNA projects British Isle's surnames also predominate the haplogroup project lists for the Cumberland Gap Project and the Western North Carolina Project.

    There's even literature on the settlement of the South and the Appalachians (Albion's Seed) which corroborates strong British Isle's origins for these people. Hell my family even has old British type forenames still used to this day like Arwell, Clifford, Talford (a surname used as a forename), etc...
    Last edited by cadwallon; 2010-12-25 at 19:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cadwallon View Post
    Who would you say is responsible for the ancestry of the American Southrons then? In not just my own family but the families of my neighbors down home British Isle's lineages dominate our pedigrees (though a quarter of my British Isle's ancestry is of a different sort than my old neighbors as it came from an English Canadian great grandma). On the FTDNA projects British Isle's surnames also predominate the haplogroup project lists for the Cumberland Gap Project and the Western North Carolina Project.

    There's even literature on the settlement of the South and the Appalachians (Albion's Seed) which corroborates strong British Isle's origins for these people. Hell my family even has old British type forenames still used to this day like Arwell, Clifford, Talford (a surname used as a forename), etc...
    Don't get me wrong, I think the southern whites are overwhelmingly of British descent, I just don't think they qualify for the purest British-descended population in the Americans. There were significant German immigration, the French were present around Mississippi and Louisiana, some whites there also have black or Amerindian admixture.

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    I presume it's probably someplace in the Canadian Maritimes. No blacks, few Amerinds, not a lot of recent European migration, and only the odd Frenchman here and there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Anodyne View Post
    You don't include Irish as British unless you want to get punched in the face, and you don't include Scots-Irish as Irish if you don't want to get punched in the face, either

    I'm looking out for your health.

    We're all Pretannic, except for the arriviste gaels who call us cruithne because they can't pee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducheff View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea..._United_States

    In the 1980 census, 49 million Americans claimed to be of English ancestry, while in the 2000 census it dropped to only 24 million people. In the 1980 census, also 49 million Americans claimed to be of German ancestry, and in the 2000 census 42 million people claimed German ancestry.

    How can you explain that in 20 years millions of people who claimed English ancestry "disappeared" from the USA while the number of people claiming German ancestry remained similar in both censuses?

    This is because many Americans of English descent do not claim or care about this ancestry. A person of 17th century English ancestry will often claim to be "American" or claim a more "unusual" or recent ancestry, like German, Irish or Italian and will not mention the English ancestry (which many times is unknown because it is often too distant).

    A person whose grandfather was German and also have 17th century English ancestors will often claim only German ancestry and not mention English ancestry. That's why English ancestry is undercounted in the census.

    English ancestry is too "average" in the USA, and people prefer to claim more "exotic" ancestries, such as Italian and others

    The 1980 census is more accurate, and 49 million Americans claimed English ancestry. If we also include the people who did not claim English ancestry (but who do have English ancestry) it is obvious that English is the main ancestry in the USA (not mentioning that millions of African-Americans and Native Americans also have English admixture).

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-25 at 13:50 ----------

    It is important to note that breakdowns of the European American population into sub-components is a difficult and rather arbitrary exercise. Farley (1991) argues that "because of ethnic intermarriage, the numerous generations that separate respondents from their forbears and the apparent unimportance to many whites of European origin, responses appear quite inconsistent".[24]

    In particular, a large majority of European Americans have ancestry from a number of different countries and the response to a single 'ancestry' gives little indication of the backgrounds of Americans today. When only prompted for a single response, the examples given on the census forms and a pride in identifying the more distinctive parts of one's heritage are important factors; these will likely adversely affect the numbers reporting ancestries from the British Isles. Multiple response ancestry data often greatly increase the numbers reporting for the main ancestry groups, although Farley goes as far to conclude that "no simple question will distinguish those who identify strongly with a specific European group from those who report symbolic or imagined ethnicity." He highlights responses in the Current Population Survey (1973) where for the main 'old' ancestry groups (e.g., German, Irish, English, and French), over 40% change their reported ancestry over the six-month period between survey waves (page 422).

    An important example to note is that in 1980 23.75 million Americans claimed English ancestry and 25.85 claimed English ancestry together with one or more other. This represents 49.6 million people. The table below shows that in 1990 when only single and primary responses were allowed this fell to 32 million and in 2000 to 24 million.[25]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...n#Demographics
    This is a good point, not specifically to English but to ancestry in America as a whole....I am a perfect example. I have been tracing my family ancestry and what I am finding out is that the majority of all my ancestors came to America in the 1600 and 1700's. Now when doing a family tree, this many generations back is A WHOLE BUNCH OF BRANCHES! We're talking 16 different branches of great, great grandparents. Multiple that by 2 for each great grandparent going back ( first great grandparents=8, great great grandparents=16, great great great grandparents=32, great great great great grandparents=64 and etc) and by the time you hit the 1600's we're talking 7 great grandparents equaling 128 different branches!! So, not all of those 128 7th great grandparents were of the same nationality as back then Europeans were heading to America from all over Europe. It would be VERY rare to find an American whose ancestors came to America in the 1600 or 1700's to be of pure one nationality. Now those Americans whose grandparents came over to America have a better chance at being a "fullblood" of one nationality or the other. Back to your point, when you have the census in front of you and your like me what the hell do you put down when your ancestry comes from 8 different nationalities. I am trying to figure out, I probably won't until I have a DNA test, which nationality makes up the most percentage of me. Then you have the surname.....someone says I'm Irish or I'm English because that's what my surname is, true you obviously have that ancestry but what if an Englishman came over to America and married an Irish woman whose child married a Scottish woman whose child married a half german half dutch woman and on and on and on, so the last name might be English but or whatever but that could have been the last English or whatever ancestor, so surnames can be misleading big time! So, I would venture that most Americans who are like me, don't really know what to put down, they won't know unless they get DNA tested or they know that each of their 4 grandparents are "fullblood" this or "fullblood" that.

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