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Thread: A rational debate about Greek people3203 days old

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    Default A rational debate about Greek people

    Hello everyone...

    I am a bit sad today, because, well... you know, it is a long history, but I will try to make it short.

    As you all know, and no I am not claiming anything, just stating it, I have ties to Hellas/Greece has a country, by blood, via my mother... and in my opinion, the things that are produced culturally there, can be sometimes extremely good. I will give you an example: people say this whole theatrical mixture of Classical and Gothic music styles started with the Germans and well Sopor Aeternus, but actually no, there was one person in Greece which was recording music far longer than anything like Le' Rue Delashay, or Sopor Aeternus itself, and was Greek! Also it was very creepy and very intellectual at the same time, it still sounds creepy, and has a deep charm to it.

    Then there is other things, like in Heavy Metal there is Rotting Christ and Septic Flesh, which really make cultural styles of music based on Metal. There is a diverse type of Folk Music in Greece, very diverse, and all kinds of genres exists in there, we even have influenced a lot of Neofolk artists, through the music of Daemonia Nymphe.

    So here is the problem for me, and what is making me a bit sad about Greeks themselves...

    As you all know, I never spoke of my Greek maternal ancestry with any kind of shame until now, I always tried to look positive and show the good sides of the culture, however when it comes to the people themselves... I mean... Greek people from Greece, or the majority of the diaspora... they just are insane! Give you a perfect example:

    When that politician said that "I am a Greek Macedonian, and so are 3 million Greeks" or something, I felt orignally proud, but I feel completely ashamed now. Know why? Because I decided to see the facts for themselves, and this is what I see:

    The country which is supposed to be offended by this claim, is trying right now to do it's best, in order to secure and improve it's relationship with Greeks. It really is trying to do so... it's government is not perfect, just like the Greek one, but I felt ashamed and you know why? We where criticizing a nation which, we like it or not, has parts of historical Macedonia, and also is multicultural like us, however we deny it while they accept it. Also, because of us Greeks, the French have already neglected the idea of accepting the so-called Fyromians into bigger cultural development in the Balkans or even in Europe, and so did the Germans! And really think with me... if you know about recent Slav Macedonian history, you know that basically, most of their places faced recent war against Albanian nationalists, their culture is despised by several neighbours, and the biggest problem of all: THEY DO NOT TECHNICALLY HAVE MAJOR ELECTRICITY IN SMALLER CITIES (and I heard that from a Makedonski girl herself)!

    So it really makes me wonder... are we being democratic or are we being total Nazis to those people, and through us, ostracizing them from Europe and almost everywhere they live? Is not Baltak technically right to come forward and try to invent speeches which are supposed to be said by ancient Macedonians with clearly Greek names, and ultimately hate us more and more? After all hate feeds the indoctrination of fear right? And fear, is ladies and gentlemen, what lead to the chaotic situation in Germany itself, to World War 1, and even to wars before that time...

    So please try to be rational and give me some hope here... because the last real thing that was ever making me even slightly proud sometimes of being "mostly" (at least in people's eyes) a Greek, European person, was the fact that our culture is creative... but when I talk to the people, they are so arrogant, so foolish and so overtly proud, and it is not just Greeks from Greece, but Greeks in here (Australia), Greeks in Brazil, Greeks from the USA, and overall, even Cypriot Greeks! I mean it is insane... I cannot stop and really remember, any single particular Greek person who really was ever nice to me as well, which adds to the effect of constantly being skeptical of this supposedly "ancestral" nationality that i have!

    Please read it carefully, and respond with logic...
    - Erick
    Last edited by Erick; 2011-02-03 at 07:20.

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    Greece just want those guys to change the name of the country, that's all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Incanal View Post
    Greece just want those guys to change the name of the country, that's all.
    Do your research before posting ok? It is not just the country's name... and it is not just the Greeks who hate them, but also the Albanians, Bulgarians and so on.

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    Diaspora Greeks are, in most cases, more proud than the Greeks of Greece, as I know.

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    (Former Yugoslav) Republic Of Macedonia

    I don’t understand why you criticise the Greek point of view here, to me that’s highly illogical.
    The problem with the name is that the country is NOT Macedonia, it’s a simple as that.

    There's only a part of the country that is part of the ancient Macedonia (and that area wasn’t even part of Macedonia originally), and a part of Greece is ancient Macedonia with all the most important cities and all. The governments aren't the ones who have this conflicts (any more), it's some kind of nationalistic and deluded people of 'Macedonia' that want to believe that they're the same as the ancient Macedonians- some of them probably are, but basically they're Bulgarians in denial - according to Bulgarians. They actually want the Greek part of Macedonia to be part of FYROM, no less!

    I don't know about the last part, but it seems that they have a sort of agenda driven ideology much like afrocentrism - equally ridiculous. Most people who aren't directly involved, but who have at least read about the subject in the context of the ancient Macedonians, pretty much see through this ridiculous nationalistic movement because it has absolutely no merit at all.

    Just don't look at Wiki about this one, because fanatics on both sides constantly change the content.

    The real name should be: Former Yugoslav Republic Of Bulgaria and North Macedonia – or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick View Post
    Do your research before posting ok? It is not just the country's name... and it is not just the Greeks who hate them, but also the Albanians, Bulgarians and so on.
    Yes, well the Greeks do have their reasons to hate them. They seem to feel that Macedonian is a made up ethnic group, and that the naming of the former Yugoslavian region as Macedonia an excuse to attempt to partition areas of Greece.

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    As far as I'm concerned slavic macedonians give rights to the vlahs there,while bulgarians,serbs and greeks don't give any rights to that minority that called those lands home long before any slavs came to the region,ofc greeks say some bs about them being 'pure greeks' or some other SF while not supporting their native language at all.The only time there were schools in their language was before WW2 when romanians founded those schools in,what was then, the Ottoman Empire,after WW2 communists illegally came to power here and nobody else funded those schools. :3

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    (Former Yugoslav) Republic Of Macedonia

    I don’t understand why you criticise the Greek point of view here, to me that’s highly illogical.
    The problem with the name is that the country is NOT Macedonia, it’s a simple as that.

    There's only a part of the country that is part of the ancient Macedonia (and that area wasn’t even part of Macedonia originally), and a part of Greece is ancient Macedonia with all the most important cities and all. The governments aren't the ones who have this conflicts (any more), it's some kind of nationalistic and deluded people of 'Macedonia' that want to believe that they're the same as the ancient Macedonians- some of them probably are, but basically they're Bulgarians in denial - according to Bulgarians. They actually want the Greek part of Macedonia to be part of FYROM, no less!

    I don't know about the last part, but it seems that they have a sort of agenda driven ideology much like afrocentrism - equally ridiculous. Most people who aren't directly involved, but who have at least read about the subject in the context of the ancient Macedonians, pretty much see through this ridiculous nationalistic movement because it has absolutely no merit at all.

    Just don't look at Wiki about this one, because fanatics on both sides constantly change the content.

    The real name should be: Former Yugoslav Republic Of Bulgaria and North Macedonia – or something.

    Perfect explanation. There's nothing more to say.

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    Macedonia means, literally, "land of the macedons"

    Macedonii is the name of the people
    Macedonia is the land they inhabit.


    The Macedonii spoke greek and are totally unrelated to the slavs. It's simple. It's easy.



    Let's imagine how would it be in other contexts


    After World War III,
    1) A huge number of cantonese settle in California and establish the Republic of New Spain.

    2) France invades Luxembourg and installs the Republic of Rehinland as a puppet state.

    3) The Hungarian and German regions of Romania declare independence, and establish the Republic of Transylvania.


    No way!
    Macedonians are a planted population that did not exist as an ethnicity distinct from Bulgarians until how much? 50 years ago? 80 years? And now they want to claim the name of the people of Alexander as if it was their right? The capital of the true ancient Macedonia is in Greece and speaks Greek and has spoken Greek uninterruptedly for the last 25 centuries.


    And anyway, even if the Greeks were wrong (they are not) they would still have total support from the west. It wasn't just a foolish romantic ideal by Lord Byron. They are the cradle of our civilization. In this very room where I'm typing I have Homer, Plato, Sophocles, Xenofon, Euripides, not to mention the New Testament.
    Greek stuff is for the Greeks, not for the Slavs or anyone else. We've all seen what happened to Hagia Sophia, the vile destruction of her mosaics and the erection of those hideous towers all around. Greek stuff is for the Greeks. Don't let other people burn it.

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    Even though nobody would complain, I would like to change the name of Romania to Dacia--way cooler! So what if there are only about 25% of Romanian people who have majority Dacian blood (my estimation...probably it is even less), most of which are females!

    The original Macedonians did have their own language which was totally different from Greek. I think Alexander's Macedonians had more in common with ancient Dacians and Thracians than they did with Slavs or Greeks (they did call themselves grandchildren of goatherders).

    I think the Greeks have the edge in this debate, although neither can claim the Macedonians as they were not Greeks, Bulgarians or Slavs.
    Man will only be truly free when the last stone from the last church/temple/mosque falls on the last priest/rabbi/imam!

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