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Thread: Phenotype of the Proto-Indo-Europeans3103 days old

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    According to Khudaverdyan 2012, there is no phenotypical separation between Bronze Age populations in the Middle East, Caucasus and Europe. The notion that the phenotype of the original PIE populations is somehow uniquely related to Baltic populations has no support, since samples thought to be IE speakers don’t form a distinctive cluster that excludes farmers or even Egyptians. This is basically the same thing shown in the previous dendrogram I posted, in which the Kurgan sample clusters with circum-Mediterranean samples.

    Some quotes from Khudaverdyan 2012 (note: if you replace “Mediterranean”, in the quotes below, with “Basal Eurasian-related”, these phenotypical descriptions are compatible with aDNA):









    These phenotypical descriptions of homogenization are the same as what the aDNA reports have been saying (i.e. about the homogenization of West Eurasia from the Neolithic onwards). I don’t see why this is such a controversial thing to say. This has always been said about Bronze Age West Eurasian populations. No authority has ever said that the phenotypes of PIE have a special relationship to Baltic phenotypes. This is a complete fabrication.

    This is my rendition of Khudaverdyan 2012’s first dedrogram (figure 1). His analysis is based on craniofacial affinities of Bronze Age and Neolithic West Eurasian samples. Khudaverdyan’s dendrograms are a bit tedious to read, as the samples are listed by the numbers that ID them (as opposed to by the cultures they belong to). I’ve listed the samples by their cultures and assigned them a region (colour coded). I’ve also cleaned up the pixelation on the tree structure. The rest (i.e. the actual data) is identical to figure 1.

    Very interesting data, never seen it before. Would be nice if he had more dendrograms featuring modern groups, though.

    Where did Brace's 2005 Kurgan sample come from? Russia, right?

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  3. #212
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    Molecular Biologist NonFingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Very interesting data, never seen it before. Would be nice if he had more dendrograms featuring modern groups, though.

    Where did Brace's 2005 Kurgan sample come from? Russia, right?
    There is a sample from Anau (Turkmenistan) called Kurgan, and there is another sample said to be from "southern Russia". Brace's Kurgan sample is from Crimea. I don't know if this sample was taken from the larger southern Russian sample, or if it's another sample.

  4. #213
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    @Arch Hades

    A bridge between West and East: A craniofacial perspective on Anatolian biological diversity & Turkish population history and structure
    https://www.academia.edu/1652463/A_b..._and_structure

    A similar analysis with modern groups.

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