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Thread: Genetics of Modern Assyrians and its relation to Middle Eastern ethinc groups3518 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Do you call Assyrians who speak Turkish, "Turkish Christians"
    We do lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Apple View Post
    That's not true. Some Western and Hakkari Assyrians had migrated to Urmia in the 1800s, for example. There was contact between all Assyrian groups and the transfer of literature was further diffused as American, British, French, and Russian missionaries moved into the area. That doesn't even take into consideration the contact with Armenians throughout the Assyrian populace.

    The diocese of all the main churches were also moving between countries.
    From where had these western Assyrians migrated to Urmia? I've never read about this. Contact between church officials can't be regarded as major, that is to be expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Apple View Post
    They belonged to a Western church. Why would they speak Eastern? I guess only genetics can answer this question, since they basically only speak Arabic today. However, Syriac Catholics are also heavily arabized, but we know they were Westerners.
    So you're not sure?

    Speaking kthobonoyo in church is to be expected, but speaking Turoyo as their mother tongue is not to be expected considering their geographical location (where Sureth is dominating) and given the fact that the Syriacs of the Ninveh Plains belonged to the ACOE before they became Syriac-Orthodox. Even their village names such as Bartella and Bakhdida sounds very Sureth-like, and the names of their monasteries are also without doubt from Sureth/eastern in origin, for example "Mar Mattai".

    Besides, if the Syriacs of the Ninveh Plains spoke Turoyo, I'm very sure it would differ alot from the Turoyo in Tur Abdin and there would have been papers and books talking about the differences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Well I was bred in Lebanon, where this village separatism stuff didn't really apply (hence I lack the tribal village mentality many Assyrians today still seem to have difficulties shaking off, lol), however I'm pretty sure there's always been low-level gene flow between all Assyrian groups throughout our Christian history. And even if we have been totally separated between our churches the past 1,500 years, the genetic difference that would result in, would be roughly akin to for example, Swedes and Norwegians, or something like that (meaning, not a major genetic difference). I mean we still descend from the same ancestors the past 4,000 years (and very likely even further back), so it's questionable what kind of genetic differences Christian sectarianism has had on us. Geography I'm sure has played a bigger role, as is usually the case in most ethnic groups. Swedes for example, pull more toward Finland whereas Norwegians pull more toward Britain, and so on. Doesn't mean there's a huge genetic difference between Swedes and Norwegians.
    Yeah, I've never questioned us being the same ethnic group. As you said, we plot identically on PCA-plots, so fact is we are one and the same with perhaps minor differences - which of course exists in most ethnic groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IstenmeyenTuy View Post
    Zazas in Turkey mainly get insulted by called Kurd. They say they are different than kurds (kurmançi) and offended lol. and its like 90% of them are like that. Its kind of funny
    This is a minority making a lot of fuss. Zazas are indistuinguishable from normal Kurmancis and many do not even know how to speak Zazaki anymore, so what you have encountered is most likely an outspoken minority, as most simply do not care. In fact, many Kurdish nationalists are from Zaza strongholds. Just look at Varto, Lice and Dersim.

    You don't need to derail the thread any further with misinformation about Kurds and Zazas as your intent and lack of knowledge on the subject is inherently obvious. This goes for your comments on religiousity as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyw View Post
    This is a minority making a lot of fuss. Zazas are indistuinguishable from normal Kurmancis and many do not even know how to speak Zazaki anymore, so what you have encountered is most likely an outspoken minority, as most simply do not care. In fact, many Kurdish nationalists are from Zaza strongholds. Just look at Varto, Lice and Dersim.

    You don't need to derail the thread any further with misinformation about Kurds and Zazas as your intent and lack of knowledge on the subject is inherently obvious. This goes for your comments on religiousity as well.
    Lol. Another retard nationalist who wants the world as he wish to be. Call zazas kurd here and see how they react
    Its funny u know more in Swedestan

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    Quote Originally Posted by IstenmeyenTuy View Post
    Lol. Another retard nationalist who wants the world as he wish to be. Call zazas kurd here and see how they react
    Its funny u know more in Swedestan
    Zazas are Kurds, but not Kurmancîs. Many Zazas have been assimilated into the Kurmancî pool, partly because of being forced to move to other areas after having their villages burned and razed by the state in the early days of the Republic (Sheikh Said rebellion for example). As an example, many villages in Genc and Palu, areas that today are heavily pro-Turkey. I suppose cooperaters with the state stayed, meanwhile nationalist (rebellious) villages were razed.

    Furthermore, you still have a huge amount of Zazas present in not only the PKK but the HDP too. This outspoken majority that you as a Turk encounter is not representative of Zazas, as many Zazas are Kurdish nationalists. Some Zazas are rabid in their "we are not kurds" speech. Many Zazas do not care, many Zazas identify as Kurds. Is this really so hard to understand?

    Turks know as much as my pinky, literally brainwashed for closing up on 100 years. For living the country day in and day out, they know surprisingly little, and every single one barks in the same scripted monotone replies

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    Interesting thread. In the village/town my family comes from it's basically known that apart from 2-3 "clans"/surnames everyone else arrived to our town from other places. Namely from the Iranian/Iraqi border, Urmia plain and Nineveh plain. Some turoyo-speakers from lake Van aswell. So basically our town is very mixed, despite it being quite old. Yet older people are so tribal and always refer to newcomers as strangers.
    And from what I've heard from my late great-grandmother is that Nestorians and Catholics in our town mixed heavily and few people cared. Few people even refered to themselves just 100 years ago as "Chaldean" or "Athoraya", they just called themself "Suraye". Nowadays though people call themself "Chaldean"...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    we're not genetically Arab and that's really what Arabs are: a genetic group, and they're mainly concentrated in Saudi Arabia, and the overwhelming majority of so called "Arabs" are all pseudo-Arabs.
    Do you consider Yemenis, Omanis, Emiratis and Qataris who lack Bantu and other non-native ancestry as "genetic Arabs"? If not, then what are they?
    K=47 Results
    78.92% African
    • 59.05% West-African
    • 8.36% Central-African_HG
    • 3.32% East-African_HG
    • 2.22% Nilotic
    • 2.11% Omotic(?)
    • 1.78% Sahelian
    • 1.05% South-African_HG
    • 1.03% Kushitic(?)

    11.84% West Eurasian
    • 3.79% North-Sea_Germanic
    • 2.15% East-Euro
    • 1.39% Scando-Germanic
    • 1.26% Paleo-Balkan
    • 0.88% Central-Med
    • 0.54% NW-Indian(?)
    • 0.42% East-Iberian
    • 0.39% Baltic
    • 0.14% West-Med
    • 0.17% North-Iberian
    • 0.02% East-Med

    9.92% Native/Indigenous to Americas
    • 4.59% Meso-Amerind
    • 2.14% Amazonian
    • 2.01% Andean
    • 1.15% North-Amerind
    • 0.02% South-Indian(?)
    • 0.01% Tibetan(?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgbk87 View Post
    Do you consider Yemenis, Omanis, Emiratis and Qataris who lack Bantu and other non-native ancestry as "genetic Arabs"? If not, then what are they?
    If they lack native admixture, and Negroid admixture, and are genetically more or less Levantine, then they're proto-Arabs, who were the original ethnic Arabs (and I'm sure, very Assyrian-like). This only applies to Arabs from the Arabian peninsula though, and not "Arabs" from the Fertile Crescent and north Africa, who are all pseudo-Arabs (language shifted non-Arab Afro-Asiatics).

    I'm not sure what you mean by "non-native" though? The indigenous people of the Arabian peninsula were not Arabs, more like, a Soqotri-like tribe, possibly Afro-Asiatic (Cushitic?) speakers, and ethnic Arabs nowadays (who are no longer the proto-Arabs) are mixed with them in varying degrees. Point is, Arabs are a different genetic group, and not the same genetic group as Levantines, and sure as hell not the same genetic group as Assyrians. We do share some common ancestors with ethnic Arabs though, mainly J1-P58 proto-Semites (and possibly some other tribe(s), but that's many thousand years back in time and ethnic Arabs are no longer a Near Eastern genetic group, and this is especially true of Yemenis.

    Assyrians are genetically closer to Armenians, "Turks", Georgians, Iranians and hell even Greeks, than we are to ethnic Arabs, and that's not because Assyrians have bred out our original ancestry with non-Semites, but rather, because ethnic Arabs have lots of indigenous peninsula admixture, as well as considerable Negroid admixture and so on. In other words, ethnic Arabs nowadays are less Semitic and less Near Eastern than the original proto-Arabs were.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by "non-native" though?
    I mean populations who tend to have the "SW Asian"/"Arabian"/"Natufian" component maximize in them.

    The indigenous people of the Arabian peninsula were not Arabs, more like, a Soqotri-like tribe,
    Socotra is an island, and as far as I know, there have been no autosomal studies published on them. That's like saying the Onge or Sardinians are representative of South Asia or Europe prior to other migrations.

    possibly Afro-Asiatic (Cushitic?) speakers
    This is a real reach, especially since (AFAIK) it's impossible to find native Arabians who completely East African ancestry. Of course this is a linguistic issue and not a genetic one anyways, unless you are claiming that Cushitic languages are native to Arabia and not, Northeast Africa and that proto-Cushites were much like modern peninsular Arabians... Like I said, a reach.

    Assyrians are genetically closer to "Turks"
    Turkic speakers,
    Georgians
    Kartvelian speakers,
    Armenians, Iranians and hell even Greeks
    Indo-European speakers,

    than we are to ethnic Arabs, and that's not because Assyrians have bred out our original ancestry with non-Semites
    Which is represented by what genetically?
    K=47 Results
    78.92% African
    • 59.05% West-African
    • 8.36% Central-African_HG
    • 3.32% East-African_HG
    • 2.22% Nilotic
    • 2.11% Omotic(?)
    • 1.78% Sahelian
    • 1.05% South-African_HG
    • 1.03% Kushitic(?)

    11.84% West Eurasian
    • 3.79% North-Sea_Germanic
    • 2.15% East-Euro
    • 1.39% Scando-Germanic
    • 1.26% Paleo-Balkan
    • 0.88% Central-Med
    • 0.54% NW-Indian(?)
    • 0.42% East-Iberian
    • 0.39% Baltic
    • 0.14% West-Med
    • 0.17% North-Iberian
    • 0.02% East-Med

    9.92% Native/Indigenous to Americas
    • 4.59% Meso-Amerind
    • 2.14% Amazonian
    • 2.01% Andean
    • 1.15% North-Amerind
    • 0.02% South-Indian(?)
    • 0.01% Tibetan(?)

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