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View Poll Results: Germanics are?

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  • a genetic group

    22 18.97%
  • a linguistic group

    63 54.31%
  • a cultural group

    28 24.14%
  • a phenotypic group

    3 2.59%
  • a religious group

    0 0%
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Thread: Germanic: genetic or cultural/linguistic group?3591 days old

  1. #1
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    Plant of Life = Biological Magic 麻 EliasAlucard's Avatar
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    Default Germanic: genetic or cultural/linguistic group?

    I was looking after some references for Dutch population genetic studies, on Wikipedia, but couldn't find much. However, I noticed this when I did a ctrl+F search:
    “It should be stressed that this article uses the term 'Germanic' not in a genetic, but in an exclusively cultural and linguistic sense. Modern-day and contemporary (i.e Roman) sources reject the notion of the Germanic tribes in any way forming a genetically exclusive group.”
    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_people#cite_note-32
    Let's debate this seriously: what are Germanics first and foremost?

    1) a genetic group
    2) a linguistic group
    3) a cultural group
    4) a phenotypic group
    5) a religious group

    If you had to choose what you think most of all defines Germanics, which of these categories would you choose to define "Germanics", and why?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_culture
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_Europe
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2010-01-11 at 11:17.
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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    As far as I am concerned they can't be defined genetically (I assume you mean all the Germanic countries like Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Norway etc...)

    They, like a lot of Europeans belong to three or four major y-and Mt haplogroups and their autosomal DNA is not particularly different from Slavic countries.

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    Germanics are cultural group, not a racial group. As most Germanics descent from the Celtic populations that was Germanized by the incoming Germanic tribes from the East. Even the English are very Celtic in their genetics but not in their culture, as they have been Germanized.

    Germany itself was originaly Celtic and Baltic. The Prussians originaly spoke a Baltic tongue, but they were Germanized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    If you had to choose what you think most of all defines Germanics, which of these categories would you choose to define "Germanics", and why?
    They're all very close genetically, but that's not really saying much, since all North-Central Europeans are close, no matter what language group they speak. The only groups that deviate from this closeness are Finns, Balts and North Russians, although ironically, despite their inflated genetic distances from the core North-Central Euros, the first two often have very recent part-Germanic ancestry. Actually, judging from what I've been seeing at 23andMe, lots of Russians also have recent Germanic "cousins".

    So the real problem in creating a biogeographic cluster out of all Germanics is that they often share more in terms of genetics with their non-Germanic neighbors, than with their Germanic kinfolk a bit further away. Example, South Germans are something like 0.0005 Fst away from Slovaks but 0.0011 Fst from Swedes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephilim View Post
    Germanics are cultural group, not a racial group. As most Germanics descent from the Celtic populations that was Germanized by the incoming Germanic tribes from the East. Even the English are very Celtic in their genetics but not in their culture, as they have been Germanized.

    Germany itself was originaly Celtic and Baltic. The Prussians originaly spoke a Baltic tongue, but they were Germanized.
    The history of Eastern Prussia as a part of Germany was actually quite short lived. I don't think Baltic people played a very big role for the genetic origins of modern Germans.

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    I would want to say linguistical and cultural.

    Genetical, depends on what kind of group you compare with.

    Religiously it is quite interesting since most Germanic countries adopted protestantism or a similar form of "non-catholic".

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    This kind of polls are totally stupid and retarded.

    Peoples, folk groups, nations etc. are complex organisms and their identity cannot be observed through such oversimplifying filters based solely on genetics, or language, or culture etc.

    Because identities are made through all that plus a strong sense of kinship.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer View Post
    The history of Eastern Prussia as a part of Germany was actually quite short lived. I don't think Baltic people played a very big role for the genetic origins of modern Germans.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussia

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    I voted linguistic group. Germanic is quite a wide term and can't in my opinion be compared to Slavs and pan-Slavism for instance. You can't really say that Anglo-Saxons and Scandinavians, or Dutch and Germans, feels to have much in common with each other. Therefore, since there are different spheres, I wouldn't agree on it being a cultural group in proper.

    Scotland and Ireland usually cluster with Germanic-speaking peoples in genetical studies, so I wouldn't really agree on it being a genetic group either, as been said already.

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    Germanics are genetic group, but then we are mostly speaking about Skandinavians and Northsea (Frisians, Dutch fex) folks. Germanic itself is linguistic term but the origins of linguistic group is around South Sweden and Denmark. So those people are also genetically Germanic. Further away from that core, less genetically Germanic. Linguistics obviously is different matter.

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